: 2002 deville HEAD JOB and MORE --PLEASE HELP



e2bwild
01-26-09, 03:58 PM
Hi
I have recently purchased a 2002 Deville Sedan with 141000 miles. Engine was compressing the cooling system so I suspected stripped head bolts.
I pulled the engine out over the weekend and indeed on the right bank 3 bolts stripped the threads.
I ordered all the parts needed today and passed by the dealer to get a service history on the VIN #.
First he did not want to give me much details then he printed out few pages and said that all he can give me.
What blew my mind was the service
J0527- VALVE REPLACEMENT -ONE CYLINDER BOTH BANKS @71000 miles
and the other one was
J1307-PISTON, ROD AND/OR RINGS-ONE CYL-BOTH BANKS-REPLACE @ 117000 miles

My question is : Why did they have to go in and replace those parts ? Is it normal for 2002 models ?
IF they were retorquing the bolts means that the block is good but why they did not timesert since they pulled the heads.
Also, is the engine good ???, should I timesert it or look for another one ??

I did a compression check before pulling the heads and all the cylinder where within the 165 to 170 psi !!!!

That kind a explains why there was no oil or grease on the engine nor the tranny !!!!!.
I kind a figured that the engine been removed before by looking at broken clips…….

How can I get more service info through my VIN# ??

Thank you very much

Elia

Submariner409
01-26-09, 05:14 PM
Sounds like someone dropped a valve into a cylinder. Or at least bent one somehow and dinged a piston. First time for this one.

You should be able to see if Timeserts were used on that head job, but it also sounds as if probably not.........The only service info available through the GM VIS is warranty, recall, and service work done by a GM dealer. Nothing else will show up because other shops have no way to get to the system.

You should have contacted Jake (97EldoCoupe), a vendor on here with the avatar of nX8. He's the resident expert on head studs and Northstar top overhauls.

It's really impossible to say whether an engine is good, bad, or even repairable without hands-on measurements and observation. Get hold of Jake......he has several repaired engines for sale.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.........Where are you located ???

Ranger
01-26-09, 06:25 PM
Is it normal for 2002 models ?
No. In fact it is rare on any model.


why they did not timesert since they pulled the heads.
Dealers generally will only Timesert when threads are stripped. Not as a precaution. At least that is all GM will pay for on a warranty. Not sure what they would do if it was on your dime and at that mileage, it was on someones dime.


Also, is the engine good ???, should I timesert it or look for another one ??


Like Sub said, hard to say. I'd sure be curious as to if those were the same cylinders, what the complaint or problem was and why such a long span between.

e2bwild
01-26-09, 07:28 PM
Thanks for your reply
i am located in Rochester Hills, Mi
The car was in Florida all the time and a dealer got it at an auction there.

i did not see timeserts in the engine but will double check tomight. when i pulled 2 bolts with alum threads on them i kind thought it is not temeserted otherwise the insert would come out as well.

i read somewhere that GM had a problem with the N* for the 2001-2003 models. Something to do with pistons touching the valves. i am not sure if its a tolerance issue or bad design.




Sounds like someone dropped a valve into a cylinder. Or at least bent one somehow and dinged a piston. First time for this one.

You should be able to see if Timeserts were used on that head job, but it also sounds as if probably not.........The only service info available through the GM VIS is warranty, recall, and service work done by a GM dealer. Nothing else will show up because other shops have no way to get to the system.

You should have contacted Jake (97EldoCoupe), a vendor on here with the avatar of nX8. He's the resident expert on head studs and Northstar top overhauls.

It's really impossible to say whether an engine is good, bad, or even repairable without hands-on measurements and observation. Get hold of Jake......he has several repaired engines for sale.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.........Where are you located ???

e2bwild
01-26-09, 07:37 PM
Thank you for your reply Ranger

The car was under warranty when all the repairs where done. So i assume they did the bare minimum.

What i am thinking is that if they pulled the heads or at least one head and retorqued the bolts at 117000 miles and it failed at 141000 Mi means that they do not have porosity issues in the aluminum like the 97-99 models.
probably dealer replaced the internal parts hoping that the customer would come back in the near future for a timesert and big $$$$$$.

i have decided to send the heads to a shop and get them cleaned, checked and surfaced.
The engine gave good compression for all 8 cyl, so i believe the rings are good and valves are seated properly.
i guess its one of thoses things where only time will tell. !!!


i will look into more stuff tonight and post picutures if i find anything interesting.

thank you guys again.



No. In fact it is rare on any model.


Dealers generally will only Timesert when threads are stripped. Not as a precaution. At least that is all GM will pay for on a warranty. Not sure what they would do if it was on your dime and at that mileage, it was on someones dime.



Like Sub said, hard to say. I'd sure be curious as to if those were the same cylinders, what the complaint or problem was and why such a long span between.

Ranger
01-26-09, 07:49 PM
i read somewhere that GM had a problem with the N* for the 2001-2003 models. Something to do with pistons touching the valves. i am not sure if its a tolerance issue or bad design.


Never heard that.

97EldoCoupe
01-26-09, 10:00 PM
Actually the design on the 00-03 allowed more valve to piston clearance than the previous models. Or so it seems. The combustion chambers are deeper and bigger and the pistons are flat top. Like Ranger said, I never heard that either.

e2bwild
01-27-09, 12:30 AM
I think i read it on edmunds.
not a big deal, lots of people say all kinds of shit.
i beleive you guys.

i did not see any inserts in the engine. i will be timeserting in the next few days.

do you guys think i should replace the ISS or it does not go bad on this model year. ??

another weird thing i learned from the dealer:
they have also replced the whole exhaust system.
find it weird , any ideas ??

thanks




Actually the design on the 00-03 allowed more valve to piston clearance than the previous models. Or so it seems. The combustion chambers are deeper and bigger and the pistons are flat top. Like Ranger said, I never heard that either.

Ur7x
01-27-09, 12:50 AM
The exhuast system is not at all weird either on a 2002... GM had LOTS of bad Cats that year... Normal procedure is to cut and clamp a new cat in... This resulted in lots of the exhaust systems hanging funny and looking worse (trust me I know of this first hand) anyway I suspect that if the customer complained enough the dealer would have no choice but to replace the entire exhaust system.

e2bwild
01-27-09, 09:18 AM
Interesting

i am very dissappointed with GM waranty repair.
they did not put new seals on the exhaust joints.
instead they used the seal maker stuff. They are trying to save $$$ or they don;t believe in their seal.

The torque converter was replaced on the car as well and last night i found a sticker saying its a remanufacturesd unit !!!!!
The oil pan gasket was also replaced and what do i find ??? the old one with a lot of rtv on it.
or its a S____Y dealer in FL or GM does not care anymore.







The exhuast system is not at all weird either on a 2002... GM had LOTS of bad Cats that year... Normal procedure is to cut and clamp a new cat in... This resulted in lots of the exhaust systems hanging funny and looking worse (trust me I know of this first hand) anyway I suspect that if the customer complained enough the dealer would have no choice but to replace the entire exhaust system.

Submariner409
01-27-09, 09:51 AM
........just for grins and kicks take a look at the OEM spec drop-in cats at www.easterncatalytic.com (http://www.easterncatalytic.com) . Drill down to your Cadillac. The whole STS unit, pipe, flange, O2 bung, everything is <$200 through www.rockauto.com .

The OEM exhaust systems, from the cat flange back, are welded 1-piece. The factory manual is not specific on parts (muffler) replacement, but it mentions "replaced as a unit." The cat, as above, is a cut and bolt affair. (the pic is STS, but close......) When I did my CORSA the entire OEM system, cut off just forward of the O2 sensor bung, was hung by 4 rubber cookies and dropped out without touching anything.