: More problems after a HG job- or are they?



97EldoCoupe
01-23-09, 05:06 PM
This is the PM I just received from a customer who's HG's I just did. This car also has the first new design engine mount:


Hey Jake. I just got in from a thorough test drive of the Red 98 STS that you did HG's on that my Mom and Dad picked up last Saturday.

We are experiencing engine codes PO151 which is a BAnk1 Sensor 1 low voltage and a PO 1153 which is the Bank 1 fuel control which is lean.
These 2 code WERE present before the HG job. I will deal with these simple codes.

The problem seems to be that traction control, ABS, and the Active Handling are now not working, and as a result the transmission now starts in 2nd gear from a standing start. I beleive that all these may be related.

These issues were NOT present before the HG job.


I am also noticing poor heater performance at low rpms, like at idle. If I squeeze the small 1/2" rubber line that runs from teh waterpump to the coolant recovery pressure tank, the pump doenst seem to be pushing as much water as it did before.

Have you had any experience with any of teh above issues after you have done a HG job?

We are happy with your work, and running a small alignment/collision garage ourselves, will be happy to work with you to solve these issues.
You have done good work, theres just some issues to iron out. I'm not comfortable letting my Mom drive teh car without ABS as its quite a handful without it, same goes for traction control.
The 2nd gear standing starts, take away from the STS's performance.

Dad was quite impressed with your engine mount, and your ingenuity. It takes a lot to impress my Dad, so hats off to you Jake.
Under WOT accelaeration, the new mount is transparent, but if you suddenly let off the throttle you can feel a SLIGHT tap as the engine moves back forward when not under engine torque. Nothing that I would worry about myself, but I can see other Caddy owners POSSIBLY having different comments MAYBE.

To me if its stronger and better than the OEM piece, then I'm all for it.

So overall Jake, thankyou very much. I'm hoping that the ABS/Traction control/2nd gear start issues can be resolved fairly easily?

I just wanted to give you a chance to respond to my inquiries, before I make a report publicly on the Caddy forums.

Thanks Jake


I'm unsure of what to do about this: If I can get to the bottom of the traction control problems I will gladly do that for this customer at no charge. According to the code, C1242, I believe it may be just a bad ground.

But I haven't done anything with the water pump or the heating system. Does anyone have an idea about what to do about the poor heater performance at idle? All I can think of is a clogged heater core or something impeding the flow of coolant. Possibly a thorough flush may help.

I'm doing my best to keep the HG customers happy - does anyone have any ideas what to do about the poor heater performance?

zonie77
01-23-09, 07:56 PM
Did they use a HG repair in a can? If so it's probably blocking cooling passages. My niece did it and they wound up using nylon stocking material to filter the hoses and catch the junk. They would have to clean the screen regularly at first, then ocassionally. I think it was OK after a couple of weeks.


My brother's ABS went out after the HG's. We wound up replacing the ABS unit. I don't think it's related unless the wiring got damaged.

Ranger
01-23-09, 08:48 PM
I would guess either air in the system (not likely if the purge line is clear) or a clogged heater core. '98's used the cooling system supplement (sealant tabs) and that stuff can clog the core. I'm no longer a fan of that stuff.

ted tcb
01-23-09, 09:44 PM
Good luck on this one ... when you work on an 11yr old car, other failures will surface as you dissasemble and reinstall.
My mechanic had to detach my abs sensor on my 98 Maxima when he changed a wheel hub ... the abs sensor fell apart when moved.
I understood ... parts have a lifespan, and its never cut and dry.

Has the cooling system been flushed, or is the coolant reservoir clogged from the supplement grunge?
Is the car throwing codes related to abs/traction controls?

I don't get this line ... "before I make a report publicly on the Caddy forums"
The customer seems to be quite understanding of the work involved in this process, but closes things off
with a threat? Hopefully, he just means he'll come here looking for assistance.

jeffrsmith
01-24-09, 09:11 AM
Good luck on this one ... when you work on an 11yr old car, other failures will surface as you dissasemble and reinstall.

Has the cooling system been flushed, or is the coolant reservoir clogged from the supplement grunge?
Is the car throwing codes related to abs/traction controls?

I don't get this line ... "before I make a report publicly on the Caddy forums"
The customer seems to be quite understanding of the work involved in this process, but closes things off
with a threat? Hopefully, he just means he'll come here looking for assistance.

Ted asks several valid questions, hopefully the owner will see this post and answer these. I hope that Ted is right with his closing statement.

97EldoCoupe
01-24-09, 10:05 AM
I`m not entirely sure which car it was in but my dad found a big can of `HG repair in a can` in the trunk of one of the recent cars. I`ll ask him. I take snapshots of all the engines so I`ll get my digital cam in and check the cylinder coolant passages- I`ve seen so many cars that had a bad orange film build-up, probably from the taps and various `stop leaks`.

I guess a good flush might help and then reversing the heater lines to allow the coolant to flow the other direction may be a good start. The C1242 code is one that my `98 liked to keep flashing- turned out it was just a bad motor ground.

I don`t think I damaged any wires but like Zonie said, little things can surface when doing a big job like that on an older car. haven`t heard back from the owner yet, hopefully he`ll bring the car back to me next week and I`ll find out what the problem is with the ABS and traction control systems. As for damaged wires usually the only wires I`ve seen damaged are the ones that run behind the exhaust manifold to the crank pos sensors and such. I`ve had to repair a few of them because they get so brittle they just fall apart when you disconnect them. The oil pressure sensor pigtails in particular.

I`ve never been a fan of any repair in a can, especially cooling system fixes. I`ll ask the owner when I hear back from him if anything like that was ever used.

Hogg
01-25-09, 12:26 PM
I was up late last night stewing about this thread. Since I see no way of protecting my anonymity(sp), since Jake posted the ENTIRE PM that included my comments about his custom motor mount, while being able to publicly discuss his custom motor mounts on in these forums. Not that its a huge deal, but whatever.

The car Jake is talking about is mine. The comments posted in PRIVATE MESSAGE form are mine.
The red STS in Jakes engine mount rev video is also mine.

The comments "I just wanted to give you a chance to respond to my inquiries, before I make a report publicly on the Caddy forums" were NOT meant to be a threat, sound threatening or to imply a threat.

I wanted Jake to get back to me, before I publicly discussed the NVH characteristics of his custom motor mounts, and discussed publicly, just how good of a job he did, and how his HG stud system impressed my 66 year old mechanic Father who has been working fulltime in the auto field since he was 15 years old.

I simply wanted Jake to give me some feedback, using his expertise, as to whether or not he has experienced any of the issues I listed, and how I can fix some of them.

Heater core is probably stopped up with GM coolant tabs, yes we exhausted this route before we were about to do this job ourselves.
We priced bolts/studs, inserts, tooling, gaskets and couldnt see the point in doing this myself, esp. when Jake had over 40 of these under his belt at the time.

The O2 sensor code, was there before we dropped the car off, no doubt from sitting for so long after after consuming coolant. The lean code could be caused by this O2 sensor, or simply from dirty injector which will be easily cleaned or replaced by me.

The only concern I have is with the ABS/TC/Stabiltrak/2nd gear trans starts.
All I know is that when I took the keys out of the ignition at Jakes shop, there was only the O2 sensor code and the lean bank code.
Then the 1st time the key is put back into the ignition upon me receieving the car back, the TCS/ABS/Stabilitrak/2nd gear start issues were aparent.

Am I supposed to not mention these things?

I have sent Jake several PM's, BEFORE I even knew this thread existed. Last night in the thread where Jake announced he isnt doing HG's anymore, someone made a comment about some guy PM'ing a threat. I though, well I wanna find out who this threatening prick is.
And it turns out they were talking about ME.

For the record ALL of my PM's with JAke were finished BEFORE I even saw this very thread.
I am debating as to whether I should post the entire PM thread or not. But I wont.
I am bring the car down to JAkes next week, to see if its a simple ground issue. Which i hope it is.

Jake has pointed out in PM's that even though there is an issue, that I am NOT the enemy. He considers me a good customer, I am disappointed that others have acted the way they did.

Jake does good work for a good price. He does the work for 3-4 times less than the local GM dealerships will do it for. I appreaciate his service.

I think that Jake is a cool guy, and does good work, and I recommend that anyone who needs a system to do HG's use Jakes setup.
I can see the studs when I peer down the oil fill tube, looks Pro.


peace
Hog

dkozloski
01-25-09, 01:55 PM
We have met the enemy and he is us.

97EldoCoupe
01-26-09, 07:59 PM
All I wanted to do was see what the responses would be from others on the heater conditions you're facing. I posted the message because the engine mount comment- I wanted others to hear what you had to say about it, and that's great! I might have to modify it slightly. We'll see.

You're not the enemy. Not by a long shot. As I stated before I read your post Paul; under the "no more HG jobs" thread, "I want to hear about the issues after a HG job". I just want people to be reasonable and you and your dad were, WITHOUT A DOUBT. I know the difference between a good customer and a bad one- you gave me time to get the car done and didn't hound me at all. You understood that I was booked up for a while and that it's a rather involved process to replace the HGs.

I will recommend your aligment shop to anyone who needs an alignment. I will be more than happy to look at the TC/ABS system and hopefully get that straightened out for you. The heater core is not something I'll have time for, for a while. I would recommend replacing it. That stop leak is murder. It kills cooling systems.

There was someone with a O2 sensor issue before you, only instead of you agreeing that it was there before, this guy had me replace it free of charge and then told me afterward, it was a problem that existed before I did the HGs. You might have misunderstood that I meant you and I didn't.

That last sentence of your PM was probably a bit misleading to some but you clarified what you meant.

Take care and enjoy the STS- I will hopefully see you this weekend to get the ABS/TC working again.

-Jake

Hogg
01-27-09, 02:23 PM
thanks for the kind words Jake.
Sorry about the last line of my PM, I'm a pick and peck typist and my thoughts dont always get onto the creen possibly. I honestly wasnt trying to be threatening. I feel bad about that it came across the way it did. I need to proofread what I write.

I will try back flushing the heater core, if that doesnt fix it, maybe a replacement is in order. It still blows warm air at idle, then once revs get over 1500rpm, its hotter. Not a huge issue, its not your responibility anyhow.
We did use the GM vegetable matter coolant tabs. Thats whats probably causing the issue.

The guy that had you swap out an O2 sensor, then telling you the issue was there before your work was wrong. he should have paid you for the sensor and the install.

Just give me a dingle when you have a chance. The car is now drivable, it wasnt before yoru work, so I am happy. I just would like you to point out the possible issue area, and if its a quick fix, fine. If not, I'll have to go explore other avenues myself. I just dont know where to look is all.

Again, I'm totally happy with your great work. After actually handling your stud kits in my hands, theres no way that any insert is stronger IMO. That coarse therad going into the aluminum looks very beefy. Much better than the stock bolt threads.

I will post some of my comments on the engine mount in the engine mount thread.

Our shop has been closed for over 1/2 a year now, since Dad lost his leg. Ive just been doing some side jobs for friends to get by. Dad is in his last week of his artificial leg fitting, then he and Mom are off for a much needed vacation out of the snow and ice. Not the environment to learn how to walk again in.
Hopefully the shop will be open by late spring.

Thanks again Jake, I appreciate everything you have done and are doing. You have really helped out in a time when we really needed it.
Sincerley
PAul

e2bwild
01-27-09, 02:27 PM
Hey 97EldoCoupe
i had the same problem with the traction control light on my 97 deville.
it turned out to be a comon problem and all it is the ground that connects to the ABS unit.
The ABS unit sits on 3 rubber dampers probably to isolate vibration from the road. The only ground it gets is visible from the front of the driver tire.
i sanded the nut and bolt area then mounted it and the problem was gone.

hope this helps

e2bwild
01-27-09, 02:36 PM
Hey 97EldoCoupe
i tried sending you a PM and it did not work.

it would be great if you can tell me what you think about my engine.
details are in thread
2002 deville HEAD JOB and MORE --PLEASE HELP

your opinion is apreciated

thank again

SupRNatural
01-27-09, 03:28 PM
I believe he has retired from the :bighead::violin: :banghead: HEAD Game. Correct me if I'm wrong Jake.



Hey 97EldoCoupe
i tried sending you a PM and it did not work.

it would be great if you can tell me what you think about my engine.
details are in thread
2002 deville HEAD JOB and MORE --PLEASE HELP

your opinion is apreciated

thank again

97EldoCoupe
01-27-09, 03:37 PM
I've borderline decided to keep going. If I do hopefully the streak of unappreciative arrogant people is over. Looks like I'm going to be spending $350 for a seal kit to install into a tranny that I already installed for $250. I will never make a mistake like this again. I'll be losing $100, a good transmission, and about 3 days total labor from installing it and then doing it all over again. Then hopefully he doesn't take me to court afterwards.

I'm all ears e2bwild. I sent you a PM with my email address.

97EldoCoupe
01-27-09, 03:39 PM
I don't blame the guy for wanting to have the leak fixed at all - If he's reasonable he'll pay for the seals and I'll do the labor free of charge.

97EldoCoupe
03-29-09, 06:24 AM
As I said before I will be posting the good and the bad about my HG jobs in these forums- people can judge for themselves if they want to have me work on their Caddies. All too often you hear only about the success, never about failures. Everyone makes mistakes including myself. I always double check everything engine-related. Here goes a new one:

Currently I just started tearing down a car I already fixed from NJ- about 2-3 months after I did the HGs, the engine developed a slight rattle- the customer called me a week after it started rattling and I told him to stop driving and get it checked out. Unfortunately NJ isn't just around the corner, or I'd be happy to have a look. It didn't get checked out and he continued to drive. Another week later I get a call telling me it just "up and died" on the freeway. I told him to bring it back down here and I'll tear it down again. This is what I said: If it's anything that I missed or that I caused, I will fix the car again at no charge. If it's not my fault, I'll replace the engine if required for a flat charge of $1000, the replacement engine having new HG's/studs.

This engine is locked up according to the owner- the starter will not rotate the engine. I'll be trying this with a wrench on the crank bolt in the next little while to see what went wrong. Sounds to me like a timing chain snapped, or it threw a rod. He should have listened to me and gotten it checked out right away upon hearing a noise. You can't keep driving if you hear unusual engine sounds without getting it diagnosed. I really don't want to take responsibility if the owner doesn't take my advice. But it's back here and I'll see what I can do for the guy. What could have been a 2 hour repair job (depending on what caused the rattle) is now a full engine-out, tear-down and rebuild/replace job.

I do feel for the guy though, spending the cash on a HG job and coming all the way from NJ. I want people to have good luck with their cars after I've worked on them.

I'll see what went wrong soon and I'll post in this thread.

97EldoCoupe
03-29-09, 06:30 AM
I haven't heard it run so I'm assuming it was a mechanical rattle, not detonation due to a faulty knock sensor- AJ/Ewill3rd would likely know if a failing knock sensor and low octane fuel could cause detonation so bad that it would cause engine damage- it depends on the timing advance and how much advance the PCM allows. Just a thought- I'll pull the codes soon and see what's going on.

STSj90
03-29-09, 06:37 AM
Sounds to me like he should have taken your advice! It probly would have been fine...But now its probly f*****

I doubt it was anything you did. Just somthing that would have happend anyway even if it didnt have the HG job done. People seem to want to blame shops for there problems after a its been worked on at one, When the same problem would have happend even if the shop didnt touch the car in the first place.

Hope the best for you. Maybe it'll turn out to be a breeze for you to get done.

97EldoCoupe
03-29-09, 09:51 AM
The engine rotates all the way around and runs on about 4 cylinders. Sputters and backfires. Smokes like crazy from somewhere. Time to pull it apart and check it out. I think one chain has snapped/slipped over/etc.

No codes other than P0603, which is why there are no codes....

STSj90 thanks - it could have been a mistake of mine- I won't deny that it can be. When I make a mistake I'll admit it. But you're absolutely right. What could have been a small task may be a very large one now. Let's see what went wrong. I hope the valves have not slapped the pistons if the chain snapped.

I'll keep everyone updated throughout the day.

97EldoCoupe
03-29-09, 06:56 PM
Another one of those days.

Low compression on all right bank cylinders. Right exhaust cam locating pin was missing. Not sheared off. Missing. Camshaft sprocket bolt loosened up because of this. I ALWAYS tripple check all the camshaft bolts and torque them down THREE times- you can't make a mistake on this because it will result in a WORN or SHEARED pin & sprocket. I know that pin was in there when I set the timing.

Had the owner immediately had the knock/rattle pinpointed, this could have all been avoided, instead of driving until the bolt worked its way loose.

Installed a new pin in the end of the cam and torqued it down with the timing re-set. 150-175 psi on all cylinders except #5 - 25 PSI still. It's sucking air from the exaust port. The exhaust valves have hit the piston and bent.

I called the owner up (he's in town now) and ran this by him. He's pissed that I want to install a different engine that I have ready. I want to charge him $1000 CDN for the engine swap including the engine and now he's pinning all the blame on me.

Whether it was my fault or not, he should have listened to me and had it checked out. We were both concerned about the chain being loose and he kept on driving.

I think I'm being fair.

I could install a different head and put it back together but the owner is in a rush because he's waiting here in Ontario. The best bet and quickest way is to just install a good engine.

On the bright side of things, the HGs are still sealing as they should.

97EldoCoupe
03-29-09, 08:05 PM
The owner didn't want to spend the $1000. We settled on changing the right bank cylinder head (just in case the valve guides are worn from bent valve stems) for $300. That drive pin is still in the engine somewhere.

Enough of my ranting- I love what I do, it's just been another one of those days.....

Ranger
03-29-09, 08:22 PM
If anyone ever drops the pan, they'll find it down there Jake. I once dropped a distributor lock down nut down the hole that the distributor sits in on a 4100. Fished for it for 2 hours till I finally heard it clank in the pan. That's where it stayed.

dkozloski
03-29-09, 08:55 PM
About six months after I overhauled an aircraft engine for a customer he called me with all kinds of stories about
how the engine was all screwed up and it was all my fault. I had him remove the engine and ship it to me for inspection. In the bottom of the oil pan I found all kinds of magneto drive coupling parts for magnetos for a different engine that rotates the opposite direction. It didn't take the engine owner long to fire that guy that made that swap and he got a good stiff bill from me as well.

Another guy called me and said that an engine I'd overhauled for him had blown up and it was all my fault. Again I had the engine shipped to me. This time a mechanic had tried to change a cylinder on the engine for some reason and in the process missed the upper end of the connecting rod when he inserted the wrist pin. When the mechanic started the engine it clattered so loud you could hear it a mile away but he still continued to run it with the rod flailing around until the engine was destroyed. This little episode cost the owner about $30,000.

Submariner409
03-29-09, 09:11 PM
None of this last several posts is news. Every engine or transmission mechanic has customer nightmares - most are either the customer gets his new engine/trans back and wants to "make it better" with someone's magic parts or he decides to outguess the manufacturer and rebuilder and pour in all sorts of snake oil and magic potions.

More mechanical damage is done to automobile drivetrains by an untrained individual trying to "gain some power" than all the normal in-service failures put together. If most owners, unless they know exactly what they are doing, would leave the thing alone, forums like this would dry up and die.

Yes, there are mistakes: the missed torque, a cracked ring, a loose bolt. Most are a mere inconvenience. A very few come back to haunt........

AJxtcman
03-29-09, 09:19 PM
Jake the Original Fiber-Glass Resin was made from Ethylene Glycol. (I think)
When Ethynene Glycol burns/dries in an exaust system it can form a plastic layer on the O2 sensors that cause it to read poorly/slow.

Next you need to get a Vac-N-Fill or make one. It is the best way to fill a cooling system. This is an award winning tool. "Motor Magazine Top 20 Tool Winner, GE-47716 Coolant Evacuation and Refill tool "

Take a look at this
https://www.gmtraining.com/tmswebtree/techlink/images/issues/feb06/tlfeb06e.html#story1

Next Add some more parts to the jobs. Intake gaskets for one. They go bad and cause lean conditions. No reason to put your name on the line for another $100

AJxtcman
03-29-09, 09:20 PM
Hog is a good guy.

Hey Hog do you know what the " patch for the dongle security" is?

97EldoCoupe
03-30-09, 02:17 AM
AJ where is this fiberglass resin you're speaking of? From the intake plenum?

I guess I'm just paranoid with trying to keep a good rep. 65+ HG jobs going strong. It's impossible to please everyone, and really, some of the engines that I've seen, I'm surprised they've lasted as long as they have. Ranger, remember the milkshake pictures I posted? More coolant than oil? Those engines are still running- and I'm amazed.

The owner's coming back tomorrow afternoon for the car, hopefully I've got it done by then. My 20 hour shift is over.

Goodnight all.

AJxtcman
03-30-09, 06:57 AM
AJ where is this fiberglass resin you're speaking of? From the intake plenum?

I guess I'm just paranoid with trying to keep a good rep. 65+ HG jobs going strong. It's impossible to please everyone, and really, some of the engines that I've seen, I'm surprised they've lasted as long as they have. Ranger, remember the milkshake pictures I posted? More coolant than oil? Those engines are still running- and I'm amazed.

The owner's coming back tomorrow afternoon for the car, hopefully I've got it done by then. My 20 hour shift is over.

Goodnight all.

When Ethylene Glycol aka Anti Freeze burns/dries it coats the exhaust with a plastic residue. This covers the O2 sensors with a film and the O2 sensors don't work correctly.

In the old days I back when all the cars were black. Wait not that far back. Well when they were all or at least 90% RWD if the water pump went out and coolant spayed everything under the hood. At Least 1 in 10 would need a alternator. The coolant would dry on the stator and the brushes couldn't contact it.
The water pump would take out the alternator? :yup:

I have seen a lot of spark plugs go bad from burning coolant. On a scope they would show high resistance (like an open wire) and not a short (like fuel fouled)

Hogg
03-30-09, 01:37 PM
Hog is a good guy.

Hey Hog do you know what the " patch for the dongle security" is?
Depends on what dongle you are referring to? If you are talking about PCm tuning, please PM me.

peace
Hog

97EldoCoupe
03-30-09, 09:16 PM
Yes AJ you're right about the failing plugs and the O2 sensors. No doubt.

97EldoCoupe
04-01-09, 03:52 PM
The owner from NJ left with the car yesterday about noon, his N* purring like a kitten again. I charged him $300 to pull the engine, grind the #5 exhaust valves, test compression, re-install the camshaft drive pin, re-set the cam timing, and re-install again.

I simply told him that a 2 hour job turned into an engine removal + valve job because he let the knock go, until the engine died. He tried to pay me $370 but I gave him back the $70 and told him $300 was all he owed.

I stand behind my work 100% but the customer has to listen to sound advice. There are basics that every motorist needs to know that should be on the driving test. Most of us know these things: (i.e. no oil pressure, don't drive. Knock in engine, don't run until it's fixed).

On a different note, buying this property with the huge shop is a tell-tale sign that I plan to stay in business. I want to send a thank you to all of my customers both past and future for your business. There's a lot to do this coming year, I'll be doing some renovations in the shop and building a new office, hiring a secretary, coming out with new products for the N* cars and ABOVE ALL those dang mounts need to be finished! The most exciting thing is the Eaton S/C Northstar and that's coming after the mount.

Submariner409
04-01-09, 06:47 PM
Jake, You must love what you do: You're whoring out labor compensation.

AJxtcman
04-02-09, 09:42 PM
Hey I never got back to you on a misfire or ticking noise you had once after a head gasket job.

Coolant on the Exhaust Valve Stem. The valve hangs open on these engines. I have seen it about 10 time now over the last 5 years.

97EldoCoupe
04-03-09, 03:43 PM
Hey AJ Thanks, I would have never guessed that one- a bit too much friction from the coolant causing the valve to hang open would explain it.

I'm just glad that straightened itself out.

Sub- I'm doing my very best to keep a good rep and keep customers happy. The job is done and his car works great again- that's what counts. I want my repairs and services to advertise itself. Northstars frustrate me at times, but usually I enjoy it! :D

spin
04-04-09, 01:16 PM
Jake, just a quick question on that pin. Does it need to be pressed back into the camshaft. I just had this happen to mine on the left intake. I found the pin in the head just below the chain. Just seeing what I need to do to put it back in.

97EldoCoupe
04-04-09, 04:25 PM
Yes it needs to be pressed in- remove the cam and stand the cam on end- give it a few swift taps with a small deadblow- but be careful. Don't do this with the camshaft in the head.

Putting a bit of threadlocker behind this pin would be a good idea. By tapping, it should expand a bit inside the cam to hold it in place.

stutz427
04-05-09, 03:42 PM
I had a similar ABS code that drove me nuts trying to find it. I thought it was the ABS ground on the abs motor. Well to make a long story short, when changing the plugs I went to remove the rear coil bank (on a 99 SLS). I found the ground wire unattached. Just for kicks look at the coil pack on the rear valve cover. There should be a ground wire from the coil pack to the body. If this in not hooked up you will get ABS codes with the symptoms you are seeing. THe ground wire is a little difficult to hook up and my guess is I am not the first one that has found that a previous mechanic missed hooking it back up. Good luck