: so when will track brakes be out?



09_CTS_V
01-22-09, 08:14 AM
anyone have part numbers yet?

jvp
01-22-09, 08:31 AM
My understanding from certain sources is that Brembo doesn't have the rotors ready for prime time yet. So, you have to keep waiting for the time being.

jas

ExtraV
01-22-09, 09:39 AM
^^
Is that why the current V's shipping don't have slotted rotors like website and brochures show?

CadV
01-22-09, 09:56 AM
From what I was told the rotors are 2-piece and the front calipers are different. They don't touch the back. I was also told the new rotors are not slotted.

atdeneve
01-22-09, 10:05 AM
Aside from being painted red, the calipers are the same. The only difference in the track brake package are the two-piece rotors.

wait4me
01-22-09, 10:06 AM
Correct, the new rotors are not slotted. They are supposed to just be a 2 piece alum to steel rotor, and a red powdercoated caliper that is identical to the one on it now. The rear is the same as what was on the V1 for calipers...

GM-4-LIFE
01-22-09, 10:26 AM
Does the track package calipers have the V logo on them like the silver stockers?

It would only be worth it to swap out the front rotors, especially since the caliper differences appears to be just paint color.

The rear rotors won't match the fronts either. Too bad GM isn't planning on a two piece design for the front and rear.

Maybe Wilwood or Baer will release a two piece front and rear replacement at a much lower cost over the Brembos.

SG

jvp
01-22-09, 10:45 AM
^^
Is that why the current V's shipping don't have slotted rotors like website and brochures show?

My friend was rather surprised when I showed him delivered pictures of Vs with the non-slotted rotors. He did say they had a bunch of rotors ready for the car, and apparently at the last minute, the "Gods" must have decided to go with flat-faced rotors stock.

But, the stock rotors being flat-faced vs. slotted has nothing at all to do with the track rotors being ready. Different issues at play.

jas

Short-Throw
01-22-09, 05:08 PM
He did say they had a bunch of rotors ready for the car, and apparently at the last minute, the "Gods" must have decided to go with flat-faced rotors stock.


jas

It wasn't a last minute decision.

GM tested the slotted and plain rotors extensively. The data revealed that the plain rotors performed better than the slotted, period. The marketing gurus wanted a surface treatment because it 'looked cool', but engineering data prevailed and we have plain rotors. Reason behind surface treatments in the past were for out-gassing of the pad binder material. New pad technology does not have this issue. Downsides of surface treatments include, crack propagation points from cross drilling, brake roughness with either treatment, and pad wear (worse with slotted).


Mike

wait4me
01-22-09, 05:09 PM
Nice post Mike, that is exactly correct.

SNAKEPLISSKEN
01-22-09, 08:22 PM
I hope they have the Recaro's and the racing brakes available by the time the Coupe comes out.

dvandentop
01-22-09, 09:51 PM
good info to know

yeah i would just swap rotors not calipers if they are the same thing

Hogg
01-23-09, 09:42 AM
good info to know

yeah i would just swap rotors not calipers if they are the same thing

As long as they truly are the same.

peace
Hog

AZstar
01-23-09, 10:29 AM
It's my understanding that the track brake package also comes with the rear differential cooler.

jvp
01-23-09, 11:21 AM
It's my understanding that the track brake package also comes with the rear differential cooler.

Nope. But the diff cooler is something you'll need to add to the car if you decide to hit the track.

jas

wait4me
01-23-09, 11:33 AM
Does anyone have a real part number for the rear dif cooler? I have been trying to order a few.

LV_V
01-23-09, 07:55 PM
I still think its complete bull$h!t that the base 09V doesn't come with the slotted rotors that were advertised...

09_CTS_V
01-24-09, 08:33 AM
I still think its complete bull!t that the base 09V doesn't come with the slotted rotors that were advertised...

can tell you from experience, the slots and xdrilled are not necessary on a street car and severely undermines the rotors life.
Id be happy with cad coating :)

Greg*
01-24-09, 11:25 AM
anyone have part numbers yet?

Part# on the front rotors will be 20795300. Pricing & availability is still unknown. According to the catalog the rear rotors will remain unchanged.

Short-Throw
01-24-09, 12:48 PM
I still think its complete bull!t that the base 09V doesn't come with the slotted rotors that were advertised...

If the delivered production car came out with 600HP would you also be upset because 556HP was the original spec?

There was conclusive evidence that the slotted rotors did not perform as well as the plain rotors. We the consumer ended up with the better performance part. On a car like this I would be very disappointed if 'Bling' was a deciding vote over performance.



Mike

GM-4-LIFE
01-24-09, 02:37 PM
If the delivered production car came out with 600HP would you also be upset because 556HP was the original spec?

There was conclusive evidence that the slotted rotors did not perform as well as the plain rotors. We the consumer ended up with the better performance part. On a car like this I would be very disappointed if 'Bling' was a deciding vote over performance.



Mike

I couldn't agree with your more!

SG

ExtraV
01-24-09, 02:39 PM
They could have found a better slotted or drilled Brembo version to be sufficient. I still think it was a cost cutting issue. I don't think it is any more "bling" than a chrome chicken wire front grill.

Short-Throw
01-24-09, 03:03 PM
I still think it was a cost cutting issue..

You are certainly entitled to think that, but it simply isn't the case.

Many owners loved the look of the cross-drilled rotors on the Z06 until they realized they were Swiss cheese graters on the brake pads. Marketing or engineering, guess who won that vote?

It was the engineers goal to give us the best performance possible on the V2.


While GM was working with Brembo on development of the V's brakes, they obviously inquired about Carbon-Ceramic brake system. Brembo's response after running calculations was that 21" wheels would be needed just to clear the size rotor required with a CC brake system. Or, to put it simply, brake rotors would have to increase in diameter by 2" over our current iron rotors to accommodate the mass and performance of the V. Mass being the biggest issue here. Trust me, GM wanted the benefit of reduced unsprung rotating inertia, but the trade-offs made it undesirable.


(Thanks to my GM friends for providing the insight.)


Mike

09_CTS_V
01-24-09, 08:00 PM
i dont know about you guys, but I am more than pleased with the V2's brakes and I have had brembos on several cars including their GT system, this stops NOW!

LV_V
01-25-09, 04:44 PM
If the delivered production car came out with 600HP would you also be upset because 556HP was the original spec?

There was conclusive evidence that the slotted rotors did not perform as well as the plain rotors. We the consumer ended up with the better performance part. On a car like this I would be very disappointed if 'Bling' was a deciding vote over performance.



Mike


You are certainly entitled to think that, but it simply isn't the case.

Many owners loved the look of the cross-drilled rotors on the Z06 until they realized they were Swiss cheese graters on the brake pads. Marketing or engineering, guess who won that vote?

It was the engineers goal to give us the best performance possible on the V2.


While GM was working with Brembo on development of the V's brakes, they obviously inquired about Carbon-Ceramic brake system. Brembo's response after running calculations was that 21" wheels would be needed just to clear the size rotor required with a CC brake system. Or, to put it simply, brake rotors would have to increase in diameter by 2" over our current iron rotors to accommodate the mass and performance of the V. Mass being the biggest issue here. Trust me, GM wanted the benefit of reduced unsprung rotating inertia, but the trade-offs made it undesirable.


(Thanks to my GM friends for providing the insight.)


Mike

You're totally off-base comparing 600 to 556 HP and slotted rotors to non-slotted rotors :bigroll:

I was not aware of any official announcement from GM that the non-slotted rotors out-performed the original slotted rotors. If you know of something I don't, please point me to a link instead of just being a dick. Thanks.

Short-Throw
01-25-09, 05:42 PM
You're totally off-base comparing 600 to 556 HP and slotted rotors to non-slotted rotors :bigroll:

I was not aware of any official announcement from GM that the non-slotted rotors out-performed the original slotted rotors. If you know of something I don't, please point me to a link instead of just being a dick. Thanks.


This isn't a secret. It was dicussed publicly to the press when the car was first introduced, but they of course didn't feel the need to write about it.

I'm happy to share more with you if you can be civil. :thumbsup:

gotapex
01-25-09, 07:00 PM
While GM was working with Brembo on development of the V's brakes, they obviously inquired about Carbon-Ceramic brake system. Brembo's response after running calculations was that 21" wheels would be needed just to clear the size rotor required with a CC brake system. Or, to put it simply, brake rotors would have to increase in diameter by 2" over our current iron rotors to accommodate the mass and performance of the V. Mass being the biggest issue here. Trust me, GM wanted the benefit of reduced unsprung rotating inertia, but the trade-offs made it undesirable.

Mike

With all respect, that sounds like more of a marketing response than a technical one. Carbon Ceramic brakes are extremely effective, especially in their current generation. Even F1 vehicles make due with tiny (11" diameter, 1" thick maximum) CF brakes.

Brembo makes the Carbon-Ceramic brakes for the 3850lb Ferrari California:

Carbon ceramic front rotors, 390 mm x 34 mm, 6-piston aluminium calipers
Carbon ceramic rear rotors, 360 mm x 32 mm, 4-piston aluminium calipers

Fits just fine in its 19" wheels, and from all reports, brakes well. I doubt a 10% heavier, lower performance car would require brake rotors a full 2" bigger to simply equal the performance of iron, especially when it's possible to go almost an inch bigger rotors (390mm on Ferrari California vs 370mm CTS-V) and bigger caliper/pad area, and still fit within the 19" wheel.

I think the number of people willing to pay a ~10k premium for carbon brakes on a $60-70k car is too small to justify research & production. As pricing comes down, we'll probably see it trickle into this market.

Greg*
01-28-09, 08:24 AM
Does anyone have a real part number for the rear dif cooler?

Part# for the kit is 20792934. Pricing & availability is still unknown. The RPO
code for the differential cooler is KNR.

ExtraV
01-30-09, 10:51 PM
Looks like the slotted rotors are showing up again....:bouncy:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3354/3238505189_83d1e44ffd_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3517/3239343506_73a3f2fb65_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3436/3239338528_6937484a7d_b.jpg

darjae
01-30-09, 11:09 PM
Looks like the slotted rotors are showing up again....:bouncy:

I noticed the same thing at the Houston Auto Show (where you took these pics). I just assumed that it was an early production model used just for the Car shows.

Razorecko
01-30-09, 11:13 PM
I gotta say that the wheel/brakes look alot meaner w/ the slotted rotors.

readyact
01-30-09, 11:26 PM
Yesterday I received a flyer in the mail from Cadillac offering a 15% discount on accessories for the 2009 CTS-V and the Performance Brakes are on the flyer. However, the rotors are not slotted, but cross-drilled and the calipers are the same as stock (gray w/V logo). Did anyone else get the accessories flyer from Cadillac? Next week I will stop by the dealer and see what the deal is with the performance package.

MYV8ABMR
01-31-09, 12:08 AM
I was suprised when I first saw the v2 rotors were plain. It seems like s/d rotors are the new standard for high performance cars. But if tests showed the blanks performed better than more power to cadillac.

I upgraded to s/d irotors on my gs430. My only complaint was how noisey they were with the windows down but then again better pads wouldve probably helped. Im sure we will see similar aftermarket parts available for the V's shortly.

09_CTS_V
01-31-09, 10:03 AM
I noticed the same thing at the Houston Auto Show (where you took these pics). I just assumed that it was an early production model used just for the Car shows.

agreed.....

chris1268
01-31-09, 12:03 PM
Yesterday I received a flyer in the mail from Cadillac offering a 15% discount on accessories for the 2009 CTS-V and the Performance Brakes are on the flyer. However, the rotors are not slotted, but cross-drilled and the calipers are the same as stock (gray w/V logo). Did anyone else get the accessories flyer from Cadillac? Next week I will stop by the dealer and see what the deal is with the performance package.

I got the same flyer yesterday - I like the V car cover(side note)