: Nitrous kit is ready... Any guess on hp gains before blowing up?



wait4me
01-19-09, 11:05 PM
Well the kit is just about ready.. Ill try a 75 shot just to test the waters.. Then go up 25 hp increments till she pops.. Gotta 454 LSX block to dump in her.....

Luna.
01-19-09, 11:54 PM
Well the kit is just about ready.. Ill try a 75 shot just to test the waters.. Then go up 25 hp increments till she pops.. Gotta 454 LSX block to dump in her.....


:histeric:

Are you awesome...

You're going to torch a perfectly good LSA motor just to see how much it can take.

Just...AWESOME... :worship:

CadV
01-20-09, 12:52 AM
Yeah baby! Mount a 24/7 camera in it so we can see the explosion hehe.

Nutz
01-20-09, 10:20 AM
I predict the #8 cylinder will let go at 660. Have the camera near the rear of the car so we can hear the lame sound of it coming down. :alright:

I've been down this road before with my GN.

Razorecko
01-20-09, 10:35 AM
sweeeet. Now we'll all know how much the lsa can take :worship:

The Tony Show
01-20-09, 10:43 AM
Depends on what type of plugs he runs and if he retunes the timing and fuel for nitrous. I suspect with colder plugs and proper tuning he can get at least 600 at the wheels before it takes a dump.

CIWS
01-20-09, 10:52 AM
sweeeet. Now we'll all know how much the lsa can take :worship:

We'll at least see what His LSA could take.

wait4me
01-20-09, 11:09 AM
Ill be tuning it and running tr 6 plugs. then after it hits 200 hp shot, i will switch to even colder plugs and quite possibly a stand alone fuel system.. Also fuel pressure and volume will be modified via the calibration. It is lower than the zr1 is in stock form.. The car drops down to a 38psi at idle and cruising, then up higher at wot via the fuel pump controller.

The Tony Show
01-20-09, 11:17 AM
I'm immensely curious to see the results of this test.

:food-snacking:

dvandentop
01-20-09, 04:02 PM
why blow it up on purpose? i am all for more power etc... but why take it til she blows? that is just a huge waste of $$

haterinc
01-20-09, 04:24 PM
ehhh you have to break a few eggs to bake a cake lol

brent eb02
01-20-09, 11:54 PM
go for it

i did the same thing to my single turbo gto....12 lbs of boost and pop..!

then forged the bottom end... no big deal...the car ran 10.50s @ 130 mph

The Tony Show
01-21-09, 10:46 AM
I'll give you $2k cash for the engine before you blow it up- take that money and use it toward your 454 instead of killing a perfectly good engine.

Razorecko
01-21-09, 12:11 PM
i'm all for it. There no real good way to find out how much the motor can generally take unless you constantly tear it down for inspection.

The Tony Show
01-21-09, 12:40 PM
Screw that- I'll drop that LSA in my '97 MarkVIII, stall it and have an 11 second drag car. :D

Razorecko
01-21-09, 12:54 PM
I wonder if the lsa would fit in a 2nd gen rx-7....:lildevil:

The Tony Show
01-21-09, 12:57 PM
^ Exactly.

wait4me
01-21-09, 01:05 PM
I know the real value of the engine im killing. It is the only way to show everyone what the motor is really capable of handling and what part will be the first to fail...

Im guessing it will die at 730 rwhp doing a 2nd gear pull and then 3rd gear pull all the way to redline..

Razorecko
01-21-09, 01:11 PM
I know the real value of the engine im killing. It is the only way to show everyone what the motor is really capable of handling and what part will be the first to fail...

Im guessing it will die at 730 rwhp doing a 2nd gear pull and then 3rd gear pull all the way to redline..

Not only that when you tear it down you'll be able to see the weak links. :thumbsup: - my guesstimate is 770 rwhp

LITTLEELVISDAN
01-21-09, 05:13 PM
only difference between what u a re blowing up and a ZR1 motor is the forged bits and blower size.

Blow it up... replace guts with forged bits....... Order a bigger blower.... YOU HAVE a ZR1 motor.... repeat... see if you can get 1000hp out of the ZR1 motor...

The Tony Show
01-21-09, 05:21 PM
When the piston shatters it'll scar the piss out of the cylinder wall, plus maybe punch a rod through the block if the cylinder pieces jam at the top of travel- it probably won't be salvageable.

LITTLEELVISDAN
01-21-09, 05:33 PM
When the piston shatters it'll scar the piss out of the cylinder wall, plus maybe punch a rod through the block if the cylinder pieces jam at the top of travel- it probably won't be salvageable.Well,,, Aren't you a negative Nancy today..:)

Nutz
01-21-09, 05:34 PM
only difference between what u a re blowing up and a ZR1 motor is the forged bits and blower size.

Blow it up... replace guts with forged bits....... Order a bigger blower.... YOU HAVE a ZR1 motor.... repeat... see if you can get 1000hp out of the ZR1 motor...

^Ya that.
BLOW IT UP! Soon. Lean on that motor. And show me some carnage!

O.K. I'm done...

NormV
01-21-09, 05:46 PM
Automatic or manual tranmission?

Norm

Nutz
01-21-09, 06:06 PM
Screw that- I'll drop that LSA in my '97 MarkVIII, stall it and have an 11 second drag car. :D

Throw it in the STS classifieds. Somebody might want it... :histeric:

wait4me
01-21-09, 06:59 PM
It will be the manual car. Im expecting the block/blower to be worthless when it is all said and done. If a piston lets go at 6000rpms + 600hp, heads, blower, block, crank will all be worthless. The supercharger will be ruined as well. Piston powder will be all over the motor and even in the airbox if it is a bad one..

MauiV
01-21-09, 07:10 PM
I feel a little sick to my stomach.

dvandentop
01-21-09, 07:12 PM
why not just take the motor out and put it in something else if you want your 454 in the v so bad

wait4me
01-21-09, 07:27 PM
If i dont do it, then there will be all of the rumors still of how weak the motors are. I just want to test and see what it takes. I dont want to make anyone pissed, or bothered by it. I just have a complete spare 700 hp engine that i just so happen to want in the v, and the old one needs to come out.. It comes out easier in chunks... jk

dvandentop
01-21-09, 07:29 PM
gm has done the testing to find out how weak they are,

Why piss 15-20k motor down the drain just as an excuse to be able to put your 454 motor in, i am sure i am not the only one who is bothered by this. even though it is your car and $$ i am still bothered by it

wait4me
01-21-09, 07:32 PM
gm has done the testing to find out how weak they are,



Is this documented anywhere? IF so, i wont do it, but if i dont find proof of thier tests, then it needs to be done by someone. It will save alot of blown motors and fears of modification after i do it. The whole scene benefits from this, not just my own fun.. Evil as it may be...

dvandentop
01-21-09, 07:36 PM
is there a way to make some kind of profit off of the blowing up off your stock motor? if not why be the 1st to do it on the block? let someone else find out the hard way IMHO

Nutz
01-21-09, 08:18 PM
:devil:
u6ALySsPXt0

haterinc
01-21-09, 08:20 PM
cranking a bunch of NOS through it till it pops prrrrrobably is kind of a waste. as much as i'm all for it if you want to do it (and believe me i'm nobody but a guy sitting here reading this figuring out what all i want to do) i'd say build it up right. see what limits the motor can be pushed with bolt on upgrades and when that is tuned to the hilt, open it up more and push the limits until it pops. only then will the average enthusiast know the limits of what they want to push. i'm guessing the average guy in the V cockpit would shit their pants if their motor popped, but would love to know what kind of reliability they can get out of it as a daily driver.

if you still want to blow it up with NOS though, lets just create a big V community pool with entry bets and whoever gets it right splits the pot with you haha....

Ketzer
01-21-09, 08:49 PM
Why not test it with higher boost instead of "burned-piston-in-a-bottle?

I think most of us are waayy more interested in how much boost it will take. Naws is not even something any of us would consider, why waste testing an adder that will give a result we already know?


Jeff-

StangCrazy
01-21-09, 09:00 PM
I agree with Ketzer....95% of the people here are just going to change out the blower pulley to create more boost/power. Why not keep upping the boost to say 25psi and then go other power adders.

wait4me
01-21-09, 09:38 PM
Cant do boost, as the stock tvs wont handle much more without having to switch to a 2300. So now i would kill a better blower... Dont want to do that.

Also adding boost adds more strain to the drivetrain so the numbers would be fudged some. And i would think Snout failure would happen or it would be something crank related that would fail.

Nitrous, i would say would be the best way to add horsepower without putting on any more load from the known strong points on the motor.

wait4me
01-21-09, 09:39 PM
And 25 psi i just dont see happening. Even with the 2300 .. I can barely get 16psi out of one on my other caddy with the upgraded blower.

StangCrazy
01-21-09, 10:30 PM
25psi was just a random number pulled from the air

Kmajecki
01-21-09, 10:50 PM
Do the Nitrous!!! Then take off the Nitrous kit and take advantage of that warranty :D

(then send me the good LSA)

z71burb
01-21-09, 11:05 PM
isnt the intercooler a big restriction as far as upping the boost goes? i dont think it can provide enough cooling for more boost. maybe im wrong - but i know that the zr1 has both a different intercooler along with the bigger blower.

wait4me
01-21-09, 11:20 PM
The intercooler that comes on the zr1 isnt as good as the one in the LSA engine.



I already have a solution in the works including an ice box for the intercooler system on the Vs, ill post info on that in a few weeks.

LITTLEELVISDAN
01-21-09, 11:44 PM
I don't get it. Its his car and motor. What the hell do you care if he decides to blow it? You want to buy and preserve one for some reason then do it. But stop wondering why he is going to do it. Its not like you're talking him out of jumping off a building. ITS A FREEKIN MOTOR... Not the holy grail...

Get a grip... Anyone else pony'ing up a car or cash to change the pulley out till it blows???

NOPE

NUF SAID

gotapex
01-22-09, 01:12 AM
The intercooler that comes on the zr1 isnt as good as the one in the LSA engine.



I already have a solution in the works including an ice box for the intercooler system on the Vs, ill post info on that in a few weeks.

That's very interesting, I always thought the LS9 chargecooler was better than the LSA one. Looking forward to what you have in store!

verbs
01-22-09, 01:15 AM
I know the real value of the engine im killing. It is the only way to show everyone what the motor is really capable of handling and what part will be the first to fail...


Unless you're using a direct port nitrous kit, I think your test is flawed. If you're using a MAF kit, dry kit or standard wet kit, the back two cylinders are going to get leaned out at some point in time, and there's a good chance the back pistons will go first and I don't think you'll get as accurate of a test as if you were running NA or with boost.

proexpert
01-22-09, 06:19 AM
Must be nice to be wealthy.

Ketzer
01-22-09, 09:02 AM
I think it's more about product development than wealth.

I predict that the engine doesn't "explode" and become useless. I also predict around the 200hp mark that a dyno run will end in the engine being "hurt" and W4M choosing to end testing, as always, a cylinder will have leaned out and destroyed a piston. Nitrous is veeery fickle, but fickle in a pattern.


Jeff-

Razorecko
01-22-09, 09:28 AM
I believe the lsa's intercooler is better since its one solid peice where the zr1's is split into 2x smaller intercoolers. The larger single one does a better job cooling.

haterinc
01-22-09, 10:22 AM
i haven't looked into the plumbing for the stock heat exchanger. i've talked to Fastlane and they have an aftermarket heat exchanger ready to go for $800. the question is would it benefit from aluminum piping? i've never supercharged a car but i know the FMIC kit i ran on my stealth TT drastically improved the bigger turbos i had on it due to the size and air flow. it was putting down over 580hp on an awd dyno with stock internals. completely different animal, but trying to relate the conceptual applications

Luna.
01-22-09, 06:59 PM
^Ya that.
BLOW IT UP! Soon. Lean on that motor. And show me some carnage!

O.K. I'm done...

AMEN...

Torch that sucker!

Luna.
01-22-09, 07:02 PM
gm has done the testing to find out how weak they are,

Why piss 15-20k motor down the drain just as an excuse to be able to put your 454 motor in, i am sure i am not the only one who is bothered by this. even though it is your car and $$ i am still bothered by it

:hmm:

I say this respectfully, so don't take this the wrong way, but it's really none of your business.

If he wants to torch his motor, he can, you shouldn't try and make him feel bad.


Why not test it with higher boost instead of "burned-piston-in-a-bottle?


I think most of us are waayy more interested in how much boost it will take. Naws is not even something any of us would consider, why waste testing an adder that will give a result we already know?

Jeff-

I am considering NOS. Granted, the key word there is consider, but I certainly am. I desire to get 550 to the tires and NOS *might* be the easiest way to do it.

CIWS
01-22-09, 07:23 PM
However you decide to do it, please video tape :D

poor-sha
01-22-09, 08:12 PM
START THE GAME ALREADY!

(any AOE fans out there?)

CTSV_510
01-22-09, 08:13 PM
Well, props to you Jesse for keeping this forum interesting!

Hogg
01-23-09, 10:18 AM
Unless you're using a direct port nitrous kit, I think your test is flawed. If you're using a MAF kit, dry kit or standard wet kit, the back two cylinders are going to get leaned out at some point in time, and there's a good chance the back pistons will go first and I don't think you'll get as accurate of a test as if you were running NA or with boost.

Just because you are injecting fuel evenly at each cylidner with boost, doenst mean that the intake will distribute air evenly between all the cylcinders. My poinrt is that the cylidners 7/8 leanout can occur with forced induction, just as easily as with nitrous.

I'm not sure if the LSA has a cylinder 7/8 leanout issue like the GEN 3 and some other GEN 4 engines do.



So far as doing this test with boost or N2O, is inconsequential, as its all about cylinder pressure. No matter how you raise the combustion chamber pressure, either with boost or N2O, if the timng and a/f ratios are correct, the breaking point of the engine will be found just the same.

However if you get a lean spike, with either power adder, burned pistons and/or hammered bearings, broken rods can be the result.

Be sure to get this recorded Jesse.

peace
Hog

Jayrcr3
01-23-09, 02:22 PM
I feel a little sick to my stomach.


Me too!

concorso
01-23-09, 02:25 PM
Must be nice to be wealthy.
Come on, I know plenty of people who'd love to be driving a brand new Cadillac...and a fully loaded CTS at that! Stop your moaning!

wait4me
01-23-09, 09:17 PM
I dont think the 7 and 8 cyl would be lean in this configuration.. The way the blower distributes its pressure seems alot more even that if you , say, use a procharger and forcing boost in from the front of the motor. This setup pushes air into the center point of the engine, so i would guess 2 thru 6 would be the leaner cly..

V-Love
01-25-09, 12:58 AM
:devil:
u6ALySsPXt0

Yeah! DO IT! My guess is 650 to the wheels and shes gone.

Nutz
01-26-09, 07:37 PM
WELLLLLL??? It's been a week.



























Kaboom or what!?

wait4me
01-26-09, 08:06 PM
Weather is holding me back. The car is not safe with the 200 shot on it, It just shoots to redline and the car shoots sideways..

Nutz
01-26-09, 08:14 PM
Weather is holding me back. The car is not safe with the 200 shot on it, It just shoots to redline and the car shoots sideways..

I just hate when that happens.:thumbsup:
I guess while the weather's bad you can work on that Casino cash. :)

wait4me
01-26-09, 10:11 PM
Umm yeah.. The casino cash! LOL It lasted a week, then that stupid 5card stud ate me for dinner! I think i played 250,000 dollars of what you gave me. ;) Too bad i lost it all! Where is the getting buried in the dirt smiley when you need one.....

Nutz
01-26-09, 10:35 PM
:bricks:


Thanks for the update.

CTS-Voodoo
01-27-09, 10:05 AM
Weather is holding me back. The car is not safe with the 200 shot on it, It just shoots to redline and the car shoots sideways..


Well that would be because youre at 750ish horsepower... lol

Hurry up and toss the 454 in, are you putting a blower on it? I always wanted to see that combo.

Fire and Ice
01-27-09, 06:06 PM
Lean on that motor. And show me some carnage!

O.K. I'm done...

Shhh. Don't say 'lean' around that motor! :tisk:

pveomett
01-28-09, 09:19 AM
http://i308.photobucket.com/albums/kk350/CTS-Veo/DSC00434.jpg
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z89/cattpowerr/DeadMeatCar.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m198/hollywoodsfire/Carexppromo1.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd111/MWAzhar/Car_bomb_explosion_Lebanon.jpg

Well Jesse emailed me pics of the experiment. Everything seemed to go as planned...

wait4me
01-28-09, 09:48 AM
:histeric: I forgot that with nitrous your intake bolts come loose and the floor bolts come loose then you explode! :rice:

The Tony Show
01-28-09, 11:17 AM
Yeah, be careful not to blow out the rivets on the diamond plate floorboard.

"Too soon, Junior...."

:lol:

CIWS
01-29-09, 12:05 AM
If the nitrous doesn't get it the drone will. :bomb:

MauiV
02-02-09, 10:34 AM
And then??????????????????????????

wait4me
02-02-09, 11:15 AM
Im running 200 shot pills in it, and have 2 bottles thru it so far and no pop. Ill try to film it today if the roads dry up.. I cant add anymore than this amount unfortunatly without safely going thru the fuel system and upgrading.. :( Im maxed out on fuel pump. I had to turn it up wayyy beyond what the Zr1 is set to. Also, i might have time this week to dump it on the dyno for a pull just to see what she is actually putting down. If someone wants to double check my pill sizes for error, im using 2 nx nozzle system with 53nitrous and 35fuel. On my viper it took that to make exactly 200 hp, so im hopeing that is close. The fuel i did go down to 11.10 a/f at wot on purpose just in case..

V-Love
02-02-09, 11:44 AM
[quote=wait4me;1754606]Im running 200 shot pills in it, and have 2 bottles thru it so far and no pop. Ill try to film it today if the roads dry up.. quote]

I can't wait to see it but I want to hear it more. Whats it sound like when you hit the button. Only reference I have is the "fast and the ricerous" movies.

wait4me
02-02-09, 11:59 AM
For reference on sound, amagine you are at 50% throttle that noise. Then you hit the nitrous it would sound like you just gave it 100% throttle.
Besides tire skreeeeching and a raised motor noise that is all there is different, Well that and a smirking grin and giggle as i hit it...

wait4me
02-02-09, 12:04 PM
Also for reference on parts used for the kit.

NX dual nozzle universal viper kit 75-300 kit.
Trick performance "P" gauge. Which is awsome and has all this contained in just the small gauge itself.
Progressive controller (time or rpm based)
• RPM window switch
• Wide-Open-Throttle detection when used with factory TPS or WOT switch.
• Supports Fly-by-Wire TPS rising or falling
• 5 Point variable Progressive ramping (time or rpm based)
• Shift Light
• Rich l Lean Cutoff (when used with a wideband)
• Air/Fuel inputs Digital or Analog
• Multiple wideband capabilities
• Heater controller
• First gear lockout / delay
• 8 different Main Viewing screens.
• Programmable Power UP screen and Arm screen
• Multiple pressure choices
• Pressure display ( Boost, Nitrous, Oil or Fuel)

http://www.trickperformanceproducts.com/images/gauge/pgauge_number4.jpg

And a FJO wideband with serial output into the trick gauge and im using the NTK 5 wire wide band sensor...

LITTLEELVISDAN
02-05-09, 08:33 AM
Any updates?

FreddyG
02-05-09, 03:44 PM
Why not test it with higher boost instead of "burned-piston-in-a-bottle?

I think most of us are waayy more interested in how much boost it will take. Naws is not even something any of us would consider, why waste testing an adder that will give a result we already know?


Jeff-

It's MUCH easier to change nitrous pills then pulleys............and quicker too!

He's just looking for a number One last thing, to boost this motor over 700 rwhp, you'd have to really pulley it down and then you worry about belts slipping and overheated intake air temps and the list goes on! You don't worry about that with spray!

Nitrous is the easiest/quickest way to pop something if like in this case where Jesse is just doing a science experiment!

Why not just try this on a load dyno and not risk hurting yourself by losing control and driving in a ditch? I'm not saying anything about your driving skills, but things happen and if you can control some of it, why not do that? Just an idea! :cheers:

Oh, by the way Jesse, could you Please video the whole thing...............PLEASE?

verbs
02-05-09, 05:33 PM
I bet this thing will make something stupid like 850rwtq on the dyno. :faint: