: Fuel Pump removal



planocolt
01-19-09, 09:15 AM
All the 1999 STS manual says I need a collar ring removal tool to get the fuel sending assembly out of the tank.

Does anyone have a work around?

chubbyranger
01-19-09, 09:34 AM
You should probably post this in the Seville/Eldo forum. The job can be done without the tool from what I have seen posted but you need to be careful about pounding the ring out. You will also need a new gasket.

chubbyranger
01-19-09, 09:50 AM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-seville-cadillac-eldorado-forum/116172-fuel-sender-unit-dyi-repair-possible.html

planocolt
01-19-09, 01:04 PM
Yea, I guess that would make more sense. Anyone have this tool for sale:http://i22.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/1b/03/c855_1.JPG

Ranger
01-19-09, 05:40 PM
I've used an hammer and a screwdriver and just tapped the retaining collar (ring) to turn it.

planocolt
01-20-09, 03:47 PM
Were you not a little concerned about sparks....?

Ranger
01-20-09, 05:41 PM
Nope. The tank was still sealed until I loosened it. Putting back on was the same. Had it finger tight, then by the time I had to tap it in place, it was sealed. Besides I WAS careful when tapping it on and off.

jeffrsmith
01-20-09, 07:13 PM
If your concerned about sparks you could use a brass drift instead of a screw driver.

Ranger
01-20-09, 08:11 PM
Correct. I wasn't worried about sparks though.

ewill3rd
01-20-09, 09:20 PM
Out of the hundreds I have done I have used many methods and never had a concern of sparks.
It isn't really a spark generating process.
Be sure to have something handy, like a fire extinguisher just in case but....

planocolt
01-21-09, 02:54 PM
I always have a fire extinguisher (or two) around.

Cause I tried to burn my Cadillac to the ground once........

jeffrsmith
01-22-09, 03:46 PM
I always have a fire extinguisher (or two) around.

Cause I tried to burn my Cadillac to the ground once........

Please share

Ranger
01-22-09, 04:11 PM
Post #11
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/157830-arrrghh-wont-start.html

planocolt
01-23-09, 01:26 PM
Oh yea, that was fun, I will post pics once I get the car running again, It's fuel pump time. I received the assembly yesterday. Jeeze, it's Huge

planocolt
01-24-09, 06:01 PM
OK, the lock ring wasn't a big deal at all. Fuel pump replaced.

Car starts now but I still have the same issue I started with I cannot throttle up and she stalls (And the overpressure valve pops). Throws code P0101.

Ranger
01-24-09, 08:43 PM
I cannot throttle up and she stalls
Clogged fuel filter?
or
P0101 - Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Performance

planocolt
01-25-09, 11:00 AM
I replaced the MAF a couple weeks ago. I replace the MAP a couple week ago. (I need a test mule to check may parts out on ;^)).

So the fuel pump Definetly helped. The car fired RIGHT up. It hasn't done that in a long while.

It runs very smoothly at " Fast idle" cold start, but when it kick down to normal idle it dies. Also if I cold start it and I try to throttle up, it bogs at ~1500 RPM the dies :^(

So, Map, MAF, Fuel pump replaced checked injectors for leaks, none detected, Checked all four colil packs with a spark plug tester, nice arc from all 4 packs, changed all 8 spark plugs, all replaced. Just a running list of diagnostics so far.

I have a scan tool.

http://www.obd-codes.com/reviews/data/4/1scantool_vpw.jpg

Anything you can think of to look at real time?

Ranger
01-25-09, 11:20 AM
I'm about out of ideas.

planocolt
01-25-09, 11:30 AM
I'm about out of ideas.


Don't say that! At this point it's a hobby, We have cars to get to work so
I have plenty of time.

I think I will do the Fuel Filter today, eh, it's a maintenence item anyway.

Could this be the PCM?

chubbyranger
01-25-09, 11:37 AM
Highlights from FSM on P101:

An improperly installed air cleaner or distorted/missing Intake Air Duct may cause this DTC to set.

MAF sensor frquency on scan tool should be 1135 Hz.
Disconnect MAF sensor connector.
Key ON measure the voltage to ground on MAF sensor terminal A (harness side): should be 4.7 to 5.3 volts.
Key ON measure the voltage to ground on MAF sensor terminal C (harness side): should be 10.5 to 15 volts.
Key ON measure the voltage between MAF sensor terminals B and C: should be the same as terminal C to ground measured above.
Failure of these tests implies a circuit problem of an open, short or high resistance contact.
Check terminal contact at MAF sensor connector and at PCM connector C2 terminal 45.
FSM does recommend PCM replacement as last step assuming MAF has been replaced and tested good.

Submariner409
01-25-09, 11:46 AM
Yeah that ^^^^

Any leak downstream of the MAF will cause slow speed problems. Is the 99 MAF bolted to the crossover casting or in-line near the filter box ??

You may have a good-sized intake manifold overpressure valve leak, or maybe a disconnected PCV vacuum hose either at the rear cam cover or the tit in the intake manifold.

chubbyranger
01-25-09, 11:52 AM
If this helps:
Terminal A is a yellow wire.
Terminal B is black/white.
Terminal C is pink.
Power comes from the IGN 1 fuse 11 underhood, 10A.
PCM C1 is Blue, C2 is clear.

planocolt
01-25-09, 12:08 PM
Highlights from FSM on P101:

An improperly installed air cleaner or distorted/missing Intake Air Duct may cause this DTC to set.

MAF sensor frquency on scan tool should be 1135 Hz.
Disconnect MAF sensor connector.
Key ON measure the voltage to ground on MAF sensor terminal A (harness side): should be 4.7 to 5.3 volts.
Key ON measure the voltage to ground on MAF sensor terminal C (harness side): should be 10.5 to 15 volts.
Key ON measure the voltage between MAF sensor terminals B and C: should be the same as terminal C to ground measured above.
Failure of these tests implies a circuit problem of an open, short or high resistance contact.
Check terminal contact at MAF sensor connector and at PCM connector C2 terminal 45.
FSM does recommend PCM replacement as last step assuming MAF has been replaced and tested good.

Oooo I like this....

planocolt
01-25-09, 01:23 PM
Yeah that ^^^^

Any leak downstream of the MAF will cause slow speed problems. Is the 99 MAF bolted to the crossover casting or in-line near the filter box ??

You may have a good-sized intake manifold overpressure valve leak, or maybe a disconnected PCV vacuum hose either at the rear cam cover or the tit in the intake manifold.


A picture is worth a thousand words:

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm95/planocolt/100_1311.jpg?t=1232907742

This is the second intake (The first had melting problems in a small fire ;^)) so I don't think both had overpressure valve issues. I custom made a new PCV hose assembly I don't think that is it. The part that nags at me is this is really an issue upon throttle up. I can throttle up from a fast idle and it does fine until ~1500 to 2000 rpm then it acts like it is going into a safe mode. the engine just .. well .... bogs down. Massive vacuum leak at that RPM?, PCM losing it's map..... ?hmmmmmm

planocolt
01-25-09, 04:02 PM
Key ON measure the voltage to ground on MAF sensor terminal A (harness side): should be 4.7 to 5.3 volts.

5 Volts rock solid

Key ON measure the voltage to ground on MAF sensor terminal C (harness side): should be 10.5 to 15 volts.

12V rock Solid

Key ON measure the voltage between MAF sensor terminals B and C: should be the same as terminal C to ground measured above.

12 Volts Rock Solid

Hey we tried.

chubbyranger
01-26-09, 11:20 PM
Key ON measure the voltage to ground on MAF sensor terminal A (harness side): should be 4.7 to 5.3 volts.

5 Volts rock solid

Key ON measure the voltage to ground on MAF sensor terminal C (harness side): should be 10.5 to 15 volts.

12V rock Solid

Key ON measure the voltage between MAF sensor terminals B and C: should be the same as terminal C to ground measured above.

12 Volts Rock Solid

Hey we tried.

FSM would have you replace the PCM. Not sure that is the right move, but that's what I recall from FSM. Of course I'm a 1,000 miles away from FSM right now and can't check it but IIRC that's the next step in the procedure. Gotta love the Easter Egg approach.