: Just got Amsoil oil and filter...When should I drop factory oil? 500 or 1000 miles?



GM-4-LIFE
01-16-09, 05:08 PM
I just got the last of Amsoil's EAO47 oil filters. Amsoil had 3 of them left in stock and they are now obsolete. Amsoil tech line said they are re-engineering the oil filter. There was nothing wrong with them for the V8s, but they wouldn't work on the 3.6L engines.

I am going to run Amsoil's signature series 0w30 oil and the EA oil filter. Guaranteed protection for 25,000 miles or one year service life.

When is it recommended to drop the break-in oil? 500 or 1,000 miles?

SG

CadV
01-16-09, 05:19 PM
I just got the last of Amsoil's EAO47 oil filters. Amsoil had 3 of them left in stock and they are now obsolete. Amsoil tech line said they are re-engineering the oil filter. There was nothing wrong with them for the V8s, but they wouldn't work on the 3.6L engines.

I am going to run Amsoil's signature series 0w30 oil and the EA oil filter. Guaranteed protection for 25,000 miles or one year service life.

When is it recommended to drop the break-in oil? 500 or 1,000 miles?

SG

SG, there really is no such thing as break in anymore. Drop it in anytime you like.

GM-4-LIFE
01-16-09, 05:25 PM
When I said break-in, I was talking about the factory metal shavings that are found when you perform the first oil change.

I just wanted to see when is the best time to do the first oil change in order to get as much of the factory shavings out of the oil pan so there is no chance of recirculating it back into the crankcase.

SG

RapidRob
01-16-09, 06:36 PM
Heck - I'd just play it safe and do it at 500.

Which leads me to ask - how did you come up with that EaO filter for the V2? I also ordered some of the Signature 0-30 oil, and tried to find an EaO filter for when I finally receive my V2, but they only show a Wix and no EaO filter for the CTS-V(2). Inquiry with their tech. service said they are working on the EaO for the V2 ...

Rob

GM-4-LIFE
01-16-09, 07:04 PM
Heck - I'd just play it safe and do it at 500.

Which leads me to ask - how did you come up with that EaO filter for the V2? I also ordered some of the Signature 0-30 oil, and tried to find an EaO filter for when I finally receive my V2, but they only show a Wix and no EaO filter for the CTS-V(2). Inquiry with their tech. service said they are working on the EaO for the V2 ...

Rob

Rob,

My company is an Amsoil dealer and as a dealer, they gave us the book that lists all the oil filter part numbers for every car dating back a few decades it seems.

From what I know about the GM platforms, GM uses the PF48 oil filter for our 2009 Escalade and the 2009 CTS-V and so I just thought I would check the oil filter part numbers out in the book and do a bit of cross referencing. The Amsoil book listed the 2007 and 2008 Escalade 6.2L engines with the EA oil filter EAO47 part number.

I then called Amsoil tech and verified that that part number was for sure the one for the Escalade which meant it would work for the CTS-V with no problem. The Amsoil tech also told me they had problems with that oil filter only because it wasn't compatible with the GM 3.6L and people were using them on the GM 3.6L engines and running into fitment issues. He told me there were no problems using the filters on the GM 6.2L engines like the Escalade and the C6 Corvettes and even the C6/Z06 7.0L engines.

I was told that they discontinued the EAO47 oil filter, but the Amsoil tech told me they showed they still had 3 of the EAO47 oil filters instock. He told me to call the sales line and order the filters through them. I did that yesterday and today, the oil filters showed up!

The Amsoil tech told me they were re-engineering the EAO47 oil filter and it will be re-released later this year, so they will have it. It's just that I had to have it NOW! I hope that explains how I figured it out and how I got it.

SG

Razorecko
01-16-09, 08:30 PM
To be extra safe you can get the dealer to throw on a http://www.filtermag.com/ on the filter to keep the new shavings from recirculating.

GM-4-LIFE
01-16-09, 08:37 PM
To be extra safe you can get the dealer to throw on a http://www.filtermag.com/ on the filter to keep the new shavings from recirculating.

I am gonna be running the Amsoil EA oil filter, so that should be sufficient in keeping out the metal particles from re-entering the crankcase.

SG

NormV
01-16-09, 08:58 PM
You can drive it like a Grandma for the first few oil changes but until you give the engine a good work out will you see an extra slivers of metal.

Give it a good gas tank worth of wringing out around the 700 mile mark. Cut open the filter using a hack saw on the filter ends. You'll be able to open up the filter element like an accordian for inspection. Just a messing task, but interesting.

Norm . .

GM-4-LIFE
01-16-09, 09:16 PM
You can drive it like a Grandma for the first few oil changes but until you give the engine a good work out will you see an extra slivers of metal.

Give it a good gas tank worth of wringing out around the 700 mile mark. Cut open the filter using a hack saw on the filter ends. You'll be able to open up the filter element like an accordian for inspection. Just a messing task, but interesting.

Norm . .

Norm,

I have a little more than 150 miles on the V now and I haven't been easy on the engine at all. I get on it all the time and I am sure I will have plenty of metal shavings in the oil when I drain it whether it is at 500 or 1,000 miles.

I am thinking of changing the oil out at between 500 and 1,000 miles just to be on the safe side.

The Amsoil will do my engine a lot of good.

SG

RapidRob
01-16-09, 10:14 PM
AERO1,

Thanks for the explanation above. Hopefully when I receive my V2, they will have the new filter available ... damb I hate this waiting though .. :helpless:

Rob

GMX322V S/C
01-17-09, 02:29 AM
Norm,

I have a little more than 150 miles on the V now and I haven't been easy on the engine at all. I get on it all the time and I am sure I will have plenty of metal shavings in the oil when I drain it whether it is at 500 or 1,000 miles.

I am thinking of changing the oil out at between 500 and 1,000 miles just to be on the safe side.

The Amsoil will do my engine a lot of good.

SGGonna do tranny and diff too? Just curious.

Razorecko
01-17-09, 10:07 AM
^ I have in my last vehicle and it made a noticeable difference. The only issue is that sometimes the original factory fluid has additives in it suited specifically for the break-in period. I wonder if this is the case w/ all the V2 fluids ?

GM-4-LIFE
01-17-09, 10:27 AM
GMX322V S/C,

Just the engine oil. ATF has a very high detergent value in it, so it should be just fine to leave the tranny alone. The rear end fluid should be just fine too as I never really noticed any metal particles during a rear diff service.

The engine oil seems to have a ton of metal shavings in it during the first 2 oil changes I have noticed with the GM pushrod V8s. All of my C5s, C5/Z06s, C6 and 2006 CTS-V were all the same during the first 2 oil changes. Metal shavings galore and I changed the oil out at least 3 times during the first 3,000 miles to ensure removing all the metal particles.

Razorecko,

You are right. I remember seeing this grey lube along with all the metal particles that were caught by the magnetic drain plug when I would change the oil. This grey lube was present primarily during the first 500 miles. During my second oil changes, all that was left on the magnetic drain plug was the metal shavings. It would get less and less as the mileage would increase.

SG

Razorecko
01-17-09, 10:29 AM
^ so that is always the question. Do you flush out the shavings and also the additive or let it do its work and just get a good oil filter and a magnetic drain plug.

GM-4-LIFE
01-17-09, 10:41 AM
^ so that is always the question. Do you flush out the shavings and also the additive or let it do its work and just get a good oil filter and a magnetic drain plug.

It's a hard decision to make. Almost every GM vehicle I have had is factory installed with the magnetic drain plug, so I am sure ours has it, but I will check when I do the first service. The oil filter I am going to use should be the best one available, so between the magnetic drain plug and the Amsoil filter, I should be ok. I may wait closer to 1,000 miles to drop the oil to ensure getting as much metal particles out and to leave the grey stuff in there to do it's job.

SG

C66 Racing
01-17-09, 12:54 PM
When is it recommended to drop the break-in oil? 500 or 1,000 miles?

SG

My personal opinion is to go to about 1000 miles which is what I did in my 02 Z06 when I bought it new. I bought my 06 CTS-V as a used corporate car with 7700 miles on the clock and fresh Mobil 1 in it and I went 3000 miles on that before swapping over to the AMSOIL 0w30 you are using.

I disagree with you on the diff fluid though. I believe most diff wear occurs in the first 1000 miles and keeping it in the diff isn't good.

Although this was well past 1000 miles, the wear numbers on my 06 CTS-V diff when I dropped out the factory fill fluid at about 10k miles was not pretty. I've got about 7k more miles now on the AMSOIL Severe Gear Extreme Pressure Synthetic 75w90 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/SVGPB.htm) and the diff whine is the same as the day I bought it and there is no chattering without needing extra additive.
2006 Cadillac CTS-V Used Oil Analysis Factory Fill Differential Fluid (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/TestResults/CTS-V%20Differential%20UOA.htm)

Finally, I'd consider that tranny fluid change as well. Personally, I'd use the AMSOIL Torque-Drive Synthetic Transmission Fluid (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/ATDPB.htm) (product code ATD) in your new car. I swapped out my AMSOIL ATF for the ATD this past weekend. I spoke with AMSOIL about the ATF vs the ATD and while both are great Dexron III fluids, the ATD has no viscosity improvers and will not shear down. Interestingly, after my discussions with AMSOIL, they swapped their recommendation for the Tremec 6 spds from ATF first, ATD second, to ATD first, ATF second.
2006 Cadillac CTS-V Used Oil Analysis Factory Fill Transmission Fluid (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/TestResults/CTS-V%20Transmission%20UOA.htm)
(Note: Click on the link to the actual Blackstone Lab report and check out how high the insolubles had climbed in only 10k miles).

Finally, confirming what was posted above, AMSOIL did discontinue the EAO47 earlier this year for the reasons mentioned above. I tried to get this info out and posted in several sub-forums, but missed this one. Sorry.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/c66-racing-amsoil-direct-dealer/152218-amsoil-recalls-eao47-gm-3-6l.html
:cheers:

Razorecko
01-17-09, 01:03 PM
I know that my oil temperature was a good 20-30 degrees hotter on average in the jeep prior to the first oil change. I'm guessing the additive might work in increasing oil temp as to help seat the rings under load. I would do a flush on all the fluids on the vehicle at the same time as the oil change. I would hate to have all that crap floating around. Im sure it wouldnt be $$$ cheap, but it would give me the peace of mind for future performance.

GM-4-LIFE
01-17-09, 01:16 PM
C66 Racing,

What do I need to do the diff service and tranny service?

The only problem with the tranny service is that even if you try and drain all of the factory fluid out of the pan, you still have all the factory fluid in the torque converter and the lines so it may take 2-3 complete tranny services to get all the factory fluid out.

Rear diff service is a lot easier as all they have to do is flush it out and re-fill with the Amsoil diff fluid.

I don't have a lift so I may have to take the fluids to the dealer and have them do the tranny and diff service for me. I know some dealers have a tranny flush machine that flushes out the old fluid and replaces it with new fluid, but that would be a factory fluid swap only as I don't know how they would re-fill their machine with the Amsoil.

Please let me know what I need for the tranny and diff and how many quarts of each.

Thanks!

SG

Razorecko
01-17-09, 01:19 PM
C66 Racing,

What do I need to do the diff service and tranny service?

The only problem with the tranny service is that even if you try and drain all of the factory fluid out of the pan, you still have all the factory fluid in the torque converter and the lines so it may take 2-3 complete tranny services to get all the factory fluid out.

Rear diff service is a lot easier as all they have to do is flush it out and re-fill with the Amsoil diff fluid.

I don't have a lift so I may have to take the fluids to the dealer and have them do the tranny and diff service for me. I know some dealers have a tranny flush machine that flushes out the old fluid and replaces it with new fluid, but that would be a factory fluid swap only as I don't know how they would re-fill their machine with the Amsoil.

Please let me know what I need for the tranny and diff and how many quarts of each.

Thanks!

SG


^ well in the manual you wouldnt have to worry about the tq. Now I know some places have a flush system for flushing tranny fluid so it should push all the fluid out through the system.

GM-4-LIFE
01-17-09, 05:10 PM
^ well in the manual you wouldnt have to worry about the tq. Now I know some places have a flush system for flushing tranny fluid so it should push all the fluid out through the system.

That's the thing, I want to flush out the factory trans fluid out and put in the Amsoil fluid. I don't have a manual V.

SG

C66 Racing
01-17-09, 06:33 PM
That's the thing, I want to flush out the factory trans fluid out and put in the Amsoil fluid. I don't have a manual V.

SG

Replied to your PM before reading this, so didn't know if you had the manual or auto.

For fluids, AMSOIL recommends these:
Tranny: AMSOIL ATF (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/ATFPB.htm) (product code ATFQT)

The AMSOIL Online Product Application Guide (http://www.amsoil.com/redirect.cgi?zo=1206638&page=appguide) shows the capacity of your auto tranny as 6.7 quarts for a drain and fill, or 14 quarts for a total fill. My suggestion, and what I've done with my auto trannies, is to just use a feed and bleed type approach and drain out as much as you can of the factory fluid and fill it back up with the AMSOIL ATF, then do it again in about 5-10k miles. The AMSOIL ATF is compatible with the factory fill, so no problem mixing them.

Diff: AMSOIL Severe Gear Extreme Pressure Synthetic 75w90 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/SVGPB.htm) (product code SVGQT) (capacity about 1.5 quarts - I'd order 2)
AMSOIL Slip-Lock Differential Additive (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/ADAPB.htm) (product code ADABA)
(I recommend one bottle)

The AMSOIL Severe Gear comes with friction modifier in it and adding extra additive in most cars is not required. For example, I use this gear lube in both my 06 CTS-V and my 02 Z06 and don't need extra additive in either to prevent diff chatter. That said, it appears that GM started using different diff clutch plates in the C6 Corvette and almost all of my C6 and C6 Z06 customers need to use an extra bottle of the additive to prevent diff chatter. Although I don't yet have any direct knowledge of the 09 CTS-V, I'd guess that GM is using the same diff clutch plates and thus I do recommend one bottle of the additive.

If you do this yourself, you'll need one of these as well:
AMSOIL Hand Pump (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/G2039PB.htm) (product code G2039)

I did my tranny (manual) this past weekend, along with my oil. My approach is to use four Rhino Ramps (available at most autoparts stores, Walmart, etc). In my CTS-V, I can drive up on the front two, then I use my racing jack to lift the rear of the car and slide the two rear ramps under the tires. I can then easily get under the car to drain the fluid for either the diff or tranny and it makes the oil change easier. Then I lift the rear with my jack, remove the two rear Rhino Ramps, then back off the front two.

Diff change is easy. Open fill plug, open drain plug and drain, replace drain plug, use pump and pump fluid up into diff, replace fill plug. I'd pump in a little of the first quart, then pour the additive into the remainder of the quart bottle of SVG, then pump it into the diff, then top the diff off with the second bottle of SVG.

In most of my auto trannies, the drain plug is on the bottom and the fill normally goes down the dipstick. I've never seen an 09 CTS-V, so I'd recommend checking the owner's manual on this one.
:cheers:

NormV
01-17-09, 08:01 PM
FYI on diff fluid on break-in. My 05 GTO had green-ish gray which didn't resemble anything I'd put in it. Of course it had s Dana in it. Any idea who makes the iron diff?

I guess we'll find out if the V2, auto and manual use break in oil.

Norm