: Olds 350 Question



greencadillacmatt
01-14-09, 11:53 PM
I may be getting a 1972 Oldsmobile 350 Rocket Motor to rebuild for my engine class in college. When I am done with the motor, I wouldn't mind putting it in my 1984 Cadillac Coupe DeVille. Since the Olds Diesel was an option, shouldn't the Olds 350 Gasoline motor bolt right in? (I would need to get the 350 Mounts, my car has the HT4100.) The 200-4r has the BOP bolt pattern from the factory, so that shouldn't be a problem. The throttle cable and the trans T.V. cable would need to be hooked to the carb on the olds motor. Would the Olds 350 Gas engine work with the stock cooling system? Would the fuel pickup in the gas tank need to be changed? I don't care if the AC works, but will the Climate Control need wired differently? Anything else that you guys can think of that I should know? Thanks in advance, and be sure to put in your opinion! :D

csbuckn
01-15-09, 01:20 AM
http://oldsjunction.classicoldsmobile.com/oldsfaq/ofe350.htm

This page has all the info on olds motors, go down to the bottom and choose from the table of contents. I would suggest reading the sections on blocks, heads, 350 and pistons.

greencadillacmatt
01-15-09, 02:34 AM
Thanks for the link, that site should be very helpful! I forgot to ask in the last post, but does anything in the exhaust have to be changed, and if so, what needs to be swapped? Thanks again for any info.

MadCaddie69
01-15-09, 04:55 PM
Thanks for the link, that site should be very helpful! I forgot to ask in the last post, but does anything in the exhaust have to be changed, and if so, what needs to be swapped? Thanks again for any info.

That depends. If you want true duals, look into swapping the crossmember. I bought an Olds 350 in 2007. I planned on putting it into my '90 Brougham, but ended up selling it due to lack of help and funds. I'm planning on getting an LS2.

greencadillacmatt
01-18-09, 01:35 AM
Will I need the exhaust manifolds from a 307 car, or by some weird chance will the HT4100's exhaust manifolds work? I am not too concerned with true duals at this point, but it does look like I am getting the Olds motor. Thanks for the responses so far, you guys ROCK!!! :worship:

csbuckn
01-18-09, 10:32 AM
You can use exhaust manifolds from any v8 olds block from 68 to 90, except for 85-90 307s, the ports are a different size and will not match up. What is the ht4100, a chevy motor? But I dont think you will be able to use the manifolds from your 4100.

greencadillacmatt
01-18-09, 04:47 PM
Anybody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the HT4100 was a motor developed by Cadillac and put into use as a MPG tool in 1982-1984. The motor wasn't developed very well. It had very soft camshafts, tiny oil drainbacks in the heads, and dissimilar metals used to make the engine. The block was aluminum to save weight, but the heads were cast iron. This caused the motor to heat up at different rates, playing bloody-hell with the intake manifold gaskets and the head gaskets. Plus it only made 135 HP and 200 ft.-lbs. of torque. It is no engine to put into a 2-ton Caddy. This is why I'm looking to find something with a bit more kick to it. Sorry for the history lesson, and thanks for letting me know about this stuff. I appreciate all the info, csbuckn, and everybody else. Let me know if there is anything else to know. :thumbsup:

jayoldschool
01-18-09, 07:08 PM
The Olds 350 will make a great engine for you. While you are rebuilding, make sure that the compression ratio is low enough for regular gas, and that the heads are redone with hardened valve seats for unleaded gas.

Go to a junkyard and find an 86-89 and get all the accessory brackets from a 307 car to use on your 350. You could get the engine mounts, too. Hell, for the price of the car, may as well just buy a crappy 86-89 and have it available to steal parts while you do your swap. Sell off extra parts to make some money, and you will still get a couple hundred in scrap if you drag it in yourself.

greencadillacmatt
01-18-09, 11:47 PM
Found out the other day that the guy with the '72 350 already sold it, but I found another guy with a one-owner, 59,000 mile, Olds 350. I'm going to go check it out tomorrow. This motor is from a '76 Olds. That means it has HEI ignition, is set up for regular gas, and still has the non-windowed main webs in the block ('76 was the last year for the good blocks.) So I'm really hoping that this is a good engine. Jay, the '76 has all the accessories on it. Do I still need the accessories off of an 85-90 307, or will these ones work? Thanks for the help guys, my Caddy will be a "Rocket" with the Olds 350! :burn: (Always wanted an excuse to use that animation:bouncy:)

jayoldschool
01-19-09, 10:23 AM
The accessories will work. If the alternator and compressor are on the wrong sides you will have to change/alter wires and hoses. I would use your later R4 compressor instead of the A6 on the 76 (although the A6 is very reliable). Your later alternator is likely higher amps, as well. Just google some pics of engines and you will quickly see what you will have to do.

greencadillacmatt
01-19-09, 10:53 AM
Very cool about the accessories. Speaking of cool, will my stock cooling system work if I plumb the new engine to the stock parts? Don't want to blow up my radiator (or anything else for that matter.) :bighead: I like to ask a lot of questions, just so I know what to do when swap time comes. Thanks!

jayoldschool
01-19-09, 11:57 AM
Cooling system will be fine. You could get your stock rad recored with a thicker core if you are concerned.

When you have your 350 out, I would suggest regasketing it, and maybe sliding in a new cam. Cam technology has come a LONG way in thirty years. You will be rewarded with more power, and likely better mileage, too!

greencadillacmatt
01-19-09, 08:37 PM
That is exactly what I'm going to do with the motor. I'm going to get a re-ring kit that also includes all of the gaskets. The whole motor will be apart for my college engine class. Gonna throw a much nicer cam into it as well. The motor should be done sometime in late March or early April, whenever the class gets out.
That is great news about the stock cooling system. I have a whole bunch of new gauges that I got from a friend at work (a big box for like 15 bucks), so I can keep an eye on my RPM, Oil Pressure, and Cooland Temp.
Also, will the info on this site about wiring a 472/500 into an '84 DeVille also pertain to wiring in the Olds motor? They are both carburated, so it should be similar, right? Thanks for the help so far, everybody. You guys RULE :cool2:.

Scraped Knuckles
01-20-09, 03:50 PM
I had a 350 Rocket in my 79 Delta 88 and it had a 3 core rad. The 403 with trailer packages had a 4 core rad. The puny 250 C.I.D. 4.1 ltr has a small 2 core rad that might be fine for winter but you would overheat in the spring. Buy a set of headers because the Olds uses a crappy restrictive system with a cross over pipe into the passenger side manifold instead of using a Y pipe like Chevy. Any size Olds V8 260 - 455 will bolt up to 307 mounts. The front springs will sag from the heavy Rockets weight compared to the aluminum 4.1 . You should add a shift kit and trans cooler if your staying with the weak 200r4. Your fuel mileage should improve a little. The Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold and cam kit with a Holley 750 doublepumper is a pretty strong package (you'll need a dropped base air cleaner, and look for a high stall torque convertor from a Buick Grand National or aftermarket). Edelbrock listed their RPM package in a 350 Olds 10.0-1 compression ratio street strip ported polished heads at 387 HP, add Mondello roller rockers and your up to 400 HP . Google Joe Mondello

greencadillacmatt
01-20-09, 05:51 PM
I think that the front springs should be all-right for the 350 Olds. They are the same springs that they used for the Diesel 350 Olds and those did fine. (anybody correct me if I'm wrong.) I will do more radiator research as well. The swap is a couple months away, and I like to know what to do beforehand. Thanks for the help so far. The inexperienced newb appreciates it! :thumbsup:

greencadillacmatt
01-21-09, 06:46 PM
I found out that you can still buy commercial chassis in-tank fuel pickups from advance auto. The 1984 Hearse's used the 368 Big Block, which wasn't fuel injected or computer controlled. The Limo's were. The Hearse's used the same size gas tank as my Coupe DeVille, so the carbed pickup should go right into my electric fuel pump's slot. Anything else I would need to do with the fuel system? Thanks in advance,
-greencadillacmatt :bouncy:

jayoldschool
01-21-09, 08:39 PM
You can keep your electric FP. TBI only uses around 13psi. Just add a regulator to bring it down a little (9 I believe) for the carb.

greencadillacmatt
01-21-09, 11:13 PM
I would be using an early 70's carb (pre-smog equip) ((rochester 4-barrel)). Wouldn't the electric fuel pump constantly spray fuel into carb? Would the rochester carb even need a mechanical fuel pump then? Does anybody make a regulator for this type of application? That would be AWESOME if it would work! :cool2: Thanks, and sorry for all the questions. Thanks for the idea, Jay.

greencadillacmatt
01-21-09, 11:21 PM
Also, would the stock TBI on the HT4100 work? If a TBI-Carb intake adapter was available, would something like that work? The ammount that the stock injectors put out would have to be upped, that's for sure. Anybody done anything like this? It would rule to have TBI on that motor, but if that won't work I like the idea of the electric fuel pump and the carb. Thanks in advance,
-Matt

jayoldschool
01-21-09, 11:42 PM
The TBI from the 4100 won't work. Actually, it will work, just not well. Its fuel delivery will be inadequate for the displacement of the new 350. You could retrofit the 5.7 GM TBI unit and computer, but you are in for some wiring. Another alternative is to use the 5.7 TBI on the Olds, and keep the 4100 computer with a custom chip burned by a tuning company. I honestly have no idea if this is even possible. Not sure if anyone is tuning for the 4100...

Yes, the electric fuel pump will "spray" (pump) all the time. So will a mechanical pump. The carb has floats, needles and seats. When it is full of gas, the needle blocks more gas from coming in. With an electric FP, the extra gas returns to the tank. Another nice bonus is that you are getting cool gas all the time. You can get a regulator just about anywhere. Check Jegs and Summit. Just call them and tell them what you need. They will know exactly what you are talking about.

greencadillacmatt
01-22-09, 12:54 AM
I think that I will just go with the carb and the electric pump. The TBI transformation sounds like it would be waaaay to complicated for a novice like me.:hmm: Does the stock Caddy fuel line then just plug into the front of the carb where the stock fuel line and filter went? Should I use a fuel filter in that same area like they did on the stock olds motor? Thanks for all the great info.
Anybody know if my front springs will be OK? I know that the 350 Diesel was an option that year, and I don't think that they used heavier-duty springs. Anybody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks!
-Matt

greencadillacmatt
01-26-09, 06:32 PM
I have access to a 1992 Chevy Caprice. It had the 305 V-8. Does anybody know if the radiator from the 305 would do a better job than the HT4100's radiator for the Olds 350? I only ask because the rad from the Caprice is only a few months old. Would it bolt into the Caddy, or would I have to make custom mounts? I think that I read somewhere that Caprice parts bolt right into the D-Body Cadillacs. Thanks in advance,
-Matt

jayoldschool
01-26-09, 06:45 PM
Take the top rad cover/mount off both cars. Check out the thickness of the cores. Use the one that is the thickest (and that has the best condition vanes). Should go in fine - just double check the inlet/outlets are in the same place!

greencadillacmatt
02-03-09, 12:15 AM
Will the front coil springs in my Caddy be OK with the Olds 350 in there? Will it sag way down, or will it still look (somewhat) close to stock? I don't want some crazy rake on my car if possible :bonkers:. Also, is the stock 4.1 radiator the same radiator that they used for the Olds 350 Diesel? If it is, then I won't have to worry about cooling. Thanks in advance,
-Matt

jayoldschool
02-03-09, 01:22 PM
Your springs should be ok. If they sag, just order springs for a 86-92. Don't know if the rads are the same, but check the part numbers for both applications on rockauto.com and compare...

greencadillacmatt
02-11-09, 04:35 AM
What about the power steering? Will the P/S pump from my '84 work on the Olds motor? If so, how do you mount it? Can I just disconnect it from my HT4100 and just tie it out of the way when I do the swap? Or does it need drained and all of that fun stuff? Thanks for the help with the swap info, this will be my first. :highfive:

cadillac_al
02-11-09, 09:14 AM
Just tie the ps pump out of the way. You might need some 307 ps brackets to mount it on the 350. Trial and error will tell.

greencadillacmatt
03-26-09, 09:38 PM
UPDATED!!! (Figured I'd pull up the old thread than start a new one.) Well, the engine is coming along nicely, going to start re-assembly next tues. I do have a new question, though. I have been looking at the torque converters on the Olds 307 powerd cars and my HT4100 powered car. They are the same. They both have a 10.7" bolt circle. My Olds 350 has a 10.75" bolt circle. My question is if the torque converter from a HT4100 or 307 car will bolt to the 350's flexplate. I dont have the cash for a custom converter, and I really wouldn't like the drill into a flexplate. Will this work? Please let me know. Thanks,
-MM

akimball442
03-26-09, 10:25 PM
The torque converter that attaches to the 307 engine will bolt perfectly to the flywheel on the 350.

Dcarlson
03-26-09, 10:35 PM
What about throwing in injectors from lets say... a early TBI chev truck? I'm pretty sure they're nearly identical except for size. Use the Cadillac computer system, It's just a pulse width modulated injection system. If you could figure out how to install the larger injectors, I'd be something interesting to tinker with. Whether or not you could go with a whole new throttle body, or what. I might have to go to a u-pull, get me self a TBI from a 90's GMC truck, and do some playing on my parts car. :D

greencadillacmatt
03-27-09, 05:29 AM
SWEEEEET!!! I looked up the specs, and that means the one from my HT4100 will work. (It's the exact same converter.) Thanks!
I'm also getting a great deal on a used Edelbrock Performer carb. My engine-overhaul instructor has it, and he is going to go through it, clean it, and re-jet it for my Olds engine. I even get the tuning book for it. WOO-HOO!!!

akimball442
03-27-09, 12:45 PM
SWEEEEET!!! I looked up the specs, and that means the one from my HT4100 will work. (It's the exact same converter.) Thanks!
I'm also getting a great deal on a used Edelbrock Performer carb. My engine-overhaul instructor has it, and he is going to go through it, clean it, and re-jet it for my Olds engine. I even get the tuning book for it. WOO-HOO!!!


Buy the kickdown (called TV or throttle valve) cable adapter for the edelbrock carb. I think they're around $20. You can cob the cable up to work on the carb as is, but the adapter adjusts the geometry of the throttle linkage and will make sure that your shifts are timed properly with the correct pressure.

greencadillacmatt
03-27-09, 03:03 PM
I'm definately getting the TV Cable adapter/adjuster. It's about $40 from TCI. I'd rather my trans not eat itself with loose shifting, or blow itself up with explosive-grade shifting. It will be a very wise investment. The carb that I'm getting has an electric choke. What is something that I can wire it to under the hood? It needs to be 12V when the key is in the on position. Thanks. I'll keep you guys posted on any updates. Thanks Again!:thumbsup:

akimball442
03-27-09, 08:20 PM
Use a standard Bosch relay to wire the choke to battery power (fused). You can get ignition power to turn the relay on and off from a variety of places in the car.

Hooking it to the ignition coil is popular but a no-no. The relay should actually get it's ground from the oil pressure switch, so that it can only work with the engine running, not just the key on. This is how GM did it on cars with electric chokes.

Send a PVT if you need me to clarify that, or supply a diagram.

greencadillacmatt
04-08-09, 01:57 PM
HELP!!!
I dropped one of the pistons, and broke the skirt on it. It is a standard-bore engine, and as far as I know, the piston is stock. It has a recessed head, and I can't find another one. I can find the low compression pistons, and I can find higher compression pistons, but none my size. The recess is about .12" or .13" deep. All I can find are ones that are twice that depth or half of it. I am rebuilding the engine for a school project, and am low on cash, so I am trying to find just the one piston. The part # is 411891, and there is a B in the recessed part. If anybody has one for sale, please let me know. Or let me know where I can find one. Thanks,
-Matt Murdock

greencadillacmatt
04-22-09, 06:54 PM
csbuckn to the rescue!!! Thanks a ton to him, and to all the increadible people on the CadillacForums. You guys rule. :worship:

csbuckn
04-22-09, 09:59 PM
No problem, I had an extra set and needed the room. I just got an Olds Deisel 350 and another Olds 307 so the old stuff has to go. Now I have to think what I'm gonna do with the deisel.

greencadillacmatt
04-23-09, 03:25 AM
I know that you can build a HELL of a strong gas engine out of the Olds 350 Diesel Blocks. You need to mod some parts, (like all the diesel add on holes in the block) but they come with solid main webs and 455 Olds main caps. They are a good foundation for stong engines, from what I've heard.

csbuckn
05-24-09, 11:27 AM
So about the knock sensor, do I need to run one on the 350. I know the one from the 307 wont work so do I need to get another one from the year of my block(if there was)? Green Matt, where are you at in your build?

VortecCaddy
05-24-09, 02:38 PM
You need to get a knock sensor for the year of your vehicle as well as one that went with the cars computer. Different computers use different frequencies on the knock sensors.

csbuckn
05-24-09, 05:18 PM
that would be the 307 sensor but its setup for a roller cam, do you think it would detect knock in a flat tappet cam. Didnt one of these D body caddies have an olds deisel 350? Would that work? I thought the computers accepted the same signal and the knock sensor had different signals. But the computer takes different signals and knock sensors are the same? Does that make sense...

akimball442
05-25-09, 05:04 PM
Knock sensors detect detonation, which is early combustion caused by hot spots in the cylinder. EGR was designed to prevent this problem. It's far less of a problem in Olds 350 engines compared with 307s for some reason. Probably because the 307 runs 2 degrees more of timing.

The knock sensor is in place so that if the detonation is detected, the ECM can retard the timing a little bit to eliminate the knocking/pinging/detonation or whatever you want to call it. (read: reduce NOx emissions)

You should be able to get by without one. Just set your timing to the correct spec for the 350, which I think is 18 degrees BTDC @ 1000 RPMs. Or set it at 20 and run high-test fuel.

I think these cars use a piezo knock sensor. It generates a small voltage similar to what the O2 sensor does. If you decide to eliminate the input, I'd ground it through a 10K resistor. The resistor will keep it from being directly shorted to ground, while preventing the disconnected sensor lead from picking up stray voltages that could cause the ECM to breifly modify your timing.

A diesel engine does not have a knock sensor... the diesel engines have detonation knocks by nature- the very same knock you try to prevent in a gas engine. That's how diesels run. When your gasser sounds like a diesel, then your timing needs to be retarded.

cadillac_al
05-26-09, 08:33 AM
I think this is some kind of black art secret science that I don't understand. I do know that Chevy 305's use a different knock sensor than the 350.

csbuckn
05-26-09, 09:41 AM
Do you think running without one would keep the check engine light on?

akimball442
05-26-09, 07:29 PM
Possibly, but have you checked to see if there is actually an error code for the knock sensor for your year? I don't think there is, but I could be wrong.

csbuckn
06-04-09, 05:11 AM
Another quick question...I put the crank and pistons in today and tightened everything to spec, pistons in there original spot. But now I cant turn the motor. I had the torque wrench set at 140 and still nothing, it felt like I was gonna strip the bolt. Does anybody know why the motor wont turn? Bearings went in good and plastigage measured right.

greencadillacmatt
06-04-09, 11:51 PM
Mine did that when I put my Olds together at school. We took the main caps back off and re-torqued them in proper sequence. (there was one step that we skipped on the center cap) While we were putting it back together, and before we put the crank, in another teacher walked by, and he asked if we had oiled the rear main seal. I hadn't, so we glopped on a heavy coat of STP oil treatment oil. (That stuff is CRAZY thick.) Once everything was installed, we tried rolling the engine again. Once the STP goo was forced around the bottom of the rear main seal, it spun pretty easy. I hope that helps. :hmm:

csbuckn
06-29-09, 12:21 PM
Got the pistons and the heads on. The intake is dry fitted for the pic. I may do some more chrome on top because the chrome oil pan is looking nice. I ordered two sets of piston rings and they were both too big so I gapped them myself. Think I did it right.

cadillac_al
06-29-09, 10:10 PM
Dude it looks just like my engine! I was bummed out because the red isn't as bright as I wanted but it looks better in the pics.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr276/cadillac_al/th_100_0066.jpg (http://s491.photobucket.com/albums/rr276/cadillac_al/?action=view&current=100_0066.jpg)

csbuckn
06-29-09, 11:14 PM
Is yours a rocket? I used universal red. I was thinking of doing the brackets a contrasting color but cant think of one besides black. I was lucky enough to get a bracket set that doesnt have smog, it moves the AC over and down to even out the pull on the crank. I'm kinda excited to see if this will get rid of the belt noise.

greencadillacmatt
07-15-09, 10:49 PM
Well, the HT4100 in my '84 finally blew the head-gasket today. :bomb: It's going in Monday for the new fiberglass filler panels, but it's being parked after that. I need to get cracking on my Olds 350. It just needs some finishing touches.

csbuckn
07-16-09, 02:51 AM
I have to take mine apart. The piston rings I bought were oversized sized but I grinded them to fit. Didnt think that the oil rings were oversize too. This will be the third set. The first ones ad was wrong, the second one was my fault-I didnt see the 040 at the end of the part number(but it didnt say anything about being oversized in the ad, still my fault) and now I should have the correct ones coming(or I'm going postal on ebay). So upsetting. But I may use the carb off the 425 if it works but I havent took a good look yet. Anybody know if the carb will work? I think I saw electric choke under there.

greencadillacmatt
07-16-09, 02:58 AM
I would think that the 425 Carb would work, because it's still a Q-Jet. It probably has a bunch of emissions junk on it. That's why I got an edelbrock carb. But even that will need an adapter plate to the intake. Spead-bore vs. square-bore. I need some random bolts, the distributer (origional was rusted junk) and the accessories. I may be getting a 307 parts engine out of a Cutlass next week, so that ought to speed things along. I'll post more when I have more of it together. Good luck with the rings! :thumbsup:

csbuckn
08-10-09, 06:06 AM
So I got the 307/200 out. One thing I did notice was that the 2 piece engine mount(engine side) was broken on both sides. on one side, both bolts were broke off in the engine block and the other side had one broken bolt. The Olds 350 should be done in about a week

RocketFast321
08-10-09, 09:42 PM
My cents, did not read all. but just some FYI and my 2 cents :)
If you use a non CCC carb you will need a vacuum advance distributor, and and the other stuff like O2 will not work. The best thing to do is use the 307 carb it's like a 750 and 307 distributor. These parts will also need to be connected for the car to run right.
http://performanceolds307.tripod.com/id1.html
- Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) - inside the carb, senses how far the throttle is opened.
- Oxygen sensor (O2 sensor)
- Coolant Temp Sensor - engine temp
- Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor (MAP sensor) - engine vacuum
- Barometric pressure sensor (Baro sensor) - outside air pressure
- Senses RPM through the distributor
- Vehicle Speed sensor - it's built into the back of the speedometer cluster - senses vehicle speed
- 4th gear pressure switch - this tells the car when it's in overdrive. There may be a 3rd gear pressure switch, I'm not sure
- Later vehicles, '86 and later I believe have a knock sensor that detects pinging and detonation

csbuckn
08-10-09, 11:42 PM
VERY nice link, now I just need to find somebody that knows how to do that stuff and I will be good. I'll stick with the 307 carb now that I know how important it is. I know I will have to do some of those mods for the cam and the new 3.07 gears. Should I take the carb to a shop?

RocketFast321
08-11-09, 01:23 AM
The computer can run your setup as long as it's not a big drag cam. If you plan on running a/c use your 307 pulleys. If not get pulley setup off an olds 350. What the computer controls is idle and part throttle.

Here is my sightly modded 307. Overhaul 307, Cams, pistons, p&p heads, 403 intake, no smog pump, metal timing set. I forget what else it has. But i have my tired 25 year old 200r4 behind it. :suspense: When i had the 455 in ym wagon the 200r4 was in a field for about a year. But it seems to work, just needs to be driven.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htp6u_RD52c&feature=channel_page

Stingroo
08-11-09, 01:40 AM
I wish I had that kind of mechanical skill to build a car. Jealous. :(

Classic line though "F***in door!" lol

RocketFast321
08-11-09, 04:09 AM
Not really skill, half the time i don't know what i'm doing. I learn most of my skills off the net. And having a 84 Electra help out too. Here is my build log

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103708

csbuckn
08-13-09, 02:18 AM
So I just rebuilt the carb, there was a lot of buildup under there. I only did the gaskets and float/needle because thats as far as my carb skills go. Rocket, when you say to use the 307 brackets for AC, why? I planned on using the 350 brackets.

RocketFast321
08-13-09, 03:26 AM
To keep it simple, the 307 and 350 are the same size. Well looking at them that is. But i was not talking about just the a/c bracket i was talk about the crank and water pump also. I don't know if a 307 a/c will work a 350 pulley setup. But it ""should"".

csbuckn
08-20-09, 01:37 PM
Despite the rain, I got it in. Couple questions...The temp sensor doesnt screw into the new intake because the hole is too big, so I got a reducer but the temp gauge doenst sit all the way in there like its supposed to. Does this gauge need to be in the fluid or does it sense the air around it? If it does need to be down further, any ideas? Also, there is a sensor that I wont be able to hook up(dont remember which one) that has a non variable read out, can I get a resister to plug into it? And thanks for all the help to get this motor in.
52072

jayoldschool
08-20-09, 02:49 PM
The sensor has to contact liquid. Try the plumbing section at Home Depot to see what you can come up with. Some sort of reducer...

csbuckn
08-21-09, 08:10 PM
is there a way to get radiator fluid in the block before starting? Should I pure it in the thermastat opening or just put it in the radiator? I think the last time I just put it in the radiator but I'm not sure if this is the best way.

jayoldschool
08-21-09, 09:11 PM
Take the thermostat out, and pour in the coolant and fill it up.

csbuckn
08-24-09, 11:33 PM
So during the break in, it got hot and I had to shut her down. The engine needs to burp but should I run it without the therm and the radiator cap on? I heard that I could loosen the temp gauge on top to vent it after I shut it off.

cadillac_al
08-25-09, 11:20 PM
No need to make things difficult. The Olds engines have a bypass tube by the thermostat so I don't see how any air can get trapped in there. If the radiator is full to the top then the engine should be mostly full. I would just put the radiator cap on and fill the overflow tank 1/2 - 3/4 full and let everything work automatically. The radiator will blow out some air and suck in some coolant and everything should be fine. If you are breaking in a new cam in the garage or driveway, you may need a fan in front of the radiator to help it get a little more air flow. Good luck CS.

greencadillacmatt
08-26-09, 02:35 AM
Hey CS, I have read that you used Olds 307 accessories and brackets. I'm on my way tomorrow to get an Olds 307. Did you use all of the accessories from the 307, or just some? Also, did you use the 350's AC pump, or the 307's? Thanks!

csbuckn
08-26-09, 09:50 AM
I used everything but smog from the 307. I used all the brackets from the 350 and the stock 307 AC bolted in. The 307 brackets work also and are lighter but the 350s brackets make things easier to repair if needed.

akimball442
08-27-09, 11:42 PM
In an Olds engine, drill a 1/8- 3/16" hole in the thermostat, on one of the edges. You won't regret it. It does not prevent it from working properly, but it guarantees the air gets out.

It's a common practice with Olds engines.

N0DIH
08-30-09, 08:56 AM
You can make it run like a friend of mine's Olds 350 with a D Block...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kd-dpW7Vo8

Iron heads aren't all bad!

N0DIH
08-30-09, 09:04 AM
Honestly, a 1/16" hole is better yet, small is key, only air needs to be bled out, I did a 1/4" hole and the car would never go over 150F, the stat passed too much coolant for it. I had to toss the stat and get a new one without a hole.

There is a company, can recall who, but has a hole factory and has a little check ball that is the bleeder. That is the best stat to get.

I like to fill my rad with the rad cap open and the car on a hill sideways as much as I can, or a jack, I then rev up the engine once stat is open to around 2500 rpm and then take off cap and add water or antifreeze till it is full and keeping revved up, toss cap on. The system will immediately pressurize and will be as full as you can get it.

I don't worry about the hole drilled in the thermostat when you fill it that way.


In an Olds engine, drill a 1/8- 3/16" hole in the thermostat, on one of the edges. You won't regret it. It does not prevent it from working properly, but it guarantees the air gets out.

It's a common practice with Olds engines.

akimball442
08-30-09, 01:22 PM
A 1/4" inch hole is huge. That will flow more than four times the amount of coolant as a 1/8" hole.

A 1/16" hole might be to small. I've been running olds V8s my entire driving life, and I have one that I built for my 84 olds 98 that is soon to be transplanted in the 81 coupe deville. I have drilled a 1/8" hole in every thermostat since I overheated a 307 that was airbound. I've never had a problem since. The engine heats to the proper temperature and does not overheat or overcool.

Just be darn sure if this is a first run that you're running the larger radiator- order one for your car that is the heavy duty. I think they are three core. Otherwise they make some sort of new one that are single core, but the cores are like 2 inches wide- I have one and it works extremely well. The two core radiator is not going to cut it.

Get a 185 thermostat, drill a 1/8" hole in the rim of it. Fold a matchbook over and run it between the throttle stop and linkage on the carb to get around a 1200 RPM idle. Turn the heater on high and fill it up, it'll bleed out on it's own just fine.

N0DIH
08-31-09, 12:33 AM
The alum rads (if you find them) are std on all new cars, they are only 1 and 2 core, my 454 Suburban has a 2 core alum that is good for towing 10K lbs.

The 96-up 1500 Suburbans/Tahoe/CK Trucks have the big rads and they are alum, not 100% sure on width, but might work and give a good rad upgrade.

I feel that 1/16" is plenty, Olds felt none is good, and we are somehow much smarter than a room full of OEM engineers, so if we have to upgrade, it is a very small amount, the key is not to pass too much water and just let it pass air. It won't take long with a 1/16" hole.

If you need high perf cooling, then block off the bypass all together and then run a 1/8"-3/16" hole.

I honestly have never had a PROBLEM with air in an Olds cooling system.

Check the OldsFAQ for info, when we were "creating" it, we had a lot of great people with great info and insight on it.

http://oldsjunction.classicoldsmobile.com/oldsfaq/ I think we had it in there....

RocketFast321
08-31-09, 02:49 AM
Also, there is a sensor that I wont be able to hook up(dont remember which one) that has a non variable read out, can I get a resister to plug into it? And thanks for all the help to get this motor in.
52072

Might be the one for the dash light to let you know your car is overheating. The olds 350 intake should just have one port by the t-stat for the dash light. But you had to use that one for the computer. I see you got the duel belt setup, sweet :)


How i bump my coolant system was I jack the front up a little and filled up the rad and over flow tank. And the air worked itself out.

csbuckn
08-31-09, 10:14 AM
So I got it to run okay. I have to tune it a little before I can say its done. motor seems strong though. I'll get back when I have it tuned. Hopefully find a way to get some video up here.

greencadillacmatt
12-02-09, 02:56 PM
Thought I would dredge this old thread up instead of making a new one. It is time for exhaust on my Olds 350 buildup, and I was wondering what I can do for headers. I have been trying to find a set of pre-1970 stock exhaust manifolds (the ones without the stupid crossover) but I havn't had to much luck. Lately I have been tempted by the low cost of aftermarket headers. I was told by my engine teacher that headers would gain me a few horsepower anyway. What I need to know is, will regular (non block-hugger or shorty) headers fit in my Caddy without hitting anything. It is a 1984 Coupe DeVille with the HT 4100. Will headers for a Cutlass fit in there, or should I continue my search for stock exhaust manifolds? :hmm: Thanks in advance, -GCM

cadillac_al
12-02-09, 03:57 PM
I do believe that 73-77 Cutlass parts will fit on the B bodies. Somebody should come along soon to confirm that. 80-81 Chevy pickups with the Olds Diesel had a block off plate on the rt exhaust manifold to make it dual exhaust. I think the 79 Cadillac Seville did too. You may find those manifolds somewhere.

csbuckn
01-06-10, 02:47 AM
So Ive been driving around for a while now and it runs nice. The main issues I have is that its idling way too high, probably around 11/1200rpm in neutral and I'm not sure if the air/fuel ratio is correct. But I dont know how to adjust these issues on the carb. The only thing I have messed with is the little screw on top of the carb but that didnt do anything. Is there a simple-ish way to adjust this carb?

Bro-Ham
01-07-10, 11:18 PM
Green Cadillac - - I did not realize you were such an engine swapping stud! Cooool!!! Hope your car comes out the way you want it!!! :)

greencadillacmatt
01-08-10, 12:42 AM
Thanks Bro-Ham! I got the intake manifold on today. Tomorrow I should have my new distributor on there. Then it's on to painting the oil pan and installing my oil pickup tube. After that it's the simple matter of swapping on my 307 (parts engine) accessories, and saving the cash for a nice pair of Hooker Headers. Then it's just little stuff until I cram it into the DeVille in the spring. :burn: I'll be sure to post pics once everything is painted. You may think the paint job is, um, unique...

csbuckn
01-09-10, 04:20 PM
The main issues I have is that its idling way too high, probably around 11/1200rpm in neutral

So I fixed the issue, it was those yellow silicone hoses. A couple of them melted to the block preventing choke from working right. A little product review: silicone hoses...They get warm and mushy and melt easily, they also cant handle vacuum pressure directly from the manifold. Anywho, now the motor is running great, Im excited. Not as powerful as the sbc but alot better than the 307. Maybe I can get some video up of the two lined up against our new 9C1.

greencadillacmatt
01-09-10, 04:32 PM
Hey cs, what kind of cam/performance products did you use on yours? Is it more of a stock buildup, or for some more oomph? Did you use the dished pistons, or did you spring for flat-top ones?

Also, congrats on the 9C1! I've always wanted an old cop car. Maybe I've watched the Blues Brothers too many times.

csbuckn
01-09-10, 07:42 PM
Just a stock build. I went with the torq/RV cam for better mileage, exhaust and thats it. Dished pistons, machine work, reground crank and true dual exhaust with no cats(got lucky a found a exhaust shop that will do no cats). Everything else is stock. I had an olds 350 diesel in the garage during the build and about a month after I got rid of it, someone tells me about the flat top pistons in there...live and learn. The cam has given me great fuel mileage, I just drove about 70 miles and only lost one bar on the digital gauge. But you know how that goes, I'll go to start it again and it will be at a quater tank!!

greencadillacmatt
02-14-10, 05:00 PM
So, I found these awesome headers on Summit Racing. My question is if they will fit without modification. Here is the link: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HOK-3901HKR/

They are for the 1968-1977 Oldsmibile Cutlass. The engine will be going into a 1984 Cadillac Coupe DeVille. It came from the factory with the HT4100, if that helps. Thanks in advance, they just seem like a good deal.

csbuckn
02-14-10, 05:25 PM
The guy on this thread said he had to modify some headers of the same year. Dont know if your looking at the same ones or not
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/rwd-19xx-1984-deville-fleetwood-1985/131212-1990-cadillac-brougham-307-olds-455-a-2.html

greencadillacmatt
02-14-10, 06:15 PM
Yes, but isn't the 455 a physically wider engine than the small-block Olds engines?

jayoldschool
02-14-10, 06:23 PM
Technically, it is taller. Really it is wider and taller since the block deck height is taller. Make sense?

csbuckn
02-14-10, 07:43 PM
I get it, they are the same width at the point where the manifolds mount.

greencadillacmatt
02-15-10, 04:39 AM
Ah, makes sense. Hey, Jay, any headers you'd recomend? Or what would I have to do to these to make them work? Should I just go with the stock stuff I have and weld up the crossover passage? Any suggestions are welcome and will be seriously considered. I'm in uncharted waters with this project, so any info is appreciated.

Stingroo
02-15-10, 05:13 AM
^ You should get on charted MSN waters. :P

csbuckn
02-15-10, 09:51 AM
When I was looking, I went to summit and looked at headers for a caprice. They were for a sbc but I tried to find some olds headers that followed the same pattern. I didnt look long, I went with manifolds. Probably your best bet to compare some olds headers to sbc caprice options.

greencadillacmatt
02-26-10, 03:07 AM
LADIES AND GENTLEMAN PLEASE, WOULD YOU BRING YOUR ATTENTION TO ME!

Ahem, sorry. Just excited. I finally have pictures of my painted engine! :cloud9:

So, without any further ado, here she is:

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/Stuff/OldsEngine001.jpg

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/Stuff/OldsEngine002.jpg

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/Stuff/OldsEngine003.jpg

:D :D :D

Stingroo
02-26-10, 08:38 AM
*Stingroo likes this*

Looks really good man. Come on now, let's see some ACCESSORIES! :highfive:

outsider
02-26-10, 09:41 AM
thomas the tank engine!!!

er...nice 350, can I have it? ;)

csbuckn
02-26-10, 11:30 AM
Nice, is that cadillac blue?

Stingroo
02-26-10, 12:13 PM
He said it was GM Corporate blue.

greencadillacmatt
02-26-10, 05:18 PM
^^ You are correct sir! Yes, GM Corporate Blue, and "Universal Gold" (the closest thing Duplicolor had to Oldsmobile Gold). I figured that since GM stopped with the whole "Golden Rocket" Olds engines in '74 or '75, and my '76 engine came blue, I'd change it up a little bit. I do have a Comp Cams camshaft in there, along with the CC valvetrain, so I thought it was Rocket worthy. Hence the gold and blue.

This is how it looked when I got it: http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/Stuff/0011.jpg

And yes, I'll be getting the carb, distributor, and the accessories on it very soon. More pictures then, of course. :D

greencadillacmatt
04-06-10, 01:39 AM
So I'm about to install the distributor. I know some engines like you to install it a few degrees advanced. Any of you Olds gurus know how far advanced before top-dead-center I should have the engine? Or should I just put it in at 0 degrees and adjust the timing once it's running? Paging csbuckn...

N0DIH
04-06-10, 02:32 AM
using computer controls or not?




So I'm about to install the distributor. I know some engines like you to install it a few degrees advanced. Any of you Olds gurus know how far advanced before top-dead-center I should have the engine? Or should I just put it in at 0 degrees and adjust the timing once it's running? Paging csbuckn...

greencadillacmatt
04-06-10, 02:35 AM
Vacuum Advance aaaaaaaall the way. And a regular 600 cfm Edelbrock carb.

csbuckn
04-06-10, 10:11 AM
I did mine by ear. It was way off 0 but I dont know how many degrees. I rotated it clockwise. I can take a pic if needed. Sorry, not much help.

cadillac_al
04-06-10, 11:27 AM
Just try to get as close as possible to TDC then adjust the timing. Timing lights are still very cheap. The Edlebrock 600 will choke off about 50hp but they look purdy.

N0DIH
04-06-10, 12:05 PM
When you stab it in, make sure it has room to turn the direction you need. Sucks when you put it in and it runs into the intake before you get to where you need to be.

I would shoot for 10 degrees with room to go down and up at initial ballpark. Are you running vacuum advance ported or manifold?

Think of the old vacuum adv timing/mech advance timing in the 3D maps (rpm vs vacuum vs timing degrees) the computer cars have:
Initial timing is min timing. Turning off vacuum adv for a sec, you have min timing, and a ramp up to max timing as rpm increases, simple 2D map (this is what racers use...). Then add in vacuum adv, this puts the previous 2D row to 100 kPA (or WOT, no vacuum), it now moves the map in a 3D mode, as it goes across the other axis (vacuum), so it brings in more advance in the light loads.

Not knowing your cam
So shoot for 10 degrees to start, a fairly fast mech curve, allow for 20 degrees mechanical for now, this gets you to 30 degrees WOT, and go no more than a 25 degree vacuum can. This will range you from 10 degrees to 30 WOT and 10 to 45 in low loads.

Just turning the diz to get more timing is ok, but you lose the bottom end or can have problems in the bottom end, or just not be ideal. This is where the good ole distributor machines were a dream to have....

DopeStar 156
04-06-10, 11:09 PM
Nice. I'm planning to make this same swap in the next few years with my 307. I'll keep checking in to see how this goes.

greencadillacmatt
04-07-10, 04:14 AM
So, put it in about 10* before TDC then? (I can adjust it later, I just want it to start and run decently for break-in.) And I am running the vacuum advance from the vac-port on the carb. Thanks for the help guys. :thumbsup:

RocketFast321
04-07-10, 04:22 AM
Vacuum Advance aaaaaaaall the way. And a regular 600 cfm Edelbrock carb.

Get a q-jet. :duck:

greencadillacmatt
04-07-10, 04:27 AM
I've got the origional, but it could probably use a rebuild. Plus, the Edelbrock has an electric choke. :thumbsup:

csbuckn
04-15-10, 02:06 AM
So I found out that my secondaries aren't opening on the q-jet. These are vacuum secondaries right? I checked the hoses and they all seem right. Looks like the vacuum is supplied off a port on the carb. Anybody know what could be causing the secondaries not to open?

cadillac_al
04-15-10, 08:24 AM
Can you open the top flaps with your finger with the engine turned off? Is the secondary throttle linkage moving? There is a little pawl on the choke side that holds the secondaries closed until the choke is fully opened. Sometimes the choke can be fully open and that little thing will still be holding the secondaries closed. My old trick is to put a little piece of vacuum hose on that thing so it will move out of the way sooner. Also make sure the rod from the vacuum break isn't adjusted too tight and holding the secondary flap closed while running.

csbuckn
04-15-10, 10:06 AM
thanks for the info. I'm leaning towards my choke not operating right. When its cold, the first flap isnt closed all the way. Also, it doesnt seem like its opening all the way either.

caddeville89
04-23-10, 01:30 PM
Any more luck? The 307 I just put in my '89 seems to have some bottom-end knock, and I am thinking of going with a 350 replacement instead of a 307, since I won't have to pay for it.

Stingroo
04-23-10, 01:44 PM
Do it! 350 ftw!

caddeville89
04-23-10, 02:49 PM
Do it! 350 ftw!

ftw??? Is that like "Fhut the wuck"?

jayoldschool
04-23-10, 03:08 PM
You have to be the last person on the internets that doesn't know about For The Win

caddeville89
04-23-10, 03:37 PM
OMG! Like, no WAAAAAAY!

DopeStar 156
04-23-10, 06:22 PM
I always thought it was **** The World.....

greencadillacmatt
04-24-10, 06:00 PM
Just a quick update, I'm almost ready to wheel this thing out of the basement and attach my 307's accessories. I just have two or three more things to do before then. Pics to come later...

RocketFast321
04-25-10, 03:51 PM
I've got the origional, but it could probably use a rebuild. Plus, the Edelbrock has an electric choke. :thumbsup:

You can't use a CCC q-jet on a vacuum advance.

greencadillacmatt
04-25-10, 04:59 PM
It's not a Computer-Controlled-Carb. It just has an electric choke on the Edelbrock. The q-jet that came off of it was a thermal-choke set-up, and not Computer-Controlled either. I should take carb pics one of these days.

gillianwhittaker@xtr
04-30-10, 07:42 PM
interesting thread--am in the throes of a non off frame resto with my 86 brougham .A couple of pics of the 425 olds toro motor to go in at some point .
Disregard date on pic -tiz current.
77 425(in one pic) staying as is .

regards
mike

greencadillacmatt
05-01-10, 02:01 AM
^That Olds 425 is GREAT. I thought about finding a 403, but I had limited funds and a very short time span to get one, so I found my Olds 350.

Also, anybody that has swapped one of these Olds 350's in, what engiine mounts did you guys use? I need some for mine, going into a 1984 Cadillac Coupe DeVille. Since it had the Olds 350 Diesel as an option that year, should I use those mounts, or...? Thanks guys!

csbuckn
05-01-10, 02:05 AM
I used the stock one for a 90 brougham 307.

Those runners on that 425 look massive. Looking nice.

greencadillacmatt
05-01-10, 02:09 AM
Hmm, so, would the 90 mounts for a 307 work on my 84? :hmm: Thanks!

csbuckn
05-01-10, 02:28 AM
Probably, I do know that the olds diesel looks exactly the same on the outside as the olds 350 so maybe that would be a better option. Just incase they are different from 84 to 90.

gillianwhittaker@xtr
05-01-10, 02:33 AM
Hmm, so, would the 90 mounts for a 307 work on my 84? :hmm: Thanks!


mmmm, I believe that you need to use matching frame /eng mounts for either a sbo or bbo.

As you are replacing a sbo with an sbo you should be fine .
mike

gillianwhittaker@xtr
05-01-10, 02:39 AM
I used the stock one for a 90 brougham 307.

Those runners on that 425 look massive. Looking nice.

CS -O4B intake-chosen because it`s low and hence may be able to sneak evrything under the hood.
Oldie but a goodie they say .Only drawback is it may not allow for an hei without risky manifold notching --just have to use pertronix I guess
mike

gillianwhittaker@xtr
05-01-10, 02:44 AM
[QUOTE=greencadillacmatt;2230360]^That Olds 425 is GREAT. I thought about finding a 403, but I had limited funds and a very short time span to get one, so I found my Olds 350.

QUOTE]
IMO I would rather have a 350 than a 403 -(windowed webs) and heaps more parts for the 350 and cheaper parts--even in this neck of the woods .

mike

csbuckn
07-08-10, 12:48 AM
I'm not gonna start another thread for this swap since there is enough info on this swap, I'll just report my progress here. We got a motor for the 88 that overheated on the vacation trip. Its another Olds 350 dated 77-80 with the spidered mains, big blocks were a little out of price range. Its the same exact that I put in the 90. This will probably be a very simular build, small cam but stock exhaust. We will probably use the 307 brackets this time. The heads look a little rough and have some broken exhaust bolts but hopefully they arent cracked. They go to the machine shop tomorrow. We may just have to steal Matts paint scheme on this one. The motor has been recently broken down and the previous owner was starting a rebuild that didnt involve the bottom half but its coming apart. He said this was a rocket but it only has the five bolt holes for the valve covers, I thought rockets had 10 holes? Here's some cell phone pics
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/IMAG0239.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/IMAG0241.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/IMAG0240.jpg

N0DIH
07-08-10, 12:59 AM
The 77-up started getting 5 bolt, the 10 bolt heads work with 5 bolt covers. You can drill them if you want them....GM went gasketless on the 307's, done properly, they don't leak.

Windowed mains are ok if you aren't racing. I put a 204/214 SSI cam in my 350, really too big for 2.56 gears (26" tall tires), really needed smaller for the low rpms it ran with. So be aware of it.




I'm not gonna start another thread for this swap since there is enough info on this swap, I'll just report my progress here. We got a motor for the 88 that overheated on the vacation trip. Its another Olds 350 dated 77-80 with the spidered mains, big blocks were a little out of price range. Its the same exact that I put in the 90. This will probably be a very simular build, small cam but stock exhaust. We will probably use the 307 brackets this time. The heads look a little rough and have some broken exhaust bolts but hopefully they arent cracked. They go to the machine shop tomorrow. We may just have to steal Matts paint scheme on this one. The motor has been recently broken down and the previous owner was starting a rebuild that didnt involve the bottom half but its coming apart. He said this was a rocket but it only has the five bolt holes for the valve covers, I thought rockets had 10 holes? Here's some cell phone pics
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/IMAG0239.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/IMAG0241.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/IMAG0240.jpg

gillianwhittaker@xtr
07-09-10, 01:37 AM
Someone back a few threads was asking about the header issue.
I think headers for a 78-88 cutlass fit .
The ones I found were Hedman--expensive \
maybe hookers will fit ?
mike

csbuckn
07-09-10, 03:07 AM
So I'm having some trouble with my olds motor in the 90. I suspect an intake vacuum leak because of black residue around some parts of the valley pan. I would like to get rid of the valley pan and use regular intake gaskets with an edelbrock intake, has anyone got rid of the valley pan before? Should I mill the intake down some? Not a big fan of the valley pan.

gillianwhittaker@xtr
07-09-10, 03:43 AM
So I'm having some trouble with my olds motor in the 90. I suspect an intake vacuum leak because of black residue around some parts of the valley pan. I would like to get rid of the valley pan and use regular intake gaskets with an edelbrock intake, has anyone got rid of the valley pan before? Should I mill the intake down some? Not a big fan of the valley pan.

About 50/50 division on using/not using the "turkey tray"from all the threads n posts I have read.The best rationale I have heard for retaining the tray is that it helps keep the intake mani. a little cooler.
The reason people get rid of it is improper /difficult initial alignment. Must also have sealer around all water ports as per C S M.
Those who are believers in the tray,ensure they align the bolt hole depressions with the head holes ,use rtv sealant each end of the manifold instead of rubber seals provided and carefully place the manifold .You cannot reuse a turkey tray .
mike

gillianwhittaker@xtr
07-09-10, 03:47 AM
The 77-up started getting 5 bolt, the 10 bolt heads work with 5 bolt covers. You can drill them if you want them....GM went gasketless on the 307's, done properly, they don't leak.

Windowed mains are ok if you aren't racing. I put a 204/214 SSI cam in my 350, really too big for 2.56 gears (26" tall tires), really needed smaller for the low rpms it ran with. So be aware of it.


I can`t see the wire gauze in the oil pick up on ya pink motor ??
right or wrong ??myopic /hyperopic/blind
mike

csbuckn
07-09-10, 04:22 AM
presbyopic!!:D Its there but dirty, it will be cleaned at the machine shop. I may do the fiber gaskets. Now I got to decide if I'm gonna take out the exhaust gaskets.

gillianwhittaker@xtr
07-09-10, 06:40 AM
presbyopic . I hate it when I am found out .Respect your elders.:D

cadillac_al
07-09-10, 07:29 AM
I used a fiber gasket once years ago and it was kind of tricky getting everything lined up correctly. The fiber gasket is thicker and the intake doesn't set down in the valley like it should. I think the correct way would have been to mill the intake slightly and that may have been recommended in the instructions. I finally got it on anyway and drove it with no problems. I don't remember if I had to use silicon instead of the end gaskets but probably had to. The last couple times I changed an Olds intake I used the turkey tray and had no problems. Like Gillian said it's a 50/50 proposition and I don't have a real strong preference either way myself.

csbuckn
08-29-10, 02:35 AM
So we finally got a motor. Its been rebuilt but never ran...5 years ago. So we are gonna open it up and see what needs to be replaced. He worked at the machine shop so he did everything himself. Its an old rocket motor with a stock cam. He painted it red, white and blue. Just glad we got the motor, he was ducking and dodging for 2 months but my consistant calls payed off.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/IMAG0133.jpg

outsider
08-29-10, 09:41 AM
nice man! now get to work on it :)

csbuckn
09-01-10, 11:56 PM
I got a quick question. When I put the olds 350 in my car, I set the spark plug gap to .070. The emission sticker says .060. Do I set it to the sticker or to stock engine specs for a 77 olds 350? The reason I asked is because I took the plugs out today for a little inspection and redid them from .070 to .060 and it seems to run better. I havent driven it longer then a test run around the block but it seemed to idle better and have more power then before. I know it seems like I answered my own question but just want to see what ya'll think. I think I'm supposed to set it to the emission sticker for the car since its a computer controlled car.

Another thing. Today on a ride in the car, I got a lot of smoke(burning oil) out of the passanger side of the exhaust(true duals) the whole ride of 20/30 minutes. This is the original reason I pulled the plugs but after gaping them and putting them back in, no more smoke. None of the plugs were wet with anything and seemed to be in good condition. Not sure what that was from but hopefully it doesnt come back. Any ideas?

N0DIH
09-02-10, 03:25 AM
I would honestly run the gap closer to 0.045" to 0.050", no more. Run std copper plugs, AC Delco or Autolights. The copper plugs are a very very good plug, my Olds 350 and 307 would commonly last 40-50k on stock plugs and still be in great shape. Sounds like a ring might have hung up, either turned around and all the rings lined up (rare, but happens) or a deposit or something got the ring stuck. Rislone is good stuff for unsticking rings. I almost never recommend additives, there are only 2, Rislone and GM EOS. And rare to use....
I got a quick question. When I put the olds 350 in my car, I set the spark plug gap to .070. The emission sticker says .060. Do I set it to the sticker or to stock engine specs for a 77 olds 350? The reason I asked is because I took the plugs out today for a little inspection and redid them from .070 to .060 and it seems to run better. I havent driven it longer then a test run around the block but it seemed to idle better and have more power then before. I know it seems like I answered my own question but just want to see what ya'll think. I think I'm supposed to set it to the emission sticker for the car since its a computer controlled car.

Another thing. Today on a ride in the car, I got a lot of smoke(burning oil) out of the passanger side of the exhaust(true duals) the whole ride of 20/30 minutes. This is the original reason I pulled the plugs but after gaping them and putting them back in, no more smoke. None of the plugs were wet with anything and seemed to be in good condition. Not sure what that was from but hopefully it doesnt come back. Any ideas?

csbuckn
09-02-10, 11:08 AM
Why run smaller gap then the sticker? Less strain on the Ignition components? The smoke does sound like a ring issue, hope it stays away.

N0DIH
09-02-10, 05:49 PM
Usually smoking on accel is rings, on decel is valve guides. Narrower gap ensures that the spark is solid and doesn't get put out and cause a miss. One of the RV shops with a RV Chassis dyno found 18 hp on a 8.1L BBC by going from 0.060 gap to 0.045. Gained power. And this is with a coil near plug ignition. So it is important to have a gap that is going to work right. The "method" to set PROPER gap is to do an controlled acceleration run, say 40-60. Not start at 40 and mash the gas, but start at say 20 and start the stopwatch at 40 and stop it at 60. Do this 3x and get a consistent acceleration run. Then narrow gap 0.005", and run again, if faster, narrow again. Then if faster, narrow again, if slower, the widen 0.002 and note if faster or slower. Once you settle on the gap, you have the best gap for the application. Not a generic emissions gap that is wide to provide good idle emissions, but sacrifice the WOT emissions (which aren't tested) and power.
Why run smaller gap then the sticker? Less strain on the Ignition components? The smoke does sound like a ring issue, hope it stays away.

csbuckn
09-08-10, 12:33 AM
Thanks for the info. I may have to regap them and see how it goes since I'll be sending the manifolds back to the shop.

Got the motor out of the 88 last night. Man, was is toasted. The motor has my whole garage smelling like extremely burnt oil. The coolant is almost grey and the motor even looks depressed. Should be installing the new motor around next payday.
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/100_9016.jpg

greencadillacmatt
09-08-10, 05:54 AM
The coolant is almost grey and the motor even looks depressed.

Wow, it is possible for an engine to look sad. Aw. :(

The-Dullahan
09-10-10, 12:35 AM
Wow, it is possible for an engine to look sad. Aw. :(

Your 350 is sad. She wants to go cruising around, but she can't.

greencadillacmatt
09-10-10, 01:48 AM
^Ouch. I have tomorrow off from school and work. I'm doing plugs and wires on the Olds and then testing my engine mounts. If they agree to it, it might be wired and fired at the college as a project vehicle.

csbuckn
09-10-10, 02:59 AM
Matt, is your edel carb a 1406?

greencadillacmatt
09-10-10, 03:08 AM
Matt, is your edel carb a 1406?

I can check when I'm in there tomorrow. :)

csbuckn
09-15-10, 03:11 PM
So ever since I've put the 350 in my car, its been giving me exhaust leak after leak. I read around on the Olds forum and found that stock Olds motors dont have exhaust gaskets(except certain 307s) so I'm trying it. You have to get the manifolds plained so these were done on a sandbelt with 80 grit. Here are some before and after pics

You can see plenty of leaks
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/100_9044.jpg

A close up of why they leak
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/100_9043.jpg

Here they are $60 later
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/100_9055.jpg

The motor was running rich because I didnt have the O2 sensor hooked up. Hopefully this will solve the high idle and dieseling.
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/100_9057.jpg

And here is the cap in better detail. Its a short exhaust pipe with a frost plug welded in.
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/100_9059.jpg

outsider
09-15-10, 03:28 PM
nice. good luck getting rid of them leaks man! $60 isn't too bad.

csbuckn
09-18-10, 01:05 AM
So I got them in without gaskets, not good. The leak was worse, mainly the passanger side. Then I put the gaskets in and now its great. There is a tiny leak that I can deal with coming from passanger side. Also, the oxygen sensor has solved the high idle and dieseling issues too. The O2 sensor mod on the manifold almost didnt work, it put the sensor close to the frame and I had to modify the wires coming out the sensor to get it to fit. If I do keep the car, the next things to do are the top, windshield, get rid of dual exhaust for stock setup and paint it.

csbuckn
09-23-10, 12:46 AM
So I finally decided to take the intake off. Thank god I did. It was leaking all over the place because I didnt put any sealant around any of the ports and the rear seal popped out. Put the new valley pan on with sealant around all the ports and gasket maker instead of front and rear seals. Havent driven it, letting the sealant set.

Here's the old valley pan. All the black spots are leaks and the front and rear seals split at the end. One even split the long way, where the screwdriver is. Just think, I was gonna sell it like this...
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/102_9075.jpg

Here's the intake ports, all the intake ports are damp with oily build up.
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/102_9069.jpg

But I do have a question about the motor we are putting in the 88. The original intake has these tubes that go down under the carbs front ports, the new motor doesnt have these spots and I dont plan on putting them on. Does anybody know what they are for and what would change with not using them?
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/102_9066.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad196/csbuckn/102_9067.jpg

greencadillacmatt
09-23-10, 12:57 AM
That looks a LOT like the heated carb choke that came stock on my 350. The tubes supply hot air to open and close the choke on those types of carbs.
It was an odd design, and I think they were replaced by electric chokes later on.

csbuckn
09-23-10, 02:30 AM
The hot air choke is in the pics too(under the fill tube) but I was talking about the brass cylinders that are screwed inside the intake manifold.