: V2 Throttle control problem



bergstpg
01-09-09, 06:17 PM
Before I start - this car is a beast!! Love it!! Kicks the tires off the Jeep SRT-8 I traded in last year. May not have bought it without support from this forum - being how the economy has been. Thanks.

Ok - bad news. I live in Minnesota and have put around 170 miles on the car since late Dec. For the most part - the temperature has been near or below zero since then. My problem is the car gets really jumpy around 30 miles an hour and after I take my foot off the accelerator (I know - what am I thinking :thepan: ) - just over 1000 RPMs and when the car is still cold. Its like it wants to accelerate for a split second, then not the next split sec. On off on off etc. If I accelerate again - it goes back to smooth acceleration. After the car warms-up, it seems to not be as jumpy. Another note - as you can see by the number of miles - I haven't even gone through the break-in period and am hoping it will go away soon.

I baby the car for the most part - stays in garage and try to follow the recommended break-in recommendations. One upgrade I have done is to add snow tires, but I am not sure how this could be causing my problem.

Thoughts?

Thanks a ton in advance!!!

wait4me
01-09-09, 06:21 PM
Press the traction control once, then twice real quick and on the second click, hold down the button untill it says stability track off. Does the problem go away? If so, you may have moisture/ something messing with one of your sensors. There is ice on the ground while you are having this issue right? Be careful shutting off the stability system, when it is off there is NO correction...

bergstpg
01-09-09, 06:41 PM
I will give it a shot. I am going to fast for ice to be causing the traction control to be making adjustments during idle but it might be something tied to it.

Not only do we get to deal with ice, but cold roads. Tires have a hard time gripping this time a year. Thanks.

LV_V
01-09-09, 08:28 PM
Before I start - this car is a beast!! Love it!! Kicks the tires off the Jeep SRT-8 I traded in last year. May not have bought it without support from this forum - being how the economy has been. Thanks.

Welcome! You will be blown away with the amount of useful, free information the collective minds of this forum will provide. :thumbsup:

Razorecko
01-09-09, 08:35 PM
I'm guessing you have the auto 6spd correct ? I had a similar issue with a previous car and its not so much the throttle cable as it actually is the Traction Control Module on an automatic car.

OldDrummer55
01-09-09, 09:10 PM
Is the traction control compensating for traction slipping on the cold pavement/ice?

bergstpg
01-10-09, 08:09 PM
No - the road is completely clean - just cold. Shouldn't be the problem.

When I turned off the Stability Control - problem went away. Calling the dealership Monday. :mad:

Am I the only one experiencing this?

Thanks.

jvp
01-10-09, 09:14 PM
No - the road is completely clean - just cold. Shouldn't be the problem.

Depends on how cold and what snow tires. Which tires did you add to the car? The Sottozeros? Or some other brand? What size? Stock sizes or different?

It may be that the snow tires that you've added, even though made for cold weather and cruddy roads, are still a little too hard for the car to deal with. On cold, dry roads, there may still be enough tire slip that it's causing your traction control to kick in.

Remember that tires get harder in the cold, even winter tires. Harder tires have less traction on dry roads than softer ones do. Combine that with the fact that your engine is producing mountains of torque in the freezing cold air... it makes perfect sense that you're engaging the traction control.

Here's another test: leave everything on, but put the car in manual mode. Start in 2nd or 3rd gear gently, and see what happens.

jas

GMX322V S/C
01-10-09, 11:20 PM
No - the road is completely clean - just cold. Shouldn't be the problem.

When I turned off the Stability Control - problem went away. Calling the dealership Monday. :mad:

Am I the only one experiencing this?

Thanks.There is at least one other report of surge with foot off accelerator in cold ambient: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/1702986-post233.html

bergstpg
01-11-09, 12:22 AM
Really?? The problem occurs at speeds of 30 or 40 miles an hour - with the car in idle. I can't believe that it is losing grip then :tisk:.

The tires are Pirelli SOTTOZERO W240's. 255/40 R19's in the front and 285/40 R19's in the rear. $1700 at Discount Tire :thepan:. They picked the size from corporate recommendations.

Vrocks
01-11-09, 01:21 AM
No - the road is completely clean - just cold. Shouldn't be the problem.

When I turned off the Stability Control - problem went away. Calling the dealership Monday. :mad:

Am I the only one experiencing this?

Thanks.
I noticed the same thing here in PA when I test drove it. The temp was in the 30s and half throttle at low speed was breaking them free a little, so I just turned off the TC.

It sounds like your car is more sensitive than the one I drove so it may actually have a problem.

jvp
01-11-09, 01:24 AM
Really?? The problem occurs at speeds of 30 or 40 miles an hour - with the car in idle. I can't believe that it is losing grip then

In what gear?

Did you try starting in 2nd or 3rd like I suggested?

jas

bergstpg
01-12-09, 01:42 PM
Haven't driven it yet - weather has been too crappy lately. Will test soon - however - it will be getting down to -17 below in Minneapolis this week :eek:. Not sure I want to expose it to those conditions.

bergstpg
01-14-09, 11:42 AM
Its going into the shop tomorrow afternoon. Hope to have something by tomorrow night.

bergstpg
01-15-09, 12:43 AM
Tonight - check engine light came on :bomb:. Onstar diaognostics linked it a "miss firing" Who knows. 210 miles. I am trying to stay positive. Am I the only one with a black cloud floating over my V? Still going to the shop tomorrow.

Razorecko
01-15-09, 12:49 AM
^ a missfire ?!? - I'd keep on eye on that after they reset it. Keep in mind very importantly that you have to make sure that every issue you have with the vehicle the dealership service dept. documents and that you have a copy of. If you ever decide to lemon a vehicle you need to prove that the problem initially came about within the first 12,000 miles of the vehicles life.

bergstpg
01-15-09, 01:17 AM
I hope not. I have been waiting a long time for this car and have yet to be able to see what it can do - since the weather has been so crappy. Ok - I am getting off my soap box.

darjae
01-15-09, 01:36 AM
I hope not. I have been waiting a long time for this car and have yet to be able to see what it can do - since the weather has been so crappy. Ok - I am getting off my soap box.

I wish you luck and hope that it's an easy fix. I've not had any issues with mine (knocks wood). Again, I hope for a quick and easy resolution as I know how long I waited for this car.....

bergstpg
01-15-09, 07:37 PM
No quick fix yet. In fact - after a half day of investigating - they have only come up with guesses. What they did tell me is that the Check Engine light is linked to the miss-firing of the spark-plugs on two of the cyclindars (50 or so one one and 20 or so on another). One option they are looking at is to replace the spark-plugs. I guess this a four hour deal - which includes the removal of the super-charger. I am not a fan of this option.:suspect: Fortunately they are going to try to call Cadillac headcourters to get some advice first. I told them to call me before dismantling my car, so, if anybody has had this issue and knows the fix - please respond.

In addition, I was told there is a recall on the V2. Recall 09003. Something to do with the positive battery cable coming in contact with the ground - or something like that. I don't think this is linked.

BLAH!!

RapidRob
01-15-09, 08:09 PM
No quick fix yet. In fact - after a half day of investigating - they have only come up with guesses. What they did tell me is that the Check Engine light is linked to the miss-firing of the spark-plugs on two of the cyclindars (50 or so one one and 20 or so on another). One option they are looking at is to replace the spark-plugs. I guess this a four hour deal - which includes the removal of the super-charger. I am not a fan of this option.:suspect: Fortunately they are going to try to call Cadillac headcourters to get some advice first. I told them to call me before dismantling my car, so, if anybody has had this issue and knows the fix - please respond.

In addition, I was told there is a recall on the V2. Recall 09003. Something to do with the positive battery cable coming in contact with the ground - or something like that. I don't think this is linked.

BLAH!!

Very sorry to hear of the issues with your new V2! Hopefully when this is resolved, it will be the last issue you experience.

But referring to this link, http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-2009-lsa-6-2l-superchar/ I can't really see how it would take 4 hours to change a couple of spark plugs.:confused: Looks like they are well below the SC assembly to me ... but who knows. Good luck!

Rob

Razorecko
01-15-09, 08:34 PM
If you have that many misfires i'm almost going to have to say that your motor is toast somehow. If that is the case than be ready to demand an entirely new vehicle as they will try to sit it at the dealer for 3 months while they basically rip your motor out. Hopefully i'm wrong and its something really funny.

bergstpg
01-16-09, 06:06 PM
Day 2 in the shop: Still looking for the issue :hmm:. After some limited troubleshooting they have decided to replace the spark plugs. I was wrong earlier about the time required to change. He said it will take 1.7 hours - according to the Warrentee book. They are banking on this to fix the throttle and miss firing(check engine light) issues. Maybe tomorrow. I will get my car back - not holding my breath.

poor-sha
01-16-09, 10:11 PM
Good luck and hope they get it fixed soon. I think I met your salesman today, did you buy from Bob? I'd PM you but I can't seem to send PMs yet on this forum.

bergstpg
01-19-09, 06:48 PM
SOLVED!! Replacement of spark plugs fixed the problem. Thank god that it wasn't a larger issue - so those that were in the same camp as I - u can now breathe easier today. :thumbsup:

RapidRob
01-19-09, 06:56 PM
SOLVED!! Replacement of spark plugs fixed the problem. Thank god that it wasn't a larger issue - so those that were in the same camp as I - u can now breathe easier today. :thumbsup:

Good to hear - congrats:thumbsup:

If it were not a warrantee repair - are the plugs something one can change on their own? Are they reachable without much trouble on the LSA?

Rob

Razorecko
01-20-09, 11:28 AM
Phew, thats a lucky break man. I'm sure thats a heavy load off your back !

bergstpg
01-20-09, 01:00 PM
Not even a half mile outside the service center - problem still there :mad:. They fixed the check engine light and miss-firing issue, but the throttle issue still exists. I made sure the service center manager felt the issue himself before I left. He told be that they would be calling Cadillac today for more advise.

His initial thought was the problem I was having was similar to others he has experienced in bulletin #08-07-30-039 - Automatic Transmission Service Fast Learn Adapts (SFL) Characteristics. In other words, the shift point is right where I normally drive the car - however - I am skeptical since I am able to get the problem to happen over a range of speeds over 30 MPH.

I did some more testing on my own. I noticed that this problem went away once I removed the TC - where in the past I thought it needed the Stability Control to be disabled. Another thing I noticed is that it seemed to not be as obvious - or may not even happen - once the car is warmed up. Our weather has been so cold lately, that I over-looked this posibility. Last night it was 20 degrees above zero - one of the highest temperatures I have seen since it has been failing.

So in summary, my money is the issue is tied to the Traction Control, Stability Control, and/or the cold weather. Not sure if the spark-plug (miss-firing) issue is tied, but could be to a decrease in amps through the system with the TC and/or SC enabled. Maybe I just need to drink more and then I won't notice the issue. :alchi:

bergstpg
01-22-09, 04:43 PM
Back into the shop today for another round of diagnostics.:thepan:

On the spark plug issue - the techs working on my car have been asked to ship the original spark-plugs from my car directly to an Engineer at GM. It seems to have gotten their attention. I asked for a report of their analysis and will post once received.

bergstpg
01-22-09, 09:47 PM
I added this note to another thread - but want to continue here till resolution.

The latest is the snow tire size is slightly larger than the stock tires and they think this might be the issue. Stay tuned.

dvandentop
01-22-09, 11:02 PM
I added this note to another thread - but want to continue here till resolution.

The latest is the snow tire size is slightly larger than the stock tires and they think this might be the issue. Stay tuned.



are they just wider or are they taller tires.

RapidRob
01-22-09, 11:09 PM
I added this note to another thread - but want to continue here till resolution.

The latest is the snow tire size is slightly larger than the stock tires and they think this might be the issue. Stay tuned.

Which winters do you have installed - Sottozero Winter 240's ?

Rob

Razorecko
01-22-09, 11:39 PM
There is no way the tires are the cause of this. The Cts-v isnt an awd vehicle thats affected from different wheel sizes.

Hogg
01-23-09, 11:04 AM
The missfire could be an issue calibration as could the throttle issue. These cars are brand new, and as everything nowdays, is rushed into production.

As GM gets some in the field info coming back from its customers, the updates to the ECM calibrations can be made to fix the numerous drivability complaints that will inevitably ensue teh release of a new vehicle.

This is the sole reason I dont suggest buying of the 1st year of a new vehicle run.

You can enter your VIN into this GM website and check for new calibrations for your vehicle. I guarentee there is/will be a flood of new calibrations.
http://tis2web.service.gm.com/tis2web

Good luck with your car. These V's are awesome cars.
peace
Hog

bergstpg
01-23-09, 11:30 AM
Remove this thread?? Do you work for GM or something??:bighead:

I am reporting as I get it. I didn't spend 72k on a Cadillac to roll over dead and expect this car when I am driving a car with the check engine light on and the car surging in idle. Back to those that may be interested.

The tires are Pirelli SOTTOZERO W240's. 255/40 R19's in the front and 285/40 R19's in the rear - so I believe they are a little taller than stock. Again, I didn't pick them out - Discount Tire's corporate did.

Hogg
01-23-09, 11:44 AM
Remove this thread?? Do you work for GM or something??:bighead:

I am reporting as I get it. I didn't spend 72k on a Cadillac to roll over dead and expect this car when I am driving a car with the check engine light on and the car surging in idle. Back to those that may be interested.

The tires are Pirelli SOTTOZERO W240's. 255/40 R19's in the front and 285/40 R19's in the rear - so I believe they are a little taller than stock. Again, I didn't pick them out - Discount Tire's corporate did.

What, no I simply screwed a post, and dont know how to delete it.
I want my screwed up POST deleted, not the THIS THREAD. Please re read.

No one is telling you to roll over an play dead. You should get an awesome car as it is a Caddy.

I am trying to help you by explaining the way GM issues recalibration for customer compliants.


BTW I am very interested in your problem.

And no I dont work for GM anymore.

Whats with your attitude? I'm just trying to help.

peace
Hog

urbanski
01-23-09, 11:50 AM
hogg, got it

OP, relax w/ hogg. thanks.

bergstpg
01-23-09, 12:36 PM
Sorry Hogg - my bad. I miss understood what was going on. :grouphug:

bergstpg
01-23-09, 04:53 PM
Service tech called back again. They working with Cadillac to change a setting in the computer to compensate for the 5 mm change in height of the snow tires. They are going this route because they don't have any tires to swap without swapping out my wheel's snows with the orginals - don't have an extra set of rims yet. He also said he was 95% sure this was the issue since everything else has check out.

Does anybody else have snow tires? I know they do. I believe there isn't a snow tire built to exactly the same size, so there should be others having this issue - if this is truely the right hypothesis.

wait4me
01-23-09, 05:17 PM
Ok your problem is because you changed the rear tire size and now it is tooo far off from the front to rear and that is why the system thinks you are loosing traction. Stability control is not kicking in, just traction control.

Stock tire size for the front is, 255 - 40 - 19 which is exactly 746.10 revolutions per mile and 84.92 inches in curcumference.
Stock tire size for the rear is, 285 - 35 - 19 which is exactly 751.02 revolutions per mile and 84.37 inches in curcumference.

That is releatively close in terms of pulses per mile so they have it probably set up to be very close and just allow a little bit of slop before it will start seeing the difference and will start thinking it is loosing traction. Obviously they have to set that "GAP" to never happen in 200 mph. Because the faster you go, the more the difference between the front and rear tire pulses will be.

Now, your new rear tire size is messing with you.

The tire size you now have being 285 - 40 - 19 is 720.9 revolutions per mile. Way off in terms of pulses per mile of the wheel abs sensors. They will be close till about 28mph and still within range, but then as you go past that point, it will start to be too far off from the safe zone and will then think you are loosing traction on the front 2 tires.



Changing the tire size in the computer will not fix your problem i dont think. It would be an abs adjustment, and by changing this to fix your error would result in LESS than ideal traction control when you change your tires back to the summer ones..

The Tony Show
01-23-09, 05:31 PM
^ ......and there's the answer.

Kadonny
01-23-09, 06:03 PM
Does anybody else have snow tires? I know they do. I believe there isn't a snow tire built to exactly the same size, so there should be others having this issue - if this is truely the right hypothesis.


Tirerack has the right size in the Sottozero for the rears. 285-35-19.

Razorecko
01-23-09, 06:37 PM
short-throw has on winter tires and he has no issues. I'm still firm on the belief that it doesnt have anything to do with the tires.

jwa999
01-23-09, 06:45 PM
Been driving my new cts-v for a few weeks now. almost 2000 miles. One thing I notice is that when you downshift, it does rev matching, which causes the car to jump forward. I ammainly used to manual transmissions and will always break by downshifting. Not with this car, there is no point at lower speeds. It jumps a little bit. Perhaps this is what you are experiencing when you take your foot of the accelerator. If it's in automatic mode, i know it will sometimes downshift when you slow down. Perhaps it depends how your driving style programmed it. Personally, i don't drive in automatic mode much. It is just not very responsive. My wife's m45 automatic transmission is much better. I never struggle with it, and usually only use manual mode to downshift for breaking.

bergstpg
01-23-09, 06:46 PM
I guess it really sounds like this is it. If it is, I hope there isn't anybody planning to burn rubber off their rear tires otherwise you will start to lose throttle control the more you burn off. If +5mm is measurable at 28 MPH, which the speed seems to match my test, -5mm could be similar. I would imagine -2.5mm is more likely for tread loss - would that be seen at twice the speed (60 MPH). Probably not, but at some speed higher than 28 MPH you will likely see this on all cars if the rears wear more the the fronts. But more wear to the rear tire will never happen in the V2. :histeric:

I have asked Discount Tire to swap out my oversized tire - still waiting for a response from them. At the same time, Cadillac is probably going to want to use my car as a test subject so they can put out a bulletin, however, if this is the fix - to adjust the computer - I don't want to do this twice a year. Still going to push for the right sized rears.:yup:

Stay tuned. Probably won't hear anything more until Monday at the earliest.

bergstpg
01-23-09, 06:51 PM
jwa999 - My car does the samething in manual mode, but, the problem happens in automatic and manual mode, and does it until I either step on the gas or the brake. In addition, it isn't in the process of shifting gears - since it is in idle when noticed. Another point to note is that sometimes the car will not let me turn off the TC. I push - hold - no hold - put car in park - etc and it won't turn it off. When this happens I have to turn the car off before I can disable it again. And yes, it has the uncontrollable throttle during this situation as well (same speed around 35).

jwa999
01-23-09, 07:12 PM
Yikes. Well good to know. I usually run my rear tires down till the canvas shows, so I am forewarned when this problem shows up due to several mm worn off the tire. Hope it won't force me to change all 4 tires at the same time!
In that case I guess one could get a second set of rims to keep slitely worn front tires around.
Never had a problem on my 2002 AWD Porsche turbo, but was thinking about a second set of wheels since in texas the annual inspection sometimes comes at a time where there's plenty of rubber left on the rears, but they won't pass.

Razorecko
01-23-09, 08:08 PM
Tire wear affecting the way a vehicle traction system works is ridiculous. The only thing tire wear will affect is how well you have traction on the street. And not start fritzing out your cars computer system.

wait4me
01-23-09, 10:13 PM
The tires are not just 5 mm different in size.

Tire size is tread x sidewall diameter. So if it is 285 40 19, the tire is 710.60MM the 285 35 19 is 682MM Which is almost an inch difference from the 2 tires.

Hogg
01-24-09, 11:21 PM
Sorry Hogg - my bad. I miss understood what was going on. :grouphug:

No problem. Its all good, I hope you get your issue fixed.

peace
Hog

bergstpg
01-27-09, 11:23 AM
Cadillac service told me yesterday Cadillac Engineers think the car isn't sensing the tire size like it is suppose to - yes - they said the car is suppose to sense the tire size.:helpless: The service center is waiting to hear back from the engineers on a patch of somesorts to the software/firmware. I also got Discount Tire to order the correct tire size for the car. I will wait to replace until after this issue is resolved.

jvp
01-27-09, 11:39 AM
Cadillac service told me yesterday Cadillac Engineers think the car isn't sensing the tire size like it is suppose to - yes - they said the car is suppose to sense the tire size.:helpless:

Actually, don't be too surprised by that. Starting with the C5, certain GM vehicles could correct for different tire sizes, assuming certain conditions were met. Mainly, that the rear tires were still larger in diameter than the front ones. How do they do it? Got me. But I saw it with my own eyes, several times.

Example: I used to shod my C5 with 17" Kumho R-compound tires when going to the race track. The stock rears were 18, if you remember. So, this changed the rear tire diameter a bit (about half an inch or so). Which would screw up the speedometer for.. a while.

Someone wrote a spreadsheet that allowed you to plug in rear tire diameters and RPMs for the Corvette, and figure out what the resulting vehicle speed would be. Sure enough, redlined in 4th gear, I was doing almost 147MPH (indicated) on the track. And the spreadsheet verified that same speed, given the new tire sizes and RPMs.

Somehow, the car just figured it out.

jas

bergstpg
01-28-09, 04:23 PM
The right sized tires go on tonight. I will report the result later tonight.

At the same time, Cadillac is still troubleshooting the issue at their site and will be getting back to my service center. Once this info is available - I will post as well.

bergstpg
01-28-09, 11:05 PM
Tires replaced - problem gone!! :highfive:

Mean while - I am still waiting on a report from the spark plug failure and a possible update for the possible tire size monitoring.

UAEmonster
07-02-09, 06:28 PM
bergstpg ..... bro , am having the same problem now (( Check Engine )) light came on , just today .., and i cant start the car remotely .., but i can normaly start it , so what do u think is the prob ??? saprk plugs !??! plz help