: EGR or something worse? Please help! '96 SLS



CaddyQueen30
01-08-09, 06:51 PM
I have a 1996 SLS with about 86K on it.

Ok *sigh* My error codes were P0300 (Engine misfire) and P1406 (EGR Valve Pintle Position Circuit). Bear with me guys...I'm a rookie. So I changed the plugs out using the ACDelco platinums, plug wires were only about a year old and still in great condition, threw in a new air filter and - hahahaha - that I was going to clean my EGR. The P0300 code was cleared, so I guess the plug change took care of it? But I'm still getting the P1406.
Here's what my car is doing: When I get in to start it up in the morning - when I havent driven it in 8 or more hours - it starts fine. If I drive it anywhere and turn it off and leave it sitting for more than 5 minutes, when I try to start it again, the ignition is turning over (think ja-ja-ja-ja-ja-ja said real fast...thats the sound), but it takes a good 5 to 10 seconds to catch and start! Here's the kicker: If I get back in within 5 minutes of shutting it off, I can get back in and it starts up no problem. If I wait any longer than 5 minutes, I go through the whole ja-ja-ja-ja thing. :thepan:

Ok, problem # 2: When I run it up a hill (unavoidable since I live on one), then come to a stop, putting the car in park, the idle goes crazy. It revs a little, then slows to almost sounding like it might die, then revs again, then slows again etc... a few times. Now wait, because if you read above, it does this revving/slowing thing right after it goes through the starting issue I'm talking about too. I havent noticed that it does this when I'm still in gear (like being at a light after coming up a hill). Pretty much just in park I think.
It seems to me that it might be connected.

One last thing: (and you thought I was done!) When I accelerate (only when cold) alot at once, SOMETIMES it hesitates before it accelerates...but not always.

I really need help! Could all this be related to one particular issue? I'm so frustrated!! Any help would be sincerely appreciated.

Ranger
01-08-09, 07:22 PM
OK, first off I know you are new. Tech Tips is for posting repair tips. I'll move this to the Northstar section for you.

Your problem sounds like a leak FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator). Remove the silver beauty cover and locate the FPR on the fuel rail. It is a small canister with a vacuum hose on it. Pull the vacuum hose while at idle and look for any fuel leakage from the nipple. If there is any, the FPR needs to be replaced.

CaddyQueen30
01-08-09, 08:11 PM
OK, first off I know you are new. Tech Tips is for posting repair tips. I'll move this to the Northstar section for you.

Your problem sounds like a leak FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator). Remove the silver beauty cover and locate the FPR on the fuel rail. It is a small canister with a vacuum hose on it. Pull the vacuum hose while at idle and look for any fuel leakage from the nipple. If there is any, the FPR needs to be replaced.

So you think all of these things are related?

Ranger
01-08-09, 08:24 PM
Quite possibly. A leaky FPR is putting unmetered raw fuel into the intake manifold. Kind of like a choke on a carburetor, it will aid in cold starts and hinder hot starts. Exactly what you described. Might also cause problem #2 & #3. Check the FPR. If bad, replace it and see if it cures all 3 issues. If not, we'll go from there.

CaddyQueen30
01-08-09, 08:43 PM
I'll make it happen and let you know. YOU'RE AWESOME!


Quite possibly. A leaky FPR is putting unmetered raw fuel into the intake manifold. Kind of like a choke on a carburetor, it will aid in cold starts and hinder hot starts. Exactly what you described. Might also cause problem #2 & #3. Check the FPR. If bad, replace it and see if it cures all 3 issues. If not, we'll go from there.

Ranger
01-08-09, 08:56 PM
Ah shucks! :o

CaddyQueen30
01-09-09, 06:28 PM
Did I tell you you're awesome? Thats totally what it was! Now...............heh heh...can I replace the FPR or should I take it to a shop? I am pretty mechanically inclined.

Ranger
01-09-09, 07:54 PM
Well, if you are mechanically inclined it is a pretty easy swap. Bleed off the fuel pressure first. Easiest way is to remove the cap on the service port and hold a rag over it while pressing the schreader valve. Just like letting air out of a tire. Should get about an oz. of gas out. Then pull the retainer clip and remove the old FPR. Look close though. I think there are 2 "O" rings. Be sure one does not stay down in the housing and once you put it back together check, double check and triple check for leaks. Someone in a recent thread just replaced it and had a massive leak that started a fire.

CaddyQueen30
01-09-09, 08:40 PM
Well, if you are mechanically inclined it is a pretty easy swap. Bleed off the fuel pressure first. Easiest way is to remove the cap on the service port and hold a rag over it while pressing the schreader valve. Just like letting air out of a tire. Should get about an oz. of gas out. Then pull the retainer clip and remove the old FPR. Look close though. I think there are 2 "O" rings. Be sure one does not stay down in the housing and once you put it back together check, double check and triple check for leaks. Someone in a recent thread just replaced it and had a massive leak that started a fire.


Super! I'm picking up the part after work tonight. I'll have it on by tomorrow afternoon. Keep your fingers crossed that it takes care of all the issues!

Thanks Ranger!!! ((((My Hero))))

Ranger
01-09-09, 08:47 PM
Flattery will get you everywhere. Let us know it that solves all your problems. I suspect it might.

CaddyQueen30
01-10-09, 12:54 AM
Flattery will get you everywhere. Let us know it that solves all your problems. I suspect it might.


Yessir!!!! I put it in this evening and guess what? NO PROBLEM with my start...NO PROBLEM with the idle after I drove up a hill. No more hesitation upon acceleration!!! She's running so smooth I'm in love all over again! LOL Thank you SO much! (My Dad, who's a motorcycle mechanic said "well dang, I even learned something new today!" when he watched me swap the FPR's out.) Ranger, if you were in Seattle, I'd buy you a drink or two!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I owe you!! You have earned yourself a fan!

Ranger
01-10-09, 02:05 PM
WOW! A girl who knows her way around under the hood. I'm impressed! Glad I was able to help and that you are in love with your car again. Nothing better that having your car return the favor when you turn it on. Now I know where I can get a free drink ...... or two.

CaddyQueen30
01-12-09, 01:05 PM
WOW! A girl who knows her way around under the hood. I'm impressed! Glad I was able to help and that you are in love with your car again. Nothing better that having your car return the favor when you turn it on. Now I know where I can get a free drink ...... or two.

Absolutely! Couldnt have done it without you though. I do still need to figure out my EGR issue though. One catastrophe at a time. :D

Ranger
01-12-09, 01:21 PM
What EGR issue?

CaddyQueen30
01-12-09, 04:32 PM
What EGR issue?

I'm not quite sure yet...I havent researched it yet. I'm getting a P0300 error code, but the wording of the code leads me to believe it may be the wiring of the EGR rather than the part itself. It says something like Pintle Valve Circuit (I cant remember exactly what it says, I'd have to run it again). When I was looking at it while I was dealing with the FPR though, the wiring didnt look great, and the connector didnt look super either. I really just need some time to inspect I guess. Oh, The dash readout says "Service Emissions". I thought I told you about this. Sheesh...I might be losing it :) :alchi:

Ranger
01-12-09, 05:34 PM
P0300 is a misfire code. There IS an EGR code regarding the pintle valve being out of position or something like that. It's not a wiring problem. The pintle is likely carboned up and needs to be cleaned. I believe there is a detailed tutorial in the Tech Tips section. Might even have pics. If you don't find it, let me know and I'll give you instructions. The hard part is getting it off. If you have not had the fuel rail recall done (you should make it a priority), then you will have a nylon fuel rail and that has a little flex to it. If it has been done, you'll have a stainless steel rail and you'll have to lift it and the injectors to get the EGR mounting bolt loose. You'll see what I mean when you get to it. Then you'll curse the engineer that designed that. Just be sure that when you clean the EGR you DO NOT hold it upside down. You DO NOT want any solvent to run up into the "can". It will destroy the varnish insulation on the windings.

CaddyQueen30
01-20-09, 04:23 PM
I'm not quite sure yet...I havent researched it yet. I'm getting a P0300 error code, but the wording of the code leads me to believe it may be the wiring of the EGR rather than the part itself. It says something like Pintle Valve Circuit (I cant remember exactly what it says, I'd have to run it again). When I was looking at it while I was dealing with the FPR though, the wiring didnt look great, and the connector didnt look super either. I really just need some time to inspect I guess. Oh, The dash readout says "Service Emissions". I thought I told you about this. Sheesh...I might be losing it :) :alchi:

Dang...sorry! I've been inundated with colds and moving! Okay, so its the P0146 (or whatever that first code I posted was) for the Pintle Circuit blah blah blah... My car is still starting up GREAT and the funky idle is gone. I cant thank you enough Ranger M'man!!! I do in fact have the metal fuel rail and when I tried to take off the EGR guess what? Cant do it without removing the fuel rail. Or can I?

Ranger
01-20-09, 06:32 PM
No, unfortunately you'll have to lift the rail.

CaddyQueen30
01-20-09, 07:43 PM
No, unfortunately you'll have to lift the rail.

Thats what I thought. Well, this is a job for my big brother...too much for me. He wanted me to find out what size O Rings are on my injectors?

tateos
01-20-09, 07:45 PM
No, unfortunately you'll have to lift the rail.

Which is absolutely no big deal at all or even worth mentioning, is it? I mean - you have to open the hood, and no one mentioned that, right?

And you can usually re-use the o-rings. Just pop that fuel rail off, clean the EGR pintle area, reinstall it, put the injectors and fuel rail back on, and you will be all set. This is an easy job.

CaddyQueen30
01-20-09, 07:54 PM
Which is absolutely no big deal at all or even worth mentioning, is it? I mean - you have to open the hood, and no one mentioned that, right?

And you can usually re-use the o-rings. Just pop that fuel rail off, clean the EGR pintle area, reinstall it, put the injectors and fuel rail back on, and you will be all set. This is an easy job.


Easy huh? Alright, then I'll give it a try! Any idea how long it should take (so I can tack on an extra hour for inexperience)? Oh yah, and should the fuel be bled from the line prior? Sorry, I'm VERY new at this sort of thing.

Ranger
01-20-09, 09:01 PM
ABSOLUTELY bleed the fuel pressure first. I would bet you can get it done in 2 hours (allowing for inexperience). Really there is only a few rail hold downs that need to be removed. You might not even have to unplug the injectors (not sure about that). Be sure to put a little motor oil on the "O" rings when you reinstall them.

CaddyQueen30
01-21-09, 12:38 PM
ABSOLUTELY bleed the fuel pressure first. I would bet you can get it done in 2 hours (allowing for inexperience). Really there is only a few rail hold downs that need to be removed. You might not even have to unplug the injectors (not sure about that). Be sure to put a little motor oil on the "O" rings when you reinstall them.

Super! I'll be sure to let you know how it goes. Thanks!!!!!