: Recommendation...worth it????



K_cin_az
01-02-09, 05:45 PM
Just wondering what some of the more experience audio guys think about if this is worth the time and money to install. Have a guy who can get me a pretty good deal on hi-fonics equipement. So I was thinking of getting a hi-fonics 5 channel amp, some new 6x9's and either component or traditional front speakers. I am not looking for extremely loud bass/sound, but just good sounding bass, mids and highs with a little kick when needed.

So my question is do you guys think this would be worth the time and money to install compared to just sticking with the original speakers powered by the headunit and my 8 inch powered bass tube?

Is this even possible, the five channel amps seem to want to take a RCA connection for each channel but my head unit only has RCA output for the subs and rear speaker?

If I do go this route should I get component speakers for my front speakers or full range?

Thanks for any tips/advice!

CadillacSTS42005
01-02-09, 06:29 PM
oem = crap
id go aftermarket
just be ready to relocate your hu into the trunk and run all new wires for the best results

K_cin_az
01-02-09, 11:53 PM
hey cadillacSTS - i already got a double din installed with some minor issues but my eldo was non-bose so didnt have to go the route of wiring in my bose head unit in the trunk. That being said so you think it is worth it going with the new 6x9s and component front speakers?

K_cin_az
01-03-09, 12:03 AM
should I have any problems putting the component speakers in the 99 eldo when it comes to fitment?

CadillacSTS42005
01-03-09, 09:23 AM
nope
i know the bose had a clip in bracket that holds down the rear speaker
you may have that too since i would assume they would build the car the same and have drilled the holes in all cars (my ETC had the holes for the bracket assembly in the front doors which is what i got out of a wreaked car so i could install larger 5.25 speakers rather than 4 inch speakers in the bose boxes)
in which case you have to:
1 drill holes out mount the rear speak
or
2 be creative and like me make a gasket out of double sided sticky tape (good 3M kind) and place the speaker down in the hole then go in the trunk and grab the magnet and yank down on if for a good seal

fronts, since your amping them, your better off with components, they can handle more power than your standard coaxle and it will give a little separation so the mid doesn't drown out the treb as much since i assume your going to mount the tweet in the stock location rather than drill a 1 inch hole in your door panel
as for the hu install just be sure to keep an eye on it, if things start to act weird such as a dead battery, loss of keyless, etc etc etc...
you know what you must do

K_cin_az
01-03-09, 10:51 AM
damn that are exactly the problems i am having with my aftermarket install. However I did now to jump the two dataclass wires so I am hoping that helps out. Battery is not going dead but getting the loss of memory in the DIC unit and the loss of keyless entry.

CadillacSTS42005
01-03-09, 10:56 AM
sometimes jumping fixes it
sometimes not
if it doesnt buy yourself another 32 pin MALE plug plug that into your radio
install it in the trunk and run the power ground and data class wires to it in the trunk
that will fix the problem permanently

K_cin_az
01-05-09, 12:58 PM
thanks, printed this out and will first try the jumping and see how it goes, if that doesn't solve it when I install the 5 channel amp I will install the factory hu in the trunk.

So with the oem installed in the trunk the constant wire running to the aftermarket won't be a problem?

Also obviously the data class wires would come from the deck, does the power/ground wires have to be the power/ground wires from the original wiring in the dash or can I use a power wire that is run directly from the battery and just a ground?

thanks again for the advice!

CadillacSTS42005
01-05-09, 09:20 PM
just run the power ground and data class wires from the up front plug to the rear plug and youll be fine

K_cin_az
01-12-09, 12:47 PM
thanks, I think I am just going to try to get that done if I am going to install a 5 channel amp. Mind as well for piece of mind. If I go against the 5 channel I will try jumping wires first to see if that helps at all. Thanks again for the direction and advice!

GizmoQ
01-13-09, 11:18 PM
Just wondering what some of the more experience audio guys think about if this is worth the time and money to install. Have a guy who can get me a pretty good deal on hi-fonics equipement. So I was thinking of getting a hi-fonics 5 channel amp, some new 6x9's and either component or traditional front speakers. I am not looking for extremely loud bass/sound, but just good sounding bass, mids and highs with a little kick when needed.

Thanks for any tips/advice!

I had the Zeus 5 channel in a convertible Mustang and the bass power response sucks! Its subwoofer channel is underpowered for anything more than a small 10" sub. With a good install the sound is clean and tight. Highs can be harsh without a tunable crossover, mids and mid-sub were crisp and clear.

Make sure you buy high efficiency speakers (preferably components with a variable crossover) for your front stage. Moderate efficiency front stage will never approach 100db without clipping. Hifonics amps don't have a lot of adjustability or subsonic filters so you need speakers and sub that are closely matched to the amp. Without the subsonic filter, tuning my sub at 50HZ was a pain in the ass.

Used the Zeus once for SPL competition - got 3rd place, but blew out my entire front stage. Zeus is bridgeable, but doesn't like running at 2 Ohm without lots and lots of extra cooling. I keep mine just as a backup and went for a multi-channel with a higher power sub channel. Put a Directed 2205 in and increased my SPL by a factor of 2 (placed first twice). Best I could find currently running a rechipped(internal components upgraded) TRUE 2000+ watts, 6 channel Pyle PLAD618: Thumping BASS @ 134dB competition certified in a vert!

Good luck.

K_cin_az
01-23-09, 02:49 PM
thanks gizmo - based on your response sounds like the hi-fonics amp would be fine for me. I am not looking for competition sized bass, more of just a very good sounding system with a little kick, would probably only put a 8 inch sub in. Have kind of a basic question though, it seems the 5 channel amp only accepts RCA inputs, I believe my head unit only has RCA outputs for the rear channel and the sub channel. Is there a way to still install the amp?

Also would anyone happen to know off hand the if the dataclass wired are a certain color or easily identified?

GizmoQ
01-23-09, 10:36 PM
thanks gizmo - based on your response sounds like the hi-fonics amp would be fine for me. I am not looking for competition sized bass, more of just a very good sounding system with a little kick, would probably only put a 8 inch sub in. Have kind of a basic question though, it seems the 5 channel amp only accepts RCA inputs, I believe my head unit only has RCA outputs for the rear channel and the sub channel. Is there a way to still install the amp?

Also would anyone happen to know off hand the if the dataclass wired are a certain color or easily identified?

I have never seen a HU with only rear out and sub RCAs. I have seen many without a sub out, but if its got RCA out there should at least be front and rear. What brand and model # is it. Let's google it. If it is as you say, you can still use it with a couple RCA splitters, but you loose the ability to adjust the fader from the headunit.

Don't make the mistake of running too small a sub - smaller means quicker response but you loose depth and that hifonics has no subsonic filter so its gonna get muddy fast. A good, well tuned set of 6x9s will give you all the same frequencies a cheap 8in mid-sub can reproduce. And an expensive 8in still won't match the depth of a decent 10" for half the cost. But if you're happy with a "powered bass tube" we're in two different leagues.

I'd have to let one of the others here tackle your question on the dataclass wires, I always run new wires for aftermarket installs in Caddys. I run from the battery for 12V, from the underhood fuse banks for the ignition and ACC and avoid the internal wiring completely. These cars are noisy (interference) so I always do a "Big Three" upgrade and grind all paint off for grounds, otherwise I won't warranty the install - too many possible problems... like what you and STS2003 mention.

K_cin_az
01-24-09, 12:30 PM
(kenwood dnkx5120)

Ok so it seems I would be ok after taking a look online...it seems to have the three sets of RCA's (i think I got confused with the r/sw not being able to be seperated).....I am sure you are in a different league than me, but maybe I will go with a 10 inch sub instead.

Wish one of the caddy experts from this board was from Az thats for sure! I can do basic install's, but this all gets a little too complicated when it comes to the caddy's.

SSouljahboy
01-24-09, 03:06 PM
I was looking at that same deck in my 01 eldo, would u mind posting a pic of the install.

K_cin_az
01-25-09, 04:52 PM
gizmo q - so since it only has two rca outs would I need to split the front channel and keep the rear assigned as a sub out?

souljah - deck is pretty slick in my opinion, intall is terrible right now, do a search for double din install and you will see several different ones, I will post a pic later though also,

SSouljahboy
01-25-09, 05:06 PM
Cool, I ordered it yesterday, I let you know how it comes out when I get it installed

GizmoQ
01-25-09, 08:37 PM
thanks gizmo - based on your response sounds like the hi-fonics amp would be fine for me. I am not looking for competition sized bass, more of just a very good sounding system with a little kick, would probably only put a 8 inch sub in. Have kind of a basic question though, it seems the 5 channel amp only accepts RCA inputs, I believe my head unit only has RCA outputs for the rear channel and the sub channel. Is there a way to still install the amp?
Yes. From reviewing the install manual and knowing the hiphonics amp, you should split the rear channel from the headunit to rear and sub on the amp and set the amp on 5-ch mode.


Also would anyone happen to know off hand the if the dataclass wired are a certain color or easily identified?

I would recommend running all new power wiring from under the hood. Cadillacs are notorious for noisy power, be it dataclass lines, poor grounding, or accessories. If you want the sound clean without a possible hassle getting there, invest in new wiring. A"Big Three Upgrade" wouldn't hurt either.


gizmo q - so since it only has two rca outs would I need to split the front channel and keep the rear assigned as a sub out?
No! Split the rears.


souljah - deck is pretty slick in my opinion, intall is terrible right now, do a search for double din install and you will see several different ones, I will post a pic later though also,
Sounds like you've already begun, good luck with that, I'll stick with my CarPC.

K_cin_az
01-26-09, 10:12 AM
Thanks again GizmoQ! By splitting the rear channel to the rear and sub would I maintain fader func. via the head unit, reason I ask is with the Nav unit that comes in very useful to have the nav voice only come through the front speakers and the music still play through via the back speakers.

I will search the board for more info on your wiring suggestions. (big three upgrade and complete new wiring)

I am search a car computer is much slicker! The kenwood's Ipod interface was the best I tested out of several brands so I went with it.

K_cin_az
01-27-09, 06:03 PM
well I got that amp in and reading through the manual it says it has an "autosumming feature" where the sub channel will automatically produce the output based off of channel 1's input.

GizmoQ
01-27-09, 09:10 PM
well I got that amp in and reading through the manual it says it has an "autosumming feature" where the sub channel will automatically produce the output based off of channel 1's input.

Yes it does, and if you are running a deep front stage and mount the bass boost knob close, I recommend it. Because that mode is pulling its input from the front speaker channel, you can create a deeper front stage and not loose your sub output cause of your fader settings. Problem is the internal splitter (at least in my amp) costs you about 30% of the power you can get from the direct sub input. Tuning the system is a bitch when using autosumming.

Given your headunit's limitations, I would recommend setting the amp on 5-ch mode, center the fader on the headunit and never change it, tune the system with the sub split off the rears, i.e., set my stage with the gains on the amp, switch to 4-ch mode(autosumming) and retune the sub only and then check it for clipping at your highest probable volume and bass settings from the headunit.

What sub and components did you end up getting?

K_cin_az
01-28-09, 09:59 AM
the 6 x 9's and 5.25 component speakers where the hifonics zues series also, (same as amp) - Obviously for $250 for the all four speakers and the 5 channel amp I am not expecting the world, but hoping to get some clean sound at normal levels. Sub I dont have yet, at first I am going to plug in a used sub from craigslist while I save some $ up for a single 10 or 12 that is nice.

K_cin_az
02-18-09, 11:41 AM
Well I have done A LOT of reading on this board and I see why these aftermarket install threads can get tiresome. The info is all on the board, but it can be pretty difficult to piece it all together. So I have just about everything I need to jump into adding new speakers and the 5 channel amp and trying to fix the sleep mode problems of my original install. I do have a couple of questions I was hoping to get final confirmation on.

So I am going to install the original HU in the trunk to eliminate the sleep mode problems I am having. To do this I am going to:

Run the two purple Data class wires from the stock harness to the trunk/original hu. These will not be
tied into the aftermarket HU, only to the OEM HU in the trunk.

Split the ground remote wire and run one to the aftermarket HU and one to the original HU in the trunk.

Split the 12v power wires and run them to the aftermarket HU and to the original HU in the trunk.

Run new speakwire bypassing previous speakwire.

Questions
My original install does have the GRMC03 installed. From what I understand I can leave that installed to maintain chimes. I do not have the contstant wired through it. Is it ok to leave the GRMC03 installed as long as the above critera is met?

Does anyone know the color of the ground/remote wire? This is just one wire correct? It is ok to have the split run to the orignal HU in the trunk and then the other end of the split into the GRMC03?

The 12v power wire(s)? How many power wires should I be splitting? I know I have the yellow wire hooked up dirct to the power source currently skipping the grmc03. Is this the only power wire I need to run to the aftermarket HU as well?

To install these wires into the aftermarket headunit cadillacsts03 mentions that I just need to get another 32 pin male plug. Is this the type of product I am looking for (http://www.scosche.com/products/sfID1/151/sfID2/158/sfID3/178/listPage/3/productID/265) Do they normally carry these kind of plugs in stores?

I am still confused with the need to run new speakerwire, will do so, but curiousity is killing me on how this affects the system?

timothyr
02-18-09, 07:56 PM
K, If you are interested in having a hand to redo the whole install I would be more then willing to help, I am located in the chandler area, and have done several custom installs, and will be more than happy to show you the quality of my work (think solder & shrinkwrap), not crimp)...I dont do it for a living, but always enjoy working with a fellow cadillac junkie, and have learned the lessons of not letting anyone else touch my cars.

K_cin_az
02-18-09, 09:46 PM
K, If you are interested in having a hand to redo the whole install I would be more then willing to help, I am located in the chandler area, and have done several custom installs, and will be more than happy to show you the quality of my work (think solder & shrinkwrap), not crimp)...I dont do it for a living, but always enjoy working with a fellow cadillac junkie, and have learned the lessons of not letting anyone else touch my cars.


hey there timothy, I live in Maricopa so not that far away, but I am pretty much a novice. I can comprehend everything pretty quickly, but haven't done much install work beyond very basic stuff. My current plan was to get everything down exactly as it needs to be and have a guy that lives all the way out in deervalley complete the install. He was a referral from a friend and has worked on caddy's before. This job seems pretty in depth to me in terms of hours. If it is something that you truly enjoy I couldn't pass up saving the cash and being involved with the install, but again I am a Novice and would not be much help besided following instructions during the install. It seems like an all day job almost to re-wire the hu in the trunk and install the 5 channel amp with new speakers and new speaker wire. I would almost feel guilty accepting this much help, but let know what you think - Nick

timothyr
02-18-09, 10:33 PM
Honestly, Would love to help you and appreciate guys who like to learn....thats part of what makes these boards so great, & the more you learn the more you can contribute.
I would plan to suck down a weekend to do it just to be safe....depending on what was done when the system was originally installed it may take a bit to fix it.

PM me with your e-mail and Phone and we can set it up.
you can save a buck and by me a beer....then we can find some other junkies and have a sound-off

K_cin_az
02-18-09, 10:39 PM
that sounds cool to me, ill grab all the brews and all the wings/food at least. pm on it's way with my contact info. I can explain the majority of what was done as the original install I was present for watching and somewhat helping.

K_cin_az
03-24-09, 01:33 PM
Update! - Thanks to TimothyR the OEM headunit has been moved into the trunk and we easily fit in the replacment speakers, having some problems with that AMP we are going to hook back up to try and diagnosis, but all security problems, etc, are long gone. Timothy was able to nestle the original headunit in spare tire compartment where you can't see it at all!