: How is the manual mode on the auto?



Heavychevy1
12-30-08, 01:04 PM
Title says it, how is the manual mode in the auto? Paddle shifters? Steering wheel shifters?

I get attached to my cars (unless they break), and I know at some point I'll be driving little ones around in this car and am seriously considering the auto, but I wont buy it if it feels too much like an auto and the manual mode is lame.

Is it comparable to a C6 with auto and paddles? I've driven that before.

edsuski
12-30-08, 01:16 PM
To be honest - the car has less than 500 miles on it so I am still taking it easy. I will be able to tell you more later, but so far the manual mode (or sport mode) is pretty amazing. If you switch into manual mode - "Sport mode" shows up in the Drivers Information Center display. If you do not push the shifter forward or back - you stay in automatic sport mode. In this mode the car will shift for you and the shifts are noticeably harder and at higher shift points. It feels like you are driving a manual with perfect shifts.

If you shift manually - everything works just fine - but for the life of me I can't figure out why someone would think they can shift better than the computer. Sure - there are occasions when you might want to hold a gear longer or up-shift sooner because of certain road conditions only a driver can see, but at least for me, those occasions are much rarer than the dreaded missed shift.

To answer your question - the manual mode seems to work great. However, the automatic in "Sport Mode" works so spectacularly that I don't think you will be using the paddle shifters much. Maybe having them will give the die hard manual guys the "excuse" they need to buy an automatic. Remember - the record ring time was achieved using an automatic and never once did he touch the paddle shifters.....

Good luck.

Kadonny
12-30-08, 01:46 PM
I absolutely love the manual mode. Granted I too only have a few hunderd miles on it, but I like the control the manual mode gives you. If you don't want to be bogged down in 5th or 6th coasting down a back road, keep it in manual and lock in a lower gear. I also like doing hill climbs and such in a lower gear rather than a low rpm climb in an upper gear. Just my take.

If I want to run fast and hard though, the sport automatic is the way to go. Let the car figure what gear is best. Still, I find myself interacting a bit more (and hear better exhaust sounds) with the manual mode than I thought I would have.....not to mention the throttle blips are way cool.

Kmajecki
12-30-08, 01:55 PM
When i test drove one i didnt really care for the paddles. I mean it works like it should, you hit the button, and it shifts right away. Not like others where you are just giving permission for the auto to upshift. I think i would prob just rely on the computer although for those that actually own one i am sure you can get used to it. The only thing i would miss about the manual is the ability to just push in the clutch and rev it up, oh and the ability to brag about the top speed :D

Kmajecki
12-30-08, 01:57 PM
not to mention the throttle blips are way cool.

Well if that's the case then one problem solved! I love the blips!!!! I didnt know those were possible, as like i said im still just a lowly V1 owner that was lucky enough to test drive V2.

175mph is just too slow for me! lol jk!

Heavychevy1
12-30-08, 03:07 PM
To be honest - the car has less than 500 miles on it so I am still taking it easy. I will be able to tell you more later, but so far the manual mode (or sport mode) is pretty amazing. If you switch into manual mode - "Sport mode" shows up in the Drivers Information Center display. If you do not push the shifter forward or back - you stay in automatic sport mode. In this mode the car will shift for you and the shifts are noticeably harder and at higher shift points. It feels like you are driving a manual with perfect shifts.

If you shift manually - everything works just fine - but for the life of me I can't figure out why someone would think they can shift better than the computer. Sure - there are occasions when you might want to hold a gear longer or up-shift sooner because of certain road conditions only a driver can see, but at least for me, those occasions are much rarer than the dreaded missed shift.

To answer your question - the manual mode seems to work great. However, the automatic in "Sport Mode" works so spectacularly that I don't think you will be using the paddle shifters much. Maybe having them will give the die hard manual guys the "excuse" they need to buy an automatic. Remember - the record ring time was achieved using an automatic and never once did he touch the paddle shifters.....

Good luck.

I shift pretty quick and more importantly more smoothly than many of these new transmissions. I remember driving an M6 at a road course last year and the shifts were so violent they chirped the tires, sound cool when you're going straight, but going around a corner at the edge of traction and it breaks the tires loose. Not fun at all.

Besides, I do mountain runs and track days and driving an auto is plain BORING when your intent is to have fun, at least for me it is. Besides, heel/toe downshifts are great for me too, but I will settle for a paddle shift manual, I refuse to have a computer decide shifts for me all the time.

However the no-lift shift feature on the manual really makes me want that too. I'll have to drive both and see which seems to fit better. And yes, I agree, 175 mph isnt great for me either. I've done a few jaunts into the 180's in my old E39 M5. Luckily I shouldnt be able to reach more than 175 on the road course (at least in the V) or the auto would be out.

jvp
12-30-08, 03:41 PM
but going around a corner at the edge of traction and it breaks the tires loose. Not fun at all.

With my instructor hat on, let me smack you on the helmet and yell, "WHY THE HELL ARE YOU SHIFTING IN A CORNER?!" :-)

jas (manual: only way to fly)

Heavychevy1
12-30-08, 03:49 PM
LOL, I was wondering if anyone here would catch that. At little talledega road course in Alabama, there is a long sweeping turn that you'll take in third gear, as you exit the sweeper there is a small chicane that you can keep flat through onto the back straight, problem is you'll still be heavily loaded on your passenger side and have to shift to 4th while in that chicane while turning. It was very not cool in the M6.

There are also tons of increasing, and some decreasing radius turns at Barber Motorsports park that are so long, your exit gear is higher than your entry gear. So yeah, there are those occasions where you will have to shift while turning, especially depending on your gear ratios and how they work on the track.

I keep leaning towards the manual for sure, but I have my P-car that's a manual so I don't necessarily know if I should have two.

GMX322V S/C
12-30-08, 07:07 PM
About the only thing I'd add to the other owners' comments is upshift response under manual control in my car is slightly delayed while downshift response is basically immediate. It's the same whether I use the paddles or move the lever. Full auto in sport mode is a delight for the most part.

atdeneve
12-31-08, 05:18 AM
I shift pretty quick and more importantly more smoothly than many of these new transmissions. I remember driving an M6 at a road course last year and the shifts were so violent they chirped the tires, sound cool when you're going straight, but going around a corner at the edge of traction and it breaks the tires loose. Not fun at all.

Besides, I do mountain runs and track days and driving an auto is plain BORING when your intent is to have fun, at least for me it is. Besides, heel/toe downshifts are great for me too, but I will settle for a paddle shift manual, I refuse to have a computer decide shifts for me all the time.

However the no-lift shift feature on the manual really makes me want that too. I'll have to drive both and see which seems to fit better. And yes, I agree, 175 mph isnt great for me either. I've done a few jaunts into the 180's in my old E39 M5. Luckily I shouldnt be able to reach more than 175 on the road course (at least in the V) or the auto would be out.

Aside from the delimiting, was it modded?

thebigjimsho
12-31-08, 09:47 AM
Well if that's the case then one problem solved! I love the blips!!!! I didnt know those were possible, as like i said im still just a lowly V1 owner that was lucky enough to test drive V2.

175mph is just too slow for me! lol jk!Blipping the throttle on downshifts really made me love the automatic. I've always been a manual purist, ALWAYS, but this car is making me think twice. Hopefully, there will be one of each at V-Day III...

Heavychevy1
12-31-08, 11:52 AM
Aside from the delimiting, was it modded?


It was a Dinan S1 at first, and then an S2.

Short-Throw
12-31-08, 12:58 PM
Title says it, how is the manual mode in the auto? Paddle shifters? Steering wheel shifters?

Is it comparable to a C6 with auto and paddles? I've driven that before.

The paddles are somewhat similar to the Corvette.


The paddles/gear selector in manual mode do not replace a true manual.

Here are some differences:

With the paddles, the engine blips and does a great job. With a manual you can blip and catch the gear when you want. The paddles are more precise but do not give you ultimate control.

The up-shifts and downshifts are not quicker with the paddles vs the manual. The up-shifts in pure auto-mode will be faster than manually shifting no matter how fast you think you are.

You will never miss a shift with the paddles, they won't even let you over-rev the engine.

The paddles actually work quite well in traffic. 2nd gear starts and engine braking almost simulate the true manual effect.

Bottom line:

The paddles give you a great option to drive the car with more control, but do not replace a true manual whatsoever. If this wasn't a 2-ton+ luxury sedan, (that just happens to be one of the best performing to date) I would have chosen the manual. This is not a car you will want to track given it's weight. Because this car is equipped with such niceties, it is a pleasure to sit back once in a while and enjoy them without the right arm work out.





Mike

jvp
12-31-08, 01:07 PM
Mike -


TThis is not a car you will want to track given it's weight.

We've had this discussion over the phone and online. And, no matter how many times you say this, I still disagree with you.

Will it perform like our Z06s at the race track? Hell no.

Will it be a dog at the race track? No way.

I've seen these cars beaten (hard) at the race track. When given to a good driver, they can run with Z51, LS3 equipped Corvette coupes.

Remember your perspective. Light weight, toss-able GT (or your race car). It doesn't mean a 2-ton SPORT/luxury sedan such as the V won't be entertaining at the track. It'll just be... different.

jas

Short-Throw
12-31-08, 02:02 PM
Mike -

I've seen these cars beaten (hard) at the race track. When given to a good driver, they can run with Z51, LS3 equipped Corvette coupes.
.

jas

Jason,

You're over focused again and seem to perpetually look for a reason to disagree. This has nothing to do with timed performance.

I am not suggesting to not track the V2 because it may post slower times or not be fun. The fact is this car will punish the majority of cars out there. Let me be clear so you don't misunderstand me. Any car is fun on track including the Miatas we race (that have trouble seeing 100mph on long straights).

The V2 is heavy, it will require a lot more maintenance that you may realize.

A little history:

We race 4 door BMWs at our driving school and despite pushing in the turns, being 100% street cars and relatively boring cars, they are fun on track. Why, because any car requires the driver to extrapolate the best from it and doing so makes it fun.

When our track first opened every member showed up with their expensive cars.

E55s, M5s. AMGs, you name it, etc..

It didn't take long to learn that such heavy cars require a lot of expensive maintenance. We have had members take out their Bentleys just to open them up and see what they could do, pretty funny stuff.

A heavier car means more stress transferred to all the performance parts. The brakes (yes, Brembos are great, I have them on all my cars), suspension (tie-rods, etc..). You will blow through tires rapidly as well.

The kind of power this car makes will require stopping from much faster speeds, this is brutal on a car carrying a lot of mass.

You have not seen these cars beaten on track long enough to know what's involved keeping them fresh.

While I admit the weight would take away some of the fun factor for me on track, the V2 is quite a capable car and would be an absolute blast flogging on. I will take my V2 on track on a very limited basis.

If we can get enough interest I would even consider having a CTS-V day at Autobahn for those that want to learn more about their car on how to preserve the equipment better.

A track car is fun when it spends more time on the track, not the rack. I've unfortunately experienced both a lot to know the difference.



Mike

jvp
12-31-08, 02:17 PM
Jason,

You're over focused again and seem to perpetually look for a reason to disagree. This has nothing to do with timed performance.

Then you need to be careful when you throw out statements like:


This is not a car you will want to track given it's weight.

Pay attention to what you write. Others do. :-)

And as for perpetually disagreeing with you, yep, I do tend to do that. We come from two different schools of thought on track driving, performance cars, et al. And, fortunately for us, forums are a place where we can discuss said differences.

jas

Short-Throw
12-31-08, 02:39 PM
:):rant2:
forums are a place where we can discuss said differences.

jas

What differences?

We both agree the car is an absolute blast to drive. We both agree it is fun on track, but there is cause and effect that should be considered.

Most people have no idea how much weight effects the consumables and other components of a car when it's being tracked. I was giving a heads-up. It was an addendum! :thumbsup:

You may drive with your cruise control engaged on track, but many don't! :thepan:

Just a little humor there, no reason to disagree, embrace it! :bouncy:

Have a great 2009!

Mike

Heavychevy1
12-31-08, 05:50 PM
Back on topic, I could care less if I was 2 seconds slower with the manual mode, which I wont be, there is no chance I'd drive on the track with it in auto mode. It's not about competition, it's about fun. And I'm talking sparingly tracking, like 3-4 times a year tops. My E39 did great other than eating brakes like lunch, and having a weak clutch slipping, but the brakes were puny anyways.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but if the idea of this car is to compete with the M5's of the world, then it has to take a beating at the track like the M5, it's got to be sporty like an M5 and perform like an M5, but for much less money. Speaking of which, new M5's are selling for mid 80's and slightly used ones in the 60's, so we will see what the V is made of for sure.

Mike has driven pure race cars, and his opinions are as such, I had the same feeling after driving a panoz race car and getting back in a street car at the track, it's a totally different experience. But for many, tracking a sporty DD or weekend car is as close as it gets, and the V seems to fit the bill for an occasional DE, just not serious weekend warrior type guys.

caddiedrummer
12-31-08, 08:44 PM
I have to say when I ordered the V it did not cross my mind to track it--no more than it did with my 06 M5. Like the M, this is a fun daily performance car. Would it be fun once or twice to run it on the track? --sure. If I am headed to VIR or Summit etc I will take the Vipers not the V.

Short-Throw
12-31-08, 09:21 PM
Mike has driven pure race cars, and his opinions are as such, I had the same feeling after driving a panoz race car and getting back in a street car at the track, it's a totally different experience. But for many, tracking a sporty DD or weekend car is as close as it gets, and the V seems to fit the bill for an occasional DE, just not serious weekend warrior type guys.

Dez,

I agree with you, and if you're looking to spoil some of your friends fun in their M5s, this is the car! I'm sure as ownership increases we will all learn more of the cars pluses and minuses, on and off track.

Don't forget, besides the race cars, I modded my street Z06 to a point where there was nothing more I could do and still keep it street legal, sans the motor. We all know HP is over-rated on the track, hence I understand your desire for coil-overs. You are a smart man.

I wasn't trying to spoil anybody's fun by saying you need a specific car to run on track, any car will do. This car will scare many people, that's for sure. Just suggesting people do a little homework to make sure the car is always safe and to put a few bucks away for fresh brake pads and fluid.

Dez, I know you get this already.

Believe me, nothing would make me happier than seeing more of these cars making a statement on track.

Mike

RapidRob
12-31-08, 11:16 PM
The paddles are somewhat similar to the Corvette.


The paddles/gear selector in manual mode do not replace a true manual.

Here are some differences:

With the paddles, the engine blips and does a great job. With a manual you can blip and catch the gear when you want. The paddles are more precise but do not give you ultimate control.

The up-shifts and downshifts are not quicker with the paddles vs the manual. The up-shifts in pure auto-mode will be faster than manually shifting no matter how fast you think you are.

You will never miss a shift with the paddles, they won't even let you over-rev the engine.

The paddles actually work quite well in traffic. 2nd gear starts and engine braking almost simulate the true manual effect.

Bottom line:

The paddles give you a great option to drive the car with more control, but do not replace a true manual whatsoever. If this wasn't a 2-ton+ luxury sedan, (that just happens to be one of the best performing to date) I would have chosen the manual. This is not a car you will want to track given it's weight. Because this car is equipped with such niceties, it is a pleasure to sit back once in a while and enjoy them without the right arm work out.

Mike

Damb Mike ... now I'm wondering if I shouldn't have ordered an auto instead of the M6. Actually, this is the first auto I've ever heard of that is reportedly faster than than the same car equiped with a manual with experienced drivers.

Hmmm - wonder if it's too late to alter my order .. ?

Rob

Short-Throw
01-01-09, 02:59 AM
Damb Mike ... now I'm wondering if I shouldn't have ordered an auto instead of the M6. Actually, this is the first auto I've ever heard of that is reportedly faster than than the same car equiped with a manual with experienced drivers.

Hmmm - wonder if it's too late to alter my order .. ?

Rob

Let me clarify a bit more.

If your gut was to order the M6, you probably made the right call. This is definitely a driver's car. I'm happy with the A6 because of the dual role of business and pleasure it will take on.

The Auto is faster when you simply hold your foot down, not when you use the manual mode. If you're a driver and ordered the M6 you will be quite happy. The differences are so close that unless you're drag racing for tenths, it will be a drivers race. If you're going to track the car on road courses or just like driving with that closer connectivity, my pick would be the M6. If the CTS-V was my only car I most likely would have ordered the M6.

Like test taking, usually your first answer is the best! Enjoy the M6!


Mike

RapidRob
01-01-09, 08:01 PM
Let me clarify a bit more.

If your gut was to order the M6, you probably made the right call. This is definitely a driver's car. I'm happy with the A6 because of the dual role of business and pleasure it will take on.

The Auto is faster when you simply hold your foot down, not when you use the manual mode. If you're a driver and ordered the M6 you will be quite happy. The differences are so close that unless you're drag racing for tenths, it will be a drivers race. If you're going to track the car on road courses or just like driving with that closer connectivity, my pick would be the M6. If the CTS-V was my only car I most likely would have ordered the M.

Like test taking, usually your first answer is the best! Enjoy the M6!


Mike

Thanks for that, Mike, but I'm still thinking on it a wee bit. I still think that an experienced driver in THAT particular vehicle will almost always win out with a manual versus an auto, unless the manual has issues that delay the 'snicks' through the gears for some reason. I, of course, could be wrong in this case ... I guess time will tell. Frustrating that there were no V2's in my entire area to test-drive before ordering, but I had heard that the manual in the V2 was exceptionally smooth and fast.

Anyway, I most likely will stick with the M6 ..

Rob

SmurfsElDog
01-02-09, 02:03 AM
Thanks for that, Mike, but I'm still thinking on it a wee bit. I still think that an experienced driver in THAT particular vehicle will almost always win out with a manual versus an auto, unless the manual has issues that delay the 'snicks' through the gears for some reason. I, of course, could be wrong in this case ... I guess time will tell. Frustrating that there were no V2's in my entire area to test-drive before ordering, but I had heard that the manual in the V2 was exceptionally smooth and fast.

Anyway, I most likely will stick with the M6 ..

Rob

Autos are normally quicker in high powered cars. From imports to domestic and especially on a track. Manuals are lighter tho by some pounds.

Heavychevy1
01-02-09, 11:04 AM
Autos are normally quicker in high powered cars. From imports to domestic and especially on a track. Manuals are lighter tho by some pounds.

What autos are you reffering to? And what tracks? The traditional autos with torque converters are not faster than a manual at all, especially on a track. They shift like matilda, and rob all sorts of power. You see that GM had to even give this auto shorter gears to help it keep up.

If you look at Porsches, Manual is always faster than tipronic aside from launch control that keep the tip up to speed in 0-60 and 1/4 ,mile, but put them on a track and it's completely different.

Try running an auto in T1 SCCA, bet you have no chance there. This goes along many other makes as well. Now the new sequential transmissions that have no torque converters may be faster, but the manufacturers design them that way because they spent all that money in R&D and they want to recoupe it. BMW watered down the manual M5 because they never wanted to make it but were pretty much forced to by BMW purists.

The V2 is a special case where a traditional auto can keep up with the manual and that's only because it has shorter gears. But John Heinreicy said he'd choose the manual in a hearbeat, and that the only reason he drove the ring in the auto is because that's what he had the most and he would have had to learn all the shift points in the manual where as the auto did it for him.

But I'd be willing to bet with some time behind the wheel, John would have went faster in the manual. And if more manufacturers left in engine braking, the gap would be even bigger.

Short-Throw
01-02-09, 04:19 PM
Try running an auto in T1 SCCA, bet you have no chance there.

Oh you'd have a chance all right, slim and none. With the exception of the new F430 Scud, there is no way a paddle shifted auto will keep up with a manual. I have no doubts on a road course, driver for driver, the manual is the way to go.


Mike

Heavychevy1
01-02-09, 04:35 PM
Right, I meant to say auto C6 since those seem the be the fastest year in and year out.