: Cadillac over priced by 40%



turnerbend
12-23-08, 04:15 PM
Back in the mid '50s to late '70s my dad drove Cadillacs that was made of steel and was bullet proof. As teenagers, my brothers and myself would race them without dad knowledge. All we did was to keep the oil changed. I drove Cadillac from the early '80s until now. And man what a different. I love my Caddies and get good service with minimum repairs. But we are now driving on the past name of CADILLAC. The Cadillac STS and the CTS should be priced about the same as the Cheaper Dodge, Chevy, and Fords. You can keep fooling yourself and think you are buying the top of the line, but the proof is in the resale and dependability of the cars. Unless there is a big change before I buy my next car, the STS will be my last Cadillac. How do You feel?

C&C
12-23-08, 06:52 PM
Succinctly; I don't agree.

Caroutisine
12-23-08, 07:55 PM
I also don't agree. You get what you pay for. I can tell the difference between my Chevy and the Caddy. When I'm driving the car I know which one I'm in. The Caddy has a better feel to it.

c5 rv
12-23-08, 07:58 PM
My CTS and SRX were / are a hoot to drive. But, I know my Cadillac service advisors and the Enterprise loaners there way too well. My MKZ is less comfortable and about as exciting as warm milk. But, I don't the names of anyone at the service dept. of my Lincoln dealer, never had a loaner from there, etc. It depends on what is more important to you.

dhemrick
12-23-08, 08:01 PM
As my young nephew who is accustomed to riding in a newer Mazda and a Dodge once said during a ride in my STS "Wow... This car's not like other cars, is it?"

Even a child can see that an STS is not like other lesser cars.

I've ridden in and driven a lot of cars, and our two STSs (the STS4 and the STS-V) blow away most other cars. The only comparable cars I have seen are higher end Mercedes (S class, not really the E class), BMW 7 series, and some Lexus models. Chevy? Toyota? Ford? Forget about it... not even close.

mbnv992
12-23-08, 10:04 PM
I have to agree. I LOVE my STS, it's worth every penny I paid for it. It's great in the snow, the ride is like of my mothers $90,000 Mercedes S class car, etc. Cannot go wrong with the STS.

miked
12-23-08, 11:06 PM
We've owned a bunch of luxury cars: three BMW's, a Lexus, three Saab's, and two Cadillac's (our current cars: 05 SRX and 08 STS). Best "quality" was the Lexus, in terms of reliability and the feeling that the car was put together so well -- no squeeks or rattles even at 40K miles/3 years. Worst were the three Saab's: all three stranded us, for a total of 5 times; one time one just died while we were driving the car.

I'd put the Cadillac's on par with the BMW's. All were/are reliable, but there are more squeaks and rattles than there should be (moreso surprisingly on the 08 STS than on the 05 SRX). In terms of luxury-ness, Cadillac is number one, with tons of bells and whistles. In terms of "fun to drive," surprisingly I'd say the Saabs first (very visceral, but some don't like that), the Cadillacs and the BMW tied for second, and then the Lexus a distant third (being very "appliance-like").

I do still feel that Cadillac's MSRP's are way too high. The employee price should be the regular price, thus an across-the-board 20% cut in MSRP would be better. Would help resale, too, I'd think.

Only other area that Cadillac really lags is in the dealerships. I have never been to a Cadillac dealer that wow'ed me with the surroundings -- GM execs need to go visit some Lexus or Acura dealers in that respect.

Overall, Cadillac doesn't have anything to apologize for. We are very happy with both of our Cadillacs; both the SRX and the STS have features that are not found on any car in their relevant classes. It will take time, though, for Cadillac to again be recognized as the "standard of the world." Until that time, they should price their vehicles closer to Acura, as opposed to Lexus/Benz/BMW.

MARKVIII
12-24-08, 07:43 AM
I have to agree with turnerbend. The prices are WAY to high. No need to buy new when you can get a clean 1 year old car for 30-40 percent off sticker. The fit and finish are not world class. Too many sqweeks and rattles that need to be attended to. A nice car, A nice ride but not worth the price of new. Even my Cadillac service advisor admits to this. I find myself constantly comparing my V8 STS to a M35/M45 infinity. The infinity looks better, has better interior and better resale value. Again, if you can pick up a lightly used vehicle with 2 years left of warranty then thats they way to go.

The Tony Show
12-24-08, 09:56 AM
Considering Edmunds just named CTS as having the best resale value in its class, I'd say your inclusion of the CTS regarding resale values fails miserably.

As far as quality and value, my 2007 SRX has been absolutely bulletproof, and WAY more fun to drive than a comparably priced Lincoln or Lexus Crossover (which are built from the parts of lesser Camrys and Ford Edges). Even my Mother-in-Law who drives an Acura RDX commented on how much nicer the SRX interior was than her RDX. Where the RDX has a cheap molded dash and painted silver trim, the SRX has a hand stitched leather dash and real Sapele wood trim. Do you feel that Lexus and Infiniti are overpriced by 40% since they're "just cheaper Toyotas and Nissans"? Probably not.

All cars depreciate, so your comment that you can buy a used one cheap is from the "duh" category. Look up a two year old, $90,000 BMW M5 on Cars.com- they're selling in the $40s. Same goes for just about any car, regardless of make or model.

You wanted my opinion. Basically, my opinion is that this thread is a big, steaming pile of fail. :)

blustreak
12-24-08, 12:19 PM
I am surprised by the lower resale value on the STS. I drive 2500 miles a month and I have had my STS for less than 2 years--48000 miles now--and NO unscheduled maintenance. The car has never left me stranded. It feels substantial and it feels like it has higher quality components than other cars I have owned. I hope that over the next 5-10 years, Cadillac's resale value improves as more people come to recognize that these are very well engineered and solidly built cars.

Lord Cadillac
12-24-08, 12:52 PM
While Cadillac may not be as high quality as Lexus, Mercedes and BMW - they're improving and catching up Very quickly. The STS (getting kinda old now) is a fairly high quality vehicle. The CTS is a very high quality vehicle. The new SRX appears to be of very high quality as well. GM has learned how to build high quality products AND high quality interiors. From this point on, the playing field is nearly level. GM still has a few challenges to overcome (legacy costs).

As for there being no (or little) difference between a Cadillac and a Chevy, Dodge or Ford - that's just not true. There's a BIG difference in quality, ride and technology. Of the three brands, I could definitely tell which was a Cadillac with my eyes closed. All I'd need to do is drive the vehicle...

Dependability isn't bad anymore either...


Back in the mid '50s to late '70s my dad drove Cadillacs that was made of steel and was bullet proof. As teenagers, my brothers and myself would race them without dad knowledge. All we did was to keep the oil changed. I drove Cadillac from the early '80s until now. And man what a different. I love my Caddies and get good service with minimum repairs. But we are now driving on the past name of CADILLAC. The Cadillac STS and the CTS should be priced about the same as the Cheaper Dodge, Chevy, and Fords. You can keep fooling yourself and think you are buying the top of the line, but the proof is in the resale and dependability of the cars. Unless there is a big change before I buy my next car, the STS will be my last Cadillac. How do You feel?

turnerbend
12-24-08, 02:24 PM
Considering Edmunds just named CTS as having the best resale value in its class, I'd say your inclusion of the CTS regarding resale values fails miserably.

As far as quality and value, my 2007 SRX has been absolutely bulletproof, and WAY more fun to drive than a comparably priced Lincoln or Lexus Crossover (which are built from the parts of lesser Camrys and Ford Edges). Even my Mother-in-Law who drives an Acura RDX commented on how much nicer the SRX interior was than her RDX. Where the RDX has a cheap molded dash and painted silver trim, the SRX has a hand stitched leather dash and real Sapele wood trim. Do you feel that Lexus and Infiniti are overpriced by 40% since they're "just cheaper Toyotas and Nissans"? Probably not.

All cars depreciate, so your comment that you can buy a used one cheap is from the "duh" category. Look up a two year old, $90,000 BMW M5 on Cars.com- they're selling in the $40s. Same goes for just about any car, regardless of make or model.

You wanted my opinion. Basically, my opinion is that this thread is a big, steaming pile of fail. :)

Tony, donít be a hater, we all have opinions as well as other things. All cars are somewhat over priced if the truth be told. 2005-2009 Cadillac vs pre 1996 Cadillac have less quality material and workmanship, more widget, thingamajig, doohickey, gadget and more problems to deal with.
Lexus and Infiniti are just names you pay extra for also, like the STS and CTS. We all have more money than we need or we would be driving a Camry or Edges or what ever. Hell spend the money and complain. You paid your dues.

Just my opinion my friend.

Lord Cadillac
12-24-08, 04:10 PM
Tony, don’t be a hater, we all have opinions as well as other things. All cars are somewhat over priced if the truth be told. 2005-2009 Cadillac vs pre 1996 Cadillac have less quality material and workmanship, more widget, thingamajig, doohickey, gadget and more problems to deal with.
Lexus and Infiniti are just names you pay extra for also, like the STS and CTS. We all have more money than we need or we would be driving a Camry or Edges or what ever. Hell spend the money and complain. You paid your dues.

Just my opinion my friend.
If you knew Tony better, you'd realize that he was actually being very nice. :p Your statement of:


The Cadillac STS and the CTS should be priced about the same as the Cheaper Dodge, Chevy, and Fords. You can keep fooling yourself and think you are buying the top of the line, but the proof is in the resale and dependability of the cars.

...was kinda harsh.. I see no reason for a Cadillac to be priced like a Dodge, Chevy or Ford. By buying a Cadillac, we ARE buying "top of the line" from the Big 3. As already mentioned, dependability is fine.. Resale value is another story - but that's not because Cadillacs are cheap vehicles. There's a bad perception of GM and Cadillac which just doesn't hold true to the product any longer. I'm not saying the new Cadillac products are THE top of the line - but they're a far cry from a Chevy Impala, Ford Crown Victoria or Dodge Charger.

orconn
12-24-08, 04:49 PM
Where are all these squeaks and rattles coming from? I have a 1995 Seville STS with 76,000 miles no sqeaks or rattles whatsoever! Same went for the 1993 STS with 94,000 miles that just left our ownership. The 2002 SLS with 32,000 is tight and as quiet as you can get as far as squeaks and rattles go. So I am a little baffled by this complaint.

EChas3
12-24-08, 09:08 PM
The Chevy, Ford & Dodge materials and design don't compare to the STS. Even the Toyota, Nissan & Subaru feel cheap and flimsey by comparison. There may still be some quality cars but I don't think that includes the DTS & SRX. Almost every manufacturer has cut material quality as far as they calculate they can and still maintain their image.

My 1993 Roadmaster was better built than the Buicks of today. In many respects my wife's 1998 STS was better built than her 2007. She has bells & whistles (& more to go wrong) now but the old one had more convenient controls, more trunk & interior storage space and was one of the best looking Cadillacs ever.

mighty_quad4
12-25-08, 12:39 PM
Where are all these squeaks and rattles coming from? I have a 1995 Seville STS with 76,000 miles no sqeaks or rattles whatsoever! Same went for the 1993 STS with 94,000 miles that just left our ownership. The 2002 SLS with 32,000 is tight and as quiet as you can get as far as squeaks and rattles go. So I am a little baffled by this complaint.

i second that. my 2000 STS has 56k on the clock and has zero rattles.

some of that has to do with where you live. if you live some place where roads are more like fire roads then obviously ANY car will develop overtime.

turnerbend
12-25-08, 10:37 PM
Unless you riding around on a treadmill you going to hit some pothole, steel plates (infrustructure repairs) and road that is due repaving. New York, Atlanta, Dallas, San Francisco they all have them.

King Steve
12-28-08, 12:55 PM
I find that I never know when I hit a bump, because I simply can't feel it. The immaculate ride of a Cadillac certainly achieves the level of all the high end cars. Clearly there are more issues that go into price than smoothness, but as some others have said, I could easily tell a Caddy from any Chevy, Ford, etc with my eyes closed. Comparing Cadillac to these lower/middle of the road brands is just a joke.

turnerbend
01-15-09, 09:46 PM
I find that I never know when I hit a bump, because I simply can't feel it. The immaculate ride of a Cadillac certainly achieves the level of all the high end cars. Clearly there are more issues that go into price than smoothness, but as some others have said, I could easily tell a Caddy from any Chevy, Ford, etc with my eyes closed. Comparing Cadillac to these lower/middle of the road brands is just a joke.


In 1986 I had drove a Cadillac for 25years off and on. As you get older and drive different cars, you will find that there are a lot of cars and truck too that ride as good or better than the Cadillac. And with a clear mind, you will feel the bumps.

The Tony Show
01-15-09, 10:28 PM
Tony, donít be a hater

Did a 71 year-old just call me a "hater"?

:rofl:


we all have opinions

Exactly. You asked for ours, so I gave it to you.

That's the thing that kills me about "What do you think?" threads on Internet forums- people actually ask for opinions, then respond with things like "Hey man- I'm entitled to my opinion!!!" if you post a differing opinion.

If you don't want to know what we think- don't ask. :)

turnerbend
01-16-09, 12:04 AM
Did a 71 year-old just call me a "hater"?

:rofl:



Exactly. You asked for ours, so I gave it to you.

That's the thing that kills me about "What do you think?" threads on Internet forums- people actually ask for opinions, then respond with things like "Hey man- I'm entitled to my opinion!!!" if you post a differing opinion.

If you don't want to know what we think- don't ask. :)

Tony, 65 this year not 71, close enough. I'm glad to hear your dialogue and opinions. The good thing is that if you live long enough you will be 65+. We don't have to agree on everything you have some good points. I love my Cadillacs, but its hard to say they are better than other cars. LIFE IS BUT A DREAM.....

thebigjimsho
01-17-09, 11:58 PM
LIFE IS BUT A DREAM.....Then I guess you could say you're living quite a bit. So do you have to die to wake up?

King Steve
01-18-09, 10:12 AM
In 1986 I had drove a Cadillac for 25years off and on. As you get older and drive different cars, you will find that there are a lot of cars and truck too that ride as good or better than the Cadillac. And with a clear mind, you will feel the bumps.

Of course "not feeling" them was a slight exaggeration, but I think you understand the point. Perhaps I'm missing some car/truck out there, since I admittedly have not driven every single car and truck there is. So, here's your chance: give me an example of a non-luxury brand car or truck that you think is smoother than a Cadillac (I was specifically meaning V8 Cadillacs, though I didn't specify).

thebigjimsho
01-18-09, 02:03 PM
Tony, donít be a hater, we all have opinions as well as other things. All cars are somewhat over priced if the truth be told. 2005-2009 Cadillac vs pre 1996 Cadillac have less quality material and workmanship, more widget, thingamajig, doohickey, gadget and more problems to deal with.
Lexus and Infiniti are just names you pay extra for also, like the STS and CTS. We all have more money than we need or we would be driving a Camry or Edges or what ever. Hell spend the money and complain. You paid your dues.

Just my opinion my friend.Yeah, because paying big money for a car with vinyl looking leather, zero driving dynamics, doors of steel that rattle the rest of the car when closed, chrome looking plastic that wears to a bare yellow, being ungodly huge with much wasted space and having a ride that is so bouncy and undisciplined that only due to it's massive heft does it not pogo off the ground, yeah, that's a Cadillac to you.

You're just an old man who refuses to accept that having widgets, thingamajigs, doohickeys and gadgets can actually enhance the vehicle's experience. The new CTS has high quality materials, is solid as a tank, drives well, is very comfortable and has all the luxury and creature comforts that people in this century prefer.

Funny what old people think luxury is...

turnerbend
01-18-09, 02:56 PM
You're just an old man who refuses to accept that having widgets, thingamajigs, doohickeys and gadgets can actually enhance the vehicle's experience. The new CTS has high quality materials, is solid as a tank, drives well, is very comfortable and has all the luxury and creature comforts that people in this century prefer.

Funny what old people think luxury is...
I love all the comfort of the times. I have remotes, auto lights, auto power source, auto sprinkler systems, self cleaning pool set back thermostat and many many more gadgets that enhance life in general.
Let's wait about ten years and see if the mighty CTS with all the
widgets, thingamajigs, doohickeys and gadgets are still around. Of course we are getting accustom to recycling cars like coke cans.

turnerbend
01-18-09, 02:59 PM
Of course "not feeling" them was a slight exaggeration, but I think you understand the point. Perhaps I'm missing some car/truck out there, since I admittedly have not driven every single car and truck there is. So, here's your chance: give me an example of a non-luxury brand car or truck that you think is smoother than a Cadillac (I was specifically meaning V8 Cadillacs, though I didn't specify).

I got a 2003 F150 crew cab that is not a bad ride. You should try it.

gothicaleigh
01-20-09, 11:55 AM
I got a set of 20" that I removed from my 05 STS because of the ride quality. with the low profile tires you can feel every bump in the road.
But they look good.

:shifty

Additional unsprung weight, rolling mass, and abuse to the suspension beyond what the car was designed for does bad things to it's reliability and ride quality. Once the suspension sees that kind of abuse the car starts rattling, and reverting back to smaller wheels isn't going to fix it.

turnerbend
01-20-09, 11:25 PM
:shifty

Additional unsprung weight, rolling mass, and abuse to the suspension beyond what the car was designed for does bad things to it's reliability and ride quality. Once the suspension sees that kind of abuse the car starts rattling, and reverting back to smaller wheels isn't going to fix it.

This could be true.That is why I removed them after a few hundred miles. It did not harm the ride. Still ride like a Cadillac. No rattle, no abuse to suspension. Anybody want to buy a set of just about new 20" wheels and tires?

King Steve
01-23-09, 10:19 AM
I got a 2003 F150 crew cab that is not a bad ride. You should try it.

I've actually driven in an 04 f150, and yes it is a good ride. I will not try to say otherwise. Assuming the 03 is pretty much the same, I would not go so far as to say the quality of the ride approaches that of a Cadillac though, at least not a Northstar powered one. Anyway, enjoy your truck, and I'll enjoy my car I guess.

turnerbend
01-23-09, 07:54 PM
I've actually driven in an 04 f150, and yes it is a good ride. I will not try to say otherwise. Assuming the 03 is pretty much the same, I would not go so far as to say the quality of the ride approaches that of a Cadillac though, at least not a Northstar powered one. Anyway, enjoy your truck, and I'll enjoy my car I guess.

Of my three vehicle I drive the most for recreation, my Deville N*, F150 and the STS, I prefer the F150 over the STS.

caddydatldater
01-25-09, 04:00 PM
What is the winter package I hear a lot about on ebay and craigslist regarding cadillacs in the south? I thought it was just good common sense to put proper coolant in the system. Is there some aspect of this that I am missing or don't know about for cadillacs?

gothicaleigh
01-27-09, 10:10 AM
What is the winter package I hear a lot about on ebay and craigslist regarding cadillacs in the south? I thought it was just good common sense to put proper coolant in the system. Is there some aspect of this that I am missing or don't know about for cadillacs?

Maybe they are referring to the optional engine block heater and heated seats?

c5 rv
01-27-09, 11:42 PM
What is the winter package I hear a lot about on ebay and craigslist regarding cadillacs in the south?

I think on foreign cars, this usually refers to a set of options like heated seats, heated mirrors, and headlight washers. Maybe they are referring to the heated windshield washers. It could even be referring to AWD.

Jesda
01-28-09, 11:45 PM
I'm driving a Crossfire, basically a rebodied Mercedes SLK. Cadillac easily wins on reliability.

turnerbend
01-30-09, 07:35 PM
What is the winter package I hear a lot about on ebay and craigslist regarding cadillacs in the south? I thought it was just good common sense to put proper coolant in the system. Is there some aspect of this that I am missing or don't know about for cadillacs?

Dater,
Coolant in all cars are required not just for protection from winter weather, it also protect the engine from corrosion and summertime heat(boilover). Is there some aspect of this that I am missing???? Could you further explain please.

miked
02-06-09, 01:58 AM
I'm new to this thread, but here's a data point. We have an 08 SRX AWD V8, loaded. Listed for $52K or so I believe. We bought it one year old, 12K miles, $31K. 40% depreciation in one year.

My feelings for the SRX and the STS, the two cars we've purchased, are that the "employee price" (i.e., the various deals that GM runs from time to time) really should be the MSRP. My 08 STS listed at $65K or so, and we got it for $52K. I think it is a $52K -- over $60K, not so much. Same with the SRX. Loaded, it's a $40-something-K car, not a $50-something-K car.

Just my two cents.

turnerbend
02-06-09, 06:51 PM
I'm new to this thread, but here's a data point. We have an 08 SRX AWD V8, loaded. Listed for $52K or so I believe. We bought it one year old, 12K miles, $31K. 40% depreciation in one year.

My feelings for the SRX and the STS, the two cars we've purchased, are that the "employee price" (i.e., the various deals that GM runs from time to time) really should be the MSRP. My 08 STS listed at $65K or so, and we got it for $52K. I think it is a $52K -- over $60K, not so much. Same with the SRX. Loaded, it's a $40-something-K car, not a $50-something-K car.

Just my two cents.
Miked,
When I started this thread, I got blasted from everybody. I still believe they are over priced.

thebigjimsho
02-07-09, 06:41 AM
:yawn: