: Best Tire For Max Traction (Cold Weather)



thoredan
12-22-08, 03:05 PM
The dam drone.... No Just kidding....:thehand:

The factory tires are useless in the cold here in the North East, Its not even recomended to drive with them under 38 F

I want to get snow tires for it but think All season will be better?

I have the SRT8 Jeep for snow, this car is just scarry to drive it spins in second if you get on it even in the dry ( tires too cold )

Any Ideas?

Kadonny
12-22-08, 04:02 PM
I had the Goodyear all Season F1 tires on my STS-V and I loved them.....fairly cheap too.

Short-Throw
12-22-08, 05:42 PM
The factory tires are useless in the cold here in the North East, Its not even recomended to drive with them under 38 F

I want to get snow tires for it but think All season will be better?

Any Ideas?


GM tested many tires with the CTS-V. They found the Pirelli's to perform the best in both cold temps and snow. They are also a crowd favorite for those that drive BMW Ms here all winter.

The required sizes are:

Winter 240 Sottozero

Front -- 255/40R19
Rear -- 285/35R19

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp?make=Pirelli&model=Winter+240+Sottozero

If you'd like further info PM and I'm happy to call you.


Mike

caddiedrummer
12-23-08, 12:19 AM
Where does it say not to drive the "factory" tires under 38 degrees? I have to say I don't understand all the chatter about using the Pilots in cold weather (as opposed to snow/ice) I have never seen tires rated for cold air--that is not to say they aren't --I have just never seen it.

I have had variations of Pilot Sports on a number of cars and driven them in below freezing weather--maybe I was just lucky. I find it hard to believe Caddy would put a risky tire on a 4 door passenger sedan (even one that with 556 HP) I am sure these aren't the best tires in snow etc but I don't understand what difference cold conditions would have on them--particularly given how quickly heat builds up in tires.

Short-Throw
12-23-08, 01:55 AM
I don't understand all the chatter about using the Pilots in cold weather (as opposed to snow/ice)

caddiedrummer,

I think there are a few of us from the Midwest who have experienced unusually cold weather of late, hence the discussion. At 0 temps the tires remain cold. I agree with you that sans snow/ice, a cautious driver will be okay on most days.

Also, there are different Michelin Sport tires. Ask anybody who has driven on MPSCs in cold weather how long they take to heat up, even on track.

The stock tires are fine in the cold weather, but there are better options. Winter tires are not a requisite, they simply make driving the car a little easier. Take a look at GM's fleet of new Vs in MI and see what rubber they are wearing in the Winter.



Mike

Florian
12-23-08, 02:07 AM
whatever tire is on your snow vehicle....which should NEVER be the V....


F

caddiedrummer
12-23-08, 02:28 AM
[QUOTE=Short-Throw;1716340]caddiedrummer,

I think there are a few of us from the Midwest who have experienced unusually cold weather of late, hence the discussion. At 0 temps the tires remain cold. I agree with you that sans snow/ice, a cautious driver will be okay on most days.

Also, there are different Michelin Sport tires. Ask anybody who has driven on MPSCs in cold weather how long they take to heat up, even on track.

The stock tires are fine in the cold weather, but there are better options. Winter tires are not a requisite, they simply make driving the car a little easier. Take a look at GM's fleet of new Vs in MI and see what rubber they are wearing in the Winter.

Mike:

What makes tire less safe in cold weather? How do its characteristics change? I have been to many an off season NASCAR test with drivers at speeds of 130 to 190 MPH on Goodyear slicks in very cold weather. I hear you, but I just don't understand the concept. How is a PS2 different in 20 degrees vs 40 degrees? Not trying to be smart alec--just asking because maybe it is my lack of understanding.

caddiedrummer
12-23-08, 10:45 AM
Mike

YOU ARE RIGHT. Called Michelin--they say these tires can crack and lose traction in cold weather.

chris1268
12-23-08, 11:22 AM
Mike

YOU ARE RIGHT. Called Michelin--they say these tires can crack and lose traction in cold weather.

Did they happen to say why? I am now curious as well.

Short-Throw
12-23-08, 11:31 AM
Mike:

What makes tire less safe in cold weather? How do its characteristics change? I have been to many an off season NASCAR test with drivers at speeds of 130 to 190 MPH on Goodyear slicks in very cold weather. I hear you, but I just don't understand the concept. How is a PS2 different in 20 degrees vs 40 degrees? Not trying to be smart alec--just asking because maybe it is my lack of understanding.


A Pro driving a race car is a far cry from the average person getting in a vehicle. It's a double edged sword, it's tricky to warm up tires in the cold having no grip, yet going very fast warms up tires enabling grip. Passenger cars don't see half these speeds so higher temps are tougher to attain where the real heat comes from.

Also, I'm not sure which tires and temps you are referring to, most slicks cannot see temps below 40 degrees because they will crack. (when not being used and exposed outside). I have to run Hoosiers until the end of April around here before I can switch. Perhaps there is a NASCAR tire with different characteristics that aren't subject to this?

I teach driving at Autobahn which includes accident avoidance and cold/rain safety. Topics covered include getting a car loose and saving it. Our students range from your everyday soccer mom to police officers. We have also run a Winter Autocross (where slow is fast, LOL). The performance tires do not handle as well in these events. That doesn't mean you can't use them, it's just not the best option.


From carjunky.com


.....NC)--Every year there is this dilemma: should you mount winter tires or should you stay with your all season tires? We always question is it going to snow a lot or is it just going to be cold and will our all-season tires be good enough. Well here is some news for you, winter tires are not only designed to work better in snow, slush and ice but also when it simply gets cold.

the tire's tread rubber needs to remain flexible to do the job it was designed to do. "Good winter tires are designed to handle every aspect of winter driving."

In a study done by the Quebec Ministry of Transport comparing all season vs winter tires, results showed that you can get up to 25 percent better breaking and 38 percent better collision avoidance by using a proper winter tire.

The ministry summary concluded: "Winter tires perform better than the All Season tires, particularly in very cold temperatures. Furthermore, during braking, a crucial component of road safety, winter tires do provide superior results when compared to All Season tires.

Consequently, any driver concerned with vehicle safety will have good winter tires installed on their vehicle" during the cold weather season.

Many summer and all season tires start to lose their tread compound flexibility as the ambient temperature drops. Bridgman states that with the current increasing trend for vehicles to come equipped with performance tires right from the factory, it is even more important to consider "Cold Weather Tires" for winter driving.




From:

http://therubberassociationofcanada.blogspot.com/2008/11/winter-tires-matter.html

Winter Tires Matter!


“The latest generations of winter tires offer motorists an important driving performance advantage in all winter-driving conditions, including dry road surfaces,” says Glenn Maidment, President of the Rubber Association of Canada (RAC), which represents Canada’s tire makers. “All tire rubber will begin to stiffen as the weather gets colder, but today’s winter tires maintain their elasticity even at extremely low temperatures approaching minus 30 degrees Celsius. The result is superior traction and handling whether the roadway is snowy, icy, slush covered or dry.”

Traditionally, many drivers, particularly those who live in cities or towns where the streets are cleared regularly, have opted for all-season tires to avoid the cost and inconvenience of the bi-annual winter tire changeover.

Even though all-season tires can provide safe all-weather performance, drivers need to know that the efficiency of winter tires greatly surpasses them once temperatures fall below seven degrees Celsius. Modern winter tires offer up to 50 per cent more winter traction than all-season tires, which translates to shorter stopping distances and better vehicle cornering and control.

“The cold-weather traction advantage offered by today’s winter tires is considerable,” says Maidment. "Motorists should stop thinking of winter tires as ‘snow tires’ and start thinking of them as ‘cold weather’ tires"



Remember, it's not how good of a driver you are, but how to handle the unexpected and having the proper equipment to do it. Winter tires aren't a requirement, but they make foul weather driving a little safer, even if it's just cold out.

Hard to believe we made it from the days of bias-ply tires and no ABS huh? :)


Mike

Short-Throw
12-23-08, 11:39 AM
Mike

YOU ARE RIGHT. Called Michelin--they say these tires can crack and lose traction in cold weather.

:thumbsup: :cheers:

It's the price we pay to brag that our V2 can run N-ring in 7:59.XX.

Kadonny
12-23-08, 11:45 AM
Mike

YOU ARE RIGHT. Called Michelin--they say these tires can crack and lose traction in cold weather.


Yup, last night when leaving work, it was about 18 degrees outside. When I cut the tires to back out, they chattered drastically on the cold pavement. It was like a block of ice turning on a frozen pond. They were better once I got driving and warmed them a bit, but I am not taking the car out in below freezing temps again until I can get cold weather tires on it.

chris1268
12-23-08, 01:01 PM
A Pro driving a race car is a far cry from the average person getting in a vehicle. It's a double edged sword, it's tricky to warm up tires in the cold having no grip, yet going very fast warms up tires enabling grip. Passenger cars don't see half these speeds so higher temps are tougher to attain where the real heat comes from.

Also, I'm not sure which tires and temps you are referring to, most slicks cannot see temps below 40 degrees because they will crack. (when not being used and exposed outside). I have to run Hoosiers until the end of April around here before I can switch. Perhaps there is a NASCAR tire with different characteristics that aren't subject to this?

I teach driving at Autobahn which includes accident avoidance and cold/rain safety. Topics covered include getting a car loose and saving it. Our students range from your everyday soccer mom to police officers. We have also run a Winter Autocross (where slow is fast, LOL). The performance tires do not handle as well in these events. That doesn't mean you can't use them, it's just not the best option.


From carjunky.com


.....NC)--Every year there is this dilemma: should you mount winter tires or should you stay with your all season tires? We always question is it going to snow a lot or is it just going to be cold and will our all-season tires be good enough. Well here is some news for you, winter tires are not only designed to work better in snow, slush and ice but also when it simply gets cold.

the tire's tread rubber needs to remain flexible to do the job it was designed to do. "Good winter tires are designed to handle every aspect of winter driving."

In a study done by the Quebec Ministry of Transport comparing all season vs winter tires, results showed that you can get up to 25 percent better breaking and 38 percent better collision avoidance by using a proper winter tire.

The ministry summary concluded: "Winter tires perform better than the All Season tires, particularly in very cold temperatures. Furthermore, during braking, a crucial component of road safety, winter tires do provide superior results when compared to All Season tires.

Consequently, any driver concerned with vehicle safety will have good winter tires installed on their vehicle" during the cold weather season.

Many summer and all season tires start to lose their tread compound flexibility as the ambient temperature drops. Bridgman states that with the current increasing trend for vehicles to come equipped with performance tires right from the factory, it is even more important to consider "Cold Weather Tires" for winter driving.




From:

http://therubberassociationofcanada.blogspot.com/2008/11/winter-tires-matter.html

Winter Tires Matter!


“The latest generations of winter tires offer motorists an important driving performance advantage in all winter-driving conditions, including dry road surfaces,” says Glenn Maidment, President of the Rubber Association of Canada (RAC), which represents Canada’s tire makers. “All tire rubber will begin to stiffen as the weather gets colder, but today’s winter tires maintain their elasticity even at extremely low temperatures approaching minus 30 degrees Celsius. The result is superior traction and handling whether the roadway is snowy, icy, slush covered or dry.”

Traditionally, many drivers, particularly those who live in cities or towns where the streets are cleared regularly, have opted for all-season tires to avoid the cost and inconvenience of the bi-annual winter tire changeover.

Even though all-season tires can provide safe all-weather performance, drivers need to know that the efficiency of winter tires greatly surpasses them once temperatures fall below seven degrees Celsius. Modern winter tires offer up to 50 per cent more winter traction than all-season tires, which translates to shorter stopping distances and better vehicle cornering and control.

“The cold-weather traction advantage offered by today’s winter tires is considerable,” says Maidment. "Motorists should stop thinking of winter tires as ‘snow tires’ and start thinking of them as ‘cold weather’ tires"



Remember, it's not how good of a driver you are, but how to handle the unexpected and having the proper equipment to do it. Winter tires aren't a requirement, but they make foul weather driving a little safer, even if it's just cold out.

Hard to believe we made it from the days of bias-ply tires and no ABS huh? :)


Mike

As always Mike, thank you for the information. Knowledge is power - like we need anymore with this car - :shhh:

GMX322V S/C
12-23-08, 08:36 PM
...Even though all-season tires can provide safe all-weather performance, drivers need to know that the efficiency of winter tires greatly surpasses them once temperatures fall below seven degrees Celsius. Modern winter tires offer up to 50 per cent more winter traction than all-season tires...Sheesh. 7 degrees C = 44.6 degrees F; lately it's been regularly getting down below that overnight even here in SoCal. I would assume the threshold would be even higher for max performance summer tires (vs. all-seasons) too...

Short-Throw
12-23-08, 09:15 PM
Sheesh. 7 degrees C = 44.6 degrees F; lately it's been regularly getting down below that overnight even here in SoCal. I would assume the threshold would be even higher for max performance summer tires (vs. all-seasons) too...

Well 45 degrees doesn't render the tires ineffective, they just wont be 100%. It's the plummeting temps that really hurt the pliability. I wouldn't change tires if I lived in your area.

Razorecko
12-23-08, 10:49 PM
Yea the jeep srt8 stock tires dont function too well in the cold. Heck with -20/-30f w/ the windhchill here in chicago EVERYTHING functions differently. I'm glad i have my snow tires setup on the jeep. Its chhheeeap insurance...You dont get snow tires after an accident and say " heck, I should get snow tires now ". The $1600 i spent for rims and snow tires will last me 3 seasons before i will need new snow tires. But also the rotation will help make my summer tires last alot longer too. So all you really end up paying for is a spare set of cheap winter rims. That is worth the insurance....

GMX322V S/C
12-24-08, 05:54 AM
Well 45 degrees doesn't render the tires ineffective, they just wont be 100%. It's the plummeting temps that really hurt the pliability. I wouldn't change tires if I lived in your area.I wasn't planning on it, but I'll be keeping your observations (and chris1268's "moment") in mind if I ever get caught out on a road trip up through the Sierras or something like that.