: Dealership Antics...



Chopper9
06-26-04, 02:14 AM
Stopped into my local Caddy dealer about 2 weeks ago to see if they had any CTS-V's in stock. I've been thinking about getting one.

They didnt. So I test drove a regular one, and then spent about 20 minutes talking to the salesman. Told him I want to test drive one, I am GMS, and on and on. He told me they had one, sold it on ebay, and they wouldnt get another til 2005. I thought it was wierd, so I told him to call me if they got one in.

I went home and searched via the Caddy web page for CTS-V's in stock around me. I quickly found about 10 within 50 miles.

A couple days later, the same salesman called me at home. He said they just got a CTS_V in and they were getting it ready for the showroom floor. He said to come on in and test drive it.

I got ready, and drove 25 minutes to the dealer. I seen the black beast right there on the showroom floor. I said "Are we gonne drive this baby or what?" and he said... "Drive it? um... I dunno... lemme check..." and as he headed towards the manager's stage... i knew something was up.

He came back moments later and said "... uh, yea... we are gonna have to do an application and see where the numbers are before you drive this."

I replied "Where the numbers are? You mean you want me to do 1/2 hour of paper work before I even know if I like it?"

"Well, yea.. everybody and thier mother wants to drive this car! We cant just let anyone take it without seeing what kind of deal we are getting."

"Deal your are getting? I already told you I was GMS!"

"Oh we cant sell it to you GMS! We wont even sell it to you at sticker!"

I said "You called me, told me to come down, test drive it.. you knew I was GMS from my first visit!"

"Well I didnt mean Id sell you it at GMS."

"Thanks for wasting my entire afternoon" I said as I stormed out.

I couldnt believe it. As if it was a Ferrari and I walked in with a wife beater on.

This is the sh*t that ticks me off about car dealers. The next day I went back to my list, called 3 of the 9 other dealers around me, and they told me I could test drive them before any applications, and they woould be happy to sell me them at GMS. lol

rabid
06-26-04, 02:40 AM
No one let me test drive one. The place that did, I bought from them. But they sucked ass. That's another story.

DgtalPimp
06-26-04, 03:40 AM
I do wish I could say I was also sucked into some bull sheep story by a dealer. I showed up drove a vortec V (not stock since mine was still in transit). When mine showed up, I asked to drive it and make sure the diff was not night and day.



The dealer dealt with my very short time crunch and said sure show up and take her for a spin.



I filled out some minor (one sheet) paperwork, and drove my V. I came back after 15 – 20 minutes. The sales guy asked what was wrong. I said hey I am giving back yo0ur car and will be by on Monday to pick her up. He said I thought you would take her for the weekend, other wise you wouldn’t have filled out the paperwork.



I hate hearing about your sh1tty dealership exp.



Dgtal

baf_ctsv
06-26-04, 08:00 AM
My belief is that the Caddy dealerships are not used to having a car such as the V. One where the buyer is a car enthusiast, and the car is one of high performance. I too had some trouble in NJ getting a test drive until I started quoting the inventory from the GM web site . Then the dealers realized I could take my pick. Then again back in '99 I wanted to testdrive a Vette the dealers were just as smug. They honestly thought I would buy one without driving one. Finally the let me drive demo with 6000 mi. That car was such a P.O.S. that I swore off GM until now.

globed70
06-26-04, 08:44 AM
Let's see...

Alot of you guys complain about buying a car with more than the delivery miles.... yet, you want to test drive a low volume car. Can't have it both ways. It's not as if this is a Porsche dealer with dozens of these cars, both new, demo, and almost new sitting on the lot waiting for test drives. I didn't test drive my V, as my only concern was driving position. When I was one of the first M5 deliveries, I couldn't test drive that either. And prior to buying my Viper, I had only had 10 minutes in one autocrossing 6 months prior. What is a dealer supposed to do with a low volume car, driven (usually poorly) by a variety of potential buyers and tire kickers??? :rant2:

b4z
06-26-04, 09:45 AM
globed70,

Good point. How many of us want a car that has 50-200 miles on it that was test driven like it was stolen.
We all know that these cars are started up dead cold.
Driven out of the parking lot and hammered through the gears.
About the worst thing you can do to any car much less one that
is brand new and needs to be broken in properly.

Personally I would find a CTS manual car and see if I were comfortable with it. If I was I would have no problem buying a V without driving it.

TNT V
06-26-04, 10:02 AM
Let's see...

Alot of you guys complain about buying a car with more than the delivery miles.... yet, you want to test drive a low volume car. Can't have it both ways. It's not as if this is a Porsche dealer with dozens of these cars, both new, demo, and almost new sitting on the lot waiting for test drives. I didn't test drive my V, as my only concern was driving position. When I was one of the first M5 deliveries, I couldn't test drive that either. And prior to buying my Viper, I had only had 10 minutes in one autocrossing 6 months prior. What is a dealer supposed to do with a low volume car, driven (usually poorly) by a variety of potential buyers and tire kickers??? :rant2: I agree whole heartedly. I want my new car with delivery miles only. I have never expected any dealer to let me test drive a high demand, low availability car. I always do my research first before I decide what I want to buy and have never been disappointed having my first test ride be the drive home. Sorry can't agree with your frustrations. :rolleyes2

Chopper9
06-26-04, 10:22 AM
I guess if the seating position is ok, I should buy one, huh?

You guys are CRAAAAZY.! You are gonna spend 50+ K on a caddy and not even test drive it? WHAAAAT? I could go to BMW, Mercedes, Jag, Porsche, Lexus, ect. and have NO problem test driving an equivilent car... as I already have.

I never have, nor will I ever in the future buy a car without driving it first.

The price tag on this car isnt even one of caddy's upper end models. I could see a little hassle on the XLR, but a CTS? Come on!

Nope, Ill go to a dealer who has his head on straight.

trekster
06-26-04, 10:52 AM
I went to my local dealer where my dad purchased a Escalade Ext. We went to the person (Fleet Manager) that my dad bought his Ext from. Told him that we're interested in the V. He took out the key let us check the car out and asked if we wanted to test drive it . So, we did then 3 weeks later I ordered and picked up the V.

miscreant
06-26-04, 10:55 AM
I guess if the seating position is ok, I should buy one, huh?

You guys are CRAAAAZY.! You are gonna spend 50+ K on a caddy and not even test drive it? WHAAAAT? I could go to BMW, Mercedes, Jag, Porsche, Lexus, ect. and have NO problem test driving an equivilent car... as I already have.

I never have, nor will I ever in the future buy a car without driving it first.

The price tag on this car isnt even one of caddy's upper end models. I could see a little hassle on the XLR, but a CTS? Come on!

Nope, Ill go to a dealer who has his head on straight.
Okay, I can't deny that you shouldn't have been told something than it change when you got there, but there are some factors that I completely understand.

1) I think I read in another post (in the STS forum) that you liked the CTS, but it was too small for your taste. Could this "not sure if I want it" have shown through to them?

2) The dealership didn't have any. Then they had one. I understand completely them not wanting to let you test drive it without verifying that you indeed *wanted* to buy it (as long as it drove like you *knew* it would), because just from being on this board, the V loses value to customers past about 40 miles! You can't put miles on these things without having to give a discount it seems. I'm sure the paperwork you needed to do was minimal compared to the interest in purchasing a limited production vehicle like the V. All it would have done was solidify the fact that you were serious in your interest of the V.

If 10 people came in that day and said the same things you did, should they have gotten to test drive, too?

3) 95% of dealerships still do not accept GMS or supplier, and are around sticker sale price.

Sandy
06-26-04, 11:09 AM
I worked as a new/used car salesman for 27 years. Herewith some insight:

#1. The decession whether or not ANY car is going out on a test drive is almost NEVER the salesman's decession. The person who makes that decession is the Sales Manager and/or the General Manager. Only in a very very small dealership, out in the boonies or rural areas does the salesman make that decession.

#2. Whenever a ~HOT~ new car, especially a High Performance vehicle, or an Ultra Luxury vehicle or a Limited Production vehicle comes out, it causes alot of tire kickers to come in. When the Viper came out, I was selling DODGE. I can't tell you how many 20 year olds came in wanting to test drive one. We actually could have had a Viper out on the road on a Demo 6 out of the 12 hours a day we were open!

#3. The way to get a car YOU want to drive on a Demo; out & in your hands, is to go through all the motions of buying it, PRIOR. I know of NO dealership that's going to release a car only because a person comes in and says "I wanna drive that car". If, on the other hand, you sit down with a sales rep and discuss HOW you are going to pay for it, and go thru all the motions that a normal sale entails, and then request to "TRY THE CAR" (rather than can I drive it) the chances are 90% going to be positive.

#4. If you don't wanna reveal your finances, and take all the time neceessary to fill out finances applications, then just say that you are intending to pay cash. THAT cuts thru all the BS. Should you decide to buy from that dealership - then you can say that upon further financial investagation, you have decided to leave your money in the bank and to take advantage of their financing, or at least to inquire about same.

#5. It's all in the customer's approach, and how they come off. It cannot be rushed! A mutual bonding and a sincere buyer (in thier minds) takes at least 30 minutes to establish. You would not expect a Real Estate sales person to show a person a 2 million dollar house, when the prospective buyer pulls up in a 1988 Taurus, without some inquiry as to finances, and this is very similiar in nature.

#6. We'd let a Dodge Neon or Stratus go out on a Demo 99% of the time, but a Viper, well that's a bit different. We did sell a Viper to a 21 year old, and send him out on a Demo after 10 minutes, however! His picture had been in the paper. He won 1 mill in the lottery.

#7 Just FYI, if you come in, and I release a car to you for a "Demo" and you should decide to steal it ~ Insurance companies will FIGHT not to pay, as the dealership represenative agreeably released the car to that person (not intended to mean YOU, just anyone). It's viewed differrently by them, than an outright theft off the lot at 4AM.

6104696
06-26-04, 11:14 AM
I'm sorry to hear about the bad cad dealer experiences. Here in Northern VA, and also on the Jersey Shore where I ultimately purchased, I got to test drive but there was a clear understanding that if it passed my rigorous inspection I would buy it (the fact that it took 5 cars and 3 months to get one that passed my inspection is a whole other story!).


But I found all of the dealers to be honest and straightforward, with no gameplaying at all. And the dealer employees that are members of this board are also a cut above what you might expect.....

Don't let a couple of bad apples spoil the bunch.

As for delivery miles vs. test drive miles, that is always a conundrum when buying a car off the lot. If you want delivery miles then maybe you need to order...but then you need to wait and wait....and then you take what you get in terms of the car they deliver.....(or get lucky and get in a car that just rolled off the truck....)

Doug

Cal
06-26-04, 11:17 AM
I do wish I could say I was also sucked into some bull sheep story by a dealer. I showed up drove a vortec V (not stock since mine was still in transit). When mine showed up, I asked to drive it and make sure the diff was not night and day.



The dealer dealt with my very short time crunch and said sure show up and take her for a spin.


Dgtal


You were buying at Lund? They let you drive a blown V?

Sandy
06-26-04, 11:25 AM
Regarding price.

You'll almost ALWAYS get a lower price (all things being equal) by ordering the car & waiting the 6 weeks. This because the dealership pays NO floor plan on the car. It comes in and goes right out, bing, bang boom & done!

You'll almost always pay a HIGHER price, if the dealership LOCATES the car for you at another dealership !!

The internet is a good thing. It allows you to search for the car you want, in your area and GO TO THAT DEALERSHIP to see the car!! Once another dealer locates the car FOR YOU and calls the OTHER dealership to verify its availability and inquires about it & requests a FAX of its invoice, that car is on hold at the other place, and if you THEN go there, they are not gonna talk to you regading it. Locate what you want and go to who has it. If you can't do business with them, wait at least 48 hours before going to another dealer & telling them you want the purple 12-cyl minvan at XYZ motors in Anytown, USA. Less than 48 hours, you can bet XYZ Motors will know exactly what you are doing, and will tell your ABC motors that the thing is "SOLD", knowing that you'll come back to XYZ to buy it. Common Sence.

Brett
06-26-04, 11:29 AM
I could go to BMW, Mercedes, Jag, Porsche, Lexus, ect. and have NO problem test driving an equivilent car... as I already have.

what do you consider equivalent? price? im sure you could go to all those dealers and easily test drive equivalently priced cars. but if we're talking low-volume hi-performance cars, then id be very surprised to see you walk in and take an M5, E55, S55, SL55 etc out for a spin without some pre-screening

miscreant
06-26-04, 11:50 AM
I could go to BMW, Mercedes, Jag, Porsche, Lexus, ect. and have NO problem test driving an equivilent car... as I already have.
Doesn't this indicate that you are indeed just in the "test drive" phase?

thebigjimsho
06-26-04, 12:17 PM
Would ANY of these places have let you test drive a brand new, low volume, top of the line performance model?

I would've loved to see you try to drive a brand new M5 back in 2000 when they were just arriving.

Or the Porsche 911 GT2?

How about the new Jaguar XJR?

Unless you have the serious benjamins and a reputation as such that the dealer knew of, you'd be hard pressed to get a drive in any of those cars.

I don't have a lot of dough. I sold 2 cars, saved for the past 8 months and worked extra to afford my new V. It's the only car of its kind in its price range. I read enough about it to know it would do everything I wanted of it. And i sure as heck don't want any miles on it. And if it has test driven miles, then it sure be at least $3-4G under sticker.

Bought mine on May 27th with 7 miles on it. Black on neutral w/ sunroof.:cool:

DgtalPimp
06-26-04, 12:29 PM
You were buying at Lund? They let you drive a blown V?
Cal -- Yes they didn't have any V's on the lot, and like I have said I have a friend there and he told me to take the blown one out. I think a few other customers (read not everyone that asked) have been able to take the blown V (http://www.lundcadillac.com/ACCENLARGE.CFM?ID=55&dlr=LUND) for a spin. BTW yes, it is that fast. :burn:

Dgtal

urbanski
06-26-04, 01:19 PM
My local dealer sales manager drives a V....that's the test drive mule for the dealer. This way, every other V run through their place has delivery miles only.
That's a great solution IMO...

The Jag dealer in town had no problem letting me drive the S-type R.

globed70
06-26-04, 02:13 PM
I guess if the seating position is ok, I should buy one, huh?

You guys are CRAAAAZY.! You are gonna spend 50+ K on a caddy and not even test drive it? WHAAAAT? I could go to BMW, Mercedes, Jag, Porsche, Lexus, ect. and have NO problem test driving an equivilent car... as I already have.

I never have, nor will I ever in the future buy a car without driving it first.

The price tag on this car isnt even one of caddy's upper end models. I could see a little hassle on the XLR, but a CTS? Come on!

Nope, Ill go to a dealer who has his head on straight.

The issue is in the limited edition nature of the CTS-V AND the amount of power on tap. If a dealer only has 1 at a time, do they want to turn it into a beat up demo with some miles? When I bought my 2000 M5, there was a 6-12 month waiting list... no one got test drives.

Although it may not work for you, some people ARE comfortable reading the reviews/specs and then making sure they fit OK in the car. And besides the comfort factor, WHAT does a 5 mile test drive tell you? How the car accelerates when cold? How shitty you drive with an unfamiliar clutch/tranny? How well the car handles on unfamiliar roads? How well the car brakes from 40mph will the salesman reaching for the sick bag? Not much IMHO....

5CTRVET
06-26-04, 02:53 PM
I have dealt with this since I was in my early 20's. I have busted my butt to get where I am today (and were I was back then). At the time I was into the Italian exotics. I decide that I wanted to purchase a new "toy". I went to the local Lambo dealer. I walked in and not a single salesman would give me the time of day. I walked over and sat down in a yellow Diablo VT. Within 15 seconds a guy shouts across the showroom, "Sir that is a $215,000 car. Get out of the car and please leave. This is not the car show." So I politely got out of the car and left the dealership. I then called down to the Lambo dealer in Atlanta, GA and asked if they had any Diablo VTs in stock. They said that they had 2 that had just came in and I thanked them for the info. Later the next week I was in Atlanta visiting some friends and dropped into the dealership and repeated the same process I did in Chicago. As I walked over to the Diablo VT I was met by a very polite salesman. I motioned for the door handle and he quickly reached out and opened it for me and motioned for me to sit while asking if I had any questions. Needless to say, 5 minutes later I was on the road test driving that car. I had it shipped to my house back in Chicago 4 days later. I decided to visit that dealer in Chicago again. I drove up in the Diablo VT and parked right in front. This time 2 men came out before I had even shut my door! They were more or less drooling all over me trying to take care of me. I asked to speak to the sales manager but was told he was gone for the day but the general manager was in and showed me to his office. As he stood up, I instantly recognized him...he was the guy that told me to leave the week before! Well I told him that I had purchased the car down in Atlanta due to his actions, that I would never spend a dime in his store, and would share my story within all of the car/track clubs I belonged to. I then walked out of his office. I have since seen him at several club outings and he tries to apologize at every one of them. I asked his rep to tell him to stop since I was never going to change my mind and I have not heard from him since.
The thing that really irks me is that during that first visit to his showroom I had driven up in a mint 512M so it's not like they couldn't "pre-qualify" me when I pulled up. I have never and will never fill out any pre-qual paperwork. They either let me drive the car or I'll buy somewhere else. I ran into it with my V. Three dealers wouldn't let me drive the car and they all were asking $4000 over MSRP. I emailed a dealer 45 miles from me and told them I would want to test drive the car, pay $1000 under MSRP and wanted $15000 for my trade (2001 Road King)...I had told all of the dealers the same thing. If they accepted the offer I would be there later that day to test drive the car. They accepted and I drive the V home that evening.
I have run into similar situations with many of my other cars and have always gone back and rubbed the dealers nose in it. Yeah I may have to ship or drive the car from a differnet city or even state but I will never deal with anyone that judges me!
You know the old saying, don't judge a book by it's cover! I have run all of my businesses under the premise that every customer is a trillionaire and should be treated like such.

NO dealer should not allow a potential customer to test drive a car...no matter how limited/special it is and/or how the customer looks like. I usually wear jeans/shorts and a golf shirt. I walked into that Atlanta dealership wearing shorts and a Harley t-shirt and driving a mitsu galant rental car.

Anyway, sorry so long.

DgtalPimp
06-26-04, 03:40 PM
5CTRVET -- So you the younger version of the Dirty farmer that wanted to pay cash for a car. I think going back to the dealer is brilliant. Cheers to you for having the rep address that issue. that will hopefully affect the dealer and his future dealings as well.



Dgtal

cadillac04
06-26-04, 04:04 PM
My dealer called me that a Silver 'V' had arrived. When I got there he told me that it was delayed for 2 more days. I got another price on my trade(CTS) on the V purchase. It was a low ball price from a month ago but he did raise it some. I was still not too happy with the trade price but I asked why it was slightly better. I just got a smile. The salesmanager just said that I should stop back.
When I got home a message on my machine from another dealer (I had only been there on time 3 months before) called and told me that a Black 'V' had arrived and wanted to know if I was interested. I asked if I could come to see it. He explained that it still wasn't prepped but available. I got there and asked if I could drive it. He agreed immediately to no more than 4 miles. I came back and asked him to give me a price on my trade. He gave more than the dealer where I bought my car from. I signed that night.
My original dealer called that his 'V' came in and told me that I could see it. I drove over in my new 'V' much to his surprise. He told me that the V was already sold. Later I found out from one of the techs that he got another buyer into a bidding war for the Silver V and he asked if I was one of the bidders. I said not. I guessed that they really wanted to sell their V at higher than window but needed at least 2 or more bidders to get the price higher. I figured that's why my trade price got slightly higher to keep me in the fray. I'm glad that I wasn't involved. I paid MSRP and have my V within 4 hours of arrival at dealer #2. I picked it up with 14 miles on it. Black/Black/Sun Roof.
My original dealer did say that the dealer #2 gave a better trade price to GET my business. I replied with" why didn't I get the better price from you to KEEP my business?" :lildevil:

miscreant
06-26-04, 04:10 PM
NO dealer should not allow a potential customer to test drive a car...no matter how limited/special it is and/or how the customer looks like.
We get about 10 people a week in who want to drive the V. If we were a dealership that only had one or two V's total, we'd easily have almost 200miles on our "showroom" V's. In this V crowd, that's an expected $2000 discount for miles. No, I can't agree - simply because the majority of the buyers here don't want a driven V. That should say something.

IMHO, if you aren't serious about buying it, don't drive it in respect of the person who really is interested.

rabid
06-26-04, 07:14 PM
People are just different when buying a new car. Some are comfortable with buying an expensive car without driving it. I am not one of those, and that is why I ended up buying from the dealer that let me test drive one.

Regarding other cars and their dealerships, when I started looking for a new car ealrier this year, I was 23 and went to about 11 different dealerships.

I was able to go test drive three different M3's at three different dealerships, and every single place I was in the car driving it within 15 minutes of arriving; without filling out any paperwork or anything-just a photocopy of my license. Same thing with the new S4. At the two Audi dealerships I stopped by, I drove a new S4 at each one. I even drove a C32 at a Mercedes. I drove so many cars not because I just wanted to drive them for fun, but because each car I drove was different; one had manual trans and another had auto, etc., and I wanted to see which option/type I would prefer.

The first four Cadillac dealerships I went to barely talked to me. Noone would let me drive a CTS-V. One dealership even had six CTS-V's on their lot. I called another Cadillac dealership and the salesman let me test drive their CTS-V the next day; the only one they had on the lot, with only 7 or 17 miles (I don't remember). I bought from them, but as I mentioned earlier, they ended up being a bad dealer.

Cal
06-26-04, 11:50 PM
The Jag dealer in town had no problem letting me drive the S-type R.
That's because it's a piece of junk!

:drinker

Cal
06-26-04, 11:56 PM
To contribute my experience:

I went to a local place to check out the SSR and they had a V. I had never seen it before but it caught my eye. They wanted $53.5k or something stupid. I decided to think on it though I did put a deposit and went home. I wanted black instead of the platinum they had, called another dealer he offered sticker and they had 6-7 on the lot. Went down test drove a bl/bl and then had him give me a different one with no miles, I was in and out in 3 hours.

Since then the dealer has been great (in addition to having a super-hot receptionist) and has put in my FG2 at a reasonable price, I am nothing but pleased. Anyone in the NJ area who is buying or thinking of buying let me know I will send you their way. They are down to 1 now I think, so there are a bunch of V owners floating around my area. Only seen one on the road around here so far (well, parked) but it was from another dealer.

Chopper9
06-27-04, 01:49 AM
95% of dealerships still do not accept GMS or supplier, and are around sticker sale price.

I dont know where you live... oh wait... yes I do! lol But here in Ohio, in the Youngstown, Warren area, EVERYBODY sells GMS. Because everyone works for GM!

And just because GM deems this auto a low production auto... something they do on EVERY new car that comes out of Detroit... doesnt mean you have to buy into it. Its a CTS with a LS1 engine in it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Cal
06-27-04, 02:52 AM
Some would say it's quite a bit more than that...

LS1 + 5

:cool:

benjet
06-27-04, 02:55 AM
And just because GM deems this auto a low production auto... something they do on EVERY new car that comes out of Detroit... doesnt mean you have to buy into it. Its a CTS with a LS1 engine in it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Pardon? First it has an LS6 not an LS1 (and that's just the tip of he iceberg in differences), second (since you don't feel the V qualifies for it) what do you consider low produciton (since there are REPORTEDLY less 2004 V's than 2004 Ferrari 360's - total of all variants)?

BTW - I also without any effort got to test drive the S-Type-R and the XJ-R (~8 miles each).

I did buy my (pre-ordered) V without a test drive, but it's more an exception than the rule for me. And I paid cash and they still made me go thru the paperwork (ran my credit) bc I had no prior relationship with that dealer and the manager guy didn't feel comfy with me giving them a check (he didn't want to lose the car on bad/rubber paper) - he would have taken a cashiers check (without any add'l paperwork).

I got the 1st one in my area, many of the other dealers had my name on their "lists" (to call when one arrived) but were VERY unfriendly to me, I made sure to drive over to each one to buy an oil filter the first week I had it. Nice to see their faces on the $5 part sale instead of the $50k car sale. Best $ I ever spent in places where I never wanted to spend any $.

-Ben

miscreant
06-27-04, 03:04 AM
I dont know where you live... oh wait... yes I do! lol But here in Ohio, in the Youngstown, Warren area, EVERYBODY sells GMS. Because everyone works for GM!
Um, yes, actually I was born in Youngstown and most of my family worked/works for the Lordstown plant. My grandfather retired after 38 years there. And based on your post, that particular dealership wasn't selling the CTS-V at GMS...like most dealerships don't.



And just because GM deems this auto a low production auto... something they do on EVERY new car that comes out of Detroit... doesnt mean you have to buy into it. Its a CTS with a LS1 engine in it. Nothing more, nothing less.
LS1?

Well, first, it *is* a low production vehicle, not because they say it is, but because the plant is only producing a limited number.

Just on the basis of this post I can tell you really weren't interested in buying it - this probably was evident on your visit and may have been why you were refused a testjoy driveride.

miscreant
06-27-04, 03:08 AM
Went down test drove a bl/bl and then had him give me a different one with no miles, I was in and out in 3 hours.

Bingo! Don't blame you at all, but proves my point :bighead: !

urbanski
06-27-04, 09:01 AM
That's because it's a piece of junk!

:drinker:D heh, yeah well I'm still fairly young (looking), wear t-shirts and shorts everywhere, and don't come off as somebody who can pay 70 large for a car :) Plus it was their only one...and they're snooty since the same dealership also sells Italian exotics :)

2004ctsv
06-27-04, 09:02 AM
I bought mine w/o a test drive. The only local dealer with a V available to show had already sold it and would not give a test drive on someone else's car. I had gone to a Caddy dealership in a vary upscale side of town and two of the salesmen there hadn't heard of the CTSV let alone have one for a test drive. (Feb 04)

The dealer wasn't concerned about me walking from the sale if I didn't like the car since he had another buyer right behind me waiting for the blk/blk V. Since the car had 4 miles on it when I bought/drove it, I doubt that it was used for test drives. I would have been upset if it was and would have demanded a "new" one.

Once there are enough of these cars for every dealer to have a couple in stock, like BMW's and Jag's and Chevy's and other common cars, then they'll offer test drives to anyone walking in off the street.

For now, enjoy the exclusivity (?) of the care. Unfortunately, the situation will change.

Z06CTSV
06-27-04, 11:50 AM
I'm sorry you had to deal with idiots. My local BMW dealer was the same way when I asked about an M5 on the showroom floor. They wanted $10,000.00 over sticker because "They don't make this car any longer", and no test drive. Like I didn't know it was being redesigned and coming out with a much better one.:hmm:

As far as Caddy is concerned, I think that they are used to dealing with return customers, and customers that are over 60. My Caddy/Chevy dealer was bending over backwards for me. I'm a returning customer after 3 Corvette's, 2 Suburban's, 1 Camaro SS, 1 Trailblazer, but if they plan on competiting they better treat everyone with respect. They had two V's when I went, and I test drove both.

Good Luck
Joe
New Orleans

Raven05
06-27-04, 02:41 PM
I ordered my V almost four weeks ago and I'm still waiting :annoyed: for it. The day I placed my order I could have driven home a 2005 that had 200+ miles on it and was identical to the one I ordered. I wouldn't have even taken it at a discount because, IMHO, the first 500 miles are crucial to engine, trans, clutch, diff, and brake break-in. I'm pretty sure whoever drove that car didn't care what they did to someone elses car and the salesman didn't even understand why I didn't want it. I'm not willing to make a $50,000.00 bet that I could either lose or break even on, but not win. I'd rather wait!

CVP33
06-27-04, 02:56 PM
I went to my local dealer (Colonial Cadillac owned by Hendrick) after calling the Sales Manager in advance and explaining that I was a GMS customer and was interested in a CTS-V. He claims that he "WILL" work something out. After waiting in the lobby for 30-40 minutes I finally get to see the SM. He writes something on the back of his business card and slides it across his 6 foot by 8 foot mahogany desk. He writes MSRP +$10,000. Basically I waited over a half hour so he could insult my intelligence. Needless to say they will NEVER see a dime of my hard earned dollars.

Two weeks later I returned with my CTS-V from DeLorean in Cleveland, OH. Two salesmen immediately run over to see the car in person as Colonial's first has still not arrived. The Sales Manager makes it as far as the front window then slumps and returns to his nice desk. I talked with the two salesmen for about 15 minutes and got a CTS-V brochure that DeLorean did not have yet.

I don't mind someone not honoring GMS, that's their right. But don't tell me to "come on down" when you have no intention of helping a customer. Now I tell everyone I know. DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH COLONIAL CADILLAC IN NORFOLK, VA. I'm happy to warn others how they do business.

BTW, they still have their shiney new 2004 CTS-V sitting in the showroom for $61,000 and it's been their since April.

Cal
06-27-04, 04:42 PM
miscreant: If they let me test drive it off the street (let's just say I don't look like the typical Caddy customer) I can imagine other people had done the same. I don't want to seem like a dink but I don't want to buy the dealership's test drive car when they have SIX more sitting there brand new.

A Chevy dealer down south lost a sale from my biz partner because they refused to flatbed a Z06 300 miles, talk about idiocy. They lost a $47k sale over $500 in flatbed fees. Dealers always act like a car is new as long as it's never been titled. As I have said in other threads here in NJ they consider a car new up to THREE THOUSAND MILES, believe it or not.

Rich H
06-27-04, 07:51 PM
A dealer can make or break the sale based solely upon their pricing discretion. All the dealers in my area were unwilling to sell at GMS at first - until I met the right salesperson.

I did not buy the first V I test drove since the dealer was not willing to sell it at GMS. It was this dealer's first V to arrive and it was not sold since the buyer who ordered it had backed out of the deal for some reason. However, the salesperson I dealt with was able to convince the sales manager to let me order a V at GMS. It surprised the hell out of me - even to this day since this same dealer has attempted to sell every V they've got above MSRP. Some as high as $6000 above MSRP right after the Speed Challenge CTSV victory at Limerock.

Bottom line - the sales price is totally at the dealer's discretion. I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time. By the way, I was told they fired the above sales manager. Might have had something to do with his descretionary pricing tactics or the fact he hadn't been able to move many Vs off the floor at those prices.

And the salesperson? I wouldn't be driving my V without her. :worship:

miscreant
06-27-04, 08:50 PM
miscreant: If they let me test drive it off the street (let's just say I don't look like the typical Caddy customer) I can imagine other people had done the same. I don't want to seem like a dink but I don't want to buy the dealership's test drive car when they have SIX more sitting there brand new.
Like I said, I don't blame you at all for wanting that. But it just goes to show that if that dealership only had one V, they're not going to want to just run it out for test drives. Having six others (like us) then they typically have one driver, and sell the others, than will discount the driver for sale at a later date. But having the driver prevents miles on the other units which helps them hold their value - so the lost profit margin on the driver is made up in the higher profit margins obtained on the ones not driven.

I'd also like to point out that our BMW and Lexus stores do not have near this problem with miles on cars (say s. But our XLR and CTS-V customers are STICKLERS about miles on their cars.

Additionally, dealers that tend to have more CTS-V's are more apt to do GMS because they have greater volume.

As well, GMS orders are different than GMS off the floor. The dealer has no floorplan to pay on it when it comes in, and they may get bonus allocation to fill your GMS order (a bonus car) and defer the loss of profit margin to later months.

Chopper9
06-28-04, 12:44 AM
Um, yes, actually I was born in Youngstown and most of my family worked/works for the Lordstown plant. My grandfather retired after 38 years there. And based on your post, that particular dealership wasn't selling the CTS-V at GMS...like most dealerships don't.

Strike One. I was more than born in Y-Town. I lived there 30+ years. Both my parents worked there for the General thier whole lives, as well as 2 brothers and a bunch of relatives. I am well aware of the scene. If a dealer didnt sell GMS in that area, they wouldnt be in business...period.


LS1?

A typo. Sorry to all.


Well, first, it *is* a low production vehicle, not because they say it is, but because the plant is only producing a limited number.

Strike Two. Again, I am aware it is a limited production vehicle... because they want it too be. Not because it is handmade, or made of rare materials... it is off the shelf parts, with an engine that has been around forever. If you want to buy into the hype of how limited it is, fine, thats your business. I know its just the trend of auto makers in todays times. Dont think for a second they wont build as many as they need. If people are buying, they will keep building.


Just on the basis of this post I can tell you really weren't interested in buying it - this probably was evident on your visit and may have been why you were refused a testjoy driveride.

Strike three. I went to another dealer (one in youngstown FYI), test drove it and have ordered a Black 2005... for yes... thats right... GMS price. 46 and change!

Thanks for playing.

:shhh:

miscreant
06-28-04, 01:24 AM
Forgive me if I refrain from the "strike two", "strike three", "you're out" game...


If a dealer didnt sell GMS in that area, they wouldnt be in business...period.
Did you NOT say, and one reason you were pissed to begin with, that the dealership would NOT sell it to you at GMS?

Youngstown isn't anything special when it comes to GMS. We've got a plant right here in Oklahoma City that produces a tremendous amount of product. Nothing big deal about it. We didn't go out of business when the Hummer H2 first came out and didn't do GMS for the first 6 months.



Strike Two. Again, I am aware it is a limited production vehicle... because they want it too be. Not because it is handmade, or made of rare materials... it is off the shelf parts, with an engine that has been around forever. If you want to buy into the hype of how limited it is, fine, thats your business. I know its just the trend of auto makers in todays times. Dont think for a second they wont build as many as they need. If people are buying, they will keep building.
First, the CTS-V will be a limited production vehicle BECAUSE it is a V. It will only appeal to a very small amount of people.

Handmade? made of rare materials? This is not a diablo or Ford GT!

I'm not sure where the hype is? Hype is misleading or exagerated claims. Considering that the proposed production of the 2004 models was to be 3500 retail production units and they didn't make even that, I'd say there's no hype about the low production of the vehicle.



Strike three. I went to another dealer (one in youngstown FYI), test drove it and have ordered a Black 2005... for yes... thats right... GMS price. 46 and change!
Obviously I'm not going to make a big deal of it, but the key word here is "ordered" it [are they ordering you one, or locating you one - ie., when are you supposed to get it]. But I would gladly offer my services if you'd like for me to track your order for you (you are welcome to email me).

6104696
06-28-04, 08:34 AM
I dont know where you live... oh wait... yes I do! lol But here in Ohio, in the Youngstown, Warren area, EVERYBODY sells GMS. Because everyone works for GM!

And just because GM deems this auto a low production auto... something they do on EVERY new car that comes out of Detroit... doesnt mean you have to buy into it. Its a CTS with a LS1 engine in it. Nothing more, nothing less.
And the 1967 Mustang Cobra is just a Ford Mustang with Cougar tailights.....

(not that anyone can expect the V to obtain that kind of status, but in 1967 the Mustang Cobra was the same type of project that the V is today! Nothing more, nothing less.)

Doug

T_Dogg8
06-28-04, 10:33 AM
Strike three. I went to another dealer (one in youngstown FYI), test drove it and have ordered a Black 2005... for yes... thats right... GMS price. 46 and change!

Thanks for playing.

:shhh:
so did you get to test drive one at the dealership?? if you did and still ordered it, you proved the point. people don't want to spend 50 large (or even 46) on a car that was beat to hell and back in the first 200 miles.

i use to have people come into my golf store and want to hit clubs from our hitting mat and then want brand new in a box, even though they were the only ones to touch the clubs.

not everyone can have the best of both worlds.

Chopper9
06-28-04, 11:01 AM
Listen boys, I love the CTS-V... obviously... I ordered one. I'm just not down with the whole "this thing is a limited model... very rare" thing that the dealerships are spinning these days. From Chrysler to Ford, they are all doing it on certain models. My point was, if people want them, they will keep building them. The numbers will always stay low just because of the type of car, and the cost. Not because it is so special or "limited".

I ordered one for color only. I would have had no problem taking the floor model if it had been black. I'm as anal as the next guy, but to take home a car with 2--50--even 100 miles on it wouldnt bother me. The warranty is all the same.

Miscreant...

I started this post to share a story of bad dealership antics. I now live in Canton Ohio. A nice place, but a little backwards compared to Youngstown, Arkron and Clevelend. The dealership (Progressive) thought they were pretty slick, and it ended up costing them a deal. 10k over invoice? Good luck my friends.

Please do not quote me about Youngstown. You obviously have no merrit on the subject. Thats like me telling you what the deal is in OK cause I have a cousin there. The GM dealerships in this area live and breath off GM and Delphi employees and thier families. How well do you think they would do if they didnt sell GMS? They wouldnt. Thats why you can go into ANY GM dealer in the area, and they will ask you if you are before you have to tell them. They run ads and specials just for GMS employess on a regular basis. Its just the way it is. Ask your gramps.

You misunderstood again about the handmade materials quote. I said its NOT made of anything exotic, its all off the shelf parts, so how limited do you really think it is? As limited as they want it to be.

I ordered a 2005 in black... actually they are due to receieve 4 2005's in the next couple weeks, and one black one has my name on it. With the sunroof as the only option, there is no reason to really order one, but you get the point.

Cant wait!!!

miscreant
06-28-04, 05:44 PM
Miscreant...Please do not quote me about Youngstown. You obviously have no merrit on the subject.You're jumping to conclusions. I'm glad you ordered a CTS-V and will join CTS owners, but I do have merit.:coolgleam I'm trying to give a middle perspective here, and certainly not trying to be an a$$, so don't take it that way.

I was born in Youngstown and spent 25 years of my life, not all at the same time, in the Northeastern part of Ohio. I worked in Canfield, and in Boardman, and the Warren/Niles area. I grew up in Deerfield (actually Berlin Center). I've worked for dealerships in Youngstown, Akron, and Barberton - actually Norton (lastly Fred Martin on Barber road). I went to Youngstown State University and Kent State University. I've got some merit, maybe not as much as you, but I still have alot of friends in that area, and I do know of several Cadillac dealerships in that area that are NOT doing GMS on the CTS-V because they are getting one or two units AT BEST, and it sounds like you walked into one the first time, yes? Did you not say they "wouldn't do GMS and wouldn't even sell it at sticker"? But the one you got GMS at has *4* coming in within the next couple weeks. So they can stand to GMS a couple, eh? That was my only point. The dealership *treated* you poorly, but the fact they didn't want you to drive their *only* V and wouldn't do GMS on their *only* V should atleast be understood.

me3head
06-28-04, 06:09 PM
I am also from Youngstown, and I couldn't get a GMS V there. Heck, I now live in Detroit, and couldn't get one here until recently.

Chopper9
06-28-04, 08:51 PM
Fair enough. I do not wish to get off on the wrong foot either.

Look forward to chatting about the new whip soon.

thebigjimsho
06-28-04, 10:49 PM
You misunderstood again about the handmade materials quote. I said its NOT made of anything exotic, its all off the shelf parts, so how limited do you really think it is? As limited as they want it to be.

I ordered a 2005 in black... actually they are due to receieve 4 2005's in the next couple weeks, and one black one has my name on it. With the sunroof as the only option, there is no reason to really order one, but you get the point.

Cant wait!!!As limited as they want it to be. So, does that mean there are thousands upon thousands sitting in warehouses waiting to be brought out? And it's a business, which means the buying public dictates how limited it can be. As for the first 6 months of availability, which brings us up to now, it is in limited numbers. One of the reasons I paid $51 large is that it is a new model on a fairly recent design run.

Of course, in a couple years or just a few months, these prices will come down, cars will become more available and more dealers will allow a test drive. But at right this moment, that is a hard thing to do. Dealers know that most of us want a car with no miles. My dealer, Olsen Cadillac (good people in MA), has sold about 6 since January but have not had more than 2 on the lot at once. That dictates no test drives.

Most dealers have been stuck not knowing exactly when a new V comes around. At least around here. But that's how it is, I understand and agree with it. No problems for me, never test drove one, and lovin' every minute behind the wheel of my '04.

BeagleBrains
06-29-04, 05:08 PM
I have purchased a number of new cars in my life. Surprisingly often, the sales person will say "this is a special car". My response, "Do you have any special need to sell this car?" I read as many resources as possible before any purchase. Therefore, I generally know more technical information that does the sales person. My local Cadillac dealer had a CTS-V with eighteen (18) miles; he presented the car with the admonition that a test drive was not an option. Being a limited edition, the Dealer preferred to sell a near virgin, unabused CTS-V to the new owner. Now, this is logical. Also, I know that, by law, had I purchased the car and found it to be unacceptable, that would be my response. Decline and refuse the car, returned within three days. The Dealer must refund my purchase (by Iowa law).

Cal
06-30-04, 12:25 AM
Nice, a 3 day test drive. Where is a Ferrari dealer in Iowa, I'll go decide I don't like an Enzo.

T_Dogg8
06-30-04, 07:30 AM
Nice, a 3 day test drive. Where is a Ferrari dealer in Iowa, I'll go decide I don't like an Enzo.
me too. a ferrari dealership and a race course is all i need to find now :)

DgtalPimp
06-30-04, 11:14 AM
Nice, a 3 day test drive. Where is a Ferrari dealer in Iowa, I'll go decide I don't like an Enzo.
So lets plan for a road trip. Cal you swing by the Ferriari dealer grab an Enzo (http://www.supercars.net/cars/2002@$Ferrari@$Enzog.html),
T-Dogg you get a Lambo (Diablo VT 6.0 SE) (http://www.lambocars.com/framed/diablo/diablo60sei.htm), I grab a Vanquish (http://www.astonmartin.com/html/vanquish.html), and we can all play at the track for two and a hlaf days straight.

It really is to bad that the cars are just not up to our high standards. :lildevil:

Dgtal (dgtalpimp@pimpdaddy.com)

T_Dogg8
06-30-04, 11:44 AM
So lets plan for a road trip. Cal you swing by the Ferriari dealer grab an Enzo (http://www.supercars.net/cars/2002@$Ferrari@$Enzog.html),
T-Dogg you get a Lambo (Diablo VT 6.0 SE) (http://www.lambocars.com/framed/diablo/diablo60sei.htm), I grab a Vanquish (http://www.astonmartin.com/html/vanquish.html), and we can all play at the track for two and a hlaf days straight.

It really is to bad that the cars are just not up to our high standards. :lildevil:

Dgtal (dgtalpimp@pimpdaddy.com)i'm there. and good thinking. diablo is my favorite supercar.

but it is too bad it won't live up to my standards. :suspense: but maybe the next weekend i'd be willing to give it another try :lildevil: