: Need advice on buying a Fleetwood Brougham ASAP!



pompste
12-18-08, 08:35 AM
Hi,I`ve always wanted to own a well maintained 1994-1996 Fleetwood Brougham once in my lifetime.So i`ve located a 1993 with just 6,330 miles on it---carfax verifies it.
From the pictures the ride looks truly mint.They are asking $9,985 for it.
I would have to drive 170 miles each way to check it out.I never wanted a 1993 because it`s the first year production run of this last generation Fleetwood and there`s usually bugs that need to corrected in the first year run of any car.I also never liked the small door mounted mirrors on the 1993`s.However,it`s the ultra low mileage and pristine condition that keeps me interested.I doubt if i could find another one with this low mileage again.
If memory serves me correct,the `93`s had a smaller engine than `94-`96`s also.
I`ve got a 2005 Taurus SEL i can offer as a trade in.Possibly even up.
I`d appreciate some advice/info on the pros/cons of the `93`s and whether i should buy it or not and should i get the price down.
Thank you.

jey
12-18-08, 11:52 AM
I've had a 93 for over a year and it has 98k miles on it. I haven't encountered any "bugs" - I got used to the small side mirrors and they actually help the car fit in the carport :lol: The 93 motor is the L05 5.7L V8 - 94-96 uses the LT1 5.7L V8. On paper the LT1 has a lot more horsepower, but they are both good strong V8 motors.

6330 miles, it is practically brand new - almost as if someone was keeping it as a collector's/show car. I have no experience regarding how much these kind of cars are worth, but $9985 seems like a fair price - I'd buy it over any brand new showroom car! I would suspect if it was a 94-96 with the LT1 they'd be asking a bit more, so it seems fair, but again I am really just guessing here.

billc83
12-18-08, 01:14 PM
The '93 does not have the LT1 engine, if you're interested in that panache. Though both engines displace 5.7 liters, the LT1 puts out more horsepower (260 versus I think 180 - quoting from memory) but both have similar torque and should be more than capable. They are quite different engines, but from what I've heard, both engines are damn near bulletproof, though the LT1 have the mystique of being a detuned Corvette engine.

'94s continued to have the small side mirrors; I'm specifically holding out for a '95/'96 because of this.

Assuming 6,330 miles is NOT a typo (and not 63k), the car is basically new. $9,985 seems like a fair price. HOWEVER, Kelley Blue Book Suggested Retail Value (the highest of the bunch) is only $6,990 - assuming no CD player.

I'd say the car is worth looking into if you are serious about buying, just to look at. Knowing the KBB price, you could probably negotiate down to $8,500, maybe even $8,000, unless it's a private seller and he's firm on the price. But even $10k doesn't seem ridiculously over blue book value, especially if you consider they are most likely trying to charge a small premium for such a low mileage, pristine example.

Is it a dealer or private seller?

tenmark
12-18-08, 02:36 PM
Keep in mind these few tips. While the mileage may be low, the car and all its components are still 15 or 16 years old and will likely be in need of some serious maintenance (if it hasn't already been done) if you're planning on making it a daily driver.

Do your homework, be sure it wasn't driven because it was a lemon. Though these cars have a solid track record for durability - the car will fall apart around the engine!

I recommend looking for something with miles more like 70K or 80K that has a decent maintenance history. These are known to get over 200K with little maintenance. (I actually look for cars closer to 100K). And wait around for a 95 or 96 (since you prefer the look) in the color with the options you want. They're out there - good clean ones in the $5,000 to $8,000 range.

December/January is a good time to buy too.

96Fleetwood
12-18-08, 04:20 PM
For that kind of money you can find a low mileage LT1 car. I say hold out for a '96 with under 60K miles and you can snag it for $5-8K.

pompste
12-18-08, 06:02 PM
The '93 does not have the LT1 engine, if you're interested in that panache. Though both engines displace 5.7 liters, the LT1 puts out more horsepower (260 versus I think 180 - quoting from memory) but both have similar torque and should be more than capable. They are quite different engines, but from what I've heard, both engines are damn near bulletproof, though the LT1 have the mystique of being a detuned Corvette engine.

'94s continued to have the small side mirrors; I'm specifically holding out for a '95/'96 because of this.

Assuming 6,330 miles is NOT a typo (and not 63k), the car is basically new. $9,985 seems like a fair price. HOWEVER, Kelley Blue Book Suggested Retail Value (the highest of the bunch) is only $6,990 - assuming no CD player.

I'd say the car is worth looking into if you are serious about buying, just to look at. Knowing the KBB price, you could probably negotiate down to $8,500, maybe even $8,000, unless it's a private seller and he's firm on the price. But even $10k doesn't seem ridiculously over blue book value, especially if you consider they are most likely trying to charge a small premium for such a low mileage, pristine example.

Is it a dealer or private seller?

It`s a dealer sale 170 miles from where i live,one state away---a 3 hour drive "each way" and i`m not good at reading maps! I`ve e-mailed the dealer with questions but there`s nothing like actually checking the vehicle in person,hands on.I sure wish this ride was located closer to me.If the ride checks out ok,this long trip may have to be made twice to clear all the paperwork and finalize the deal.
The 6,330 mileage is correct (carfax verified) and i got the same $6,990 price you did when i checked Kelly Blue Book.
From the pictures offered,it looks like it just rolled off the assembly line---the drivers seat barely has a hint of any leather creases.I`ve always bought every car i`ve had in my life locally so this would be new experience for sure.
I also prefer the `95-`96`s fold in door mirrors.
I`m a bit cautious though since it only averaged 422 miles per YEAR for 15 years----wondering if it was driven enough to even break it in.
Thanks for all your responses so far-----i need all the info i can get!

pompste
12-18-08, 06:26 PM
Keep in mind these few tips. While the mileage may be low, the car and all its components are still 15 or 16 years old and will likely be in need of some serious maintenance (if it hasn't already been done) if you're planning on making it a daily driver.

Do your homework, be sure it wasn't driven because it was a lemon. Though these cars have a solid track record for durability - the car will fall apart around the engine!

I recommend looking for something with miles more like 70K or 80K that has a decent maintenance history. These are known to get over 200K with little maintenance. (I actually look for cars closer to 100K). And wait around for a 95 or 96 (since you prefer the look) in the color with the options you want. They're out there - good clean ones in the $5,000 to $8,000 range.

December/January is a good time to buy too.

Yes there are Fleetwoods out there in the mileage range you noted for sure---i`ve checked online,most by private seller.Since i`ve got a 2005 Ford Taurus SEL i can offer for trade in,my choices are limited to "dealer only" sales for now.My Taurus is worth $7500---$10,000 so an even up trade is possible and maybe even some $$$ to take home with me.
I`ve got to get up enough nerve to drive to the dealer that`s 170 mles away and not get lost in the process! I`m not good at reading maps at all.
I`ve been told by some friends to "wait until a well maintained Fleetwood shows up on a lot here locally",but i`ve been checking local inventories here for quite some time and "none" have showed up at all.
I`ll do my homework for sure-----i`ve always been the type that does too much research before purchasing a vehicle,especially one that`s 15-16 years old.

billc83
12-18-08, 07:06 PM
A long trip is just an excuse to drive :D

I've been looking for a '95/'96 Fleetwood for some time, myself. Once and a while one pops up on CL, and they're almost always (a) overpriced, (b) "pimped-out," or (c) in worse condition than I want.

Even if you miss out on this one, just remember "there will always be another one."

pompste
12-18-08, 09:21 PM
A long trip is just an excuse to drive :D

I've been looking for a '95/'96 Fleetwood for some time, myself. Once and a while one pops up on CL, and they're almost always (a) overpriced, (b) "pimped-out," or (c) in worse condition than I want.

Even if you miss out on this one, just remember "there will always be another one."

Yes,the ones i`ve seen online are sometimes "pimped out" (i prefer stock) or not well maintained or overpriced also.This one appears to be in such pristine condition and it is dominating my thoughts too much.There is a major snowstorm heading along the same exact route i need to take to the dealer tonight so i won`t be driving there for at least 3-4 days.The dealer has a toll-free # so i`ll call when i can.
We have 1 local Cadillac dealership in town here so i`ll go there tomorrow and ask if they ever receive any 1993-1996 Fleetwoods on their used car lot.If so,i`ll have them contact me when any arrive.I`ve also checked inventory at about all local dealer used car lots and no Fleetwoods at all so far.
I hope you find your `95-`96 sometime soon!
When you say "one pops up on CL"---what is CL?

pompste
12-18-08, 09:45 PM
I've had a 93 for over a year and it has 98k miles on it. I haven't encountered any "bugs" - I got used to the small side mirrors and they actually help the car fit in the carport :lol: The 93 motor is the L05 5.7L V8 - 94-96 uses the LT1 5.7L V8. On paper the LT1 has a lot more horsepower, but they are both good strong V8 motors.

6330 miles, it is practically brand new - almost as if someone was keeping it as a collector's/show car. I have no experience regarding how much these kind of cars are worth, but $9985 seems like a fair price - I'd buy it over any brand new showroom car! I would suspect if it was a 94-96 with the LT1 they'd be asking a bit more, so it seems fair, but again I am really just guessing here.

Good to know there are no "bugs/problems" on your `93.
I`ve heard from others that when an auto goes through a "complete redesign",as the `93 Fleetwood did,there may be unforeseen "real world" problems that show up and are then corrected in the model years following.For example:the dreaded 4.1 liter engine--then corrected to the 4.5 and 4.9 liter.Cosmetically,the Fleetwood small door mirrors corrected to the fold in larger ones.Many complained the `93 Fleetwood LO5 engine was "underpowered",hence the LT1 in later model years,as you said---both are good strong V8 engines.
Thanks for your response!

Aron9000
12-19-08, 01:02 AM
I'd wait on another one. I personally hate buying from a dealer because they usually don't know the history of the car and how it was maintained.

BTW, I flew to Chicago and drove my 1991 Brougham home to Nashville. Couldn't find any decent ones locally.

greencadillacmatt
12-19-08, 02:15 AM
If you truly want a later model than '93, I would wait, but 170 miles isn't all that far. I found my '84 DeVille on ebay and I flew from Michigan to Boston and drove the car back. 888 miles later I had a Caddy in my garage. I waited for the car I wanted, and got a sweet road-trip out of it. I would get the one that you really want. Just my 2 cents. :stirpot:

96Fleetwood
12-19-08, 09:13 AM
With this economy you will be lucky to get a dealer to give you that much for trade in on the Taurus.

Fortunately, Fleetwood prices have also dropped.. so the idea of a near even trade is feasible.

I searched for my '96 Fleetwood for 2 years. I wanted a '96 Black/Grey with the moonroof. It had 70K miles on it when I bought it in 2005, I paid $8K which was almost top dollar.

Keep checking eBay, Craigslist (CL), and autotrader. I have now owned six (1990, 1991, 1992, 1995, 1996, 1996) and found them all with the aforementioned advertising services.

Goodluck!

jey
12-19-08, 09:15 AM
Cosmetically,the Fleetwood small door mirrors corrected to the fold in larger ones.

By the way, the mirrors were not changed until 1995.

pompste
12-19-08, 09:20 AM
I'd wait on another one. I personally hate buying from a dealer because they usually don't know the history of the car and how it was maintained.

BTW, I flew to Chicago and drove my 1991 Brougham home to Nashville. Couldn't find any decent ones locally.

On this ride,it was actually bought at the same dealership in 1994 that it`s being sold at now---15 years later.The small amount of service on it was all done at this same dealership also.

Rob Benham
12-19-08, 10:57 AM
I'm way down the bottom of Texas, and I'm finding that the logistics of selling my car have meant no real progress at all.

I don't know if the dark green is a disadvantage either.

I did have one guy say that he would come from Sweden...sent him a dozen or so pictures, but he found one up north, and that saved on the extra flying and shipping.

Old Fleetwood
12-19-08, 11:23 PM
FWIW:
I got my Fleetwood on eBay a couple of years ago.
It came from a Lexus dealer in Texas and I had it shipped to Connecticut after having it inspected and all that yadda yadda. Even the, thanks to this web site, I found that the be-all-and-know-all inspecting types don't know diddly squat when it comes down to it;
The inside of the deck lid is the same color(Dark Adriatic Blue) but NOT clear coated as it should be and there is NO jack instruction sticker.
That leads me to surmise my car was smacked in the butt at some time and the deck lid was replaced.
Cutting an inspection agency a break, maybe, just maybe, the original owner backed into something sharp about the height of a loading dock and punctured only the deck lid. That wouldn't result in a police report and a body shop wouldn't make a federal case out of it.
ANYHOW,
The 1995 Fleetwood Brougham had just a tad over 90,000 miles on the clock, and required only a couple of pain-in-the-ass computer fixes (the BCM and the instrument panel). In addition, since we use it to tow our PopUp RV, (under 1,900 lbs) I had a Carolina Performance Transmissions Stage II unit installed along with a 2,200rpm stall converter.
Performance is EXCELLENT (I can rubber plate the pavement at will) and fuel mileage hasn't suffered noticeably.
If you dig back in these posts, you will see that the governed speed of the LT1 is 108 mph and that I got the surprise of my life one morning on the way to my dog's specialized vet in another state when my wife and I saw 122 on the digital dash.
As far as roadholding at that speed, there was absolutely no fuss nor feathers and I gather from others that these beasts - properly chipped - will show you 147.
No thanks. I'll take their word for that.
BOTTOM LINE -
In my not so humble opinion: Hold out for a 95 or 96. A primary difference will be that the 95 uses the OBD 1 diagnostic set while the 96 goes for the OBD 2.
Further, eBay isn't all that bad as far as I'm concerned, if you can stay away from Pay Pal.

Aron9000
12-20-08, 12:52 AM
FWIW:
I gather from others that these beasts - properly chipped - will show you 147.


WOW!!!!!:bonkers:

I thought the aerodynamics(or lack of) would slow them down to 130 or so.

ShadowLvr400
12-20-08, 10:38 AM
Yea... 147 seems like a lot. Even with my work, it was out of breath at 130, just not pulling, though... that was when the transmission was broken and had lost most of its fluid. Now I can't go that fast because I have cheap tires on that I wouldn't trust that fast.

pompste
12-20-08, 06:02 PM
I really appreciate all the info you all have been so kind to offer so far!
I went to our local Caddy dealer today and asked if they have received any "GM certified Fleetwoods lately".Salesman stated "we have`nt had any Fleetwoods here for over 2 years".I then asked him if it was possible to ship the Fleetwood, on the copy i showed him,from the dealer that`s 170 miles away to this dealership.He said "they would not,they would ship if it was new and i`d get the best deal by dealing with them directly".He also said they may not budge from the asking price much since the mileage is so low---even though it Kelly blue books at around $7000.
I may be taking the trip next week if the weather is good.I still have to figure,if everything checks out ok,if this transaction can be totally completed in the 1 trip only.I sure would`nt want to make the trip more than once.I`d have to bring all the goods on my trade-in for sure.
Honestly,i`d like to wait for a well-maintained `95 or `96,but for sure one showing up with this type of low mileage would be extremely rare.The ultra low mileage is really the only reason that keeps me interested.I`ll call for sure before i leave to make sure it is still available-----and for sure "won`t" tell them i`m making a long trip to see it.If they know i`ve traveled a long distance to get there,they will for sure stick close to the asking price--they would have me over a barrel---let`s face it,they want to make as much profit as possible on each vehicle they sell,especially with the economy being so bad.

billc83
12-20-08, 08:38 PM
Fleetwoods can't qualify for the Cadillac Certified Preowned plan. Qualifying Cadillacs must be no more than four years (five model years) old and less than 50,000 miles. Last Fleetwoods ('96) are nearing twelve years of age.

I'm not sure for a car of this age, but you might be able to get an extended warranty. If it's possible, no doubt the dealer will try to sell it to you; they can make a lot of profit in them!

Whatever your decision, good luck and let us know the outcome!

pompste
12-24-08, 06:05 PM
I never even got a chance to see the ride in person-----found out today it was sold.We have been hit with a few major snowstorms here in Michigan,one right after another during the past week and a half, and since driving to see the ride would have been potential suicide, i wanted to wait till the weather lightened up.
If i ever find another Fleetwood to my liking again,i`ll review all the responses in this thread to help me make an informed decision.
Needless to say i`ll never find another Fleetwood with the ultra low mileage the '93 had for sure.
If i may ask,is there a possibilty someone who responded in this thread may have bought it?

billc83
12-24-08, 06:18 PM
Wasn't me...

...or was it?!?!?

:eyes:

96Fleetwood
12-25-08, 08:45 AM
I think it was a good thing you didn't get this car. With that mileage, you would have been plagued with dried up seals & hoses. Especially if you were trading your daily driver Taurus for it! The L05 TBI motor in the '93 is reliable, but you really need more than 190hp to move these heavy cars.

Keep on the lookout for a '95 or '96 with under 60K miles. Best of luck!

pompste
12-25-08, 11:11 AM
I think it was a good thing you didn't get this car. With that mileage, you would have been plagued with dried up seals & hoses. Especially if you were trading your daily driver Taurus for it! The L05 TBI motor in the '93 is reliable, but you really need more than 190hp to move these heavy cars.

Keep on the lookout for a '95 or '96 with under 60K miles. Best of luck!

For sure the '93 was not meant for me.I knew it would sell quick.I really did`nt like the color (light baby blue) too much,but it was acceptable.If mother nature had`nt intervened,it might me mine now.
I`ve seen some '95/'96`s online with 70k miles and less ranging from $8500 to $11,000.What i don`t understand is that these all Kelley Blue Book at $7500 or less and i`m including the "brougham package" and assuming "excellent condition".The private sellers are asking the highest prices.All of these are located several hundred to over a thousand miles away from me.
We have a local service called "car finder" online.You list your vehicle specs and the info goes to several major local dealerships---when your ride is offered for sale it sends you an e-mail alert informing you what dealership has the ride with your specs.It does`nt cover all dealerships(none of the small privately owned ones),but it`s better than nothing.
Only thing that`s come up so far is a '95 Fleetwood LIMO--damn those look regal.I don`t expect much anytime soon,but you never know.I still have my "mini Fleetwood"---my mint '95 Sedan Deville stored in my garage for the winter.
Thanks for yor concern!

theGman
12-25-08, 08:28 PM
I posted this on the SS site yesterday, for what it's worth.


I bought that beautiful medium Adriatic blue '96 FWB from Frank (96ChameleonSS) in Florida last July; I've put under 100 miles on it since then....it is safely protected n my carport. I am planning on parting out my fine '95 white FWB daily driver in a few months and going full time to the '96. I love the car.

Why am I mentioning this?

Well........I play keyboard as a part time hobby in a local band out here; unbeknown to me at the time I bought the '96, we have gotten busy. Packing the stuff into the backseat of my '95 is a time consuming job. If I had to do it over again, I would have settled for a Fleetwood type wagon (maybe an equal quality Roadmaster?). I'm getting older; sure would make loading easier, plus the cars are similar enough for we Fleetwood guys.

So, if anyone might be interested in this beauty, let me know. Just look up the old thread for tons of pics. I have made it a little better since then, plus bought a nice blue dash pad also.

I will probably get my wife to sew a custom cloth back seat cover and just use it, but, incase someone just has to have a beautiful low miles FWB (about 50K or so) and if it went to a good home, I would sell it for what I have in it. If not, that's ok too.

Emotionally attached,

Paul
__________________
'95 FWB, white, named "Mr. Moby"
'96 FWB, med. blue, named "Mr. Mobey"
'96 SLS, black
'81 Avanti II, red
'46 Wife, white

96Fleetwood
12-26-08, 09:44 AM
That is a gorgeous car, I would have bought it if I had a 3 car garage.