: Some navigation questions



N*Caddy
12-16-08, 08:19 PM
Hello, as few of you know I am looking to convert my 97 STS with Base Delco Sound System to Denso Navigation, (absolutely positively out of the question going aftermarket).

Short story…2002 and up Denso NAV in ‘97 STS does it works (even with extreme rewiring)?

So far I know (and I did spent a lot of nights looking among the related posts on this and other similar sites) that most (actually all) retrofits were done on ’98-‘03 STS/SLS. I already know what I need (Thanks Jason!) but I have few questions (or demons witch are keeping me from having a sound sleep).
I am looking for people like Jason, eclipse5302, lownoma18, Ur7x, jmmast02, kdsevillle, low Timer and so many others with the retrofit done for some pointers before the journey. Well actually if somebody come in front with a ’96 or ’97 retrofit then all my worries are over.

So here I go:
1. You need BOSE (i.e. RIM and individual speaker amplifiers). I already have the RIM and all connectors from a 99 Eldo (thanks SLOWnSTEADY!). I also have the BOSE rear speakers (brand new) all I need at the moment are the front speakers to complete the BOSE setup. Nobody had to go with this extra step since BOSE was there.
2. I need to rewire the car (easy for me I electronic engineer). On top to the BOSE related wires I need to add the VSS wire (is F2, F4 or both?) and not sure about the backup sensing wire (somebody?). And if I need this is negative (-) or positive (+12V)?
3. Interior lamps, one of the problems, the ’97 (and up to a certain year the post ’98) use the two wires for the HU backlights. Ok they have to go since the NAV unit connects the wires to the ground. The actual light command is communicated via data bus. Does anybody know if this is also the case with ’97? Looking to my FSM I see no spot where would be required but the IPC does know the light status, does it broadcast this on the bus?
4. Steering wheel controls. It kind off pass to my ears that ’98 has some issue and the NAV unit does not recognize them. Is this true?
5. Park/Drive status. I also understand some people (with earlier iterations of post ‘98 vehicles) have this problem: the NAV unit thinks is in drive all the time. Is this true? If so is there a work around this? The PCM does knows the shifter position, is also communicated to the data bus (think to the door lock out of park, driver seat adjusts and so on). Again is there an issue here? Can anybody clarify the override code thing (why is needed if no issue)?
6. This is direct for Jason, you specified the 5-th generation has some issues with the DVD bypass code can you extend this idea pleeeeease?
7. CD Changer, ok, ok, is clear I have to ditch the 12 Disk and go with a 6 disk that communicates on the data bus and not the E+C data (removed on the NAV units).
8. Aux input, clear as crystal (nifty function too!).
9. GPS antenna no issue here all clear.
10. Voice commands, I know you need OnStar for the button, you need to wire on the small connector in the back of the NAV unit, dealer program and so on…is the last thing on my mind (if all works but this…fine by me as a start).
11. Maps disk: I have the most stupid question…dose the NAV unit runs the maps from the DVD or is just a first time setup (and eventual updates)?
12. One of the most important questions, if the unit is new (say I get a brand new one from the dealer – $$$ if I am crazy, or what ever…) do you still need the dealer to program the VIN or first time automatically learns the VIN no TechII intervention needed?
13. I kind of had this impression that you can use (limited functions) the unit with a different VIN (that would be before you go to the dealer) as long as you don’t start the car or something?
14. Aaa, and Radio antenna, not power-antenna anymore after ’98 or so (now is a module), also the unit keeps the old fashion antenna input. Am I right, can the power antenna be used (I see the control wire is still there)?
15. I also see some video input stuff, not that it would matter at the moment.

I really appreciate any answers on the above questions, I surely hate spending around $1000 to just experiment.:worship:
Sorry was long but I have so many questions….

kdsevillle
12-17-08, 12:59 AM
It's been covered before, search threw the threads. I think STS2003 is working on a conversion but he's a busy man so it'll be some time before he can finish.

N*Caddy
12-17-08, 08:35 PM
KD I read al I was able to find and access on this subject (one of the best threads for some reason is not accessible anymore). But after reading all the posts I could find I have still the above questions. This is why I was hoping that you and all the other peoples I listed (I am sure I missed a lot) can share some of the experience. Like I mentioned for me is a $1000 gamble.
Somewhere in one of the post is a link to the NAV unit manual. The link is not working anymore. Can anybody help me with the manual or any related material? I have the wire diagram (witch is 70% of what I need), I already made some of the harness (especially the one between the car harness and the HU). All I am still looking for are the answers to the above questions and a fantastic deal for a NAV unit (maybe not the $130 to $270 prices you guys got it for but something close).
Anybody in a 100 miles radius of Toronto with a Tech II?

CadillacSTS42005
12-18-08, 06:27 PM
1. Yup bose needed
2. F2 on nav is vss that is needed no backup wire
3. When i had a factory nav in my 97 ETC it sensed the illum wire no prob through the data class
4. Wheel controls work just fine baring temp up, on all nav cars this was a mic button and on my moms 98 whenever you press this the temp will go up but the nav says something along the lines of "command not recognized"
5/6 If the car is not running the nav open and work fine, if the car is running it does not sense park ever and the 1791 bypass must be entered, if you avoid the last run of nav systems from an 05 car or a car that has been replaced with a new one you should by fine using the bypasses when needed.
7. Correct a 02+ Deville Seville 6 disc changer will be need along with repinning/adding wires to your cd changer plug
8. Glad you get it
9. Again good
10. Forget it you dont have onstar built in, your car used a cell phone for it, wont work, cant add it moving on...
11. Disc needs to be in to use navigation, does not need to be in there if your only listening to music/etc.
12. Theftlock active will appear unless you buy a brand new nav tech ii is needed $35 to relearn the vin is the cost
13. 1st time the unit is in so long as you only put the key into accessory it will not send the vin to verify and "SHOULD" work fine some units can some units cant Gen1&2 work like this 3 had issues. 4&5 forget it, the second you turn the car on it will lock up and STAY locked until it is programmed
14. Again worked fine on my 97
15. Part of the aux in is audio as well as video

sorry it took long to respond you asked alot and i knew id need alot of free time to answer it which i just dont have usually anymore

N*Caddy
12-18-08, 09:59 PM
You are the MAN!!!
Thank you very, very, very, much for your reply.
Almost 10 years ago I was in university January and May was the worst time of the year: the end semester exams (like 7 or 8 per semester). Starting from this time I was kind of starting to prepare for the hell to come…so again I relay appreciate your info and time.

So is working in ’97 that’s a big one.
Illumination data is broadcaster on the data bus (is good to know but after a night of soldering I should be able to work around the problem)
Wheel controls are working again a very big one
Brand-new Nav unit no tech II needed, this is a $100 discount to the retrofit. So if I find a brand new unit just $100 more (yeah right) I should go for it (here in Canada dealer charges $100 for VIN learning).
Disk in the Nav, this kind off sucks, so I can not play music and use the Nav unless I have the CD changer.
Voice commands…ehh, maybe after I have all installed I will consider tackling this issue as an interesting hobby project.

Now where do I find the front doors BOSE speaker (preferably new) money will reflect the condition, and that reasonably priced Denso Nav unit (preferable first 2 generations)?

Again J really thank you, at least I know is working, ‘97 data bus and Nav unit are speaking the same language :worship:.

N*Caddy
12-26-08, 07:43 PM
HUH!

This is something…so I was watching this brand new NAV unit for sale on E-bay, I offered the guy the $600 (Buy Now price) all I asked him the shipping price for Canada. He did not replied to me but instead just sold the unit accepting one of the offers ($500). Is this guy and IDIOT or what?????
Man I am so pissed off! :rant2:

N*Caddy
12-26-08, 09:49 PM
Jesus what an IDIOT! (sorry can go over it :helpless:)
He just set me back $150, I can express enough how upset I am, the fact that he actually lost $100 from me almost made up but man :punch: :rant2:…
I kind of believe he just bought “himself” the unit and is going to list it back for more (considering the interest – 12 offers - and the price for similar items). Anyway something is fishy about this guy…all his transactions are “private”.
So any way I just bought a brand NEW Denso NAV unit :banana: (another one, not the one from this IDIOT).

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=240&pictureid=1736
The part number is 25755259. Although is none of the 5 part numbers J enumerated here (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-seville-cadillac-eldorado-forum/147974-factory-navigation-install-into-non-nav.html), I found-it mentioned somewhere (I think Ur7x installed this unit in his car (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forum/t-50092.html)).
Just out of curiosity, anybody knows this part number? Ur7x, J?
Witch generation is this?
Then, what NAV Disk P# I need?
I also read here (from eclipse5302) (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-seville-cadillac-eldorado-forum/65002-2002-navigation-1998-seville-13.html) that an Alpine GPS antenna is compatible with the Denso NAV unit. Panasonic will work too (but I hate Panasonic – no reason, just don’t like this brand). Is this true? Either one goes for under $20 on E-Bay (and you can find tons literally). The Alpine antenna come whit 2 m – 5 m cable (gives you more freedom), while the OEM is almost 3 times the price (and a very short cable). Here is a picture with one:

46551
Moving forward, although I just broke my bank I am one step closer to my dream: OEM-ish NAV in 1997 STS (not to mention I am starting with a non-BOSE car).
All I need now is a set of front BOSE speakers and the long gone warm whether to complete the project, oh yeah, and another CD changer. At least I need no visit to the dealer (that’s a $100 save $$).
Looks like this car is going to cost me almost $15K this year alone (and the 2008 is not finished yet).

CadillacSTS42005
12-27-08, 02:35 PM
congrats
i seen that unit too
was just posted last night
alpine/kenwood nav antenna will work

N*Caddy
12-27-08, 03:51 PM
WOW!
Check out the prices for the Kenwood antennas (~$60), I guess I am going with Alpine. J I hope you were not among the two offers on the unit.
How about the disk J, you know a P#?
This is going to be interesting, about 4-5 years ago during my Master I was developing mapping and data acquisition software for a GPS application. The actual hardware (and firmware) for the GPS/GSM unit was made by a small company a friend of mine is owning (smart guy, he is also an assistant in the same University I went). I did the GPS (SMS initially then CSD/GPRS) data acquisition part and the utility software used by the computer operators to build the map. It was an interesting project; the unit in the car was more designed for fleet monitoring and alarm than navigation. We had various features like panic button or remote engine shut down. GPS wise everything was Trimble and GSM was Siemens.
So I guess now I will "stretch my GPS legs again". Is so much easier when you work with your own system than working with something somebody else designed. But any way from the looks of things this is far easier to install than what we did.

mike.nite
12-28-08, 09:12 AM
WOW!
Check out the prices for the Kenwood antennas (~$60), I guess I am going with Alpine. J I hope you were not among the two offers on the unit.
How about the disk J, you know a P#?
This is going to be interesting, about 4-5 years ago during my Master I was developing mapping and data acquisition software for a GPS application. The actual hardware (and firmware) for the GPS/GSM unit was made by a small company a friend of mine is owning (smart guy, he is also an assistant in the same University I went). I did the GPS (SMS initially then CSD/GPRS) data acquisition part and the utility software used by the computer operators to build the map. It was an interesting project; the unit in the car was more designed for fleet monitoring and alarm than navigation. We had various features like panic button or remote engine shut down. GPS wise everything was Trimble and GSM was Siemens.
So I guess now I will "stretch my GPS legs again". Is so much easier when you work with your own system than working with something somebody else designed. But any way from the looks of things this is far easier to install than what we did.


Some additions:

4. Steering wheel controls works perfect on a friends 98 and my 99.

5. I also do have to enter the 1791 every time(Although I found the correct VSS wire). This kind of sucks but you get used to it.

10. Would love to have this too - but seems to be a lot of work/parts searching.

12. When you go to the dealer for the vin relearn you can also get your drivers name programmed (Appears on the home display). My dealer did this for free.



As side job (next to university) I'm working for a security company which offers fleetmangement, vehicle tracking and personal tracking. After finishing my nav installation in my 99 STS I installed a web based GPS-Tracking security system. GeoFencing, Motion/Lift sensors, Ignition controls and additional in-/outputs make this unit a high class security feature. Recieving alarms and be able to track my vehicle any time and anywhere (PC or iPhone) makes me sleep much better:)

Anyway - just want to tell you that your background is very interesting for me. Good luck for your Nav installation and keep us posted.

Mike

N*Caddy
12-28-08, 11:26 AM
Mike, that is very interesting, we made both a Desktop (Dispatch) application and a web base application. I had a coworker making the actual web page and I made the engine behind and the database. Basically the web page was requesting to my application a certain car in a certain time interval and I was selecting the data from a MySQL database and return-it as a picture (drawing the map and placing showing the trajectory) and a string in a certain format. This was a list with all the positions the vehicle was recorded in the requested interval (plus the statistics related with each position). You were able to scroll over the picture and get the street name, speed, date/time, direction heading, and the Inputs/outputs State for each position. Also I was calculating the distance the vehicle traveled. For the Desktop base application the idea was the same only I was the one downloading the data from the units via GSM (CSD or GPRS) – so I know a lot about the AT protocol. Well for GPRS the units were programmed to periodically dump the data in the MySQL database. We end up using SMS just to program the IP (and other settings) for the units to dump the data, CSD for a quick download of the last positions (in case was needed) and GPRS (much cheaper) for continuous data dumping in the database. I also worked (just for fun) to do a small embedded application for PDAs. It was just a fun thing so I did not went to far, just read the NMEA string from the GPS antenna, and display on the screen some statistics (instant speed, distance and such).
Now is all about the money, no more interesting projects unfortunately, all day long designing small variations of the same electrical cabinets (so I make lots of cable and wires every day). Here and there the opportunity to make some small software application for some machine on the shop floor (that is my fun time) and that’s it.

mike.nite
12-28-08, 01:19 PM
Mike, that is very interesting, we made both a Desktop (Dispatch) application and a web base application. I had a coworker making the actual web page and I made the engine behind and the database. Basically the web page was requesting to my application a certain car in a certain time interval and I was selecting the data from a MySQL database and return-it as a picture (drawing the map and placing showing the trajectory) and a string in a certain format. This was a list with all the positions the vehicle was recorded in the requested interval (plus the statistics related with each position). You were able to scroll over the picture and get the street name, speed, date/time, direction heading, and the Inputs/outputs State for each position. Also I was calculating the distance the vehicle traveled. For the Desktop base application the idea was the same only I was the one downloading the data from the units via GSM (CSD or GPRS) – so I know a lot about the AT protocol. Well for GPRS the units were programmed to periodically dump the data in the MySQL database. We end up using SMS just to program the IP (and other settings) for the units to dump the data, CSD for a quick download of the last positions (in case was needed) and GPRS (much cheaper) for continuous data dumping in the database. I also worked (just for fun) to do a small embedded application for PDAs. It was just a fun thing so I did not went to far, just read the NMEA string from the GPS antenna, and display on the screen some statistics (instant speed, distance and such).
Now is all about the money, no more interesting projects unfortunately, all day long designing small variations of the same electrical cabinets (so I make lots of cable and wires every day). Here and there the opportunity to make some small software application for some machine on the shop floor (that is my fun time) and that’s it.


I see - the products seems to be very related (GPRS, SQL, SW, Web).
Right now we are launching a personal tracker (size of a small cell phone) and a new Iphone App (Server-UMTS connection). It's quite a interesting topic and people are always fascinated when they watch/realise realtime tracking.

Do you still need the User Manual?

N*Caddy
12-28-08, 02:54 PM
Do you still need the User Manual?
OH YEAH!
I am still looking for the manual. I am not sure the unit (although brand new) will come with the manual. It was not specified thus I assume is not included.
If you have-it I can PM to you my e-mail address. :worship:

Human psychology is pretty interesting; we had big problems with the drivers with units installed on the cars (company cars). For some reason they were not happy with that so I found pulled wires and such on a regular basis also comments like “since they put that crap in my car nothing works anymore”. It was fun though seeing the trips some of the cars were taking (not scheduled obviously). If they only knew that a small metal can placed over the antenna will hide their tracks. :histeric:
Also in my experience a cell phone next to the antenna will do the trick (initially we placed the GSM and GPS antennas one next to the other and took a while to understand this).

mike.nite
12-29-08, 05:03 AM
OH YEAH!
I am still looking for the manual. I am not sure the unit (although brand new) will come with the manual. It was not specified thus I assume is not included.
If you have-it I can PM to you my e-mail address. :worship:

Human psychology is pretty interesting; we had big problems with the drivers with units installed on the cars (company cars). For some reason they were not happy with that so I found pulled wires and such on a regular basis also comments like “since they put that crap in my car nothing works anymore”. It was fun though seeing the trips some of the cars were taking (not scheduled obviously). If they only knew that a small metal can placed over the antenna will hide their tracks. :histeric:
Also in my experience a cell phone next to the antenna will do the trick (initially we placed the GSM and GPS antennas one next to the other and took a while to understand this).


We made exactly the same expirience. It is essential to inform people about the advantages (advantages for the company) before installing the units.
But there are still alot people which are scared because they think on a "big brother" scenario instead of the benefits for the company. Anyway we also found some chopped wires :). Now whe have packed the units in security boxes and the wires are wrapped in/protected. But the trick with the cell phone doesn't work on our units. My understanding is that they have a very strong signal and a kind of filter.

Just PM me and I'll send you the User Manual (Think 2002 is the newest)

N*Caddy
01-03-09, 06:08 PM
Based on the tracking information, my NAV unit cleared the customs (unfortunately it was Friday) so I am expecting to receive-it by Monday-Tuesday(ish).
Mean while I was just reading the Navigation System Supplement (thanks Mike for the manual) and I just got to the Automatic Volume Control (AVC) function. For some reason I find this function very useful and the question is does the unit have an internal microphone to detect the cabin noise or is using the one from the voice commands (i.e. will not work without OnStart).

About my interior lights worry (see point 3 on first post), I just realized the car has few VFD (off course) and they do need to know when the lights are on/off and what is the dimmer position. Thus yes the light status is broadcasted on the network for various modules (including the NAV unit) so J now I am sure it will work.

The NAV disc question still remains: does anybody know what P# NAV disk I need?

CadillacSTS42005
01-03-09, 07:01 PM
the AVC used the onstar mic built into the overhead on Sevs/Devs
Eldos dont have it

N*Caddy
01-03-09, 07:19 PM
Ahhhh :banghead:, I was afraid of that!
So I guess next in the agenda is OnStar. I really, really want to have AVC (more than voice commands).

CadillacSTS42005
01-03-09, 08:22 PM
idk
your car is set up for the onstar cell phone
the new onstar is a module with integrated parts mounted thought the car
and runs on the data class
your probably going to hit some major walls...

i shut the ASR off on my STS as whenever i nail the corsa the volume skyrockets...

N*Caddy
01-03-09, 09:40 PM
Well I like my car dead quiet:shhh: (and also :dumbbells:), so no worries about the exhaust, but I do find the wind noise overwhelming at 60MPH and up. Currently I have to adjust the volume by hand :mad:. Every morning when I go to the car I am just awaked by the loud volume left UP from my last night trip. Well it does wake me up :bonkers:(although now is also cold outside so no need) but since is a Cadillac I like to do al the adjustments for me.

N*Caddy
01-05-09, 07:51 PM
Ok so the NAV unit has arrived… YAHOOO!
Appears new (all stickers in the right place no scratches). Obviously first thing I tried to do was to bench test-it. So I connected the power and doesn’t turn on. The buttons lights turn ON for about 7-10 seconds and the fan in the back is spinning, but other than that nothing (no response to any button). After the 7-10 seconds the lights turn off and the fan too. I tried to connect the RIM (data wires + power) and tried to fire it up. The RIM does send power to the amp relays wire (I even connected a relay and it works) but it does that as long as it has power. The NAV unit behaves the same (with or without RIM). The ‘99 CD/TAPE/Radio behaves in a almost similar manner except that does not turns the lights on (expectable since the lights are hard wired not data bus controlled) and does not respond to any button (except CD eject, and pull the CD if inserted, plus displays 00:00 time 5 seconds after I press the DSP button). Now the ’99 HU suppose to have a VIN in the memory (since it was pulled from a car).

Anybody tried to bench test the NAV unit? Keep in mind the unit supposes to be brand new never installed in the car (thus blank VIN in the memory).
Anybody?

CadillacSTS42005
01-05-09, 08:58 PM
doesnt sound good....

N*Caddy
01-05-09, 09:21 PM
J did you connected the power (only) to some NAV unit (like bench test only) and you got different results (with or without a blank VIN)?
I also noticed my power supply under load supplies about 9.9V, could that be to low (I would say not realy)?

CadillacSTS42005
01-05-09, 09:34 PM
nah im just messing with you
because these units are part of the data class it uses a signal sense from them
only way to test it is to plug it into a working car
if you plug it into yours it should boot up fine

N*Caddy
01-05-09, 10:13 PM
Ok connected the power one more time definitely tries to do something, I can hear something on the Chime wires (with headphones attached :cookoo::D). Is not a chime is just white noise (very low) and above the noise with a 1-2 sec frequency I can hear some slightly louder noise (that seems to be like a skipping CD). Is either a digital signal (God I hope not) or the harmonics induced by some electrical device (say a motor that starts and stops, or any kind of power fluctuation, although the current is pretty constant @ ~1.3 Amp). I certainly hope the chime is not a digital signal because the RIM expects an analog sound signal. It is strange because the 2002(3) wire diagram describes the chime wires as “Chime module BIT1 signal”and “Chime Module BIT2 signal”. Although the wires are shielded (thus I am kind of expecting to an analog signal).
Anyway I am dying to see the unit booting up so I will temporarily connect to the car probably this weekend, forget about the whether, I am willing to dip in snow (and that will probably be one of the last things I will do) just to se the unit booting up.

CadillacSTS42005
01-05-09, 10:26 PM
Weather you mean
not whether lol

N*Caddy
01-05-09, 11:02 PM
Damn speller, typing to fast, to excited…
In some other thread about a leak guess what he replaced the word with :drool:?

CadillacSTS42005
01-05-09, 11:57 PM
huh?

N*Caddy
01-06-09, 12:29 AM
I was licking 10W30 all over that post :alchi:
Anyway just prepared my adapter harness for the car HU test, I might do-it before the weekend (can not wait).

CadillacSTS42005
01-06-09, 09:32 AM
why do i see smoking radio in your future
lol
jk
youll do fine
just got to hope you dont have the lack of audio
i know the unit will work on any data class 2 cadillac

N*Caddy
01-06-09, 08:54 PM
Ok so this afternoon I just put the unit in the car (connected power F1 & E16 and data F6 & E6 only) and unfortunately does not start. Same story, all the lights are on but this time stay on as long as the car supplies power to the harness. Other than that I had no reaction to any button.
The good-ish news is that it throws error codes on the IPC:
B2462 - GPS Signal Error
B2463 - Navigation CD Player - No Disk
B2475 - Navigation Display Head (NDH) Auxiliary Input Malfunction
While the first two codes are pretty normal (since the unit has no GPS antenna and disk of any kind) the third one is a big mystery (what Auxiliary input, I had nothing connected in there).
So the big question is (the $1000 question):
How does the unit behave when is blocked (I mean has a different VIN in the memory), no screen display no tilt no nothing?

I mean I certainly hope is blocked, it will only cost me around $100 + taxes otherwise is an almost $938 CND lost. The add was clearly stating:
“There is no code stored it this unit so it will not need to be unlocked by a dealer.”

The unit part number is 25755259. J, anybody had experience on this matter?


Let me put it this way:
From the moment you connected the NAV unit in the car until the moment you arrive to the dealership to have the VIN relearned how was the unit behaving? Did you have any response from any button? Did the screen turned on displaying something (anything)?

CadillacSTS42005
01-06-09, 10:48 PM
the pinning is NOT the same for your car and that nav unit
i assume you were repinning it!
you MUST do that or you risk frying the bcm or the nav
that aux malfunction is the ground sense wire for the nav for the aux input feature getting another signal sense other than ground!

N*Caddy
01-06-09, 11:19 PM
No I made no mistake (checked 4-5 times):
F1 ……….+12V
E16 ……… GND
E6 ………. Serial data
F6 ………. Serial data
The Aux. enable signal is F16 nothing was connected to that pin.
Although I made a small adapter harness (with only these wires) by coincidence these wires are the same even in my car so I went 1 to 1. So I did not connected the car harness connector, I connected the adapter harness in the HU preserving only the power and data (hence the NAV unit did sent to the IPC the error codes I mentioned). Basically the adapter harness only preserves the power and data wires from all the others in the car harness.

J how is the unit behaving when is locked? Does the screen turn ON? Does it tilts? Anything?

I need to know if the unit is blocked or not so I know what I tell the seller. There is a DOA warranty and a 7-day return. Not to mention he did state the unit is new never installed (no VIN), even specified I don’t need to go to the dealer is just plug and play.

CadillacSTS42005
01-07-09, 12:14 AM
unit will power up
blue splash screen with 02+ crest and wreath show
then in a gray box with black letters
THEFTLOCK PROTECTION ACTIVE will light up

you have to be missing a wire for it not to fully power up...
make sure your twilight and all lamps are off
and directly connect the unit to your OE plug
see if it lights up
as long as you keep the dimmer off youll be okay

N*Caddy
01-07-09, 12:15 AM
Yet another 5 or 6 tests later and the adapter harness if fine:

Here is my adapter harness:
32 pins Male Connector-------------------->32 pins Female Connector
F1----------------------------------------------->F1 (+12V)
E16--------------------------------------------->E16 (GND)
F6----------------------------------------------->F6 (Serial Data)
E6----------------------------------------------->E6 (Serial Data)

Also just for fun I bench powered my trusty old Catera HU using the adapter and yet all fine.

Returning to the NAV unit:
The power was good since the unit sent the 3 error codes to the IPC (thus it was working).
The data wires were good since the IPC did received the error message from the unit.

The codes were current with the NAV unit connected to the car. Then suddenly vanished when the unit was removed from the car (I mean not even in history).

So my harness is good, my only hope now is that the VIN was not blank (as stated in the sale).

I have two data sources for my car pin layout (the FSM and the Mitchell Repair Manual) both consistent, and also two data sources for the 2002/2003 pin layout for the NAV unit (same Mitchell Repair Manual and the diagrams J posted - also consistent). Then I have two (various years) HUs and based on my measurements the pins are correct. I am absolutely positive everything is correct. Yet the unit does not boot, lights on the buttons turn on but that’s about it, no response to any button, no image on the screen.

N*Caddy
01-07-09, 12:18 AM
unit will power up
blue splash screen with 02+ crest and wreath show
then in a gray box with black letters
THEFTLOCK PROTECTION ACTIVE will light up

you have to be missing a wire for it not to fully power up...
make sure your twilight and all lamps are off
and directly connect the unit to your OE plug
see if it lights up
as long as you keep the dimmer off youll be okay

Do you know if this is also available for this part number unit 25755259?

I am willing to bet all my savings the wiring was fine and no wire is missing. My unit (and all the non-NAV units) have an second ground on F5. On the NAV unit that is a “Antenna select band 2 signal” (thus here is a possible problem – output shorted to ground).
E1 is not needed (is the power antenna, definitely not important)
E4 – not used (in NAV units)
E5 is just a shield
E6 – data wire (essential and was connected)
E7 – Auxiliary video low signal (not important, can go without)
E8 – Auxiliary video low high (not important, can go without)
E9 – Auxiliary audio Left (not important)
E10 – Auxiliary audio Right (not important)
E11 is just a shield
E12 – Audio out left + (not important)
E13 – Audio out left – (not important)
E14 shield
E15 shield
E16 – GND (absolutely essential and was connected)
F1 – PWR + (absolutely essential and was connected)
F2 – VSS (not essential)
F3 – Not used (in NAV units)
F4 – Antenna select band 1 signal (not needed)
F5 – Antenna select band 2 signal (not needed)
F6 – data wire (essential and was connected)
F11 – Shield (for chime)
F12 – Chime signal - (Not essential)
F13 – Chime signal + (Not essential)
F14 – Audio out right - (not important)
F15 – Audio out right + (not important)
F16 – Auxiliary Detection signal (not important)

So there is really no wire needed, all you need is power and data.

CadillacSTS42005
01-07-09, 08:34 AM
wrong
for the navs the fire from E4 is carried over from the non nav harness to the nav plug

Cliff8928
01-07-09, 01:02 PM
Yep, E4 is not specific for navigation or not. (Navigation (domestic) being RPO U3R). The wire at E4 is labeled as FM Composite Signal and goes to the antenna module.

CadillacSTS42005
01-07-09, 04:12 PM
wow
idk why i said fire
i ment wire...
lol

N*Caddy
01-07-09, 06:55 PM
Ok the F4 is NOT IMPORTANT for boot up (in my setup is not used anyway) suppose to go to the antenna selector module (’98 and UP glass integrated antennas). Yes my mistake I missed this wire, basically this is the wire that commands the module to select between the FM and AM antenna.

Just one last question before I return the unit.
While the unit is blocked (i.e. the blue splash screen with the “THEFTLOCK PROTECTION ACTIVE” in the gray box) does it responds to the TILT command? (Please say is not because it means the display is kaput/fried/stone dead + the unit is blocked on some VIN – but I have no way to see that since the display is dead).

I must say I am pretty pissed off due to the whole thing :rant2:.

CadillacSTS42005
01-07-09, 09:22 PM
no
the screen wont even open if its theftlocked
trust me
i wish it could id be easier to send disks

if you have aim im me
lacsevillets
easier to talk direct there and there are some things id like not to divulge...

N*Caddy
01-08-09, 10:37 PM
Today was the second attempt, connected the NAV unit along with the RIM and nope, still dead screen same error messages on IPC. Then I swapped with my other spare unit ’99 BOSE Eldo unit and fired right up. So conclusion, the NAV unit is DOA.

CadillacSTS42005
01-09-09, 05:03 PM
i dont think so
but gl

N*Caddy
01-22-09, 07:50 PM
I just returned the NAV unit. I can get pass that AUX input error code. The seller had no other to replace this one so now I am back to square one. Looking again for a NAV unit (preferably Gen.1) in case somebody has one.
Meanwhile working hard on the BOSE conversion. The work on those wire harnesses is progressing so slowly (the shielding part is killing me). I did not went the easy route buying shielded cable, I am going the hard way (as from factory) with 22 & 18 AWG wires (by case) and bare wire + aluminum foil tape for shield, then on top black electrical tape. In the end the harness looks as made from factory. The only thing I was unable to replicate is the wires color – can find some colors. So far I invested ~$130 in wire spools alone not to mention shielding tape + electrical tape + some 2 more weekends of harness making.

Ur7x
01-24-09, 12:51 AM
I got your PM and I'm sad to report that I cannot offer any more help then STS2003 has already offered.. It looks to me like your suspicion that something is wrong with the head unit is right.

My advice would be work with STS2003, he is your best chance to get this to work... He has successfully done several of these conversions. If he can't do it, no one can...

I have a question for STS2003... did you ever get the voice activation on your system to work?

CadillacSTS42005
01-24-09, 12:54 AM
nope
to date i have never had a non nav car to a nav car have voice command work
i had the dealer look into it and they said its a feature they turned on in the BCM
its on now but still it doesnt work
i THINK the onstar module needs reprogrammed which i was planning on having done when i upgraded my onstar but i never got around to it

Ur7x
01-24-09, 01:57 PM
nope
to date i have never had a non nav car to a nav car have voice command work
i had the dealer look into it and they said its a feature they turned on in the BCM
its on now but still it doesnt work
i THINK the onstar module needs reprogrammed which i was planning on having done when i upgraded my onstar but i never got around to it

Bummer... my parents just got a new Lexus IS and the voice activated NAV is very cool.

N*Caddy
03-17-09, 08:31 PM
Update,
Just received the second NAV unit today, way more expensive in the end thanks to the Canadian customs. This unit is GEN 1 but with GEN 3 firmware, thus this unit is GEN 3. The unit looks almost exactly like the first one (witch suppose to be brand new) so I am more than happy with the shape considering this is a used unit. The advantage of the used unit is: I know it was working when removed.
So again high expectations…hope to test-it soon.

N*Caddy
03-18-09, 10:51 PM
Ok today was the prelim test day.
I finally got IMAGE on the screen!

http://5ileup.com/images/1803091849.jpg
Now all I have to do is load the firmware.
The unit was connected to the car’s diagnose port (both power and data), but since no firmware no need of data (so I think, I did not actually tried with no data wire), so for a minute or so I had two stereos on my car. The strange thing is that the ’99 Theftlocked unit I have (as a guinea pig or test mule) does not start unless I have the key in ACC while the NAV unit starts as soon as I connect the power (diagnose port has power all times). This is why I believe with no firmware does not communicates anything (duh seems logic) but I did not tested.
Hope after the firmware is loaded, the unit will like my car's data bus and work. That's all I am asking.
Anybody has an exact explanation why would the firmware be gone since last time when in the donor car (few weeks ago) the firmware was in?
As far as I am concerned today was a good day.

N*Caddy
03-22-09, 06:06 PM
Today I found the time for another test round with the NAV unit.
First I connected the unit to the car’s diagnose port as follows:

http://5ileup.com/images/nav.jpg
Then inserted the firmware disk

http://5ileup.com/images/2203091509.jpg
Then after almost one minute started to load the firmware

http://5ileup.com/images/2203091511xdx.jpg
Then once the firmware was loaded (5 minutes or so) beeped 3 times retracted the screen and DEAD. Exactly the same behavior as with the first one: no image on the screen and does not responds to any button. The firmware CD is inside, I can hear the unit spinning the disk for the first moments after the power is applied but nothing else the screen is black. Removing the GPS antenna I get the B2462 code on the IPC, reconnecting the antenna back the code goes to history. That is about it. Looks like I am back to square one.

CadillacSTS42005
03-23-09, 08:02 PM
told ya
you other nav was fine..
its something to do with how your car isnt reading an RIM and bose stereo me thinks...

N*Caddy
03-24-09, 09:06 PM
RIM was connected with the other unit at no avail.
RIM+'99 Eldo HU connected (off the car but data cable between the two), when power applied RIM turns the AMP relays ON, 15 seconds later (no activity) the RIM turns the relays OFF, pressing the clock buttons on the HU RIM turns the relays on for another 15 seconds (or so). Conclusion ’99 HU and RIM do communicate on the data wire. Replaced ’99 HU with NAV HU the RIM turns the AMP relays ON for the usual 15 (or so first seconds). The NAV HU keeps the LEDs on for the first 10 sec. or so then OFF. No matter what button I press on the NAV HU the RIM will not turn the AMP relays on.
Remove RIM and connect ’99 HU and NAV HU on the data bus, after 10 seconds or so the NAV HU turns OFF the LEDs. Pressing the clock buttons on the ’99 HU the NAV HU turns the LEDs on for ~.5 sec (each time). Thus there is some communication initiated by the ’99 HU, the NAV HU receives data but does not send.
As a curiosity, if pressing and holding SETUP button on the NAV HU after power up the HU beeps (after about 5-7 seconds) and holds the LED’s on for an extra 20 seconds or so.
The ‘99 HU connected to the car will power UP as soon as the ignition is ON (no matter if I supply power from before – continuous power not ACC power). Once ON I get the THEFTLOCK message on the screen (not sure if this is generated because the VIN is not received or received but does not match the one in the HU). I also get the Theftlock code on IPC and the message about “car might not restart”, thus ’99 HU communicates with the car (regardless if the RIM is in or not). I also get the correct clock on the HU display (so communicates with the PCM too). I need to clear the VIN from the ’99 HU and have a definitive answer, if THEFTLOCK message is gone then PCM send the VIN at the HU’s request so no reason why the NAV HU would not receive-it. The NAV unit communicates with the IPC because with no GPS antenna I get the error code on the IPC.
Also the LEDs intensity is controlled by the dimmer, thus NAV unit communicates with the PZM too, just no image on the screen and no reaction to any button.
I converted my car from Canada to US, so this concern is also out from the equation. Should be EXACTLY as your Eldorado that you said the unit worked on. What month is your Eldorado made?

Any idea why the NAV HU holds the Firmware for only 30 seconds after the power is disconnected? You do know the unit, is the one you refreshed the firmware to gen. 3.

N*Caddy
05-18-09, 07:40 PM
Since I was swapping the HU, today I decided to get another shot with the NAV unit, so I removed the interior lamps wires from the harness and plugged the NAV unit. Loaded the firmware and this time behaved slightly different, usually beeps 4-5 times when the firmware is loaded then nothing this time beeped twice then 3 seconds delay and then the usual 4-5 beeps. I also noticed that with no firmware when plugged on the car harness the power antenna goes up then once the firmware is loaded the antenna goes down and no reaction. The only thing it does is responding to the interior lights dimmer, so at least that part of the data communication works.
Uhhh! :nono:
This time was for real with RIM on the network and the full BOSE setup, the ONLY missing wire from the harness was the vehicle speed (should not matter).

Caddi02DTS
05-22-09, 09:13 PM
I had some work done on my 02 DTS and while it sat at the dealer for 2 months the battery went dead and after charging the navigation screen says Cation cannot load system software. Disk type incorrect. Please install correct system disk.

Does anyone have a software disk that they can email me the file or does anyone know where I can buy one??

Thanks in advance

Caddi02DTS

P.S. this is my first time on the site and it is really great for Caddi owners, lots of info. Glad that I found it online!!!

N*Caddy
07-19-09, 08:25 PM
Ok today I did some more tests with the NAV unit.
First of all for all of you who are experiencing the firmware lost issue I know what is the problem will cost you $2 to fix. In the left side of the DVD module is a CR2032 Lithium battery. That battery is suppose to hold your firmware in memory for 1 year when new. In time does not hold the charge so you end up loosing the firmware if the car sits for a while. So go to your computer/electronics store and ask for a CB2032 battery. Take the HU out of the dash and remove the top cover, then the DVD module (held in place by 7 or so screws). Replace the battery (require soldering) and you are all set.

Now back to my navigation issue.
So now I have BOSE thus no excuse should work. Well I connected the unit to the car data link connector (all you need to connect is power and one of the data wires). First strange thing was after loading the firmware it did not beeped (strange).
With the firmware loaded (same 3.10 version) it does follow the dimmer switch (I turn the parking lights on the back lights on the NAV unit turn on, I am turning the dimmer switch the light do dim accordingly). There is a ~0.5s delay witch is due to the time it takes for the NAV unit to receive the information from the data bus.
Then a little bit more hope, if I turn the radio on (remember I do have a BOSE in-dash HU) well the sound is pulsing (between the HU volume and a higher volume) with a frequency of 1-2 pulses per second. So basically there is a “fight” for the RIM control between the in-dash CD BOSE HU and the NAV unit.
If I press the music button on the NAV unit the sound gradually mutes in 2 seconds or so. The same happens if I press the NAV button and TILT. Turning the volume knob on the BOSE HU the sound is back (with the same pulsing volume effect). Unplugging the NAV unit the sound is instantly back to normal.
The only difference with the unit connected to the data bus and unit disconnected is that w/o data bus connection pressing SETUP button (for 4-5 seconds) the unit beeps once, while if connected to the data bus it doesn’t. Also w/o data link the unit shuts down after ~15 seconds while w/data link it stays on.
But regardless it does not responds to any button and NO image at all.
Agrrrr :rant2:, if I only had a way to convert the CAN protocol on the car’s network to a RS232 signal so I can see what’s going on with that data bus!
I still believe there is some message that the unit expects to receive from the car’s network and it doesn’t. So far I suspect the problem is with the VCM module witch is missing in the ‘96-’97 Seville and ‘96-’02 Eldorado, but is present in the ’98 and up Seville (and Deville at some point after).
Anybody knows where is the VCM located in a ’98 and up Seville, or has a picture with one. I am looking for one to have-it connected to the data bus along with the NAV unit, maybe that’s what the NAV units is looking for.

Can anybody help me with a GEN I firmware?

And the only code I get is:
B2462 - GPS Signal Error
If I disconnect the GPS antenna, other than that NOTHING.

chazglenn3
07-20-09, 09:31 AM
Check your PM...

CadillacSTS42005
07-20-09, 08:59 PM
i got ESI
lemme know if you need more help bro!

N*Caddy
07-20-09, 10:21 PM
i got ESI
lemme know if you need more help bro!

I have the chance to get any OBDII module out of a '98 and start connecting them to my data line with the NAV unit so I need to know where to start first (is not free).
Can you give me some details about the VCM in a '98 and newer (this is what I would start with). Where is located (exactly) and what it does ('97 and older don't have one).
Also some various Gen. firmware (other than 03.10) especially Gen. I would help maybe (the unit I have is Gen. I but that's just a sticker now, is all in the firmware).
Not about NAV but some how related, do you have the wiring diagram of a Heads Up display (or any details about this device, is part of the IPC or a stand-alone module?). I am fiddling with the idea of retrofitting one.
Just out of curiosity what month is Elaine made? Mine is May (bought June) maybe that matters.

CadillacSTS42005
07-20-09, 11:03 PM
idk
Elaine is RIP
ill see if i have a photo laying around of the door sticker

i know the nav that worked was a 1st gen as it has the BOSE at the bottom
its the unit in my 03 STS (which is at the dealer right now for a blown speaker lol)

ThumperPup
07-23-09, 12:00 PM
4. Wheel controls work just fine baring temp up, on all nav cars this was a mic button and on my moms 98 whenever you press this the temp will go up but the nav says something along the lines of "command not recognized


now this helps me understand why when i hit the Temp Down button the navi does this same thing on my 2000 seville

ThumperPup
07-23-09, 12:11 PM
idk
Elaine is RIP
ill see if i have a photo laying around of the door sticker

i know the nav that worked was a 1st gen as it has the BOSE at the bottom
its the unit in my 03 STS (which is at the dealer right now for a blown speaker lol)

wow they still have the car i thout they had it 2 weeks ago for the speeker or did they hav eto do somting els to it then yikes thats a long itme tell them fix it and get it back to you

N*Caddy
08-22-09, 06:46 PM
Well … I had high hopes on this highly specialized stereo place I got the contact information from a GM dealer. Well I called the number asked for the guy I was told and turned out to be an aftermarket stereo installer shop (for Cadillac). I actually was more knowledgeable in the field than the guy I spoke with.
Looks like I am on my own on this…
So again, anybody can tell me the location of a VCM in a 98 and newer STS, my strategy is to add one on the data bus hoping that’s what the NAV unit looks for.

CadillacSTS42005
08-23-09, 08:24 AM
i think the VCM is part of the BCM
ill check ESI right now

CadillacSTS42005
08-23-09, 08:28 AM
wow i was wrong
it is its own seperate module

Remove left sound insulator. Refer to Closeout/Insulator Panel Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Lower in Instrument Panel Gauges and Console.
Remove electrical connector from module.
Move bottom of module (3) towards brake pedal first and then slide down from bracket (2).

N*Caddy
08-23-09, 10:16 AM
wow i was wrong
it is its own seperate module

Remove left sound insulator. Refer to Closeout/Insulator Panel Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Lower in Instrument Panel Gauges and Console.
Remove electrical connector from module.
Move bottom of module (3) towards brake pedal first and then slide down from bracket (2).

Do you have a picture/diagram to post for me? :worship:

CadillacSTS42005
08-23-09, 11:41 AM
sure thing
http://i26.tinypic.com/1qix5h.gif
http://i26.tinypic.com/mwum42.gif
http://i31.tinypic.com/nls9kp.gif

info of the specific location according to ESI
PASS-Key® III Theft Deterrent Module
Left hand of the instrument panel, right of the steering column

and heres the pin out for the connector to ensure you have the right one
http://i31.tinypic.com/sdmrlt.gif

Pin
Wire Color
Circuit No.
Function

A
ORN
440
Fused Output - Battery

B
YEL
1836
Magnetic Rotation Detection Sensor Signal

C
BLK
1459
Magnetic Rotation Detection Ignition Key Cylinder Sensor Feed - 12 Volt Reference

D
PPL
1807
Class 2 Serial Data Line

E
PPL
1807
Class 2 Serial Data Line

F
WHT
1390
Ignition Switch Output - Off/Run/Crank

G
YEL/BLK
625
Starter Enable Control

H
BLK/WHT
451
Ground

J
WHT
1835
Magnetic Rotation Detection Sensor Signal

K
--
--
Not Used

N*Caddy
08-31-09, 11:27 PM
Some how just by looking to the pin description this VCM does not seem to be it so I am starting with the RIM (the most logical unit). I just borrowed today one ’98 STS RIM from Jake to do the tests. Well I actually tested the NAV unit in one of so many Cadillac he has and connected just to the data port (same way I am testing in my car) fired right up, I got to see for the first time in my life live the NAV unit blue screen with the Cadillac crest in the background. I loaded the firmware and did not beeped (again strange...same like last time in my car) then no image – so far like in my car. Turned the ignition ON and BAM! in 1 second I had the image in the screen. Is funny how with both the original HU and the NAV unit connected to the car bus I was able to control the volume from either one, is actually amusing. But sadly so far in my car still no worky. So in the Adam Savage (Myth Busters) spirit I would say with the ’98 RIM I got 20% chances to turn the NAV unit ON (YAHOOO!), 79% chances no change, 1% chances something that I can not imagine will happen.
Let’s see…

N*Caddy
09-05-09, 05:49 PM
Nope the RIM made no difference…
Back to the VCM, I kind of see what is the problem, if I turn the ignition on it does not receive all the data requested. Say now I realize that all vehicles with NAV have Pass Key III. Can anybody give me more details about this VCM?
What is the VCM function?
What is the Magnetic Rotation Detection Sensor Signal?
Where are these 1459 and 1835 circuits connected?

N*Caddy
10-18-09, 11:11 PM
Still working on it…
So back to the VCM, I am unable to locate the darm thing in the car, based on the diagram J posted suppose to be on the center-left side of the dashboard (or at least that’s what I can see in the diagram).
Anybody knows exactly where the module is and how to get to it?
Also I need the full electrical diagram of the PassKeyIII circuit witch I assume incorporates the VCM as a central module. Is not like I am planing to get into the “free to me Cadillac business” I am just trying to get this darm NAV unit working.

N*Caddy
12-20-09, 05:23 PM
Good news, the NAV unit works just fine!
The bad news it was not in my car, it was eyekandyboats '01 Deville, I just made him the harness (he bought a NAV unit for his car) and since I was there I just tried my unit for the second time. Same conclusion the unit works but not in my car. I got to study the eSI closer to see what I need to put in my car to get it working.
Also looking for somebody with a '99 and up Eldorado witch happens to have a Denso NAV unit for spare to do a small test for me. Chime in if you can help me on this!

N*Caddy
02-21-10, 01:17 PM
I GOT IT WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yup:
Exclusive picture with a WORKING NAV unit outside the car (in fact).

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4904/workingqo.jpg

In the picture you are watching the NAV unit working on bench test.
All I need to do now is get all this stuff into the car and connect it to the data bus.
2 years…but is finally working!
Now the problem is will the RIM be compatible, do I need to change it (along with the speakers again)?

IS WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:
Not yet in the car but is close enogh. :thumbsup:

Go to minute 2:20 here
1gjxnxKmaVQ

mtflight
02-21-10, 04:57 PM
All I need to do now is get all this stuff into the car and connect it to the data bus.


Now the problem is will the RIM be compatible, do I need to change it (along with the speakers again)?


Just an educated guess regarding the RIM: I'm thinking since the're Cadillacs with Nav with or without BOSE it will probably work! So is one of those units the VCIM? It'd be cool if it was programmed to receive voice commands, but probably another nightmare in it of itself. Such programming requires the Tech II, letting it know NAV is installed (and thus the voice command subroutine is enabled). The issue would be getting someone to figure out how to tell it what car it's in etc, plus labor.

So where will you place these items?

N*Caddy
02-21-10, 07:04 PM
Well I got the good news part earlier, now I tried it in the car and…
The 99’ Eldorado RIM is NOT compatible, I need to change with an ’98 and up AMP (I don’t call it RIM cause people will jump on my back). :shhh:
Now if I change the RIM…either I keep just the sound processing part of the ’98 and up AMP and disable the actual amplifier so I keep the speakers (the ones with individual amplifiers)…kind of hard to do due to the darm SUB (but not impossible).
The other solution is to change the whole audio system (again) speakers included with ’98 and up BOSE.
There is a half a** solution, don’t bother with the AMP disable part just lower the output level (a waste of amplifier) and keep the current speakers (eventually add the SUB – the yaw sensor is in the way but is not a big thing to deal with by no means). Now than I am thinking…I rather disable the amplifier to begin with.
Having the audio part fixed…with little effort I can get the steering wheel controls working too (just a matter of harness) and have the NAV unit in the car (maybe after 2-3 days of work). There is ONE compromise…I do not get the driver 1 and driver 2 settings. Also the clock will be GPS base (fine by me, is atomic watch precision any way), but not from PCM.
The driver1 and driver2 is a quite large compromise for me (although I never use driver2 settings is just something that bothers me knowing is not working).
To overcome this…well involves TechII, I need to solve some communication problems with the RSS module (U1056), the lack of side airbags (expected to be seen on the bus)…basically I would have to completely revamp the electrical system in the car…extensive work to say the least (not impossible though).
Probably I would get it going first with the Driver1/Driver2 compromise and deal with it as the time will allow me, I need to see the NAV unit in the car, unfortunately this will have to wait 2 months.
At least at this moment I know everything I need to do witch is a big achievement.
Also good news for the ’92 and up Cadillac owners I can mount the Denso NAV in ANY Cadillac (including OBDI cars, yes there is no typo, OBDI will work too, BOSE/non-BOSE regardless any way the whole system gets replaced and yes steering wheel controls can be added too as long as the steering wheel is replaced with the one with buttons). :cool2:
Now I am in a market for a ’98 and up amplifier…Jake! :bouncy:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7346/52676804.jpg

One of the last pictures of the car w/o OEM NAV (in the back is a ’94 STS not related).

97EldoCoupe
02-21-10, 09:39 PM
Congratulations Vasi!!!! :thumbsup: :D

Now I know what I want in my '97 ETC ---- lol

Vasi - anything you need, it's yours! Would that amp that you brought back to me, work in any way? I have more if that doesn't do the job....

I'll send you an email regarding my guages in a minute:

eyekandyboats.inc
02-21-10, 11:04 PM
this is fantastic news!.
see if there is any more stuff you can pull out of the Deville that will work.. But its not BOSE unfortunately.
Vasi i want to talk with you about a second head unit integration into my deville ( rear seats )

eyekandyboats.inc
02-21-10, 11:10 PM
Vasi. ODB 1 computer! that gets me excited. because come summer i am going to try to find a low mileage mint 1994 eldorado.... with you help i would like to put nav in it... if i can find another one for roughly 300 bucks! :)

N*Caddy
02-22-10, 07:42 PM
No problem! :D

vincentm
10-05-11, 11:37 AM
Good thread, i'm thinking of doing this also, but i suck at electronics ( an IT guy sucking at this, i know ), so a few questions.

1.)What exact Nav HU do i need?
2.) what firmware and how do i obtain it?
3.) I have BOSE in my car, i just need to replace my driver door speaker assembly as it recently went up in smoke (literally), and get some OEM 6x9's.
4.) Thinking of going back down to 1 10" Kicker suck with Amp. Can this be added
5.)I have the connection for the disc Changer in the trunk, how will this play into such a project?

Also i need to replace my Power antenna, which i'll do soon.

mtflight
10-05-11, 02:54 PM
Hey Vince,

You're in luck that I just went through this procedure! See post here http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-audio-video-security-systems/242008-how-upgrade-nav-head-unit-keeping.html
BTW a sincere thanks to N*Caddy for verifying my connections were accurate and being available to answer my constant flux of questions. Vasi, you're the best. Invaluable. Electronics MVP on the forum award goes to you. :)

vincentm
10-05-11, 03:18 PM
Hey Vince,

You're in luck that I just went through this procedure! To recap, you want a nav system, and you want to add an amp to it with a subwoofer. It is simple to do but takes a little bit of work. you should be fine doing it.

Yup, currently im running two 10" Kickers in a sealed box with an Orion cobalt5001 Amp, my 6x9's are Pioneer 4 ways, still connected to the factory amps. My door speaker(s) were/are sony 3 ways (my drive door amp died and there's no speaker in their currently). So im thinking of just going back to Bose for door and 6x9's slap in a DVD/nav, add aux, and keep just one of the 10" Kickers with the amp.

mtflight
10-05-11, 03:44 PM
my 6x9's are Pioneer 4 ways, still connected to the factory amps. My door speaker(s) were/are sony 3 ways (my drive door amp died and there's no speaker in their currently). So im thinking of just going back to Bose for door and 6x9's slap in a DVD/nav, add aux, and keep just one of the 10" Kickers with the amp.

Hey how does the resistance differential affect audio going from a 4/8 Ohm speaker to the BOSE's lower Ohm rating? Maybe that is the reason it went up in smoke? BTW sorry I posted a half-baked message... when I clicked "Go Advanced" I must've posted it... so I went back and edited in advanced mode. I'll snap some pics of the finished dash in a few...

vincentm
10-05-11, 06:58 PM
Thanks alot, i'll go over these once i get a chance, and big thanks for N*Caddy, he needs a Nobel Prize for Cadillac electronics research and his breakthroughs lol

N*Caddy
12-30-12, 09:07 PM
Well I think I finally crack-it and I have the video to prove it.
I got the NAV HU working ON THE DATA line with my '97 STS.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7FVV4tRD48

Yes is correct I am actually controlling the volume of my RIM ('99 Eldorado) using the NAV unit connected to the data line. Also you see on top the DIM ('99 STS) that allow me to run the NAV unit.
The song you hear (The Cardigans - Erase and rewind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erase/Rewind)) is played by the car's BOSE regular HU ('99 Eldorado). Actually is more complicated than that, is a disk in the 12 Disk CD changer controlled by the BOSE regular HU, but that's just a detail, important I am controlling the volume control of whatever sound is in the RIM (obviously works with the In-Dash CD player or the Radio). So again the NAV unit does not produce the sound (as I didn't connect the audio lines); the NAV unit is only connected to the data line and controls the RIM volume level (and other audio settings). I can also control the DSP and the balance/fade. Basically I can control every audio function the RIM knows. The NAV unit designed to work with the new AMP also knows AVC and EQ, but the buttons are disabled while connected to the RIM (as the are not supported).
The next video is the test of the steering wheel controls. I am testing the SELECT button in RADIO mode, note how the radio channels change as I am using the steering wheel button. Note you can also control the volume from steering wheel but that's in the RIM not in the HU (is kind of not easy to understand unless you understand the audio system).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbxcs3amPEc

And the next video demonstrates how the memory functions work too (note I am selecting from the door buttons driver 1 or driver 2 and the NAV unit responds accordingly - as seen on the botton left corner of the screen).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9RbSslqHvQ&feature=youtu.be

There are some rather big changes to be done, I need to replace the PZM with the DIM + RIM (Rear Integration Module) combo. Actually I already have the RIM in for the URPAS chimes so I may as well migrate the other inputs/outputs from PZM.
When the weather gets better I will continue with the project...