: Leasing/Financing a new V. Tony comments please.



Kadonny
12-11-08, 09:32 AM
A question for all those who have picked up or ordered your new V. Are you financing it? If so, what way?

I was at my dealer yesterday and they told me there is not a single bank to get a lease from. Nothing, zilch. The only way to get into a new V is to pay cash or buy and finance.

Now for those of us that use the car as a business write off, leasing is the way to go. Has GM/Caddy just killed my opportunity to drive a new V?

So what are my options? Seems like a buy or nothing.

Tony if you read this, I heard that it is possible GM will start up a leasing program in January for just the CTS and the Malibu and maybe a few other select GM cars that they can get a solid residual on. Truth? I was also told that any customer currently in a GM lease that rolls into a buy will get a 5k price reduction, program ends in January. Truth to that?

I have to figure out a way to get into this car that makes sense for me. Thanks!

Razorecko
12-11-08, 10:02 AM
^ I agree completely. I would also lease under a business name. I was told by my dealer that by the time my 6spd manual would come in they would have a leasing program enacted ( around jan/feb )...Otherwise its not worth it to me to pay out of pocket and i'll have to go lease a c63 or maybe even a GTR if nissan every gets their lease program crap togethor.

Cub Cadet
12-11-08, 10:17 AM
The V I am looking at was quoted to me as a buy, or a lease @ 15,000 miles per yer. This was $3500 down, $919/mos, and $30,600 buyout at the end of the lease. What a joke. I could buy the car and and finance it for cheaper. If I got 0% financing, I would save close to $12,000!!

Razorecko
12-11-08, 10:53 AM
The V I am looking at was quoted to me as a buy, or a lease @ 15,000 miles per yer. This was $3500 down, $919/mos, and $30,600 buyout at the end of the lease. What a joke. I could buy the car and and finance it for cheaper. If I got 0% financing, I would save close to $12,000!!

^ ouch. For my mothers ml63 all she would have to pay was the difference between payments and msrp to own the vehicle.

Krug Ford
12-11-08, 11:06 AM
US Bank is the only one doing leasing right now. However they are not leasing the CTS-V as of yet...

Hopefully soon...

Cadillac Tony
12-11-08, 11:20 AM
I was at my dealer yesterday and they told me there is not a single bank to get a lease from. Nothing, zilch.

No Kadonny, that isn't true. There are several banks and lenders that will write leases on cars right now, but the money factors are a LOT higher than we used to see with the special GMAC rates (instead of 5.9, they're more like 15.9). Leasing has changed quite a bit in the last few months- it's no longer a way to drive the car for half of what it actually depreciates during the lease, as GM was losing $10k a car to run those programs. The lease that Cub Cadet was quoted really isn't that ridiculous if you add it up.

$919 x 36 = $33,084 (including sales tax), or $31,211.32 (without tax)

Residual price of $30,600 + 31,211.32 + $3,500 down = $65,311.

That's right about the MSRP on the car, which is what people are paying for them. I understand that we're all accustomed to some ridiculously low payment as part of a lease (myself included), but as long as it adds up to MSRP (which this does) it's a perfectly realistic price. It doesn't benefit anyone to lose money just to put a car on the road- we all now see where that leads in the long run. A $919 payment really isn't that bad for a $65,000 car, guys. Let be real here.

The only incentive to speak of on the CTS-V is the $2,000 bonus cash for most ZIP codes. There is a $4,000 "lease to purchase" incentive on the V6 CTS, but not the V. It's for people who have a lease that is scheduled to end before June 30th, 2009, and the lease does not have to be returned now- you just have to provide proof you have it. The program ends January 5th.

GM has always been pretty tight lipped about what's coming in the future, especially these days. I don't know of any plans for a CTS/Malibu lease in January, but I wouldn't be surprised to sse it (especially with Edmunds just voting the CTS as having the best projected resale in its class).

If I hear anything, you know I'll post it here.

Razorecko
12-11-08, 11:30 AM
^ you're right that adds up to be the appropriate amount ( msrp ). Business wise its always smart to lease. Especially if you can get very high monthly payments.

Kadonny
12-11-08, 11:58 AM
No Kadonny, that isn't true. There are several banks and lenders that will write leases on cars right now, but the money factors are a LOT higher than we used to see with the special GMAC rates (instead of 5.9, they're more like 15.9). Leasing has changed quite a bit in the last few months- it's no longer a way to drive the car for half of what it actually depreciates during the lease, as GM was losing $10k a car to run those programs. The lease that Cub Cadet was quoted really isn't that ridiculous if you add it up.

$919 x 36 = $33,084 (including sales tax), or $31,211.32 (without tax)

Residual price of $30,600 + 31,211.32 + $3,500 down = $65,311.

That's right about the MSRP on the car, which is what people are paying for them. I understand that we're all accustomed to some ridiculously low payment as part of a lease (myself included), but as long as it adds up to MSRP (which this does) it's a perfectly realistic price. It doesn't benefit anyone to lose money just to put a car on the road- we all now see where that leads in the long run. A $919 payment really isn't that bad for a $65,000 car, guys. Let be real here.

The only incentive to speak of on the CTS-V is the $2,000 bonus cash for most ZIP codes. There is a $4,000 "lease to purchase" incentive on the V6 CTS, but not the V. It's for people who have a lease that is scheduled to end before June 30th, 2009, and the lease does not have to be returned now- you just have to provide proof you have it. The program ends January 5th.

GM has always been pretty tight lipped about what's coming in the future, especially these days. I don't know of any plans for a CTS/Malibu lease in January, but I wouldn't be surprised to sse it (especially with Edmunds just voting the CTS as having the best projected resale in its class).

If I hear anything, you know I'll post it here.

Thanks Tony. I'm a financial guy, so I do understand leasing and all the ramifiactions with it. I'm not asking for a ridiculously low payment, I just want someone to lease me the car for 3 years at $1000 to $ 1200 a month, that's all. It saves me so much more money leasing and the write off rather than dealing with the luxury auto depreciation limits. It just sounds like I can't even get that.

On the lease to purchase incentive, maybe the dealer was mis-informed, but they told me I could have used the 4k.

Anyway, I guess I'll see how it works out, but the bottom line is someone needs to be able to lease this car at a fair price.....that's all I ask.

Thanks for your info, much appreciated.

Cadillac Tony
12-11-08, 12:01 PM
Judging by what Cub Cadet was quoted, the lease you're looking for is out there. First payment + fees up front (say roughly $2,500) should put you right at $1,000 per month.

Git 'er done- you've got my number. :D

atdeneve
12-11-08, 12:03 PM
Yeah, I was wondering how 3,500 down, 919/month, with 30,600 buyout was a joke. Seemed right on the money for a 36 month lease.

Thought, maybe, he was talking about a 48 month lease, which would yield a total cost of $78,212. Not sure if there are different options for length of lease period, but that would at least make his statement about the $12,000 savings with 0% financing make more sense.

And why are high monthly payments preferable?

Cadillac Tony
12-11-08, 12:11 PM
Probably the write-off. :D

If he meant 48 months, I still don't think it's crazy. Remember that he said 15,000 per year, so that means he'll be returning the car out of warranty (60,000 miles). A $65,000 car would be around $70,000 "drive out", so once you figure the rate that you pay for them holding the other $30,000 in limbo, plus the taxes, depreciation and using up the entire warranty, I think a 48/60 lease should work out to more than that (a $70,000 loan for 60 months @ 5.9 would be $1,400 per month).

But that's just me.

Cub Cadet
12-11-08, 01:23 PM
I was talking about 36mos lease with those figures. Why in the world would I do that when I can get my GM employee discount and a $2,000 rebate to get a well optioned car (no Recaro's) at $54,000? To me, leasing makes no sense here and buying would save close to $200/mos and I would own the car.
Here is the car in question - 6sp black on black with navigation.

http://image7.autorevo.com/2026/pics/561243_a1616d53-cc7b-475c-af34-16f857abf87a.jpg

http://image7.autorevo.com/2026/pics/561243_c549fb7c-4ee0-4f4f-9f7d-68aec4997067.jpg

http://image7.autorevo.com/2026/pics/561243_8a2d3f82-fb77-4fea-a938-f36f402abf75.jpg

http://image7.autorevo.com/2026/pics/561243_4b633772-0f88-4adc-b929-9b684fd26a05.jpg

http://image7.autorevo.com/2026/pics/561243_9208131a-f8b2-4a81-8eb2-df0137f38089.jpg

http://image7.autorevo.com/2026/pics/561243_71644936-61e4-44c6-bc40-28178d2b6cd0.jpg

Cadillac Tony
12-11-08, 01:28 PM
Well, if you can get the car at GMS then the cap cost on the lease should also be figured at GMS. If the buy payment is that much lower than the lease (and you can't write off the lease) then it sounds to me like you should buy it.

erp2863
12-11-08, 01:46 PM
You might want to take a look at leasecompare.com. They work with a number of banks.

Also, could someone explain how leasing really saves you any money as a business expense? I've run the numbers and it never really comes out that rosey. Hasn't the Sec. 179 code been changed recently? Or was this only with purchasing large SUVs?

Razorecko
12-11-08, 02:43 PM
You might want to take a look at leasecompare.com. They work with a number of banks.

Also, could someone explain how leasing really saves you any money as a business expense? I've run the numbers and it never really comes out that rosey. Hasn't the Sec. 179 code been changed recently? Or was this only with purchasing large SUVs?

I think it depends alot on how much your business is making gross yearly in the term of how much "lease" you can write off. I know with my business my family can write off the entire amount of our monthly lease for each vehicle.

Kadonny
12-11-08, 03:11 PM
You might want to take a look at leasecompare.com. They work with a number of banks.

Also, could someone explain how leasing really saves you any money as a business expense? I've run the numbers and it never really comes out that rosey. Hasn't the Sec. 179 code been changed recently? Or was this only with purchasing large SUVs?

Section 179 does not apply to luxury autos, it only applies to large trucks in excess of 6000 lbs I believe.

So under a lease, you in essence write off 100% of your lease payment. Let's say this is $1000/month, you write off $12,000 a year. Under the depreciation limitations you get to write off only $2560 (for the first year). Thats $10k a year difference times the tax rate. Assume a tax rate of 32%. That's a $3200 difference per year. I know I am missing a few things, including the interest write off on the loan, but you get the point I'm making.

CadV
12-11-08, 03:36 PM
Tony you sure US West is not doing leases on CTS-V's? I have a lease deal already worked with a dealership here and it is through US West.

Cadillac Tony
12-11-08, 03:47 PM
You must have misread what I posted.


No Kadonny, that isn't true. There are several banks and lenders that will write leases on cars right now.....

EricVonHa
12-11-08, 04:50 PM
I don't think we're going to see any new incentive programs whatsoever until the welfare program is fully sorted from the "bailout".

Anyone know of any dealers in Eastern, Pa, NJ or Delaware that are taking delivery ?

Kadonny
12-11-08, 06:34 PM
I don't think we're going to see any new incentive programs whatsoever until the welfare program is fully sorted from the "bailout".

Anyone know of any dealers in Eastern, Pa, NJ or Delaware that are taking delivery ?

General Sales in West Chester has a black one coming in that was sold but the deposit fell through. Contact them if you are interested, it should be on their lot any day now and it won't last once it's sitting there.

GM-4-LIFE
12-11-08, 06:52 PM
I was thinking of putting down at least $5K or more. Whatever necessary to get my lease payment as low as possible. I heard nobody is doing 24 month lease terms which is what I have been doing for awhile now. I am ok with a 36 month lease term. I think 48 or 60 months is way too long though.

I want to keep my lease payment where I have my STS-V payment now which is: $850.00 including tax.

Who knows. If I have to buy the CTS-V, so be it. I have never wanted a car this bad like the new CTS-V! GM/Cadillac did a phenomenal job!

SG

CTSV_510
12-11-08, 08:56 PM
General Sales in West Chester has a black one coming in that was sold but the deposit fell through. Contact them if you are interested, it should be on their lot any day now and it won't last once it's sitting there.

General Sales has the black one in now unless it sold in the last 4 days. I drove past there on Saturday and it was sitting out front. I didn't have time to stop and look, but I might have time tomorrow...

Kidhummer
12-11-08, 10:33 PM
With the economy the way it is and the BIG 3 in a BIG mess they should seriously be giving these cars away for free.

Luna.
12-11-08, 10:37 PM
With the economy the way it is and the BIG 3 in a BIG mess they should seriously be giving these cars away for free.

And how exactly is that supposed to help them return to profitability?? :hmm:

vmaniac
12-12-08, 12:28 AM
Leases are a joke. If you like the car buy it.

Razorecko
12-12-08, 12:40 AM
^ under certain business circumstances you would have to be stupid to buy a vehicle instead of leasing it.

Kadonny
12-12-08, 09:07 AM
Leases are a joke. If you like the car buy it.


Lol, did you read anything I posted above? Thought not.

Kidhummer
12-12-08, 04:36 PM
And how exactly is that supposed to help them return to profitability?? :hmm:

i didnt mean they should literally give it away for free but they should run a program that would interest the general public in leasing and buying. They should run GMS employee pricing for everyone because they will still make a profit and move a lot more cars at a faster pace.

1fstkde
12-13-08, 12:48 AM
I was thinking of putting down at least $5K or more. Whatever necessary to get my lease payment as low as possible. I heard nobody is doing 24 month lease terms which is what I have been doing for awhile now. I am ok with a 36 month lease term. I think 48 or 60 months is way too long though.

I want to keep my lease payment where I have my STS-V payment now which is: $850.00 including tax.

Who knows. If I have to buy the CTS-V, so be it. I have never wanted a car this bad like the new CTS-V! GM/Cadillac did a phenomenal job!

SG i leased my 05 ctsv for $520, leased my 07 stsv for $820, 05 s500 for $1000 both 24 months leases and 2k down,...SORRY but im sure not paying $900 to lease the new ctsv...leases are great but not this one..hope things change before april 09 or i might just have to change from cadillac :rant2::helpless:....

IRONDOG
12-13-08, 08:39 PM
I've been leasing for more than 15 years. Leases are really bad now. It is a disappointment!

GM-4-LIFE
12-13-08, 11:22 PM
Leases are really bad now. It is a disappointment!

I agree 100%. ALL automakers, NOT only GM is trying to force people to buy instead of lease vehicles.

All leases are terrible right now. It is NOT worth wasting the money on a lease which is basically renting a car($1000.00 or more per month) when I can pay $700.00 or $800.00 per month and end up buying/owning an awesome car like the CTS-V.

With GM going the way they are, I highly doubt the V-Series cars will be around for many more years, so I would rather snatch one up while I can instead of leasing now and wondering whether a new lease is attainable when the lease is up. I have leased GM vehicles the last 5 or so years and I will just breakdown and buy the 2009 CTS-V and enjoy it while I own it.

GM's cost in developing a car like the CTS-V is high and I don't think they will do another low volume high cost car for awhile. It just won't be worth it in terms of net profit and right now they need every penny they can get!

SG

darjae
12-14-08, 01:15 AM
At some point, we have to realize that the lease deals of yore are gone. It's one of the reasons that the Big 3 are in so much trouble. They set the residual value way too optimistically and got stuck with cars that were worth 75% or less of the assumed value after depreciation. And everyone just moved on to the next underpriced lease and left them trying to sell the lease returns. If anything, in the next 5 years, leases will cost too much until they figure out the point at which they can actually make money on them (and that we will accept them).

randian
12-14-08, 07:57 AM
So under a lease, you in essence write off 100% of your lease payment. Let's say this is $1000/month, you write off $12,000 a year. Under the depreciation limitations you get to write off only $2560 (for the first year). Thats $10k a year difference times the tax rate. Assume a tax rate of 32%. That's a $3200 difference per year. I know I am missing a few things, including the interest write off on the loan, but you get the point I'm making.
You can't write off the entire lease payment of a "luxury" auto. If your company leases a "luxury" auto, it will wind up with a special add-back to income (called the lease inclusion amount) that varies with the value of the car and the year of the lease. I recommend you read IRS Pub 463 which explains "lease inclusion amount" in section 4.

Kmajecki
12-14-08, 08:36 AM
Some prelim lease #'s i was given sans credit check:

$1,300/mo for 36 months 0% down
$1,000/mo for 60 months 0% down

**Prices are approx, +/- $50/mo from dealers est**

That's pretty high, and no way i'd lease for 60months, prob only like 10k miles/year! Wonder how much down to get to $1,000/mo for 36 months.

Salesman's face was priceless when i told him about the plant shutdown. "Where'd you hear that?!" then he quickly went to his pc...

I need to show restraint and just pick up a used 09 anyway and use the $$ saved for any mods that come out over the next year :(

IRONDOG
12-14-08, 09:41 PM
[QUOTE=AERO1;1708901]I agree 100%. ALL automakers, NOT only GM is trying to force people to buy instead of lease vehicles.

All leases are terrible right now. It is NOT worth wasting the money on a lease which is basically renting a car($1000.00 or more per month) when I can pay $700.00 or $800.00 per month and end up buying/owning an awesome car like the CTS-V.

Hey AERO1, what are the specifics regarding buying the CTS-V2 for $700 or 800 per month. I'm unaware of a deal that low?

CadV
12-14-08, 11:04 PM
[quote=AERO1;1708901]I agree 100%. ALL automakers, NOT only GM is trying to force people to buy instead of lease vehicles.

All leases are terrible right now. It is NOT worth wasting the money on a lease which is basically renting a car($1000.00 or more per month) when I can pay $700.00 or $800.00 per month and end up buying/owning an awesome car like the CTS-V.

Hey AERO1, what are the specifics regarding buying the CTS-V2 for $700 or 800 per month. I'm unaware of a deal that low?

That deal is in his imagination hehe

1fstkde
12-15-08, 01:39 AM
Some prelim lease #'s i was given sans credit check:

$1,300/mo for 36 months 0% down
$1,000/mo for 60 months 0% down

**Prices are approx, +/- $50/mo from dealers est**

That's pretty high, and no way i'd lease for 60months, prob only like 10k miles/year! Wonder how much down to get to $1,000/mo for 36 months.

Salesman's face was priceless when i told him about the plant shutdown. "Where'd you hear that?!" then he quickly went to his pc...

I need to show restraint and just pick up a used 09 anyway and use the $$ saved for any mods that come out over the next year :($1000 a month for 60 months...60k and you dont own the car????:emocide::wtf:

Kadonny
12-15-08, 09:57 AM
You can't write off the entire lease payment of a "luxury" auto. If your company leases a "luxury" auto, it will wind up with a special add-back to income (called the lease inclusion amount) that varies with the value of the car and the year of the lease. I recommend you read IRS Pub 463 which explains "lease inclusion amount" in section 4.

I know about the lease inclusion amounts and they are really not significant in the overall scheme of the car write off.

IRONDOG
01-11-09, 12:03 PM
US Bank is the only one doing leasing right now. However they are not leasing the CTS-V as of yet...

Hopefully soon...

Scott, is there anything happening with leasing a CTS-V now?

Razorecko
01-11-09, 08:59 PM
I know about the lease inclusion amounts and they are really not significant in the overall scheme of the car write off.

agreed.

GNSCOTT
01-11-09, 09:18 PM
so where can I lease any $67k car for $700 per month?

1fstkde
01-11-09, 10:50 PM
so where can I lease any $67k car for $700 per month?
well i used to lease the 05 ctsv 55k car for $520..my stsv 80k sticker for $820...both 24 month lease..2k down..its all about the incentives,,

vperl
01-13-09, 03:44 AM
Has anyone heard about the brand new deal GM announced since Jan 8th '09

All I know is that there is Credit Union/GM Supplier Pricing some how I can bet the V is excluded