: Anyone here an attorney - re: Head gasket failures?



dukester
12-09-08, 01:35 PM
With the alarming and high rate of head gasket failures, why has there not been a class action suite?


Clearly, these northstars with blown head gaskets come under the lemon law - these are catastrophic costly failures . . .
:hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm:

dkozloski
12-09-08, 02:09 PM
How do you know and prove that the failure rate is high? Is it higher than other makes? Everything ever brought forward on this forum is anecdotal. Do you have solid facts or just a lot of barstool speculation?

AJxtcman
12-09-08, 02:16 PM
With the alarming and high rate of head gasket failures, why has there not been a class action suite?


Clearly, these northstars with blown head gaskets come under the lemon law - these are catastrophic costly failures . . .
:hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm:

You are talking about a car that is 10 years old or older. WTF are you thinking about?

How long should it last?

The Tony Show
12-09-08, 02:26 PM
Legally, the engine could fall out of the bottom of the car in a million pieces after the warranty runs out they wouldn't be liable. That's why there's a stated warranty term.

urbanski
12-09-08, 02:48 PM
:horse:

dukester
12-09-08, 03:10 PM
These polls provide solid evidence of the HG problems:


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/122898-northstar-headgasket-bolt-failure-please-let.html

Cadillac Forums: Northstar Headgasket/Bolt Failure? Please let us know
View Poll Results: Select one if you have had a problem with the headgasket the Northstar V8:
1993 6 2.73%
1994 18 8.18%
1995 3 1.36%
1996 17 7.73%
1997 50 22.73%
1998 48 21.82%
1999 52 23.64%
2000 13 5.91%
2001 9 4.09%
2002 6 2.73%
2003 2 0.91%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 220.

Many of the blown HG were shortly after warranty - forget about how many years before a NS blew a HG, look at the miles, many below 80K.

I am not aware of any other $40K vehicle that has had these problems.

In fact Cadillac knew they had these problems in 1997 in MFG, that's way they brought in Bar's into the plant to try to fix the HG leaks, before these NS went to the dealership.

Cadillac ordered the dealers to install the Bar's tablets in the rad hose to try to put a band-aid on the problem.

dkozloski
12-09-08, 04:14 PM
These polls provide solid evidence of the HG problems:


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/122898-northstar-headgasket-bolt-failure-please-let.html

Cadillac Forums: Northstar Headgasket/Bolt Failure? Please let us know
View Poll Results: Select one if you have had a problem with the headgasket the Northstar V8:
1993 6 2.73%
1994 18 8.18%
1995 3 1.36%
1996 17 7.73%
1997 50 22.73%
1998 48 21.82%
1999 52 23.64%
2000 13 5.91%
2001 9 4.09%
2002 6 2.73%
2003 2 0.91%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 220.

Many of the blown HG were shortly after warranty - forget about how many years before a NS blew a HG, look at the miles, many below 80K.

I am not aware of any other $40K vehicle that has had these problems.

In fact Cadillac knew they had these problems in 1997 in MFG, that's way they brought in Bar's into the plant to try to fix the HG leaks, before these NS went to the dealership.

Cadillac ordered the dealers to install the Bar's tablets in the rad hose to try to put a band-aid on the problem.
There is no connection between the Bar's tablets and head gaskets. The Bar's tabs were meant to address minor casting porosity and seepage.
Before you make an even bigger fool of yourself, you might try to get your facts straight. We've heard all this stuff before a dozen times.
About the only guy on this forum that might listen to you is Destroyer. He's out there on the lunatic fringe too.

urbanski
12-09-08, 04:51 PM
its funny because you think the poll is scientific

97EldoCoupe
12-09-08, 04:54 PM
AJxtcman is right. Head gasket failure on a 8,9,or 10 year+ old car? If you get it fixed and it lasts another 8,9,or 10 years, there's not really that much to complain about, unless you just bought the car from someone who knew the HGs were bad.

zonie77
12-09-08, 05:23 PM
:horse:

I was a pro mechanic 40 years ago. It was common to do valve job/head gasket at 30-40K. Now the HG's last over 100K and the valves usually are good.

The problem is the high cost because it is a OHC V8 in FWD configuration. Therefore it is hard to work on and costs more to fix.

:horse::horse:

Submariner409
12-09-08, 05:28 PM
"Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away................."

:alchi::horse::topicsucks:

Ranger
12-09-08, 06:16 PM
That "poll" would not go very far in a court of law as Urby implied.

Destroyer
12-09-08, 11:05 PM
AJxtcman is right. Head gasket failure on a 8,9,or 10 year+ old car? If you get it fixed and it lasts another 8,9,or 10 years, there's not really that much to complain about, unless you just bought the car from someone who knew the HGs were bad.
You more than anyone knows it's not really a head gasket issue right?. What need would there be for your stud kit if it was? Heads pulling out of the block, now that's another story right?.................

AJxtcman
12-09-08, 11:25 PM
This is reality!

I need to make a living
I repair Cadillac's
Cadillac's must break! :yawn:
If Cadillac repairs were cheap it would be a Chevy.


WTF We are talking about a high end car with high end repairs. I don't see anything wrong with that.
I think rear knuckles run about $2k and all of them fail.
Tires wear out also.

Destroyer
12-10-08, 07:43 PM
This is reality!

I need to make a living
I repair Cadillac's
Cadillac's must break! :yawn:





Which explains why you want to make them faster. You are just trying to expedite the rate of failure so you can cash out. Try and create parts to make them faster (money up front) then watch them blow up and fix 'em (money in the back end). Absolutely BRILLIANT!:highfive:

Raze
12-11-08, 04:20 PM
You more than anyone knows it's not really a head gasket issue right?. What need would there be for your stud kit if it was? Heads pulling out of the block, now that's another story right?.................


I'm in this boat exactly, my HGs did not 'fail'. I lifted the head off the block due to the following facts:

1) My car was 7+ years old at the time and had close to 100k miles on the clock.

2) The steel head bolts have a very small pitch depth compared to the load they need to cary and the aluminum block they are tapped into thus allowing fatigue over the lifecycle of the engines to the point where the threads would fail and the heads would lift.

I'm not mad, it was expensive and annoying to fix, since the fix I'm at 30k more trouble free miles from the engine at least.

HGs failure is anything from blown out headgasket, to rusting out headgasket, to lifted head, to on and on, which can be due to a NUMBER of non-factory related issues such as poor maintenance, extreme heat cycling, etc...

ryannel2003
12-11-08, 04:52 PM
The biggest issue with this whole thing is the amount of people who DO NOT change their coolant on time. Dex-Cool has a life of 5 years/150k miles. So if you go over that, you're only asking for problems.

While I will agree in saying the cars have a design problem, if the coolant is changed on time it should help your case. Some people have kept up on coolant changes and it still doesn't help. In that case, yeah, GM should do something about it. If you don't keep up on maintenance on the car, it shouldn't be GM's problem.

Destroyer
12-11-08, 10:32 PM
The biggest issue with this whole thing is the amount of people who DO NOT change their coolant on time. Dex-Cool has a life of 5 years/150k miles. So if you go over that, you're only asking for problems.

While I will agree in saying the cars have a design problem, if the coolant is changed on time it should help your case. Some people have kept up on coolant changes and it still doesn't help. In that case, yeah, GM should do something about it. If you don't keep up on maintenance on the car, it shouldn't be GM's problem.Technically speaking, nobody will ever know if frequent coolant changes really helps anything. A guy that has a his gaskets blow and didn't keep up with the coolant changes may smack his forehead as say "gee if I had only changed the coolant" while another guy that did change it religiously says "wtf, I changed that damn coolant 4 times this year". I don't really see how coolant can lift the heads off the block either way.

ryannel2003
12-11-08, 11:44 PM
True, but you know that's what GM defense would be if any lawsuit were to come up. The spectrum is to broad, unfortunately.

STSj90
12-12-08, 03:02 AM
This thread is pointless....:yawn:

And it makes me laugh:histeric:

dkozloski
12-12-08, 02:40 PM
Go ahead and sue GM if you want but by the time you get into court with them there'll be absolutely nothing left to collect.

Lebowski
12-12-08, 06:56 PM
The Northstar engine is a piece of shit. You would have thought that GM would have learned their lesson with the Vega and given up on the aluminum engine. No wonder they're going bankrupt. My two antique cars are MUCH more dependable and better built than my $53K STS, and when new together they cost less than 1/10 the price. No more late model Cadillacs for me.....:tisk::tisk::tisk:

dkozloski
12-12-08, 07:00 PM
The Northstar engine is a piece of shit. You would have thought that GM would have learned their lesson with the Vega and given up on the aluminum engine. No wonder they're going bankrupt. My two antique cars are MUCH more dependable and better built than my $53K STS, and when new together they cost less than 1/10 the price. No more late model Cadillacs for me.....:tisk::tisk::tisk:
You can always tell a POS Studebaker owner but you can't tell them much.

urbanski
12-12-08, 07:17 PM
haha

Brett
12-12-08, 07:29 PM
My advice to the OP would be to interview several class action attorneys and see if they would be interested in taking on your case. I find it unlikely, but you never know.

Lebowski
12-12-08, 07:50 PM
You can always tell a POS Studebaker owner but you can't tell them much.

Spoken by a true Pollock....:)

Koooop
12-12-08, 08:22 PM
The Northstar engine is a piece of shit. You would have thought that GM would have learned their lesson with the Vega and given up on the aluminum engine. No wonder they're going bankrupt. My two antique cars are MUCH more dependable and better built than my $53K STS, and when new together they cost less than 1/10 the price. No more late model Cadillacs for me.....:tisk::tisk::tisk:

DUDE!

A 1999 STS is a $1,500 car not $53,000.

(But I won't tell anyone else :shhh:)

Destroyer
12-12-08, 11:41 PM
True, but you know that's what GM defense would be if any lawsuit were to come up. The spectrum is to broad, unfortunately.It couldn't be. Dexcool was used in every GM car those years and only a certain few are known to blow up like this. Far as I know, the "head lifting" thing is a N* only trait but GM had several other "crappy" motors too. My GMC and Chevy convesion vans ('96 and '99) used Dex and they were VERY reliable and I NEVER changed the coolant on either. My '97 S10 truck with the 4.3 Vortec used Dex also and it ran beautifully even @ 130k miles and I didn't change coolant on that either. I'm not much of a maintenance man on my cars. When they break they get fixed, sold or junked depending on the worth of the car relative to the price of repair.

Submariner409
12-12-08, 11:48 PM
:sneaky:.............The tallest Pollack in the world is Stashu Liberty.

Rolex
12-13-08, 11:11 AM
:food-snacking:

Is it time for another HG thread already?

urbanski
12-13-08, 01:16 PM
:lock:

CIWS
12-14-08, 10:59 AM
Any product and it's manufacturing company is only as good as the life of the warranty. After that it's anybody's guess how long it will go before you are responsible to keep it going. These are not the cars of even 30 years ago in their "simplicity" and build. The more complex a device, the more the opportunity something will go wrong, and the more expensive it is to acquire relates to how expensive it's going to be to fix when it breaks. I personally haven't kept a new car longer than six years because it reaches a point to where holding on to it is no longer worth the cost of it's repairs or the overall value of the vehicle itself. Plus I want to get some level of retained value that still left when I trade or sell it.


Kinda like a wife. :D






:hide:

RightTurn
12-14-08, 11:50 AM
:rollingpin:

97EldoCoupe
12-14-08, 12:05 PM
The ONLY durability problem with the N* engine is the head gaskets and head bolts. If you take care of them, the bottom ends are near bullet proof, the valvetrain, chains, everything seems to last. The odd chain tensioner wears out or gives up but I've only seen 2-3 tensioners fail in about 50 engines, all around 10 years old.

The head gasket / head bolt problem is repairable, and after the repair, the engine is durable and reliable once again. Rather than criticize the construction and engineering of the N*, look at what these engines are capable of.

urbanski
12-14-08, 01:49 PM
Kinda like a wife.


:rollingpin:

classic++

dkozloski
12-14-08, 04:07 PM
After six years you're talking about financial residue in a used car. Anything that happens to it after that isn't worth losing sleep over. If your $3500 Cadillac crapping out is going to kill you financially you should have been driving a CiviC rather than trying to live a ghetto fabulous lifestyle. If you want to know what a six year old car is worth just take it to the bank and try to borrow money on it. The terms will not make you happy.

Lebowski
12-14-08, 07:40 PM
look at what these engines are capable of.

Mine is capable of making local trips of 5 miles or less before it starts overheating. That's not too impressive now is it....:tisk::tisk::tisk:

dkozloski
12-14-08, 07:49 PM
Mine is capable of making local trips of 5 miles or less before it starts overheating. That's not too impressive now is it....:tisk::tisk::tisk:
An old clunker car gives trouble. So what's new?

Lebowski
12-14-08, 07:57 PM
I expected more from an extremely clean, woman-owned, dealer-maintained 9 year old Cadillac when I bought it a year ago. I've only put 2K miles on it since I bought it (for $7500) and now I'm told it's only worth about $1000 unless I spend another $3500 to have the head gaskets replaced. Like I said before, the Northstar engine is a PIECE OF SHIT!!!:rant2::rant2::rant2:

dkozloski
12-14-08, 08:14 PM
I expected more from an extremely clean, woman-owned, dealer-maintained 9 year old Cadillac when I bought it a year ago. I've only put 2K miles on it since I bought it (for $7500) and now I'm told it's only worth about $1000 unless I spend another $3500 to have the head gaskets replaced. Like I said before, the Northstar engine is a PIECE OF SHIT!!!:rant2::rant2::rant2:
You exercised some bad judgement and are now looking for somebody else to blame. 9 year old cars are problematic and have only residual value. So what's new? Buying a used car is a crap shoot; sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Your NorthStar is a POS. That doesn't mean they all are. If it's so bad, why did you buy it? Could it be that you didn't do your research? An uninformed buyer can get burnt. So what's new.

You and Destroyer need to form a club where you can get together once in a while and cry on each others shoulders.

Koooop
12-14-08, 09:20 PM
I expected more from an extremely clean, woman-owned, dealer-maintained 9 year old Cadillac when I bought it a year ago. I've only put 2K miles on it since I bought it (for $7500) and now I'm told it's only worth about $1000 unless I spend another $3500 to have the head gaskets replaced. Like I said before, the Northstar engine is a PIECE OF SHIT!!!:rant2::rant2::rant2:

Your car is a POS, bummer, it's unfortunate that you didn't spring a few extra bux for a warranty or on having a mechanic look it over. So sell it and get something else, just take your lumps :thepan: like a man and stop crying about it. We've all been porked before.

I stand corrected, it's $1,000 POS.

dkozloski
12-14-08, 09:45 PM
I expected more from an extremely clean, woman-owned, dealer-maintained 9 year old Cadillac when I bought it a year ago. I've only put 2K miles on it since I bought it (for $7500) and now I'm told it's only worth about $1000 unless I spend another $3500 to have the head gaskets replaced. Like I said before, the Northstar engine is a PIECE OF SHIT!!!:rant2::rant2::rant2:
If you'd put all the energy you've put into pissing and moaning together with some tools you'd have it fixed by now and just be another happy driver on the road. Plus you'd have the self-satisfaction of a job well done and the respect of the other owners on the forum who have made their own repairs. You chose to take the approach of sitting on your ass and belly-aching and whining because the "system" won't bail you out of a mess of your own making. Too bad. So sad.

A few years ago this forum was full of threads started by owners who were Timeserting blocks and fixing their own cars. There was much comraderie and sharing of advice and experiences. Now it's all been overwhelmed by the noise from the bitchers. If you still want to fix it yourself we'll help you but if all you want to do is create a disturbance you aren't going to get much sympathy.

Destroyer
12-14-08, 09:51 PM
If it's so bad, why did you buy it? Could it be that you didn't do your research? An uninformed buyer can get burnt. So what's new.

What do you mean by that koz?. So if I get this, you are saying that adequate research would have led him to the information stating that the N* is a POS before he bought it vs. after?. Just so we understand each other, I'm not crying about mine. I could care less about it, I took a loss and I'm over that part. Simply sharing my experience and views about my N* and the absolutely countless amount that have posted in here with the same problem. Lebowski is entitled to state his opinion based on his experience and so am I. Unlike you and the other pro-N* people in here I wouldn't talk highly of them to someone inquiring purchasing one. When I was thinking of buying one I got the thumbs up and the green light from everyone and then I had to give the car away after it blew the H/G's. Keep it real man, even AJ or Jake (not sure about AJ) will tell you that it's not a matter of "if", only a matter of "when". Props again to Jake for making the H/G repair affordable.

Destroyer
12-14-08, 09:57 PM
I expected more from an extremely clean, woman-owned, dealer-maintained 9 year old Cadillac when I bought it a year ago. I've only put 2K miles on it since I bought it (for $7500) and now I'm told it's only worth about $1000 unless I spend another $3500 to have the head gaskets replaced. Like I said before, the Northstar engine is a PIECE OF SHIT!!!:rant2::rant2::rant2:
The cleanliness of the car or the age/sex of the previous owner does not matter with these cars. The H/G can go at any time and at any mileage with no regards as to how well taken care of it was. The H/G issue combined with the low book value and actual value of any N* car makes it a bad buy regardless of the price.

dkozloski
12-14-08, 10:08 PM
The cleanliness of the car or the age/sex of the previous owner does not matter with these cars. The H/G can go at any time and at any mileage with no regards as to how well taken care of it was. The H/G issue combined with the low book value and actual value of any N* car makes it a bad buy regardless of the price.
I am not neccessarily pro Northstar but I do extoll the fact that the fix is not impossible for the average bear that is willing to break a sweat and make his own repair. With the investment of a little sweat equity and a few bucks a guy can pick up a nice looking Cadillac with bad HGs and turn it into a nice ride worth far more than you have in it. Rather than a negative, bad HGs are an opportunity for an ambitious go-getter.

If I were back to being a young guy looking for a way to make a few quick bucks I'd be picking up every one of these things I could find and be fixing them in my spare time. Instead of having a yard full of flathead Fords with cracked blocks like I used to I'd have a yard full of Northstar Cadillacs with bad HGs.

Destroyer
12-14-08, 10:36 PM
I am not neccessarily pro Northstar but I do extoll the fact that the fix is not impossible for the average bear that is willing to break a sweat and make his own repair. With the investment of a little sweat equity and a few bucks a guy can pick up a nice looking Cadillac with bad HGs and turn it into a nice ride worth far more than you have in it. Rather than a negative, bad HGs are an opportunity for an ambitious go-getter.

If I were back to being a young guy looking for a way to make a few quick bucks I'd be picking up every one of these things I could find and be fixing them in my spare time. Instead of having a yard full of flathead Fords with cracked blocks like I used to I'd have a yard full of Northstar Cadillacs with bad HGs.You are on to something there. As a matter of fact I suggested the same thing to Jake (97Eldo). Just think about it, you buy these clean N* cars w/blown head gaskets for $1k or less and (if you are Jake) fix them for a few hundred bucks and BAM, there is money to be made!. I do NOT have that kind of time on my hands or the patience but for someone like Jake this would be a great idea. Keep in mind that in most states you need a dealer's license to do this in volume.

This doesn't apply to Lebowski, myself or most of the N* owners coming in here for advice regarding their "coolant and overheating" issues because we had much more than $1k or less invested in our cars.

Destroyer
12-14-08, 10:44 PM
I am not neccessarily pro Northstar but I do extoll the fact that the fix is not impossible for the average bear that is willing to break a sweat and make his own repair.Koz, don't over simplify this repair. It is a tedious job and sometimes results in disaster (putting all back together and STILL having the prob). I considered doing the repair (briefly) and believe I could have but it STILL would have been pretty costly when you take into account the special tools needed, the timeserts/Normserts or Jake studs plus all other necessary parts plus what is your time worth?. Not worth it IMO. Most guys can't do more than an oil change if that and now we are telling them to do a job that most experienced mechanics shy away from? I don't think so. Kinda takes the "luxury" feeling away doesn't it?

dkozloski
12-14-08, 11:36 PM
Koz, don't over simplify this repair. It is a tedious job and sometimes results in disaster (putting all back together and STILL having the prob). I considered doing the repair (briefly) and believe I could have but it STILL would have been pretty costly when you take into account the special tools needed, the timeserts/Normserts or Jake studs plus all other necessary parts plus what is your time worth?. Not worth it IMO. Most guys can't do more than an oil change if that and now we are telling them to do a job that most experienced mechanics shy away from? I don't think so. Kinda takes the "luxury" feeling away doesn't it?
I'll bet that over the years dozens of guys on the forum have fixed their own cars successfully with very few failures. I guess it all boils down to whether you believe in individual responsibility or you're looking for a scape goat or handout.

Lebowski
12-14-08, 11:46 PM
it's not a matter of "if", only a matter of "when".

I admit I didn't do my homework regarding the Northshit engine. I mistakenly assumed that the Cadillac was a high quality, well built car. I know now that it isn't and will never buy another one, unless it's a '59 like the one I had a few years ago.

As far as replacing the head gaskets myself, I wouldn't have any idea how to do it on my straight 6 Rambler much less on the STS. My father has owned several old cars but has never replaced a spark plug or done an oil change so I wasn't able to learn a lot about fixing cars from him while growing up like many of you guys. Plus there were no auto shop classes at the Catholic all boys high school I attended in the mid to late '60s.

My wife and I are going to keep driving the Caddy around town on trips of 5 miles or less so hopefully it will last several more years....

ryannel2003
12-15-08, 12:43 AM
When my shop gets a Northstar that needs a headgasket job, I usually hear lots of colorful language and tons of groaning.

Koooop
12-15-08, 02:18 PM
I admit I didn't do my homework regarding the Northshit engine. I mistakenly assumed that the Cadillac was a high quality, well built car.

Next time why don't you buy a nice, woman owned AMG55 Kompressor or how about a 190 2.3 16? I hear the old body style 745Li is a bargain as is the older S600. Can't get higher quality that those names.

I'm sure with high quality names like MBZ or BMW you'd never have a problem like you've had with your 10 year old used up, worn out POS Cadillac.

:thumbsup:

LOL

Destroyer
12-15-08, 09:37 PM
I guess it all boils down to whether you believe in individual responsibility or you're looking for a scape goat or handout.I'm not really sure what that means. I was not looking for a scape goat or a hand out. I simply wanted the damn car out of my face, out of my garage and out of my life, pretty simple huh?. How many hours does it take to do a H/G stud/cert job on a N*? My time is worth money and the time I'm not making money I like to spend with the wife and kids, not fiddling around with a POS in the garage. As I explained, doing the job yourself is not cheap, is very time consuming and it is extremely risky if it's not your forte!. You drive a 2006 STS AWD. Have you been faced with this issue? If so, did you do the job yourself or would you do the job yourself?

Koooop
12-15-08, 09:41 PM
How many miles on that Caddy anyway? 192,128?

BTW that whine you hear when you drive is the operator.

Destroyer
12-15-08, 10:05 PM
How many miles on that Caddy anyway? 192,128?

BTW that whine you hear when you drive is the operator.
My '98 had 98k miles when it blew the H/G's. Had 88k when I bought it so at least I got to drive it for 10k miles.

Destroyer
12-15-08, 10:07 PM
Next time why don't you buy a nice, woman owned AMG55 Kompressor or how about a 190 2.3 16? I hear the old body style 745Li is a bargain as is the older S600. Can't get higher quality that those names.

I'm sure with high quality names like MBZ or BMW you'd never have a problem like you've had with your 10 year old used up, worn out POS Cadillac.

:thumbsup:

LOLYou are 100% correct. I owned a '97 S320 and it was a great car that gave me no problems but I hear the S600 is quite troublesome. It is a "substantial" car though. Cannot even be compared to a 90's Cadillac in terms of quality "feel" or "drive".

Lebowski
12-15-08, 10:48 PM
How many miles on that Caddy anyway? 192,128?

Mine has 114K. The guy across the street from me has a '92 Camry with 370K on it and the head has never been off the engine. Now I know why more people are buying Jap cars than US ones....:banghead::banghead::banghead:

dkozloski
12-15-08, 11:07 PM
I'm not really sure what that means. I was not looking for a scape goat or a hand out. I simply wanted the damn car out of my face, out of my garage and out of my life, pretty simple huh?. How many hours does it take to do a H/G stud/cert job on a N*? My time is worth money and the time I'm not making money I like to spend with the wife and kids, not fiddling around with a POS in the garage. As I explained, doing the job yourself is not cheap, is very time consuming and it is extremely risky if it's not your forte!. You drive a 2006 STS AWD. Have you been faced with this issue? If so, did you do the job yourself or would you do the job yourself?
I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to do the job myself because I've got almost sixty years of experience to fall back on. I've overhauled engines far more complicated and critical than any NorthStar. On the other hand, I would agree that it would be a daunting task for a noobe. There have been some pretty amature guys that came to this site and left with the job done. I'd say that if you had a good attitude and regarded the whole thing as a learning experience it was doable. Hell, I overhauled the Buick Dynaflow transmission in the family car right after my dad died when I was fifteen years old because we couldn't afford to hire anybody and I got the job done. The only help I had was coolie labor from some friends and a Chilton's manual. The front pump was worn out and there were no parts available because of a strike by the UAW. I filled in the groove in the cover plate with brazing and filed it by hand and used emery paper taped on to a piece of glass from a broken store window to get it flat. You do what you gotta do. When I'm presented with a problem I consider it a challenge and not an excuse to sit on my ass and pass the blame to somebody else.

Destroyer
12-15-08, 11:24 PM
You do what you gotta do. When I'm presented with a problem I consider it a challenge and not an excuse to sit on my ass and pass the blame to somebody else.The blame is there Koz. It's the package thats the big problem, not just the H/G issue. GM has made many mistakes, the N* being one of them. This is the first time in my history since I've been driving (22 years) that I am without a GM vechicle. That will soon change as I'm selling the Cobra and am on the lookout for a clean late 60's-early 70's Cadillac 'vert, but still...................

goldendd
12-31-08, 08:20 PM
I currently have a 1998 ECT with a blown head gasket @ 77K miles. I have owned countless Cadillacs and I am not going to stop. I am going to an auction on Tuesday to look at more. My question is what is the most obvious indication that a Northstar has a head gasket problem? I have an OBD tester that I take with me when I go to buy a car, is this enough? This is the second time I have been "burned" buying a Cadillac with an unknown major repair needed to make the car roadworthy. I don't want it to happen again. Any suggestions? Thanks!
P. S. Anybody looking for a '98 Eldo that just needs a little work?...Cheap??

Submariner409
01-01-09, 09:59 AM
If you're lookng at any '90+ Cadillac you don't need an OBD-I or -II tester: it's all built into the cars already. Read the stickys at the top of this thread page and also in Seville and Deville and Technical Tips.

A bad head gasket (Northstar) allows a LOT of white steam/vapor at cold start (sweet-smelling, wet tailpipe), intermittent cold miss, gas bubbling in the coolant with possible overpressure and coolant blowoff. Quick overheat under sustained load - long hill or long, slow acceleration. Maybe evidence in and around the cooling system and fittings of recent tinkering and work. Brown snot in the bottom of the coolant surge tank. Coolant stains on the surge tank top. Coolant stains on the inner fender under the surge tank.

jeffrsmith
01-01-09, 12:30 PM
I had a very large white stain on the hood insulation - I thought it was strange and kind of put it down to the detailing that the dealer had done in the engine bay.

If you are really concerned buy a block test kit from NAPA and take it with you. They are easy to use, and you do not have to run the car for long to get a reading if there is an issue.

goldendd
01-01-09, 05:24 PM
That is great advise if I could inspect the cars cold or drive them. I get most of my Cadillacs at auctions. Most have been started many times before i see them. I cant drive them either. The last one i got had no signs of a problem until 15 miles into the drive home. I will check out the notes to see if I can identify a problem visually or with codes. Thank you.

SPreston2001
01-01-09, 05:53 PM
Ok I love my Caddy to death but come on people, these N* do have a headgasket problem! When it comes to headgaskets on these cars its not IF they fail, its WHEN they fail. I know plenty of people who have 20+ year old cars that have had the snot ran out of them, and have never had any kinds of major engine problems. Just because you buy a expensive car doesnt mean you should have to expect expensive repairs. You would think somewhere in the price your paying for the added reliability of such a expensive vechicle. Why is it that you can buy a 95 camry with 175,000 miles on it, and have it out last a 2004 Caddy??!! And since when should a person be happy to get 8, 9, or 10 years out of a engine?!! Thats bullcrap! Considering the price of these cars new, the engine should last alot longer than some measly 10 years!! Honestly I dont consider a 10 year old car OLD. I have a 85 monte carlo that I consider OLD but my 2000 STS is not considered old in my book. If my 350 in my monte carlo was to go out, then I wouldnt be upset considering the age and mileage, but if my N* bites the dust then yeah I will be livid!! I know alot of you guys try to back up these N* and GM because you own one, but that doesnt mean theres not a designed flaw. GM should have took responsibility and fixed the stud problem. Before I even joined this forum I heard plenty of horror stories about the N* headgasket problem. N* Caddys with blown headgaskets are just as common as the ones without bad gaskets. Just look on ebay a see how many in excellent condition with blown headgasket Caddys you find! If you guys dont think its a problem, then why is it that whenever somebody on this forum ask for advice before they buy a N* vechicle almost everybody tells them to have the heads pressurized or check for coolant in the exhaust? If you go to a Honda or Toyota forum that not the case! Im not saying headgaskets dont blow on every make and model, but its WAY more common on the N*. Im honestly surprised a class action lawsuit hasnt been made yet. If you were to tell people when they brought these cars brand new that they would be lucky to get 10 years out of the engine before the headgaskets needed to be replaced then Cadillac would have went bankrupt! Come on people dont be nieve. Cadillac makes some great cars, but the motor and transmission should be rock solid for such a expensive car. I love my GM vechicle but the headgaskets do scare me.

ltdltc
01-02-09, 10:50 PM
Headgaskets were a common problem on Ford 3.8L V6s.

dkozloski
01-02-09, 10:58 PM
A car that's more than five years old has little more than residual value. If you don't believe me take it to the bank and try to borrow money on it. Why waste your time obsessing about something over which you have no control and can't change. A small to medium size car is very difficult to justify on economic grounds. A big expensive car is even worse. Anybody out there bellyaching about some defect in their hoopty needs to get a life. Driving around in ancient clunkers is for the little people.

dkozloski
01-02-09, 11:01 PM
Headgaskets were a common problem on Ford 3.8L V6s.
Cracked blocks were almost guaranteed in flathead Fords, V8s and 6s both. The cracks started in an exhaust valve seat and went right down the cylinder until it hit water. When the water showed up in the oil pan, off came the heads. You took an old screwdriver and used it to drive steel wool into the crack and followed up with two big jars of Bars Stop Leak. The "for sale" sign went up in the front yard as soon as possible.

Horse traders have been selling defective used transportation for thousands of years. It's a part of civilization. When you make a bad buy either try to pass it on to the next sucker or shut up and take your lumps. Everybody hates a sore loser, especially a loud one.

Destroyer
01-03-09, 12:16 AM
Headgaskets were a common problem on Ford 3.8L V6s.Yes but that is NOT the case with the N*. The N* lifts the head off the block and then needs to be time certed to hold it back down. It's not the head gaskets themselves. The 3.8 Ford is VERY easy to fix, all you need is new H/G's and other associated gaskets and a few hours and you are good to go. If only it was as simple with a N*.

goldendd
01-03-09, 02:51 PM
Thank you i will. Yes i am very concerned. There is a very high percentage of Cadillacs at auction with blown head gaskets, bad position sensors, strut or other very expensive suspension problems. That is because it is a good place to "dump off" a problem car and you can sell it "As Is" Yes the prices are good at auctions but what good is it if you end up paying retail by the time the repair is done. Thank you for your time.

dkozloski
01-03-09, 03:25 PM
Thank you i will. Yes i am very concerned. There is a very high percentage of Cadillacs at auction with blown head gaskets, bad position sensors, strut or other very expensive suspension problems. That is because it is a good place to "dump off" a problem car and you can sell it "As Is" Yes the prices are good at auctions but what good is it if you end up paying retail by the time the repair is done. Thank you for your time.
If you wind up paying retail it would seem to me that you paid a fair price for value received.

97EldoCoupe
01-03-09, 04:00 PM
Destroyer it's the head gaskets as well. Not just the bolts pulling up.

There is a permanent repair for the Northstar that does not involve the use of inserts. That said, anyone with a bad HG should just pay to have it repaired and they'll have a good reliable Cadillac for years and years to come. Just stay away from corrosive antifreeze.

SPreston2001
01-04-09, 01:31 PM
Dkozloski you sound retarded! How can you justify a design flaw and back it up by just saying you just deal with it?! WTF is that?! You said quote "Anybody out there bellyaching about some defect in their hoopty needs to get a life. Driving around in ancient clunkers is for the little people."??! So now your king tut? I can afford to buy a new car but I like my 2000. I also dont need to buy a new car considering I also own a 2006 Avalanche and a 03 GSXR 1000. Its people like you who make buying used cars such a huge risk. Passing a car onto somebody else knowing its has a serious problem is flat out wrong! Were talking about the design flaw in these N* engines so if your so almighty and dont mind spending $4K on a headgasket job then ignore the post and move on! Its sad that a motor in a 85 honda accord is more reliable than a N*. I dont mind doing maintnance on my vechicles but some stuff is unjustifiable.

dkozloski
01-04-09, 03:59 PM
Dkozloski you sound retarded! How can you justify a design flaw and back it up by just saying you just deal with it?! WTF is that?! You said quote "Anybody out there bellyaching about some defect in their hoopty needs to get a life. Driving around in ancient clunkers is for the little people."??! So now your king tut? I can afford to buy a new car but I like my 2000. I also dont need to buy a new car considering I also own a 2006 Avalanche and a 03 GSXR 1000. Its people like you who make buying used cars such a huge risk. Passing a car onto somebody else knowing its has a serious problem is flat out wrong! Were talking about the design flaw in these N* engines so if your so almighty and dont mind spending $4K on a headgasket job then ignore the post and move on! Its sad that a motor in a 85 honda accord is more reliable than a N*. I dont mind doing maintnance on my vechicles but some stuff is unjustifiable.
Knowing about and anticipating problems in buying used transportation has been a required skill among buyers for thousands of years. Private party sales have been "buyer beware" and "as is" for years and years. You are fully aware that a Northstar can have problems just like Toyotas have a sludging problem and other makes have problems of their own. The courts have decided to stay out of this arena and let buyers and sellers settle the issues between themselves. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If you make an uninformed or stupid buying decision, don't go looking for somebody else to blame. Don't make a risky buy if you're not prepared to walk away from your mistake. There are a lot of life's issues that it would be nice if they were different but they are not. Accept it and deal with it. Maybe you shouldn't be out there trading cars with the big boys? Stick with dealers where you can get a warranty and recourse.

dkozloski
01-04-09, 04:45 PM
You guys that can't stand taking a hit buying a car with a hidden defect need to seriously consider the next time you go to the car auction and start dealing with the big boys, buying a half-pint of whiskey and staying in the parking lot. When you see a big shiny car with a low price that everybody else is passing on, it ought to be a clue that you should too.

dkozloski
01-04-09, 05:42 PM
YouTube - The Wagon Yard

SPreston2001
01-04-09, 09:34 PM
Yeah I see what your saying. Im not saying expensive cars shouldnt be expensive to repair, and I totally agree with you when you say that. But the fact that these cars have extremely high headgasket failures should fall on GM. I wouldnt have a problem if a random part failed on any car I own, but this headgasket problem is way too common for GM to do nothing about it. I once had a 94 Acura Legend that had 235K miles on it when I sold it. That car was one of the most reliable cars I have ever owned and never needed any major repairs. I think the most expensive thing I had to replace was the radiator on that car. So yes, expensive cars should have expensive repair bills, but they should also be alot more reliable.

dkozloski
01-04-09, 10:01 PM
Yeah I see what your saying. Im not saying expensive cars shouldnt be expensive to repair, and I totally agree with you when you say that. But the fact that these cars have extremely high headgasket failures should fall on GM. I wouldnt have a problem if a random part failed on any car I own, but this headgasket problem is way too common for GM to do nothing about it. I once had a 94 Acura Legend that had 235K miles on it when I sold it. That car was one of the most reliable cars I have ever owned and never needed any major repairs. I think the most expensive thing I had to replace was the radiator on that car. So yes, expensive cars should have expensive repair bills, but they should also be alot more reliable.
Cadillac adressed the headbolt problem as it appeared. Several changes were made and the problem does not exist in the present run of cars. The idea that Cadillac should go back and rescue the owners of the old clunkers with the older design is not rational. The applicable warranty expired years ago. None of the affected cars has any value beyond that of any other old clunker of the same vintage. The new cars are fine. Old cars never die, they just fade away. RIP

As I mentioned in another thread on the same subject. Consider it an opportunity to pick up an older car that still looks good and with some sweat equity you can put it back into a reliable drivable condition. It's still going to be an old car that requires expensive/junkyard parts to keep it going.

dkozloski
01-04-09, 10:45 PM
Call the contractor that built your house ten years ago and tell him he needs to fix the leaky pipe in your wall. Tell him you know people with houses a hundred years old that don't have leaky pipes. Hold the phone away from your ear as he replies. srsly.

blb
01-05-09, 03:51 PM
Fact 1: GM can't figure out how to keep the heads sealed securely to the block for the life of the engine on their flagship engine family, even after several revisions to the headbolts and thread design.

Fact 2: GM needs a government bailout to avoid bankruptcy.

Fact 3: Fact 1 and Fact 2 are not purely coincidental.

dkozloski
01-05-09, 03:56 PM
Fact 1: GM can't figure out how to keep the heads sealed securely to the block for the life of the engine on their flagship engine family, even after several revisions to the headbolts and thread design.

Fact 2: GM needs a government bailout to avoid bankruptcy.

Fact 3: Fact 1 and Fact 2 are not purely coincidental.
Bullshit! There are no reported failures in RWD cars and damn few of the FWDs since 2001.

blb
01-05-09, 07:33 PM
No use in hiring an attorney. There is no law being broken in making vehicles that don't consistently hold up during or past the time the warranty is in effect. It's just not a very good business model as evidenced by GM's current financial status. To continue to produce their flagship engine for nearly a decade before the headgasket problem was acknowledged and addressed at all, however ineffectively, speaks volumes about why they are now pleading for taxpayer funded financial assistance to stay in business. And, BTW, locally there are still FWD Northstar headgasket failures up to and including the 2006 model year. I haven't seen one on an '07 yet, but time will tell.

Destroyer
01-05-09, 09:53 PM
If you make an uninformed or stupid buying decision, don't go looking for somebody else to blame.
Just for the record, are you saying that buying a N* Cadillac is a "stupid buying decision"?. If so, I am guilty and totally agree with that statement.

dkozloski
01-06-09, 12:58 AM
Just for the record, are you saying that buying a N* Cadillac is a "stupid buying decision"?. If so, I am guilty and totally agree with that statement.
I'm saying that if a deal looks too good to be true it's probably too good to be true.

Koooop
01-06-09, 03:46 AM
Just for the record, are you saying that buying a N* Cadillac is a "stupid buying decision"?. If so, I am guilty and totally agree with that statement.



In your case yes, buying the car you bought was a stupid decision. You admit that you are guilty of buying a used up old clunker without bothering to get a warranty or an inspection.

Man up, you did this to yourself.

So take your lumps like a man. :crybaby:

Koooop
01-06-09, 05:48 PM
1. hoopty 366 up (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=1&term=hoopty#), 20 down (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=1&term=hoopty#)http://www.urbandictionary.com/images/thumbsup.gif (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=1&term=hoopty#)http://www.urbandictionary.com/images/thumbsdown.gif (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=1&term=hoopty#)Basically, a piece of shit car. Usually cheap and/or broken down. Can be any size, make or model, but must (or should) be embarrassing to drive for some reason, such as when you bump the stereo all the plastic "effects" you have hot-glued to the exterior rattle, instantly betraying the cheapness of your bling (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bling).

A hoopty can be anything from a '78 Cadillac Brogham with the panels missing in front of the brake lights (but replaced on only one side with duct tape), to a fine purple two-year old Hyundai Elantra with three spinner hubcaps and a vanity plate that reads BBY GRL.

The term has also been used in certain circles as an insult to one's boy or girlfriend, as in scrub (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scrub) or hoochie mama (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hoochie%20mama).
1. Can you believe he be gettin' all mad whenever somebody lean up against his old stupid hoopty.

AlBundy
01-06-09, 06:36 PM
Lets try and get some of that GM bailout $$$ for our headgasket problems.:histeric::alchi:

blb
01-06-09, 07:45 PM
Hey, AlBundy don't you drive a Plymouth Duster???......at least they were super reliable and you didn't have to stress over headgasket failures on those.....as a matter of fact, a high school friend proved you could run as slant 6 for quite a while without any oil, without any type of failure.

AlBundy
01-06-09, 09:10 PM
Hey, AlBundy don't you drive a Plymouth Duster???......at least they were super reliable and you didn't have to stress over headgasket failures on those.....as a matter of fact, a high school friend proved you could run as slant 6 for quite a while without any oil, without any type of failure.

I moved up to the Eldo:thumbsup: and thats amazing.:eek:

Koooop
01-06-09, 11:11 PM
Al Bundy drove a Dodge.

I wouldn't say super reliable, more like you can't kill a slant 6.

Ranger
01-06-09, 11:12 PM
The REAL Al Bundy did.

Destroyer
01-07-09, 07:24 AM
In your case yes, buying the car you bought was a stupid decision. You admit that you are guilty of buying a used up old clunker without bothering to get a warranty or an inspection.

Man up, you did this to yourself.

So take your lumps like a man. :crybaby: I'm not crying about the car, I'm over it. I know not to buy any GM product that isn't RWD with a Chevy V8 now.

Koooop
01-07-09, 07:55 PM
I'm not crying about the car, I'm over it. I know not to buy any GM product that isn't RWD with a Chevy V8 now.

GM 3.4 & 3.8 FWD were excellent drive trains, not without flaws, but damn good. The Northstars may not have aged well, but many of the GM FWD drive trains been great.

blb
01-08-09, 08:54 AM
Al Bundy drove a Dodge.

I wouldn't say super reliable, more like you can't kill a slant 6.

Al called it a "Dodge" on the show, but it was actually a Plymouth. Most people couldn't tell the difference and I guess most couldn't care less.

Destroyer
01-09-09, 08:49 AM
GM 3.4 & 3.8 FWD were excellent drive trains, not without flaws, but damn good. The Northstars may not have aged well, but many of the GM FWD drive trains been great.I have friends with a '99 Grand Am GT and '03 Rendezvous, both with the 3.4 and nothing but problems with both. Neither vechicle is beaten on, yet the Buick practically lives at the dealership. The 3.8 is a different story and it is a good motor but ask yourself this: how many years did it take to get it right?

Koooop
01-09-09, 03:13 PM
I gave my Mother in Law a Buick with a 3.8 in it years ago. I think it was a 1993 had to take it away from her at 140,000 (130,000 of them were nearly trouble free). I did make sure the car was service according to the owners book. Great car, but a 15yo Buick is a Hoopty so it had to go.

My wife's Olds Silo has a 3.4, outside of normal repairs I sucked up an intake manifold gasket and a trans module in 101,000 miles. Those two repairs combine were $1,000. I've never put in a quart of oil between 4,500 -6,000 mile oil changes or done a tune up. Very reliable motor, drive train, interior and exterior passes for 35,000miles.

I think I'll Sue Chevrolet, my 40yo Corvette has a leaking water pump again.

DIRTFARMER
01-10-09, 06:11 PM
SO Does any one of you Fine Happy People Know where i can Get My 2000 DeVille With a H/G problem
Fixed at Im in North SanDiego Co Im a new Member as of today, Im very handy with tools, But if the price
is right ill have it done>>> Cause I LOVES MY CADDY

Koooop
01-11-09, 12:52 AM
SO Does any one of you Fine Happy People Know where i can Get My 2000 DeVille With a H/G problem
Fixed at Im in North SanDiego Co Im a new Member as of today, Im very handy with tools, But if the price
is right ill have it done>>> Cause I LOVES MY CADDY

Have you consulted your Corvette Mechanic?

Destroyer
01-11-09, 10:38 PM
I gave my Mother in Law a Buick with a 3.8 in it years ago. I think it was a 1993 had to take it away from her at 140,000 (130,000 of them were nearly trouble free). I did make sure the car was service according to the owners book. Great car, but a 15yo Buick is a Hoopty so it had to go.

My wife's Olds Silo has a 3.4, outside of normal repairs I sucked up an intake manifold gasket and a trans module in 101,000 miles. Those two repairs combine were $1,000. I've never put in a quart of oil between 4,500 -6,000 mile oil changes or done a tune up. Very reliable motor, drive train, interior and exterior passes for 35,000miles.

I think I'll Sue Chevrolet, my 40yo Corvette has a leaking water pump again.
We all form opinions from experience and mine says the 3.4=crap and 3.8=Good

ted tcb
01-11-09, 10:52 PM
You're right, Destroyer, we form opinions based upon our own eperiences.

Me ... I had my 1998 LeSabre (3.8) packed to drive my family to Florida from Ontario, dead of winter.
Noticed a few drops of coolant in the snow ... vacation delayed for two days, while I paid for the intake manifold
gasket to be replaced. Mileage was 60k.
My mechanic has one guy who pretty much specializes with this repair.

It's nowhere near as bad as a HG repair on a northstar, but its the last 3.8 I ever owned.
Had I not noticed the few drops of coolant on the ground, it could've ruined the vacation
as I drove through tough rural Pennsylvania terrain.

Bizarre as it may sound, my 4 northstar motors were less problematic than my 3.8.
Definitely involves some luck, as all my vehicles had the coolant changed every year.
I just don't feel like trying to beat the odds again with another northstar.
Although, Jake's $1500 repair make a cheap ETC awful tempting.

Destroyer
01-11-09, 11:09 PM
You're right, Destroyer, we form opinions based upon our own eperiences.

Me ... I had my 1998 LeSabre (3.8) packed to drive my family to Florida from Ontario, dead of winter.
Noticed a few drops of coolant in the snow ... vacation delayed for two days, while I paid for the intake manifold
gasket to be replaced. Mileage was 60k.
My mechanic has one guy who pretty much specializes with this repair.

It's nowhere near as bad as a HG repair on a northstar, but its the last 3.8 I ever owned.
Had I not noticed the few drops of coolant on the ground, it could've ruined the vacation
as I drove through tough rural Pennsylvania terrain.

Bizarre as it may sound, my 4 northstar motors were less problematic than my 3.8.
Definitely involves some luck, as all my vehicles had the coolant changed every year.
I just don't feel like trying to beat the odds again with another northstar.
Although, Jake's $1500 repair make a cheap ETC awful tempting.Jake's $1500 repair is salvation......if you live near Canada.

Destroyer
01-11-09, 11:15 PM
You're right, Destroyer, we form opinions based upon our own eperiences.

Me ... I had my 1998 LeSabre (3.8) packed to drive my family to Florida from Ontario, dead of winter.
Noticed a few drops of coolant in the snow ... vacation delayed for two days, while I paid for the intake manifold
gasket to be replaced. Mileage was 60k.
My mechanic has one guy who pretty much specializes with this repair.

It's nowhere near as bad as a HG repair on a northstar, but its the last 3.8 I ever owned.
Had I not noticed the few drops of coolant on the ground, it could've ruined the vacation
as I drove through tough rural Pennsylvania terrain.

Bizarre as it may sound, my 4 northstar motors were less problematic than my 3.8.
Definitely involves some luck, as all my vehicles had the coolant changed every year.
I just don't feel like trying to beat the odds again with another northstar.
Although, Jake's $1500 repair make a cheap ETC awful tempting.I would not classify an intake gasket going at 60k miles as that bad. I could live with that. My '05 Dodge Ram w/Hemi needs a water pump (43k mile), should I condemn it and call crap so fast? Nah. It's easy to change. Repairs like this are expected and I'm prepared for. The N* crap I'm not.

C0RSA1R
01-11-09, 11:53 PM
Jake's $1500 repair is salvation......if you live near Canada.

Well, it's an eight hour trip for me to bring my car there. That isn't going to stop me. This summer or fall, once that dough is in the bank and I've already taken a 'real' vacation, it's off on a road trip to the mystical land of Canada, where you can have any beer you want . . . as long as it's a LaBatts.

If I were handier with a wrench, I'd do it myself - he sells the kit for around $500, and he describes it as comprehensive, all-included. I suppose that if I lived in California and loved my car enough, I'd buy the kit and attempt it myself. Being a lover of the open road, however, a week's excursion to London, Ontario, sounds like a better deal with the bonus of having a pro on the other end, wrench in hand, ready to tear it up and build it back the right way.


I would not classify an intake gasket going at 60k miles as that bad. I could live with that. My '05 Dodge Ram w/Hemi needs a water pump (43k mile), should I condemn it and call crap so fast? Nah. It's easy to change. Repairs like this are expected and I'm prepared for. The N* crap I'm not.

You know, as far as bad luxury cars go, I'm pretty sure that Jaguars have had some serious issues over the years. Not that I have firsthand experience, but every Sunday I log on and read Jeremy Clarkson's car reviews in the UK Sunday Times, and he talks an awful lot about how Jag engines seem to fall apart for no reason in particular after two or three years of driving. That would seem to be worse than the N*'s record by a good margin, if it's correct.

Destroyer
01-12-09, 12:40 AM
Well, it's an eight hour trip for me to bring my car there. That isn't going to stop me. This summer or fall, once that dough is in the bank and I've already taken a 'real' vacation, it's off on a road trip to the mystical land of Canada, where you can have any beer you want . . . as long as it's a LaBatts.

If I were handier with a wrench, I'd do it myself - he sells the kit for around $500, and he describes it as comprehensive, all-included. I suppose that if I lived in California and loved my car enough, I'd buy the kit and attempt it myself. Being a lover of the open road, however, a week's excursion to London, Ontario, sounds like a better deal with the bonus of having a pro on the other end, wrench in hand, ready to tear it up and build it back the right way.



You know, as far as bad luxury cars go, I'm pretty sure that Jaguars have had some serious issues over the years. Not that I have firsthand experience, but every Sunday I log on and read Jeremy Clarkson's car reviews in the UK Sunday Times, and he talks an awful lot about how Jag engines seem to fall apart for no reason in particular after two or three years of driving. That would seem to be worse than the N*'s record by a good margin, if it's correct.
Oh there are many cars that are just as shitty as N* cars. Thing is they weren't made in such quantity. MB had problems with their flagships as did BMW's and so forth but the sheer number of N* cars with this specific issue is startling, all mechanics know it just like they know to tell would be buyers to stay away from the 4.1 motors. N* Caddy's wound up in rental car fleets and so many of them were leased initially and they are plentiful. Take a car with the sheer volume of the N* cars and add a fatal mechanical problem and you could see how it would affect the whole line.

AlBundy
01-12-09, 01:05 PM
Take a car with the sheer volume of the N* cars and add a fatal mechanical problem and you could see how it would affect the whole line.


I asked Firestone what do they charge for a tune up and they told me they don't do N*, take it to the dealer. After doing the job myself I don't understand why this would be a problem for a trained mechanic.:annoyed:

dkozloski
01-12-09, 02:20 PM
I asked Firestone what do they charge for a tune up and they told me they don't do N*, take it to the dealer. After doing the job myself I don't understand why this would be a problem for a trained mechanic.:annoyed:
It probably is something similar to all the DIYers that post here about doing a NorthStar tuneup with Pep Boys sparkplugs and wires and it winds up running worse than ever until they get that junk replaced with OEM stuff. The semi-professionals don't like having to do the job twice and the second time is on them.

AlBundy
01-12-09, 04:44 PM
It probably is something similar to all the DIYers that post here about doing a NorthStar tuneup with Pep Boys sparkplugs and wires and it winds up running worse than ever until they get that junk replaced with OEM stuff. The semi-professionals don't like having to do the job twice and the second time is on them.

Good point koz.:yup:

Koooop
01-12-09, 04:50 PM
I asked Firestone what do they charge for a tune up and they told me they don't do N*, take it to the dealer. After doing the job myself I don't understand why this would be a problem for a trained mechanic.:annoyed:

You state this As If Firestone has trained mechanics. :banghead:

There's no substitue for OEM wires for many GM products. I still run factory wires in my '69 Chevy because they work best.

Destroyer
01-12-09, 10:45 PM
I asked Firestone what do they charge for a tune up and they told me they don't do N*, take it to the dealer. After doing the job myself I don't understand why this would be a problem for a trained mechanic.:annoyed:I know. It was the same story for me. Nobody wanted to do anything mechanical to it and the ones that did charge massively so they could cover their arse in case it came back.