: We made bad cars ---sorry !!



Submariner409
12-08-08, 03:21 PM
For a real mid-day puke, go to www.foxnews.com (http://www.foxnews.com) and read the article on GM entitled "We made bad cars....sorry !!"

"Begin to repay loans by 2011...." ??? Who's kidding who. GM and the other two want a handout funded by you and me, plain and simple.

Spittin Game
12-08-08, 03:34 PM
I still dont think they deserve a bailout. I am not getting any money from anyone to help with my struggling business in these times.

Blackout
12-08-08, 03:36 PM
For a real mid-day puke, go to www.foxnews.com (http://www.foxnews.com) and read the article on GM entitled "We made bad cars....sorry !!"

"Begin to repay loans by 2011...." ??? Who's kidding who. GM and the other two want a handout funded by you and me, plain and simple.

That would be untrue. Technically it's GM and Chrysler. Ford needs a line of credit and they will be fine but if the others are going to be getting money then Ford wants in as well even though, technically, they don't need it

The Tony Show
12-08-08, 03:50 PM
These statements have been forced out of them by arrogant *******s in Congress that are trying to make up for their total lack of planning and oversight in the Bank bailout (not to mention their role in causing it) by running the Automakers through a meat grinder. Basically, the Government is so embarrassed about how they handled TARP that they now want to embarrass someone else worse.

It's pathetic grade-school level antics, frankly.

Submariner409
12-08-08, 03:57 PM
Tony........Antics sort of like a recent election ? :confused:

Coma
12-08-08, 05:15 PM
I still dont think they deserve a bailout. I am not getting any money from anyone to help with my struggling business in these times.

I don't think the public views your business as "necessary" to the country's economical needs.

Spittin Game
12-08-08, 05:49 PM
I don't think the public views your business as "necessary" to the country's economical needs.

GM aint necessary for shit. Let em sink.

RightTurn
12-08-08, 07:45 PM
Do you have any idea the number of suppliers and workers in this country that will go down with them? No. I didn't think you would.

93DevilleUSMC
12-08-08, 07:50 PM
It seems to me that automaking in this country is absolutely vital to our interests. It is sad commentary that when one vital interest needs money, every one else who wasted and pissed away money comes with hat in hand and sob story ready to beg for even more taxpayer-provided handouts. The best examples of these are banks like Merill Lynch and small business owners and individuals across America.

Night Wolf
12-08-08, 08:21 PM
The womens voice in the foxnews video is quite irritating, as is what she says.

Spittin Game
12-08-08, 08:29 PM
Do you have any idea the number of suppliers and workers in this country that will go down with them? No. I didn't think you would.

Sure I do.

Do you have any idea the number of posts you have in just over 2 years? Do you know what the sun looks like?:bonkers:

RightTurn
12-08-08, 10:17 PM
Nope. I'm in prison.

Jesda
12-08-08, 11:42 PM
GM can make amends by putting a 2009 CTS-V in my parking space (and handing me the keys and the title of course).

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-08-08, 11:48 PM
Yeah I could go for a free '09 CTS-V...that might make me have a little more confidence in GM... :lildevil: ;)

77CDV
12-08-08, 11:56 PM
Yeah I could go for a free '09 CTS-V...that might make me have a little more confidence in GM... :lildevil: ;)

That's our Chad: easy but never cheap.:alchi:

Po Pimp
12-09-08, 12:02 AM
I still dont think they deserve a bailout. I am not getting any money from anyone to help with my struggling business in these times.

Then again if your business collapses your not going to potentially take 10% of the jobs in America. If the big three collapse that is the potential lose. The unemployment rate is 6.7%. We just had the biggest monthly lose in 34 years. We are in the longest recession since the Great Depression. Most economist agree if these companies go down we are in a depression. If we do fall into a depression the credit markets will only further freeze up. The collapse of a couple of major banks will be shortly behind. Unemployment getting near 20% at this point. The bottom line is that it will be a big old $hit sandwich that all of us Americans (well really the world) are going to have to take a bite of. This would be way more costly then bankrolling these manufactures for multiple years if that is what it took, although, I am condoning that.

I personally do not want to see any more government money going to fund businesses. That being said I am not going to get mad, close my eyes and screw myself.

If you want to get mad at someone look around in your everyday life. It is the people beside you that are trying to live above their means to meet some sort of superficial stature that have ran the economy into the ground. One out of every ten home owners is behind on their payments heading towards foreclosure. Some due to circumstances which they could not help, understandable. Others are because of ignorance. While these business do have bad practices it has always been the consumer who make the decisions that matter. The old adage "if it sounds to good to be true then it probably is" comes to mind. People have seemingly forgotten about it.

The credit markets are not going to completely unfreeze anytime soon because right now Americans are really bad credit risk. The banks are refusing to loan for these reasons. This has played a huge role in the down turn in business for these manufactures. Like it or not the government is going to have to seemingly print money play money to get us out of this mess. If we take nothing else from this past year in history it should be to "think before you buy."

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-08, 12:09 AM
That's our Chad: easy but never cheap.:alchi:



What can I say? I'm easily pleased by expensive, high quality things.

RightTurn
12-09-08, 12:26 AM
Ditto, but I seldom get them here in the Big House. :(

orconn
12-09-08, 12:33 AM
Then again if your business collapses your not going to potentially take 10% of the jobs in America. If the big three collapse that is the potential lose. The unemployment rate is 6.7%. We just had the biggest monthly lose in 34 years. We are in the longest recession since the Great Depression. Most economist agree if these companies go down we are in a depression. If we do fall into a depression the credit markets will only further freeze up. The collapse of a couple of major banks will be shortly behind. Unemployment getting near 20% at this point. The bottom line is that it will be a big old sandwich that all of us Americans (well really the world) are going to have to take a bite of. This would be way more costly then bankrolling these manufactures for multiple years if that is what it took, although, I am condoning that.

I personally do not want to see any more government money going to fund businesses. That being said I am not going to get mad, close my eyes and screw myself.

If you want to get mad at someone look around in your everyday life. It is the people beside you that are trying to live above their means to meet some sort of superficial stature that have ran the economy into the ground. One out of every ten home owners is behind on their payments heading towards foreclosure. Some due to circumstances which they could not help, understandable. Others are because of ignorance. While these business do have bad practices it has always been the consumer who make the decisions that matter. The old adage "if it sounds to good to be true then it probably is" comes to mind. People have seemingly forgotten about it.

The credit markets are not going to completely unfreeze anytime soon because right now Americans are really bad credit risk. The banks are refusing to loan for these reasons. This has played a huge role in the down turn in business for these manufactures. Like it or not the government is going to have to seemingly print money play money to get us out of this mess. If we take nothing else from this past year in history it should be to "think before you buy."

I think the gentleman pretty much sees the situation pretty clearly. When all is said and done we have been hoist by our own petard!

RightTurn
12-09-08, 01:00 AM
Hey, heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey. No petard talk in the lounge. :alchi:


:lol:

Blackout
12-09-08, 01:27 PM
http://buffalobeast.com/133/bigthree.jpg

The Tony Show
12-09-08, 02:20 PM
Completely and utterly incorrect factually, but still funny.

Submariner409
12-09-08, 06:07 PM
orconn, Shakespeare would roll in his grave if he knew he were being associated with a business bailout.........

codewize
12-09-08, 11:29 PM
Your business hasn't been the center of the US economy for the last 100 years.

I don't think people realize what could and probably would happen to this country if we let the big 3 go out of business.

Maybe we don't need 3 major auto manufacturer and I agree that there is much money being ill spent in all of them. I also don't think we should just hand money out to failing or mis-managed business but the auto makers have a lot to do with the strength of this country.

I'm not saying give them what they want and see what happens. I think there are a lot of changes that need to be made and I think the funds should have specific uses. If implemented correctly I think at least 2 of the big 3 can survive this.

I'm not getting any money for my business either but I have also set myself up over the years to be able to survive bad times.

If you run / own a business then think like a farmer not like a wall street analyst.

The pic above couldn't be more true. There was a time in this country when buying an import was taboo. Back in the 70's when this all started they used to say go ahead, buy an import, and when you don't have a job and can't feed your children remember where you spent your money. Well now that's all coming around full circle. So go ahead keep buying imports.

American auto makers had some bad times, they made some bad cars but for heaven's sakes stand by your country. Especially now when the imports are inferior in quality and don't really get that great of mileage, like has been instilled in all of us through the media. Take the blinder off and take a look around you.


I still dont think they deserve a bailout. I am not getting any money from anyone to help with my struggling business in these times.

LS1Mike
12-10-08, 12:25 AM
Your business hasn't been the center of the US economy for the last 100 years.

I don't think people realize what could and probably would happen to this country if we let the big 3 go out of business.

Maybe we don't need 3 major auto manufacturer and I agree that there is much money being ill spent in all of them. I also don't think we should just hand money out to failing or mis-managed business but the auto makers have a lot to do with the strength of this country.

I'm not saying give them what they want and see what happens. I think there are a lot of changes that need to be made and I think the funds should have specific uses. If implemented correctly I think at least 2 of the big 3 can survive this.

I'm not getting any money for my business either but I have also set myself up over the years to be able to survive bad times.

If you run / own a business then think like a farmer not like a wall street analyst.

The pic above couldn't be more true. There was a time in this country when buying an import was taboo. Back in the 70's when this all started they used to say go ahead, buy an import, and when you don't have a job and can't feed your children remember where you spent your money. Well now that's all coming around full circle. So go ahead keep buying imports.

American auto makers had some bad times, they made some bad cars but for heaven's sakes stand by your country. Especially now when the imports are inferior in quality and don't really get that great of mileage, like has been instilled in all of us through the media. Take the blinder off and take a look around you.

Couldn't have said it better myself.:thumbsup:

gary88
12-10-08, 02:59 AM
They really should have put the Sixteen into production :mad:

C0RSA1R
12-10-08, 06:52 PM
They really should have put the Sixteen into production :mad:

I would have robbed a bank to buy one of those. Like an Eldo and an XLR got drunk, hooked up under a full moon, and then put their kid in football camp for ten years.

Turns heads, turns tires, turns BMW and Merc owners green with envy, and produces roughly the same power as the Earth's core. Amen.

gary88
12-10-08, 07:23 PM
Bentley sold all 550 Brooklands they made for 2008, despite each costing about $400k. Plus they did it right in the middle of the credit crunch we're in now. Aston Martin is doing the same with the One-77 ($1.4 million). Over 100 people already have one pre-ordered, most dropping deposits of about $400k without even seeing as much as a photo of what the car will look like.

If you build it they will come. You hear that GM? Time to become the Standard of the World again.

Blackout
12-11-08, 05:59 PM
Bentley sold all 550 Brooklands they made for 2008, despite each costing about $400k. Plus they did it right in the middle of the credit crunch we're in now. Aston Martin is doing the same with the One-77 ($1.4 million). Over 100 people already have one pre-ordered, most dropping deposits of about $400k without even seeing as much as a photo of what the car will look like.

If you build it they will come. You hear that GM? Time to become the Standard of the World again.

This is the type of thought that got GM into the situation it's in now. There's no reason at all to make the Sixteen. It would never make money and just be yet another hole in the GM bank account that just bleeds money. They need to develop more hybrids, and build more appealing good gas mileage vehicles. As it is Cadillac is having a hard enough time trying to move XLR's and the XLR-V's. Unfortunately nobody in their right mind has Cadillac on the same luxury/prestigious level of that of a Rolls Royce, Bentley, or Aston Martin. To even put them up on that level is a slap in the face to them. Cadillacs are based off of another cars platform with shared engines, transmissions, interior pieces, etc of that of much cheaper cars so how that translates into "The Standard of the World" is beyond me. The only way IMO that Cadillac could start to become the standard of the world again is for them to become their own separate brand that has exclusive engines, chassis', the works and to not have the same engine I can have in 10 other GM models. Another thing that is working against Cadillac's rep is the XLR. I'm just stumped as to how Cadillac/GM can have the balls to charge as much as they do for the XLR let alone the V model when it's built off of the Corvette's chassis, has damn near all of the options of a Corvette, and has a inferior drivetrain to that of a Corvette but charge $30k+ more for the XLR compared to the Corvette. I'm sure it's not a big deal to some of you guys but to me if I'm going out and wanting to buy a luxury car let alone a sporty luxury car it should have to at least be able to match the performance of the companies other sports car. I assosciate luxury with speed, exclusivity, no parts bin swapping with entry level cars, options that I can only get from the luxury brand and not options that are shared with Saturns.

Po Pimp
12-12-08, 02:08 AM
GM has officially hired legal representation for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. While something still could happen in turns of legislation to stop this it is starting to look eerie for GM. It still is possible that Bush or Paulson to redirect money from the tarp fund directly to the companies regardless of what the house or senate has to say about it.

One huge problem that may occur with GM doing Chapter 11 is that no banks may lend them money to keep their doors open. Most banks do this because the can regroup some of the money in a short time frame from liquidating assets from the company (part of restructuring anyway) and the rest on later repayment plan.

The irony being that these members of the House and Senate refuse to give them money. Yet they still will ultimately have to loan them money to remain open because of this aspect of bankruptcy and the current economic situation. It is funny how the politicians try to pull the wool over the eyes of their people. The main stance that these opposing politicians have is the unions. The judicial system may still not do anything with them. The average GM worker makes $27 an hour. The average Toyota employee in America makes $30 an hour. Not seeing where the extra cost of having the Union is in this situation.

I personally do not like unions. I feel that they hamper the ability of a business owner to operate their business effectively or at least fear making business decisions because of negative reprisal from their employees. I can definately see why they came into place but their existence seems a little futile. I don't know that I would risk the American people to a depression to make a point though. Especially a point that is marginal at best.



I guess in this whole ordeal it kind of comes full circle to something I remember seeing after 9/11. An incredible amount of people in my area start mounting magnets and American flags to there car. Most of the cars I noticed it on where imports. The irony being is that my Cadillac emblem said the same thing and I didn't have to wait for a disaster to show how I felt about my country. I know some may take offense to that but it is just something that always kind of got to me. I made the decision to buy American because I knew I was ultimately supporting America. It will be sad to me at least if the American car manufactures die off. We made the car what it is today. Hard to see it go.

gothicaleigh
12-12-08, 10:34 AM
orconn, Shakespeare would roll in his grave if he knew he were being associated with a business bailout.........

Shakespeare had his own fair share of bailouts in his life. The man was great with words, but at many times not so great with money.

97EldoCoupe
12-15-08, 05:01 PM
I believe GM can make it out of the mess without anyone's help, if they do things right. To me they are still the best auto manufacturer around. The GM's I've owned and my family's owned have been very reliable cars.

Jesda
12-16-08, 08:18 AM
Shakespeare had his own fair share of bailouts in his life. The man was great with words, but at many times not so great with money.

I think he was a little overrated.

C0RSA1R
12-16-08, 11:40 PM
I personally do not like unions. I feel that they hamper the ability of a business owner to operate their business effectively or at least fear making business decisions because of negative reprisal from their employees. I can definately see why they came into place but their existence seems a little futile. I don't know that I would risk the American people to a depression to make a point though. Especially a point that is marginal at best.

I guess in this whole ordeal it kind of comes full circle to something I remember seeing after 9/11. An incredible amount of people in my area start mounting magnets and American flags to there car. Most of the cars I noticed it on where imports. The irony being is that my Cadillac emblem said the same thing and I didn't have to wait for a disaster to show how I felt about my country. I know some may take offense to that but it is just something that always kind of got to me. I made the decision to buy American because I knew I was ultimately supporting America. It will be sad to me at least if the American car manufactures die off. We made the car what it is today. Hard to see it go.

I for one take no offense to that whatsoever. Your thoughts basically crystallize how I've felt about cars since I've been driving. I've never owned a non-GM car - went from an '87 Cutlass Cruiser Wag, to an '89 Century with the 3.3 V6, to a '97 Cutty Supreme, and now my '98 ETC. Those cars never let me down - heck, since I killed 'em all, I was the one who let them down. I even wrote a poem about my Buick when I killed it by sliding on an icy road into some dude's front lawn - right into a 6 ton decorative boulder on my way to work at 8AM.

Yes, a poem - I got drunk later that night, and it was a really good car . . .

People talk about how GOP senators and reps want to reduce American wages, all while Ignoring how the unions and their left-wing allies have ARTIFICIALLY INFLATED the U.A.W. wages. Sure, that could work if GM was ALWAYS on the cutting edge, and NEVER produced a bad product (ever) - but the truth is they have been lagging in various areas for the best part of two decades and have put out some faulty products in recent memory (N* HGs, anyone?). While MOST cars and trucks made by GM are VERY good, the only way they could ever afford to pay union-level wages and remain solvent would be to NEVER make a mistake. Which, obviously, is quite impossible.

I know that CAPITALS = shouting, but I once swore that I would never buy anything but a GM product for myself - and now it looks like that might not be possible anymore. And for all you GM techs out there, and GM dealers, and yes, the workers too (not the union bosses though), if things go bad please know that we love your products, and always will.

billc83
12-18-08, 07:34 AM
"...but I once swore that I would never buy anything but a GM product for myself - and now it looks like that might not be possible anymore."

I'm sure the supply of used GM cars won't dry up for some time... :)