: BREAKING: Automakers to get $15 billion in federal loans



Jon
12-06-08, 01:02 AM
It's taken two rounds of Congressional hearings, some major pride swallowing and three detailed business plans, but it looks as if the Detroit 3 will be getting the federal loans they need, though not as much they asked for. A deal was reportedly reached between Democratic leaders and the White House that will supply around $15 billion in federal loans to the struggling U.S. auto industry. While General Motors, Ford and Chrysler asked for a combined maximum of $34 billion, the $15 billion is designed to ensure they stay alive until March when the issue will be readdressed with the input of a fresh Obama administration. GM and Chrysler reportedly need around $11 billion to survive the new year, while Ford has said it would only need government aid if one of the other two went under.

We're hearing that a deal was reached between Democrats and the Bush administration late Friday after top Dem. Nancy Pelosi gave in to the White House and its position that the money should come from $25 billion in loans previously approved to help the automakers retool for energy fuel efficient vehicles, rather than drawing the aid from the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Fund for struggling financial institutions. In return, Pelosi is seeking a guarantee that the money would be replenished in "a matter of weeks."

Both the Senate and House of Representatives have confirmed they will be meeting on Tuesday to vote on the deal, and it's expected that strong oversight of how the loans are used, whether in the form of an individual car czar or committee, will be part of the final package.

Party on, Detroit.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/05/breaking-congress-makes-tentative-deal-for-15-billion-in-autom/

Blackout
12-06-08, 10:20 AM
So in other words Chrysler and GM will be back in a couple of months with their hands out asking for more money to stay alive. They're just avoiding the inevitable

ryannel2003
12-06-08, 08:50 PM
^I was thinking the same.

Jesda
12-06-08, 11:59 PM
Golden shower!

Playdrv4me
12-07-08, 02:36 PM
It is a sad day for our country, the domestic automotive industry, and the principles of our free market when our automakers welcome a government bailout with open arms.

Night Wolf
12-07-08, 05:53 PM
Like we didn't see this coming.

Yey for printing more paper money! De-value the dollar even more. Gotta love an "elastic" currency.

Caddy Man
12-07-08, 07:11 PM
Nothing is confirmed yet. Congress still has to vote on it.

Sandy
12-07-08, 08:06 PM
Why are you all so down on our car companies? Did the feds not bail out the airlines, a few years back ? Did the feds not give 700 billion - yes 700 billion to wall street? !! Most of you will not recall because there was no big deal over it, made, like this football tossed around. Is our domestic automobile industry not as important as out domestic airline industry ?

Kentucky... Totopet built a plant there, and got the state & the Feds to grant them 100% free taxation, until 2017. No School Tax, No Land Tax, No State Income Tax, no Earning Tax .... for 25 years, for their promise to build there and hire workers from that state! All upper management, supervisors, etc are flowen in from Japan, none are Americans....

Where were you then to holler?? Gm, Ford, Chrysler and all the rest pay taxes,
Totopet gets a break, for a quarter of a century ??? Scream about that, as you pay YOUR taxes !

If you think things a bad now, justy wait until Chrysler, Ford & GM go belly up, and all those workers are outta work, and the suppliers go out of business, and the dealerships close, and the new car carriers go out onto unemployment. The domino effect will be still felt in 6 years many have said.
Why are you all so down on the Auto industry and so forgiving on wall street & the airlines?

Blackout
12-07-08, 08:33 PM
Why are you all so down on our car companies? Did the feds not bail out the airlines, a few years back ? Did the feds not give 700 billion - yes 700 billion to wall street? !! Most of you will not recall because there was no big deal over it, made, like this football tossed around. Is our domestic automobile industry not as important as out domestic airline industry ?

Kentucky... Totopet built a plant there, and got the state & the Feds to grant them 100% free taxation, until 2017. No School Tax, No Land Tax, No State Income Tax, no Earning Tax .... for 25 years, for their promise to build there and hire workers from that state! All upper management, supervisors, etc are flowen in from Japan, none are Americans....

Where were you then to holler?? Gm, Ford, Chrysler and all the rest pay taxes,
Totopet gets a break, for a quarter of a century ??? Scream about that, as you pay YOUR taxes !

If you think things a bad now, justy wait until Chrysler, Ford & GM go belly up, and all those workers are outta work, and the suppliers go out of business, and the dealerships close, and the new car carriers go out onto unemployment. The domino effect will be still felt in 6 years many have said.
Why are you all so down on the Auto industry and so forgiving on wall street & the airlines?

Sandy, you're becoming a broken record

Playdrv4me
12-07-08, 08:34 PM
Last time I checked I don't recall anyone here being accepting of the Wall Street bailout here either Sandy, and I WORK for a financial institution. Bailouts shouldn't happen in a free market economy PERIOD. I don't care if it's a loan or a complete handout. In either case GM might as well be GMUSPSFORDCHRYSLER now. Regarding the Airlines... I'm not sure if you've noticed, but with all the BIG domestic airlines performing TERRIBLY recently what happened? A WHOLE BUNCH of LEANER, MEANER and MORE EFFICIENT low fare carriers have appeared. Southwest being the most notable, AirTran, Allegiant Air, USA3000... etc etc etc. You name the place, there is a low fare carrier to take you to or FROM there.

The same should go for the auto industry and it WOULD. Inevitably, with the lack of the big three (and Ford has even declared that they might not even need to use the bailout money anyway), dozens of little fledgling auto companies would begin to sprout, unencumbered by the ages old UAW contracts, pension plans and healthcare problems currently weighing down the ANCIENT domestic auto industry that stands now. The worst part is the government handout isn't going to prevent what's coming anyway, it will simply prolong it, while putting the country even further in debt.

The three million jobs statement by the way, was commissioned by a thinktank that is funded by guess who... the auto industry. Jobs would certainly be lost, TONS of them, and that IS terrible, but however long it takes, the economy will recover and jobs WILL come back. That is the nature of things.

Submariner409
12-07-08, 08:44 PM
Bailout, loan, whatever. It will degenerate into a flat gift, no strings attached, because several corporations that were spending money like drunk sailors on liberty will have absolutely no way to repay a "loan" while still deep in red ink. The automakers, like the developers and realtors, have been living in an artificial bubble which has now burst. Big time. You, me, Jane, and Bob are now going to give the Big 3 a huge Christmas present. (Don't forget to let your elected representative know how happy you are that they know how to manage this country so well.........) Congress initially loosened the credit restraints and now it has all come home to roost.

Night Wolf
12-07-08, 08:51 PM
Why are you all so down on our car companies? Did the feds not bail out the airlines, a few years back ? Did the feds not give 700 billion - yes 700 billion to wall street? !! Most of you will not recall because there was no big deal over it, made, like this football tossed around. Is our domestic automobile industry not as important as out domestic airline industry ?

Kentucky... Totopet built a plant there, and got the state & the Feds to grant them 100% free taxation, until 2017. No School Tax, No Land Tax, No State Income Tax, no Earning Tax .... for 25 years, for their promise to build there and hire workers from that state! All upper management, supervisors, etc are flowen in from Japan, none are Americans....

Where were you then to holler?? Gm, Ford, Chrysler and all the rest pay taxes,
Totopet gets a break, for a quarter of a century ??? Scream about that, as you pay YOUR taxes !

If you think things a bad now, justy wait until Chrysler, Ford & GM go belly up, and all those workers are outta work, and the suppliers go out of business, and the dealerships close, and the new car carriers go out onto unemployment. The domino effect will be still felt in 6 years many have said.
Why are you all so down on the Auto industry and so forgiving on wall street & the airlines?

Only speaking for me, I am not in support of ANY Gov't bailout. Our Gov't was setup with very specific jobs to perform.... and if you look at it today, it has strayed so very far from what it was built on. Our Gov't was setup to simply protect the people and enforce federal laws. Some things our Gov't really shouldn't be responsible for would be things like.... healthcare, retirement, bailing out anybody etc... Whenever the Gov't gets involved with something it goes from already being a complicated and involved matter to extremely complicated, too involved, and now very inefficent.

Our Currency system is pretty much designed to fail, we print paper money from nothing... literally, this country dosen't have the assests to back up the money being printed. This was all part of the elastic currency that started with the federal reserve... the plan was for a currency that could be expaneded or shrunk based on the economey.... it is constantly expanding, all these bailouts... just pumping more paper dollars into the system without anything to back it up.... but when it was setup, it was designed to also contract.... to date, the currency has never once contracted since they started the elastic currency, for fear of what happened durring the great depression.... so instead we are gonna keep pumping more paper money out, de-value the dollar, some day all these countries that we owe money to will actually want it and we won't have anything to give..... unless we start pawning off our military assests, which looks to be a possibility...

It's alot of reading... but a good start would be to wikipedia "the federal reserve" as well as "fractional reserve banking" Once you start to read into it you really see how flawed the concepts are and why the mess we are in today is no surprise, and that it will not change for the better unless drastic changes that take place... that people will not like, cause it would have to get worse before it gets better.

If anything else, atleast it is a good start to reading up on stuff we deal with everyday, that people don't seem to care about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_reserve_banking

Anyway, it seems as I've strayed off topic...

Sandy
12-07-08, 09:41 PM
Rick, I totally & completely agree with every word you typed.
In theory you are 100%. But, the government DID error with
starting to do these bail-outs. Right or wrong, it's now history.
They should stop doing it. But, will they? I doubt it.
I would rather see them do it (ONCE) to try & help out an
industry so vital to us, as the automobile/truck industry.
I am not in favor of 'SECONDS to this here "dinner" !
IF IF IF It saves them, wonderful. if not, well we tired.
I just cannot imagine our country without Chrysler, Ford
and General Motors! Guess I'd buy a Isuzu SUV.
BTW, there's a dealer in NJ with about 12 brand new,
unsold, Isuzu SUVs (Ascender) by name. $10 thou
off MSRLP. But, they are 2007s.

Night Wolf
12-07-08, 10:10 PM
Rick, I totally & completely agree with every word you typed.
In theory you are 100%. But, the government DID error with
starting to do these bail-outs. Right or wrong, it's now history.
They should stop doing it. But, will they? I doubt it.
I would rather see them do it (ONCE) to try & help out an
industry so vital to us, as the automobile/truck industry.
I am not in favor of 'SECONDS to this here "dinner" !
IF IF IF It saves them, wonderful. if not, well we tired.
I just cannot imagine our country without Chrysler, Ford
and General Motors! Guess I'd buy a Isuzu SUV.
BTW, there's a dealer in NJ with about 12 brand new,
unsold, Isuzu SUVs (Ascender) by name. $10 thou
off MSRLP. But, they are 2007s.

I don't know if you'll still want Isuzu... eariler this year GM sold it's shares of the company and last I heard Toyota now owns a large poriton.

There is a dealer in Columbus and (I think) Atlanta here in GA. Still tho, the Ascender is nothing but a rebadged GM, the I-seires/Colorado/Canyon is joint Isuzu/GM (Isuzu chassic, GM drivetrain) as is the H3. Duramax is also joint.

Really all the real, and cool/good Isuzu's are not sold in the US... kind of a shame, as they have simplely excellent, real truck/suv products with very nice engine (many types of diesel) offerings.

Personally I wouldn't waste my time with any of the "new" Isuzu's sold here in the US, unless you just really like the GM offering but want it cheaper.... all the real Isuzu's are no longer made, or atleast sold here... Rodeo, Amigo/Rodeo Sport, Trooper, Axiom, Vehi-CROSS etc... They were purpose built for actual off-road use, people wanted the tuff look with a Cadillac ride, and that is why they fell short here over the years.... just about any other country, especially those not as developed and Isuzu trucks/suvs are some of the best modes of transportation out there.