: I feel a slight knocking in steering wheel



obxdiver
12-05-08, 10:02 PM
Hi Everyone
I am new here, this is my first post.
As of today, I am the proud owner of an 2005 Escalade ESV Platinum.
64,000 miles on her
I have never driven an Escalade until today. I also have never driven an AWD vehicle, so what I am about to describe may be normal. If so, am am happy. If not I will be bummed out.
It seems that when I turn left or right, while driving slow, like throughout a nieghborhood, I feel a slight knocking in the steering wheel. It seems to stop when I straiten it out. I don't feel anything when I go over bumps in the road or potholes. This feels tight as a drum. Only when I put some left or right turning pressure on the wheel do I feel this.
Is this the AWD I feel, or do you think something is loose in the steering system?

I am a former Yukon Denali owner, but it did not have AWD.
This Escalade is a major step up from my Denali. I love this thing so far.

Thanks for any info someone could pass on

Steve in VA.

shore
12-06-08, 07:54 AM
I got bad news for you.That sounds like a front differential problem.usualyy whe they start making noise they need to be rebuilt.I would at a minimum change the front diff fluid and like right now.

obxdiver
12-06-08, 12:37 PM
Thanks for the reply
That is not the answer I was hoping for!
I was planning on putting Mobil 1 in the front/read differentials and in the transfer case.
Can you tell me which viscosity and amounts to put in each differential?

Cirefly
12-06-08, 04:59 PM
Hi Everyone
I am new here, this is my first post.
As of today, I am the proud owner of an 2005 Escalade ESV Platinum.
64,000 miles on her
I have never driven an Escalade until today. I also have never driven an AWD vehicle, so what I am about to describe may be normal. If so, am am happy. If not I will be bummed out.
It seems that when I turn left or right, while driving slow, like throughout a nieghborhood, I feel a slight knocking in the steering wheel. It seems to stop when I straiten it out. I don't feel anything when I go over bumps in the road or potholes. This feels tight as a drum. Only when I put some left or right turning pressure on the wheel do I feel this.
Is this the AWD I feel, or do you think something is loose in the steering system?

I am a former Yukon Denali owner, but it did not have AWD.
This Escalade is a major step up from my Denali. I love this thing so far.

Thanks for any info someone could pass on

Steve in VA.

Steve,

I'm a dealer and drive these at the auction almost weekly. I don't believe I've ever driven an '02-'06 model and not noticed this in some capacity.

I own an '03 ESV and my father has an '04. We both have the exact same thing. I don't subscribe to the hysteria about it. But then again, I don't go under the hood looking for problems, that's how you drain money from your wallet. You can always find something to improve or make new again but that seems foolish. I only fix stuff when it's broken. Again, that's just me.

The truth is we aren't driving new cars. We knew that going in. It's not going to feel like it just rolled off the lot, ever. Once you succumb to that realization you can get back to enjoying your Escalade :)

All that being said, do you hear a differential hum when going 35-45? Listen carefully at those speeds and let your foot off the gas, then reapply, then let off. Hear a dull roar? I'm assuming you will, it's pretty common. Time to service the differential.

It's easy. Don't take it to the dealer either, it's a joke. Get a thick oil and change it yourself. Takes about 2 quarts and 15 minutes of your time. Cost me less than $30 to do it myself. I personally put Lucas Oil Stablizer at full strength which is about as thick as honey. A little drastic probably but it works to mute some of that differential hum. The fluid that I drained out of mine was thin, almost watery (it was way overdue).

It might not go away completely but it should help. At least you'll know you've got good fluid in there which should give you peace of mind since you just bought the rig. It's not a bad idea to go get the tranny, transfer case and rear differential serviced too. I was just quoted $165 to do all 3 from the best guy in town which I plan on doing this week - too good of a deal to pass up.

I believe there's a killer tutorial on how to change the front differential fluid somewhere on the forum (maybe a sticky, even) - do a search for it. Good luck Steve!

Cirefly
12-06-08, 05:04 PM
Also, check this thread (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-escalade-ext-esv-forum-1999/155305-weird-issue-play-steering-wheel.html). I had asked about this recently and someone gave a TSB regarding it.

Shore responded above and said it sounds like the differential. That doesn't make much sense to me but...maybe...who knows, I'm not a mechanic.

The thread I linked to above mentions something different which sounds more likely. Anyway...give it a read.

obxdiver
12-06-08, 06:35 PM
Cirefly
I want to thank you very much for the very nice detailed reply. That is what is so great about forums like these.
After I read the reply from "shore" to my original post, I immediately went and bought 3 qts of Mobil 1 75W90 and changed the fluid in the front diff.
The old oil was very dark and thin looking. There was a lot of metal shavings on the magnetic tip of the drain plug. It looked about like the pictures from that sticky thread.
I also found 2 grease fittings that I hit with Mobil 1 grease. Are there more than just these 2?
I also drained the transfer case and refilled with GM Transfer Case fluid. (Black jug with a blue label)
I did not have enough 75W90 to do the read diff yet. I will do that in the next few days.

After doing all of this today, there was no change.
I do not hear the hum you speak about, but will try again to hear it at those specific speeds.
If i turn down the radio, I can also hear a slight "clunking" in the steering wheel as I make gradual slow turns and also feel it in the steering wheel.

Thanks again for the help Cirefly:thumbsup:

Steve

Cirefly
12-07-08, 02:52 AM
Cirefly
I want to thank you very much for the very nice detailed reply. That is what is so great about forums like these.
After I read the reply from "shore" to my original post, I immediately went and bought 3 qts of Mobil 1 75W90 and changed the fluid in the front diff.
The old oil was very dark and thin looking. There was a lot of metal shavings on the magnetic tip of the drain plug. It looked about like the pictures from that sticky thread.
I also found 2 grease fittings that I hit with Mobil 1 grease. Are there more than just these 2?
I also drained the transfer case and refilled with GM Transfer Case fluid. (Black jug with a blue label)
I did not have enough 75W90 to do the read diff yet. I will do that in the next few days.

After doing all of this today, there was no change.
I do not hear the hum you speak about, but will try again to hear it at those specific speeds.
If i turn down the radio, I can also hear a slight "clunking" in the steering wheel as I make gradual slow turns and also feel it in the steering wheel.

Thanks again for the help Cirefly:thumbsup:

Steve

Again as I said, I don't believe this steering wheel 'klunk' has any relationship to the differential so I'm not the least bit surprised that you weren't able to fix it with simple fluid changes.

I think the TSB noted in the post I linked you too is a much more likely cause. I really don't think it's a big deal and since I notice it on almost every Escalade I drive I've learned to ignore it/live with it.

If you don't hear the hum you're already ahead of the game. Changing your fluid is always a good idea and since it's such an easy project and so inexpensive it doesn't hurt to do it more often than recommended.

As you cleaned off the metal shavings from the drain plug did you notice if they were more powdery or chunky? Truth be told a lot of those probably came off when the car was brand new as everything settled into place and wore off tiny variances - that's the powdery stuff. If you have a big problem it will be more chunky and 'shaving' like instead of just built up powder. In any case, kudos on getting the fluids changed so quickly. Cars are built to last these days but only if the owner takes care of 'em. I've got 137k on my ESV and it runs like a top, sans the steering wheel knock, of course.

obxdiver
12-24-08, 05:40 AM
I want to update this issue.
To recap, I am the new owner of an 05 Escalade ESV with 64000 miles with NO WARRANTY.
I took the truck to a Caddy dealer to fix the clunck in the steering wheel expecting to pay out the ying-yang for it.
I showed the service manager the below TSB info.
He told me Cadillac will cover this under warranty now since so many of them needed it done.:thumbsup:
After the repairs, the difference is night and day for my truck. I could feel the difference before I left the dealers parking lot.
I am a happy camper now.

If you feel and/or hear a slight knocking in the steering wheel when you are driving slow and turning on rough pavement, then you have the issue also.
I would take your truck to a local Caddy dealer with the below TSB info in hand and ask them to call Cadillac and request to have it fixed under warranty.
That is what my Caddy dealer did and they approved it.

This is a new TSB with an "M" on the end.
This M signifies a new designed shaft that is a permanent fix.

Here is the TSB Info.

Steering - Clunking Noises Felt in Steering Wheel
Bulletin No.: 00-02-35-003M
Date: January 31, 2007
TECHNICAL
Subject:
Clunking Noise Under Hood and Can Be Felt in Steering Wheel and/or Steering Column (Replace Upper Intermediate Steering Shaft [I-Shaft] Assembly)
GM p/n 19153614.

Models:
2002-2006 Cadillac Escalade Models
1999-2007 Chevrolet Silverado Models (Classic)
2000-2006 Chevrolet Suburban, Tahoe Models
2002-2006 Chevrolet Avalanche
1999-2007 GMC Sierra Models (Classic)
2000-2006 GMC Yukon, Yukon XL Models
2003-2006 HUMMER H2

This bulletin is being revised to update the repair procedure with a permanent fix. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 00-02-35-003L (Section 02 - Steering).
Condition
Some customers may comment on a clunk-type noise coming from under the hood that also can be felt in the steering wheel. These conditions may be more noticeable when turning at low speeds on rough road surfaces
Diagnostic Tips
Use the information below to help diagnose the source of the noise.
Frame Snap and/or Popping Type Noise - A frame snap or popping type noise can be duplicated on rough or smooth road surfaces with steering wheel input to the left or the right. This type of noise can be HEARD and is typically louder with the windows rolled down. For additional information, refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 03-08-61-002F or newer - Snap/Popping Type Noise Coming from Front of Vehicle (Remove Front Crossmember, Change Fastener Orientation).
Intermediate Shaft Clunk - Intermediate shaft clunk is heard and FELT in the steering wheel and/or steering column area, typically while driving on rough road surfaces with steering wheel input.
Correction
I-shaft P/N 19153614 has been designed to replace previous designed dampened and non-dampened I-shafts. The physical difference in the yoke size will accommodate all vehicles listed in this bulletin.
Due to the design of the new I-shaft, it is not possible to lubricate/grease the I-shaft.

g9s8r
12-24-08, 12:20 PM
That is sweet. I was just figuring that I would deal with it. If the dealer will cover this I am going in and talking to them!! THANKS!! :bouncy:

Guyz1996deville
01-02-09, 01:35 PM
CireFly good write up:)

One thing that you could check out on the front is the recall on the Intermediet steering shaft. There was a service bulitin for stroking the shaft. There was also an updated shaft that was released. Get it done under Cadillac's tab. A Whine in the front end is a little inevitable, being the nature of a helical gear. I have a whine at 40 on my rebuilt Diff. I think the spacing is absolutly crucial on AWD trucks expecially. Change out the fluid first and foremost. General maintanance it crucial to know where you are at, and to familiarize you with your truck. There is never a race though. Take your time and research and plan for what it best. I learned the hard way back in the day. Transmission flush on a 4t80E:( Never again!!!!

obxdiver
01-02-09, 06:47 PM
CireFly good write up:)

One thing that you could check out on the front is the recall on the Intermediet steering shaft. There was a service bulitin for stroking the shaft. There was also an updated shaft that was released. Get it done under Cadillac's tab.
I did. As I wrote in the previous post just above (POST #8 (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/1717387-post8.html). Caddi paid the bill and the knock is completely gone now.

Cirefly
01-03-09, 02:20 PM
I have 138k on my '03 - will it still be covered?

obxdiver
01-03-09, 02:30 PM
I have 138k on my '03 - will it still be covered?
I would take the TSB info to your nearest Caddi dealer and tell them to call Cadillac and ask for approval to cover it under warranty.
Tell them that the cluncking has gone on for years and others are getting it fixed for free.
It only took then 2 hours to do the job and the new shaft is only ~$90.00
So even if it is not covered, it is worth it to have it fixed. It was a major difference in the feeling of the truck for me.

whosurpopi
03-19-09, 03:51 PM
I printed the service bulletin in your post, took it to the cadi dealer, and he said NO. I asked him if he could call cadi, and again he said NO. If I wanted to I could call myself. He put the vin number in the computer and said all recall work was up to date, and a service bulletin was Not a recall. I hate going to the dealer.

bstiffmanofsteel
03-19-09, 09:47 PM
This is a really good thread! You talk about the problem, get a few suggestions and actually came back with the answer. Great job. If only everyone finished their threads...

whosurpopi
03-24-09, 09:02 PM
I called gm, the guy told me to take it to the dealer on my dime to get it diognosed, then we will go over the problem and see if they will cover it. Well I took it to the dealer today. They charged me $60 to tell me the intermediat shaft was bad again. My truck is an 04 with 41k miles. It turns out in 09 of 06 the shaft was already replaced once under warranty. But there is not a defect with this design. (That was sarcastic).

obxdiver
03-24-09, 09:08 PM
Man that really blows.
I guess I got lucky when my local dealer fixed mine under warranty.

whosurpopi
03-26-09, 08:54 PM
It gets better. Some guy from gm calls today and advises me that although my car does have low miles, and this did have the same problem before, that I dont have a warranty on my truck, so its not covered. No shit. So basically they got me to go in and spend $60 so they can tell me its not covered. I then reminded him that this is a problem a lot of escalade owners are having, including my truck two years ago. He then tells me that the part came with a one year warranty, and that expired. I think if they had no intention of covering it, making me go get it diognosed at my expense was an awful policy. I am very disappointed in GM today.

obxdiver
03-27-09, 05:56 AM
I don't know if this makes any difference for mine, but when member "lusterblade" ran my VIN number in THIS THREAD (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2004/119774-vin-checks-here-read-first-post-111.html#post1715715), it shows the below warranty info.
See the RED bold entry.
The previous owner may have purchased a "VPP" warranty, what ever that is.
You can also see that my steering shaft was previously replaced also.


2005 ESCALADE ESV PLATINUM

APPLICABLE WARRANTIES
Description Effective Date Effective Odometer End Date End Odometer
48/50000 BUMPER TO BUMPER LIMITED WARRANTY 04/22/2005 217 miles 04/22/2009 50217 miles
72/UNLIMITED SHEET METAL COVERAGE RUST THROUGH LIMITED WARRANTY 04/22/2005 217 miles 04/22/2011 Unlimited miles
96/80000 FEDERAL EMISSION CATALYTIC CONV. AND PCM 04/22/2005 217 miles 04/22/2013 80217 miles
48/50000 FEDERAL EMISSION 04/22/2005 217 miles 04/22/2009 50217 miles
36/150000 PROFESSIONAL VPP LIMITED WARRANTY ($ 50 DEDUCTIBLE) 04/22/2005 217 miles 04/22/2008 150217 miles

CLAIM HISTORY
R.O Date R.O Number Type Labor Operation Odometer Reading
10/02/2008 036423 B N4180 - INSTRUMENT CLUSTER REPLACEMENT 63226 miles
09/30/2008 036379 # N4180 - INSTRUMENT CLUSTER REPLACEMENT 63226 miles
09/29/2008 036340 # N4187 - INSTRUMENT CLUSTER-ASSEMBLY RETURN TO AC DELCO ESC 63226 miles
10/26/2007 029730 # L1020 - CAP, FUEL TANK - REPLACE 48732 miles
11/03/2006 022361 # C6150 - HANDLE, SEAT ADJUSTER - REPLACE 32434 miles
11/03/2006 022361 # C2684 - LENS, LAMP INTERIOR AND/OR REAR COMPARTMENT - REPLACE 32434 miles
10/04/2006 021771 # B9612 - FRONT FOG LAMP REPLACEMENT - RIGHT SIDE 31156 miles
10/04/2006 021771 # E7700 - SHAFT, STEERING INTERMEDIATE - REPLACE 31156 miles
10/04/2006 021771 # B9613 - FRONT FOG LAMP REPLACEMENT - LEFT SIDE 31156 miles
02/02/2005 538495 I Z6999 - PDI RELATED FLUID ADDS 1 miles
12/24/2004 A99418 I Z7000 - PRE-DELIVERY INSPECTION - BASE TIME 0 miles

whosurpopi
03-27-09, 03:45 PM
But even with your extra warranty, it was still expired. I think you got lucky and I didnt. No biggie, just wish they would have been up front with me about not covering it so I wouldnt have wasted the $60. They want $315 to do the job, and I am thinking about it. When the guy put it back together, he repacked it and it doesnt make the noise any more, but he said it is wore out, and the noise will come back after the grease separates.

obxdiver
03-27-09, 03:56 PM
But even with your extra warranty, it was still expired. I think you got lucky and I didnt. No biggie
Yes it was far expired.
I had 63,000 on the truck when the repair was done.

g9s8r
04-27-09, 09:45 PM
But even with your extra warranty, it was still expired. I think you got lucky and I didnt. No biggie, just wish they would have been up front with me about not covering it so I wouldnt have wasted the $60. They want $315 to do the job, and I am thinking about it. When the guy put it back together, he repacked it and it doesnt make the noise any more, but he said it is wore out, and the noise will come back after the grease separates.

I would approach them in a "feel sorry for me" way. Tell them you want to get it fixed and that you just paid 60 to diagnose the problem which you already knew. See if you can convince them to put the 60 towards the 315. Just a suggestion. I have to hit the dealership about mine as well.

T-Giv
09-06-09, 02:33 PM
My knock has gotten more and more noticeable. I don't even know that I want to bother trying to deal with my dealership though, they are usually worthless when it comes to things like this. :(

bigputzars
09-22-09, 04:16 AM
I have the same problem on my 03 ext which is at about 72000 I do have an extended warranty that has paid out for a ton of repairs on my truck one being having the front diff redone but only replacing the bearings with new ones and not replacing the ring and pinion gear but only retorquing it... the hum noise did go away though! but I do have a knock in my steering wheel only when i am either going forward on a right or left turn slowly or when reversing and turning the wheel slowly to the right or left as i reverse .. i wonder if my ext warranty company will cover this ?

T-Giv
09-22-09, 05:33 PM
I used to never notice my knock until reading a thread similar to this one, now it bothers my balls off everytime I drive my truck. :( I need to try and zone it out.

MDecker
10-03-09, 03:14 AM
I had this problem on my 06 ESV I didn't know what to call it so i just described it to the dealer and he said he knew what I was talking about and covered it under warranty

T-Giv
10-22-09, 02:16 PM
I just called my dealer and he said that he knew what I was talking about but that it would not be covered under warranty in any way. They want a few hundred bucks to do the job. How did you guys get your dealers to take care of it? My dealership also wanted $400 to flush the diffs and t-case. I laughed at him. I got another shop to do them for $180. Dealerships are such a joke.

ESCALADOR
10-22-09, 02:50 PM
I just called my dealer and he said that he knew what I was talking about but that it would not be covered under warranty in any way.

If you have a warranty than it is covered...how can they say it is not? I would fight this one if I were you.

I had the same problem in my '05 at 60k, I had the extended warranty and my Caddy dealer covered it no questins asked. Moore Caddy in Chantilly, VA. I have had nothing but great experiences with these folks!:thumbsup:

And, BTW get it fixed your truck feels brand new again. That knock drove me CRAZY!!

T-Giv
10-23-09, 12:34 AM
Good news! I called another dealership about an hour away and he took care of me. He charged me 100 bucks to replace the shaft and you weren't kidding the truck feels night and day different! I'm so pumped! So glad I didn't have to shell out a tremendous amount of cash either.

ewill3rd
10-23-09, 08:38 AM
This is a "TSB" or bulletin, not a Recall.
It is a known issue yes, the bulletin is for information not an expression of liability.
It is just a noise, it won't kill you, it won't break, it is just annoying.

Notice the TSB number ends in an M, this bulletin has been revised so many times I have lost count.
I discovered this on my own on a '99 Silverado before they even came out with the bulletin and went round and round with GM every time they changed it.

If you are a regular service customer and/or you bought your vehicle at your local dealership they MIGHT goodwill it for you.
The dealer is under no obligation to do it for free.
It isn't too expensive of a repair if it really bugs you just pay for it. Vehicle ownership comes with a responsibility to maintain the vehicle and that costs money.
If someone can't afford to repair their car they should probably sell it and start using public transportation. ;)

VPP is a commercial vehicle warranty contract. Many places purchase these vehicles to use in limousine services etc and they get a VPP contract.

I think the current version of the TSB calls for a new intermediate shaft.

obxdiver
10-29-09, 05:57 AM
It has been several months since I started this thread. Almost a year.
Yes, I got a brand new shaft for mine.
It was performed at the same dealership the vehicle was purchased at.
It still feels like new with no knocking at all.

Ghost Deany
10-29-09, 05:28 PM
so what is the fix again? a new intermediate shaft? i have the same thing i think, but it never really bothered me enough to look into it. what does it cost at the dealer with no warranty?

T-Giv
10-29-09, 08:42 PM
It depends on the dealer. I was able to get mine done for $100. Originally they wanted 5 bills to do it.

obxdiver
10-30-09, 06:10 AM
so what is the fix again? a new intermediate shaft?

Yes. But this is discussed and described with great detail in this thread. Take some time to start reading from page 1 post 1.

tclark828
11-02-09, 10:51 AM
Does anyone know about how much this would cost to get fixed at a non dealer shop?

oldworld
11-02-09, 09:57 PM
I gotta stop reading these posts as I always seem to "inherit" the listed issues after reading them lol
Anyway, I have noticed that when I turn the wheel HARD to the left (all the way), I do feel and hear shimmy and dull clunk...
Not noticed though when doing the same all the way to the right.
Is this the same as what is described in this thread???
Does it vet worse over time? My truvk is still under warranty for another year or so, and if this is the shaft as described, I need to look into while still covered.
THANKS

Birdbrain
11-03-09, 01:23 AM
I had mine replaced two weeks ago. It cost about $325.00 (CDN) and although it was somewhat better there was still a knock in the column. Took it back today and they (Dealer) had to put 4 new shafts in until they got one that didn't knock! You can draw your own conclusions! (I really appreciate that they didn't give up until it was quiet!) Let's hope this one stays tight.

fst96se
11-03-09, 10:38 AM
Called the local dealer on this, and he said it is not covered at all by GM unless I was within the factory warranty period... However, the repair is only $185. Thinking about doing this, as the problem seems more apparent with the 24s I just put on.

Ghost Deany
12-03-09, 03:01 PM
went to the dealer and bought the intermediate shaft and installed it myself. the knocking in my steering wheel is GONE with the updated shaft. took all of a half hour.

Eldo1953
12-03-09, 07:57 PM
Yes updated shaft installed and the clunk is gone for me as well.

Ghost Deany
12-04-09, 11:29 PM
i advise all the DIYers out there who are annoyed by the knocks in they're wheel, to race out and buy the i shaft them self and replace it themselves! a half hour repair and pretty simple if your mechanically inclined!