: House leader says Detroit CEOs should be fired



Lord Cadillac
12-01-08, 06:38 PM
On the eve of Detroit’s day of reckoning with the United States government, House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn, a South Carolina Democrat, said that the future of the auto industry was up to him, the CEOs of Chrysler LLC, Ford Motor Company and General Motors would be fired.

“If I had my way, all three of those guys would be in the unemployment line and I think that ought to be one of the conditions for us doing this,” Clyburn told reporters at a press conference earlier today. “They need to be giving up their jobs, not just their packages.”

Read more... (http://www.leftlanenews.com/house-leader-says-detroit-ceos-should-be-fired.html)

Spittin Game
12-01-08, 08:30 PM
I agree 100%

hueterm
12-01-08, 08:53 PM
The problem is, whoever the perennial Congressional losers (from both parties) would pick would be no better. "CAR GUYS/GALS" need to run the big three. Not environmentalists, not bean counters, not politicians.

While I think the pics of the CTS Coupe (more so the comparisons to it being the next Eldorado) are lacking and the production Volt is boring compared to the concept -- promote GM's design chief to CEO. If he can design the CTS and the Enclave, he can run rings around the current mgmt.

Mullally (sp?) is a turnaround guy -- he might be able to swing it (and Ford's design team should be waterboarded for some of their atrocities so you don't really want to go there).

Chrysler, who knows.....they are so hit and miss, it's insane.

The Tony Show
12-01-08, 08:57 PM
The leaders of a Bankrupt country who passed the legislation and budgets that got us here are now calling for the firing of the companies that are struggling as a result of the collapsing American economy?

Oh, the iron knee. This would be funny if it weren't so F***ing infuriating.

FrankT
12-01-08, 09:35 PM
:thumbsup: Tony, I couldn't say it any better than that! Thanks!

LS1Mike
12-01-08, 09:41 PM
The leaders of a Bankrupt country who passed the legislation and budgets that got us here are now calling for the firing of the companies that are struggling as a result of the collapsing American economy?

Oh, the iron knee. This would be funny if it weren't so F***ing infuriating.

Very good Tony!

Spittin Game
12-01-08, 09:46 PM
The leaders of a Bankrupt country who passed the legislation and budgets that got us here are now calling for the firing of the companies that are struggling as a result of the collapsing American economy?

Oh, the iron knee. This would be funny if it weren't so F***ing infuriating.

I dont see Toyota asking for bailouts...Why is it that the big 3 American companies can't keep themselves out of BK?

Ranger
12-01-08, 09:47 PM
What more would you expect from the Elite Congressional Hypocrites

Ranger
12-01-08, 09:50 PM
I dont see Toyota asking for bailouts...Why is it that the big 3 American companies can't keep themselves out of BK?
You must be kidding. Toyota joined the game LONG after the "American" car makers built the stadium. They have pension and health costs for their employees that Yota doesn't give their employees. The playing field is not level.

LS1Mike
12-01-08, 10:19 PM
I dont see Toyota asking for bailouts...Why is it that the big 3 American companies can't keep themselves out of BK?

I hope they would be asking JAPAN if they needed one.
Not to mention ports are filling up right now with imports that are not selling either.
http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20081119/ZNYT01/811193019/-1/NEWS231?Title=A_Sea_of_Unwanted_Imports
They just happen to be in a better position economically right now.

c5 rv
12-01-08, 10:48 PM
For decades, sociologists have been predicting the coming of post-industrial society in America. They may get their wish. Heaven help us.

lawfive
12-01-08, 11:52 PM
“If I had my way, all three of those guys would be in the unemployment line and I think that ought to be one of the conditions for us doing this,” Clyburn told reporters at a press conference earlier today. “They need to be giving up their jobs, not just their packages.”

Jesus Christ, their packages??? :eek: What is this, the Spanish Inquisition?

The Tony Show
12-02-08, 12:07 AM
lawlz @ Jerry. :lol:

lawfive
12-02-08, 12:49 AM
I need to change my avatar but I just can't bring myself to do it. Loved. That. Game.

Jesda
12-02-08, 01:06 AM
Chrysler, to me, died in 1998.

Spittin Game
12-02-08, 01:39 AM
You must be kidding. Toyota joined the game LONG after the "American" car makers built the stadium. They have pension and health costs for their employees that Yota doesn't give their employees. The playing field is not level.


I hope they would be asking JAPAN if they needed one.
Not to mention ports are filling up right now with imports that are not selling either.
http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20081119/ZNYT01/811193019/-1/NEWS231?Title=A_Sea_of_Unwanted_Imports
They just happen to be in a better position economically right now.

Why arent they in BK just like the others then? Why do they never have to offer the kind of incentives that the big 3 offer, but yet they still sell more cars? I mean the economy is screwed we all know that, your all blaming the economy on the Big 3 going into BK. Obviously no one is selling cars like they used to, but it seems as if its only the American car makers that are hurting the worst.

If you owned a company and someone ran it into the ground, would you keep them on your payroll with that nice cush salary and all those bonuses they get? Why the hell are they getting all these bonuses when the company is going BK? Doesnt make sense to me.

LS1Mike
12-02-08, 02:39 AM
Why arent they in BK just like the others then? Why do they never have to offer the kind of incentives that the big 3 offer, but yet they still sell more cars? I mean the economy is screwed we all know that, your all blaming the economy on the Big 3 going into BK. Obviously no one is selling cars like they used to, but it seems as if its only the American car makers that are hurting the worst.

If you owned a company and someone ran it into the ground, would you keep them on your payroll with that nice cush salary and all those bonuses they get? Why the hell are they getting all these bonuses when the company is going BK? Doesnt make sense to me.

Where are living at man? Turn on the TV all of them are offering incentives right now. Even before this.

Spittin Game
12-02-08, 02:44 AM
Where are living at man? Turn on the TV all of them are offering incentives right now. Even before this.

Did I say they werent offering incentives? NO, I said they have never offered anything like the Big 3 have. You ever seen Toyota offering 0% for 72 whole months??? Dont think so. You ever seen them offering HUGE discounts on the whole product line? Dont think so. But yet they still sell more. Explain to me why that is, they are both selling cars in the same economy, yet one outsells the other every single time.

The Tony Show
12-02-08, 09:35 AM
-GM still sells more cars than Toyota.
-Both Toyota and Nissan are currently offering 0% or huge discounts on their entire lineup.
-Both GM and Ford were knee deep in restructuring plans and moving toward profitability before the economy collapsed for reasons beyond their control.

If you're going to join the discussion, try to have at least ONE of your facts straight.

FrankT
12-02-08, 09:36 AM
This is what the big 3 did durning our 9/11

I hope it hasn't been posted before!

Ford, Chrysler and GM's contributions after 9/11



Ford, Chrysler and GM's contributions after 9/11
An interesting commentary...You might find this of interest:

'CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's
contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington.

The findings are as follows.....

1. Ford- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions
of the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also
offered ER response team services and office space to displaced government employees.

2. GM- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of
the same number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks.

3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims of
the Sept. 11 attack.

4. Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the
New York Police Dept.

5. Volkswagen-Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation,
funded initial with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and
victims of the WTC.

6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.

7. Audi-Nothing.
8. BMW-Nothing.
9. Daewoo- Nothing.
10. Fiat-Nothing.
11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in August 2001
12. Isuzu- Nothing.
13. Mitsubishi-Nothing.
14. Nissan-Nothing.
15. Porsche-Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche website.
16. Subaru- Nothing.
17. Suzuki- Nothing.
18. Toyota-Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001.
Condolences posted on the website

Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep
this information in mind. You might want to give more consideration to a car manufactured by an American-owned and / or American based company. Apart
from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed nothing
at all to the citizens of the United States ... It's OK for these companies to take money out of this country, but it is apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis.

I believe we should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets their

Sandy
12-02-08, 10:02 AM
BULLSEYE, TONY !!! SO FEW WORDS AND WRAPS IT UP AND PUTS A BOW ON IT! BTW, "F" THE TOYOPETS, honDUHS & PISSONS/

LS1Mike
12-02-08, 01:57 PM
-GM still sells more cars than Toyota.
-Both Toyota and Nissan are currently offering 0% or huge discounts on their entire lineup.
-Both GM and Ford were knee deep in restructuring plans and moving toward profitability before the economy collapsed for reasons beyond their control.

If you're going to join the discussion, try to have at least ONE of your facts straight.

Tony on the ball again. :thumbsup:

Spittin Game
12-02-08, 04:07 PM
-GM still sells more cars than Toyota.
-Both Toyota and Nissan are currently offering 0% or huge discounts on their entire lineup.
-Both GM and Ford were knee deep in restructuring plans and moving toward profitability before the economy collapsed for reasons beyond their control.

If you're going to join the discussion, try to have at least ONE of your facts straight.

GM as a whole company yes, take each one compared with toyota, no. Oh lets see here, 13 (THIRTEEN) different car makers in the GM family, I sure as hell would expect those 13 DIFFERENT car companies to outsell one lowly Toyota group made up of a whole 3 different car brands.

And yes they are offering Discounts and 0% up to a whole 36 months. But when have they EVER had to offer 0% for 72 months ACROSS THE WHOLE PRODUCT LINE to attract buyers? When have they EVER offered discounts as steep as GM has ACROSS THE WHOLE PRODUCT LINE? Never. And Toyota has NEVER offered Employee pricing, how many times have we seen that with the Big 3?

So your blaming the economy once again...Why is Toyota not in BK then also? They dont have 13 brands to help them sell...

Submariner409
12-02-08, 04:10 PM
Somebody do some homework and verify yes/no that it's against Japanese law for a Japanese flagged or contract car carrier vessel to return to Japan with American made or sourced goods as cargo.

The Tony Show
12-02-08, 04:17 PM
*sigh*

Here's a little education for you:

Toyota sells tons of cars in their home country as well as here. The Japanese Government practices protectionism by forcing outrageous taxes on imported Autos, thus making a CTS the equivalent of $80,000 in Japan and destroying it as a contender to their homegrown brand. There have also long been rumors of collusion between the Japanese Government and Toyota, but due to the secretive way the Japanese Karetsu operate, we'll never know how deep in Toyota's pocket their Government really is.

As far as the incentives, years of idiots harping on factually incorrect arguments to their friends and on Internet message boards have created the Anti-Domestic fervor that currently grips this country, despite the advances in safety, efficiency, resale value and quality that the Big 3 have made in the past decade. The "13 brand" argument is silly: Because they end up competing with themselves that can be considered as a detriment rather than a boon, not to mention the advertising budget of 13 brands versus 3. Use your head, man.

To your final point- YES, I am "blaming" the economy. All three of the Detroit automakers have been restructuring and buying out contracts to streamline their business. GM has been scaling back rebates slowly over the last 4 years at a pace that wasn't immediately noticeable, but had to be done slowly due to the public's expectations of a "deal" on American iron. Another 4 years and they would have been all but gone. Sales were on an increase, and so were product reviews and public perception.

These loans would not have been necessary if it weren't for the collapse of the housing market and the subsequent economic disaster. Unless you can show me how GM and Ford are responsible for the failures of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, I suggest you find a different approach to this topic.

Coma
12-02-08, 04:44 PM
That was some very interesting information, Tony.

Spittin Game
12-02-08, 04:46 PM
*sigh*

Here's a little education for you:

Toyota sells tons of cars in their home country as well as here. The Japanese Government practices protectionism by forcing outrageous taxes on imported Autos, thus making a CTS the equivalent of $80,000 in Japan and destroying it as a contender to their homegrown brand. There have also long been rumors of collusion between the Japanese Government and Toyota, but due to the secretive way the Japanese Karetsu operate, we'll never know how deep in Toyota's pocket their Government really is.

As far as the incentives, years of idiots harping on factually incorrect arguments to their friends and on Internet message boards have created the Anti-Domestic fervor that currently grips this country, despite the advances in safety, efficiency, resale value and quality that the Big 3 have made in the past decade. The "13 brand" argument is silly: Because they end up competing with themselves that can be considered as a detriment rather than a boon, not to mention the advertising budget of 13 brands versus 3. Use your head, man.

To your final point- YES, I am "blaming" the economy. All three of the Detroit automakers have been restructuring and buying out contracts to streamline their business. GM has been scaling back rebates slowly over the last 4 years at a pace that wasn't immediately noticeable, but had to be done slowly due to the public's expectations of a "deal" on American iron. Another 4 years and they would have been all but gone. Sales were on an increase, and so were product reviews and public perception.

These loans would not have been necessary if it weren't for the collapse of the housing market and the subsequent economic disaster. Unless you can show me how GM and Ford are responsible for the failures of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, I suggest you find a different approach to this topic.

You can sigh all you want. All your doing is making excuses for GM once again.

And the Big 3 have been offering this 0% for a very long time, this is not something new for them. While it is something new for Toyota, but they have never gone over 36 months, GM consistantly goes 72 months 0%. So that argument holds no water. And please explain to me why Toyota hasnt had to offer 0% until recenty? All you do is make excuses for GM.

You say they compete against each other? Take the Toyota and GM Luxury Brands and lets talk about sales and incentives...Lexus vs Cadillac. Lets see here, you could have bought a Caddy for 0% up to 72 months or on Employee Pricing, a Lexus though, not even close to those rates/incentives...Who outsells who? Guess what Tony, your not gonna like this, but its Lexus.

Keep Digging Tony. The fact of the matter is that GM is run like shit, and their Execs should be fired.

I dont see how people can make excuses for them. The companies have been going downhill for how long now? If you owned a business and your managers were losing you money, would you keep paying them ridiculous amounts of money? I know I wouldnt.

The Tony Show
12-02-08, 05:29 PM
And please explain to me why Toyota hasnt had to offer 0% until recenty?

Umm....because the current economic situation is affecting everyone, not just GM? The fact that even your mighty and wonderful Toyota has had to resort to 0% and the "Toyotathon of Toyotathons" (their term, not mine) perfectly proves my argument that GM's current dire situation is largely the result of the housing collapse, not their own doing. So....thank you for agreeing with me.


You say they compete against each other? Take the Toyota and GM Luxury Brands and lets talk about sales and incentives...Lexus vs Cadillac. Lets see here, you could have bought a Caddy for 0% up to 72 months or on Employee Pricing, a Lexus though, not even close to those rates/incentives...Who outsells who? Guess what Tony, your not gonna like this, but its Lexus.

That whole paragraph has nothing to do with what I said. My point was that Cadillac competes against Buick and Chevy competes against Saturn and Pontiac. Toyota and Lexus don't compete against each other. I was simply pointing out that GM's brand overlap hurts them more than it helps them, since they have the cost of running 13 brands instead of 3, not which one sells more (and incidentally: the CTS outsells the ES300 :p).


Keep Digging Tony. The fact of the matter is that GM is run like shit, and their Execs should be fired.

I dont see how people can make excuses for them. The companies have been going downhill for how long now? If you owned a business and your managers were losing you money, would you keep paying them ridiculous amounts of money? I know I wouldnt.

If someone running my company had struck a gold mine in the burgeoning market of China and reinvented the Buick brand as a serious luxury nameplete? If they had slowly been cutting costs by getting rid of dead weight? If they had overseen the largest improvement in quality and perception of my product in the last 20 years? If they had seen incremental sales increases nearly every year?

Why yes- yes I would. It's called "The Big Picture".

gothicaleigh
12-02-08, 05:43 PM
pot meet kettle

The Tony Show
12-02-08, 05:45 PM
Eh??

Details plz

gothicaleigh
12-02-08, 05:49 PM
Eh??

Details plz

Oh, not you. :p

...just humorous to hear government officials criticize others for not doing their job.

The Tony Show
12-02-08, 06:05 PM
Oh.

Darn. :D

Spittin Game
12-02-08, 06:30 PM
Umm....because the current economic situation is affecting everyone, not just GM? The fact that even your mighty and wonderful Toyota has had to resort to 0% and the "Toyotathon of Toyotathons" (their term, not mine) perfectly proves my argument that GM's current dire situation is largely the result of the housing collapse, not their own doing. So....thank you for agreeing with me.



That whole paragraph has nothing to do with what I said. My point was that Cadillac competes against Buick and Chevy competes against Saturn and Pontiac. Toyota and Lexus don't compete against each other. I was simply pointing out that GM's brand overlap hurts them more than it helps them, since they have the cost of running 13 brands instead of 3, not which one sells more (and incidentally: the CTS outsells the ES300 :p).



If someone running my company had struck a gold mine in the burgeoning market of China and reinvented the Buick brand as a serious luxury nameplete? If they had slowly been cutting costs by getting rid of dead weight? If they had overseen the largest improvement in quality and perception of my product in the last 20 years? If they had seen incremental sales increases nearly every year?

Why yes- yes I would. It's called "The Big Picture".

Tony your amazing.

How the hell is Cadilac competing with Saturn and Pontiac??? LMAO, are you serious? I took GM luxury brand and Toyota luxury brand, and compared sales, then you flip it and tell me Cadillac is competing with Saturn and Pontiac? Your dilusional man, people that want a Cadillac dont even go to the Saturn showroom let alone pontiac. That whole paragraph does have everything to do with it, you wanted to talk about competition, so I took Luxury brand vs Luxury brand and you somehow, and Im still not quite sure how exactly you turned it to Luxury vs Entry Level competition within the Same company.

And GM brought Buick in as a Luxury nameplate??? OMG, you really can not be serious here man. Buick??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, thats the poor old mans Cadillac.

Thanks for the laugh Tony.:cookoo:

GailyBedight
12-02-08, 07:00 PM
Restructuring, new UAW agreements, $1/yr salary, more efficient cars, etc. None of this is going to have any effect until people start buying cars. The financial "crisis" will last well in to 2009 if not longer. Any bailout of the big 3 at this time is just pissin the money away. They'll be back for more and Congress will give it to them so that they don't look stupid for giving them the money now.

Every industry out there is feeling the crunch. Those that tighten belts and plan well will survive, those that don't . . .

The Tony Show
12-02-08, 07:13 PM
Tony your amazing.

How the hell is Cadilac competing with Saturn and Pontiac??? LMAO, are you serious? I took GM luxury brand and Toyota luxury brand, and compared sales, then you flip it and tell me Cadillac is competing with Saturn and Pontiac? Your dilusional man, people that want a Cadillac dont even go to the Saturn showroom let alone pontiac. That whole paragraph does have everything to do with it, you wanted to talk about competition, so I took Luxury brand vs Luxury brand and you somehow, and Im still not quite sure how exactly you turned it to Luxury vs Entry Level competition within the Same company.

Reading comprehension is your friend. I never said anything about Cadillac competing with Pontiac, only that Cadillac and Buick overlap, as do Pontiac/Chevy/Saturn. Your monologue about Cadillac and Lexus was completely off the topic at hand, which is a company competing with itself due to product overlap. Try and keep up.


And GM brought Buick in as a Luxury nameplate??? OMG, you really can not be serious here man. Buick??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, thats the poor old mans Cadillac.

Guess what the #1 status symbol for Executives and the wealthy in China is? A Buick. If you'd take your head out of the Anti-GM sand for 5 seconds and look around, you'd already know that. GM sold more cars in China last year than it did in America, and turned a healthy profit doing so. News stories as far back as 2006 report on Buick's emergence as a status symbol in China, such as these two:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12801549/

http://www.autonews.com/article/20080914/ANA09/809150322&template=comments


Thanks for the laugh Tony.

I don't doubt one of us is getting laughed at by the people reading this. I'm not so sure however, that it's who you think it is.


Tony your amazing.

Thank you. And it's "you're".

Ranger
12-02-08, 07:19 PM
This is what the big 3 did durning our 9/11

I hope it hasn't been posted before!

Ford, Chrysler and GM's contributions after 9/11



Ford, Chrysler and GM's contributions after 9/11
An interesting commentary...You might find this of interest:

'CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's
contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington.

The findings are as follows.....

1. Ford- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions
of the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also
offered ER response team services and office space to displaced government employees.

2. GM- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of
the same number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks.

3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims of
the Sept. 11 attack.

4. Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the
New York Police Dept.

5. Volkswagen-Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation,
funded initial with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and
victims of the WTC.

6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.

7. Audi-Nothing.
8. BMW-Nothing.
9. Daewoo- Nothing.
10. Fiat-Nothing.
11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in August 2001
12. Isuzu- Nothing.
13. Mitsubishi-Nothing.
14. Nissan-Nothing.
15. Porsche-Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche website.
16. Subaru- Nothing.
17. Suzuki- Nothing.
18. Toyota-Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001.
Condolences posted on the website

Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep
this information in mind. You might want to give more consideration to a car manufactured by an American-owned and / or American based company. Apart
from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed nothing
at all to the citizens of the United States ... It's OK for these companies to take money out of this country, but it is apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis.

I believe we should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets their
As long as we are giving credit where credit is due, lets not forget who built the weapons of war that gave our fathers (or grandfathers) the tools to give us the freedoms we enjoy today.

Spittin Game
12-02-08, 07:26 PM
Reading comprehension is your friend. I never said anything about Cadillac competing with Pontiac, only that Cadillac and Buick overlap, as do Pontiac/Chevy/Saturn. Your monologue about Cadillac and Lexus was completely off the topic at hand, which is a company competing with itself due to product overlap. Try and keep up.



Guess what the #1 status symbol for Executives and the wealthy in China is? A Buick. If you'd take your head out of the Anti-GM sand for 5 seconds and look around, you'd already know that. GM sold more cars in China last year than it did in America, and turned a healthy profit doing so. News stories as far back as 2006 report on Buick's emergence as a status symbol in China, such as these two:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12801549/

http://www.autonews.com/article/20080914/ANA09/809150322&template=comments



I don't doubt one of us is getting laughed at by the people reading this. I'm not so sure however, that it's who you think it is.



Thank you. And it's "you're".

Tony, come on now. Buick is shit. When I was buying my Escalade, do you think I thought to myself: maybe I should go check out some of those hot ass Buicks they have for sale now? Hell no, buick is a joke, buick is the poor old mans Caddy. Get off GM's nuts Tony.

And how is comparing Lexus to Caddy not the topic at hand? You wanted to compare luxury vs luxury. I did with 2 companies that are headed in 2 totally different directions. I mean your comment about GM and their 13 brands outselling Toyota and its 3 brands was ok? But when I compare the 2 luxury divisions, thats not ok???

And your contridicting my spelling on an internet forum, thats how lame your argument has gotten, that you had to revert to spell checking.

Sad Tony.

The Tony Show
12-02-08, 07:49 PM
Tony, come on now. Buick is shit. When I was buying my Escalade, do you think I thought to myself: maybe I should go check out some of those hot ass Buicks they have for sale now? Hell no, buick is a joke, buick is the poor old mans Caddy. Get off GM's nuts Tony.

Actually, the Enclave is one hell of a nice vehicle. The Lucerne is also a great way to get 90% of a DTS for 70% of the cost. Yet more things you don't know.


And how is comparing Lexus to Caddy not the topic at hand? You wanted to compare luxury vs luxury. I did with 2 companies that are headed in 2 totally different directions. I mean your comment about GM and their 13 brands outselling Toyota and its 3 brands was ok? But when I compare the 2 luxury divisions, thats not ok???



No I didn't. :gah: You suggested that GM having 13 brands should make them the sales leader, and I countered that it was more of a detriment than an advantage due to product overlap. My point was that they sell against themselves, while Toyota and Lexus do not due to their distinctly different identities.

I'm such a nice guy, I'll even give you the play by play so you can watch yourself veer off the subject in beautiful Technicolor:


GM as a whole company yes, take each one compared with toyota, no. Oh lets see here, 13 (THIRTEEN) different car makers in the GM family, I sure as hell would expect those 13 DIFFERENT car companies to outsell one lowly Toyota group made up of a whole 3 different car brands.



The "13 brand" argument is silly: Because they end up competing with themselves that can be considered as a detriment rather than a boon, not to mention the advertising budget of 13 brands versus 3.

With me so far? Here's where you take the trip to la-la land:


You say they compete against each other? Take the Toyota and GM Luxury Brands and lets talk about sales and incentives...Lexus vs Cadillac. Lets see here, you could have bought a Caddy for 0% up to 72 months or on Employee Pricing, a Lexus though, not even close to those rates/incentives...Who outsells who? Guess what Tony, your not gonna like this, but its Lexus.


I tried to clarify my point and get back on topic....


That whole paragraph has nothing to do with what I said. My point was that Cadillac competes against Buick and Chevy competes against Saturn and Pontiac. Toyota and Lexus don't compete against each other. I was simply pointing out that GM's brand overlap hurts them more than it helps them, since they have the cost of running 13 brands instead of 3, not which one sells more

...but you went even crazier!


How the hell is Cadilac competing with Saturn and Pontiac??? LMAO, are you serious? I took GM luxury brand and Toyota luxury brand, and compared sales, then you flip it and tell me Cadillac is competing with Saturn and Pontiac? Your dilusional man, people that want a Cadillac dont even go to the Saturn showroom let alone pontiac. That whole paragraph does have everything to do with it, you wanted to talk about competition, so I took Luxury brand vs Luxury brand and you somehow, and Im still not quite sure how exactly you turned it to Luxury vs Entry Level competition within the Same company.

Are you only reading every third word of my posts before responding or something?

Destroyer
12-02-08, 07:50 PM
And your contridicting my spelling on an internet forumActually he was "correcting" your spelling not "contradicting" it which you managed to spell wrong BTW.
:lildevil::D

Spittin Game
12-02-08, 08:38 PM
Actually, the Enclave is one hell of a nice vehicle. The Lucerne is also a great way to get 90% of a DTS for 70% of the cost. Yet more things you don't know.



No I didn't. :gah: You suggested that GM having 13 brands should make them the sales leader, and I countered that it was more of a detriment than an advantage due to product overlap. My point was that they sell against themselves, while Toyota and Lexus do not due to their distinctly different identities.

I'm such a nice guy, I'll even give you the play by play so you can watch yourself veer off the subject in beautiful Technicolor:





With me so far? Here's where you take the trip to la-la land:



I tried to clarify my point and get back on topic....



...but you went even crazier!



Are you only reading every third word of my posts before responding or something?

Tony, Im done arguing with you, its pointless for both of us. Your not gonna agree with me and Im not gonna agree with you. Kinda like the political arguments people have, your not gonna change the views of someone else.

BTW, how was my spelling this time?

Spittin Game
12-02-08, 08:39 PM
Actually he was "correcting" your spelling not "contradicting" it which you managed to spell wrong BTW.
:lildevil::D

:thepan:

:cool:

The Tony Show
12-02-08, 08:47 PM
Tony, Im done arguing with you, its pointless for both of us. Your not gonna agree with me and Im not gonna agree with you. Kinda like the political arguments people have, your not gonna change the views of someone else.

Since you're not even talking about the same thing as me, that's probably a good idea.


BTW, how was my spelling this time?

Still terrible. :)

RedGalant2k1
12-06-08, 03:43 AM
I think we should fire our entire legislative branch of government, local, state, and federal.