: 10 Cars That Damaged GM's Reputation



Lord Cadillac
11-25-08, 04:40 PM
According to PopularMechanics.com

GM's current precarious situation didn't come about overnight. There are arguments to be made that various government regulations led to the disaster and that management can't escape much of the blame, and there are plenty who contend it was a series of disastrous union labor contracts that have put the company at risk.

But there's one thing everyone agrees on: Over the past few decades GM put some truly terrible products out on the market. Unreliable, uninteresting and flat ugly, these were cars that simply destroyed GM's reputation. It's ironic that right now, just as it teeters near bankrupcy, GM has never had a stronger lineup of cars and trucks. From the shockingly good Chevrolet Cobalt SS, turbocharged and solid Saturn Astra, to the sweet-natured Cadillac CTS and the brilliant Chevrolet Corvette ZR1, the corporation's product portfolio is strong.

But each of those cars is weighed down by the legacy of products like the ten listed here. We've arbitrarily limited ourselves to cars built since 1970 here, so don't look for the ill-fated Corvair or truly horrid 1917 Chevrolet Model D on the list.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/reader_rides/4293188.html

hueterm
11-25-08, 05:40 PM
You can't argue w/the reliability issues, but some of these others are utter crap.

The H2 is perfect for its purpose and for those who want it. If it gets 10 MPG, then let the people who buy it pay for the freakin' gas. If the enviro nutjobs don't like it, then let them lay down in front of one and get it over with.

On the flip side -- all the greenfreaks raved about that EV1. Well, if there's no infrastructure to support it (i.e. charging stations w/enough frequency to keep from running out of power) -- then that's not GMs fault -- but these fools think it is.

And for as much as people want to rag on the Aztek, I've seen a lot of them on the road for years. It's ugly, but so is any minivan and a lot of CUVs. It was functional and reliable. Don't buy one if you don't like it, but to say it "damaged GM's rep" is drama queen hype.

ted tcb
11-25-08, 05:47 PM
Interesting list.
Hard to argue with the 1970's diesels, V8-6-4, Citations, etc.

I remember my dad getting stuck at least a half dozen times with his 1981 Fleetwood.
The yellow light came on, and the car simply quit running.
It happened on the way to work, in our driveway, even in a funeral procession.
Before the advent of cell phones, you were stuck, sometimes for hours.
The car had to be towed every time, and the dealer could not fix it. He dumped the car for a 1992 Regency,
which was a great car by comparison.
Didn't turn him off Cadillacs ... just one bad model, that's all.

I didn't mind the Chevette ... I always felt it served its target market nicely, moreso than the Vega ever did.
When they put a car on the list for problems with the engine, I'm surprised cars like the Malibu and GM minivans didn't
make the list ... the 3.1 and 3.4 engines suck ... anemic, with paper gaskets and platic plenums that literally evaporate.

None of these cars would stop me from buying a new GM ... much like a 1980's Toyota Supra with HG problems wouldn't stop me
from buying a new Toyota. I'd be more interested in resale value, and the ability to quickly resell the car should my needs change.
It's all a question of how you buy them in the first place ... I've been buried in Accords and Civics ... not just domestics.
I'd buy a lightly used GM in a heartbeat ... they build great cars that depreciate quickly, resulting in terrific value.

I definitely feel that GM builds a better car than the other domestics. I also don't believe that the ten cars listed would prevent someone
from buying a GM. Every manufacturer has a "hall of shame" list of vehicles they're not proud of. It's ancient history.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
11-25-08, 08:03 PM
Why is the EV-1 on that list? I have seen the documentary called "Who Killed The Electric Car" and the EV-1 was a GOOD thing for GM. It brought a lot of publicity to the company and if the oil companies had not made the electric car practically extinct then GM would have never gotten a bad complaint about one.

1991-1995 Saturns - lol

Night Wolf
11-25-08, 08:13 PM
I agree, the EV1 has no place on that list. Hummer H2.... as mentioned above, for it's target, it was good.

The Chevette again? Why? For what it was made for it was a good car. I grew up with them, my mom had 2. For many years they got her to work and back and everything else. Both a guy I worked with at my last job, as well as my current job had one in the past, same story.... had it for ~8 years hardly put any money into it... thing just kept going and going. Chevette was a 1st gen Isuzu I-Mark, the engine was Zu too.

Aztek... yeah, funky styling, but no worse off them Element or Scion and stuff, plus it actually was a useful vehicle.

One thing tho.... the video about the Vega.... now THAT is a smart women right there..... all this "crossover" nonsense... she just about sums it up:

H2sI7xZY1pI

billc83
11-25-08, 08:25 PM
Whenever I see these Top 10 lists, I always get the feeling they are written by some teenage guy who just read a picture book about automotive blunders (think "Crap Cars" or "The Cars We Love to Hate"). Some of the choices are obviously clear: I have no gripes with the V8-6-4 or Oldsmobile diesel engines, along with the X-Cars and Cimarron.

Saturn's entry is written without a proper nod to history. Though the cars were mediocre, the real failing of Saturn was its stagnant product lineup, in addition to the GM corporate system which fought Saturn tooth-and-nail. But Saturn's product offering was the same for about a decade, as they only offered the SC1 and SC2. Imagine buying an SC1 in 1990, returning to the dealership in '95, and the offerings are completely the same. It allowed no room for their customer base to expand.

The Hummer H2 was killed by rising gas prices and the "green movement." Bad timing really killed that beast. But when it was first released, the H2 really would seem like a good idea; people were still buying SUVs. Then gas prices went through the roof and its fate was sealed.

The EV-1 became a publicity nightmare after "Who Killed the Electric Car," but during its time was a capable little vehicle powered by electricity. It's understandable, though sad, that GM wanted to crush most examples; if I spent years developing a car, I wouldn't want competitors knowing my secrets.

OK, I've been writing on this too long. Not a horrible list, but would've been better with a proper nod to historical perspective.

c5 rv
11-25-08, 09:46 PM
I'm also tired of these bogus lists that are absolutely meaningless to GM's current situation. (Like other automakers didn't make some duds 20-30 years ago?) Besides, there are some real fans of these cars:

- Aztek: while this car was a joke among writers and auto enthusiasts, I've met a half dozen very pleased owners. It was a crossover before anyone knew what a crossover was. If Toyota launched this car today, it would be called a Venza.

- Saturns: again, lots of satisfied owners. They aren't car people, just folks. One friend had a rollover and walked away without a scratch. She went right back out and bought another one. A co-worker laments that GM forgot how to make a high mileage, 4 cyl car after his two current Saturns - one with about 240K miles on it. However, I also know some folks that got new engines when the first ones self-destructed.

thebigjimsho
11-25-08, 09:50 PM
Audi 5000, Lexus ES250, BMW Z1, original Mercedes C class, Toyota T100, etc, etc, etc...

Honestly, this is just some weak theoried article. Every automaker has had a number of bad cars. There may be reputation issues for a few years after a bad effort but i don't see anyone not buying a Lexus because the first one they rode in was a badly done ES250. You're as good as your last car bought.

Sal, I guess you think this is newsworthy but to post a link to every Monday morning quarterback, holier than thou blurb is a little troublesome to me. Are you having a contest with Blackout to find the most negative GM links on the internet?

LS1Mike
11-25-08, 09:59 PM
I'm also tired of these bogus lists that are absolutely meaningless to GM's current situation. (Like other automakers didn't make some duds 20-30 years ago?) Besides, there are some real fans of these cars:

- Aztek: while this car was a joke among writers and auto enthusiasts, I've met a half dozen very pleased owners. It was a crossover before anyone knew what a crossover was. If Toyota launched this car today, it would be called a Venza.

- Saturns: again, lots of satisfied owners. They aren't car people, just folks. One friend had a rollover and walked away without a scratch. She went right back out and bought another one. A co-worker laments that GM forgot how to make a high mileage, 4 cyl car after his two current Saturns - one with about 240K miles on it. However, I also know some folks that got new engines when the first ones self-destructed.
I totally agree, Previa, what ever crap mid engine van Toyota had before that.
http://www.classiccarsofsc.com/images/85ToyotaVan.jpg
Everyone and I mean everyone has had shit. People get over those abortions. In additon to oil sludge, 4 runner headgaskets, rusted frames, mini van doors falling off, torque converter problems. Hey the list goes on for the Big Toyota, but it is Toyota so it has to be good.
It Toyota launched the Aztec today people would love it, because it is a Toyota. People believe only what they want to.
Threads like this get old.

LS1Mike
11-25-08, 10:02 PM
Audi 5000, Lexus ES250, BMW Z1, original Mercedes C class, Toyota T100, etc, etc, etc...

Honestly, this is just some weak theoried article. Every automaker has had a number of bad cars. There may be reputation issues for a few years after a bad effort but i don't see anyone not buying a Lexus because the first one they rode in was a badly done ES250. You're as good as your last car bought.

Sal, I guess you think this is newsworthy but to post a link to every Monday morning quarterback, holier than thou blurb is a little troublesome to me. Are you having a contest with Blackout to find the most negative GM links on the internet?

Holy Cow dude, I find myself agreeing with you more and more.

Ranger
11-25-08, 10:04 PM
Has anyone seen a Scion XB, or a Good For Two (or whatever it is called) lately? :vomit:

Night Wolf
11-25-08, 10:37 PM
Has anyone seen a Scion XB, or a Good For Two (or whatever it is called) lately? :vomit:

You kidding... this thing is freakin sweet! even surpassing such marvels as the '59 Eldorado....

http://www.lombardscion.com/Images/Picture/2007/June/lg_01-2008-scion-xb-customized.jpg

Really though, I used to think the 1st gen XBox was ugly... then I saw this one... now the first one dosen't look "as" bad...

creeker
11-25-08, 10:49 PM
I agree, the EV1 has no place on that list. Hummer H2.... as mentioned above, for it's target, it was good.

The Chevette again? Why? For what it was made for it was a good car. I grew up with them, my mom had 2. For many years they got her to work and back and everything else. Both a guy I worked with at my last job, as well as my current job had one in the past, same story.... had it for ~8 years hardly put any money into it... thing just kept going and going. Chevette was a 1st gen Isuzu I-Mark, the engine was Zu too.

Aztek... yeah, funky styling, but no worse off them Element or Scion and stuff, plus it actually was a useful vehicle.

One thing tho.... the video about the Vega.... now THAT is a smart women right there..... all this "crossover" nonsense... she just about sums it up:

H2sI7xZY1pI


I agree with you on the chevette,I think they were good value for the money,my mom had one too,and she was rough on cars,she ripped the gear shift out of it a few times,up until about 5 years ago you would still see them on the road,battered and rusty but still going.

Jesda
11-25-08, 10:55 PM
Saturns of the 90s were dependable, if basic. Most importantly, they looked different, drove well enough, and offered lots of value. Its exactly what Saturn buyers wanted, they just wanted a little more.

Night Wolf
11-25-08, 10:58 PM
I agree, I personally like 90's Saturns for small econo cars.... one design they had that GM didn't quite catch on to the rest of their lineup was the spin-on transmission oil filter.

Destroyer
11-25-08, 11:10 PM
That list sucked!. Cadillacs should actually have consumed more than half that list vs. only 1/5th. N*'s, 4.1's............and they knock the 4-6-8 motors that could easily be made simple V8's?. BS. Vega's were rough the first year or 2 and then got better. Its a car I'm glad exists cause its just plain badass with a V8. I'm not sure I can agree on even one of those choices (except for the cimarron) that I agree with.

Night Wolf
11-25-08, 11:18 PM
By the final year (1988?) The Cimmarion was actually pretty nice.... had the updated front end that sorta made it look like a Caddy, the nicer interior with digital dash and other electronic goodies, and the 2.8 V6 with 5spd manual as an option.

http://ned.ronet.ru/0/1988%20Cadillac%20Cimarron.jpg

I suppose with that said.... the fact that this car *was* built to compete almost directly with my 80's BMW 3-series, is a tough one to swallow...

ted tcb
11-26-08, 12:10 AM
That list sucked!. Cadillacs should actually have consumed more than half that list vs. only 1/5th. N*'s, 4.1's............and they knock the 4-6-8 motors that could easily be made simple V8's?. BS. Vega's were rough the first year or 2 and then got better. Its a car I'm glad exists cause its just plain badass with a V8. I'm not sure I can agree on even one of those choices (except for the cimarron) that I agree with.

I tried to put it into the context of the day.
My dad traded in his 1978 Sedan DeVille with the 425ci. motor. Solid car.
He was in GM's demographic target ... a businessman who wanted to have a little extra flair while on the road.
That car left him stranded many times, and the largest Caddy dealer in Toronto didn't know how to fix it in 1981. No one ever offered to dismantle the variable displacement technology for us. We had GM's finest luxury car, and it would not run. Those circumstances were harmful to GM.

My stepfather owned a Cadillac dealership from the mid-seventies to the early 80's. He converted quite a few diesel cars back to gas for fed up owners. It got so bad, he sold his dealership.
At dinner recently, he told me that in 1982, he told his partner that GM would go broke if they didn't fix their problems.
It took a few more years than he predicted, but it looks like it may happen.

hueterm
11-26-08, 12:37 AM
Saturns of the 90s were dependable, if basic. Most importantly, they looked different, drove well enough, and offered lots of value. Its exactly what Saturn buyers wanted, they just wanted a little more.


Weren't the original Saturns unique platform cars? And now, aren't they all shared platform me too cars?

Night Wolf
11-26-08, 12:51 AM
I tried to put it into the context of the day.
My dad traded in his 1978 Sedan DeVille with the 425ci. motor. Solid car.
He was in GM's demographic target ... a businessman who wanted to have a little extra flair while on the road.
That car left him stranded many times, and the largest Caddy dealer in Toronto didn't know how to fix it in 1981. No one ever offered to dismantle the variable displacement technology for us. We had GM's finest luxury car, and it would not run. Those circumstances were harmful to GM.

My stepfather owned a Cadillac dealership from the mid-seventies to the early 80's. He converted quite a few diesel cars back to gas for fed up owners. It got so bad, he sold his dealership.
At dinner recently, he told me that in 1982, he told his partner that GM would go broke if they didn't fix their problems.
It took a few more years than he predicted, but it looks like it may happen.

Cutting a single wire under the car made it run in V8 mode all the time.

It wasn't the solenoids what was the problem, it was the primitive computer control for them... if it was simply V4 or V8 mode, without V6, and V4 was only used once steady highway speed was reached, it would have been ok... which is why that system wired to to a simple 2-position switch so the driver could choose 4 or 8cyl would be pretty neat.

93DevilleUSMC
11-26-08, 01:03 AM
Saturns, like another poster said, were basic cars, nothing more. The Chevette's only weaknesses IMO were two weak engines and ugly styling. Beyond that, I'd say that the HT4100 motor deserved a spot on that list far more than the Chevette.

Patrick7997
11-26-08, 04:49 AM
Interesting list...

The Vega was a disaster. My parents were told that they bought the first Vega sold in America, back in 1971... What a nightmare. Wouldn't keep running. Severely underpowered. Dealer wouldn't (or couldn't?) fix it... Car spen half it's life, literally, at the dealership...

Chevy Citation. Yeah, not the proudest moment.

Chevette. I'm not sure why that's on the list. Some high school classmates of mine had Chevettes... The one guy beat on it as hard as is imaginable.... Couldn't break it.

Cimarron. Yeah, that was embarrasing...

Early Saturns. Author states they were "not unreliable"??? By then, friends of mine worked in shops... There was always a Saturn on the rack somewhere....

Old's diesels. That was not good....

V 8-6-4. Not sure this deserved a spot on the list. Not a lot were ever even sold... The cut the wire fix seemed to take a long time to reach dealerships... Was an embarrasment, to be sure, but... the HT4100 could occupy this spot, although to be fair, they did run for awhile... it was around 75,000 that the trouble started...

Hummer H2. Huh? This has been a success. They were crazy popular when they came out, and are still beloved by Hummer faithful... Every automaker has a product that is not "green" enough.... I don't get that one. The Hummer H2 is a competent truck that delivers exactly what it promises...

The EV1?? A tiny niche product on a list like this?? Thats absurd. By and large, the public is unaware such a thing ever existed....

I agree with some of the other posters though. Don't hold your breath waiting for an article about "Toyota's ten biggest blunders"... Or "BMW's nightmarish service record", or "VW's brutal reliability record and all-world ripoff dealer network"....

RedGalant2k1
12-06-08, 04:00 AM
Makes me respect popular mechanics less. The only car I'd agree with is the Cadillac Cimmaron. Other than that I've never seen or heard that many complaints about any of those cars. And I've heard people give overwhelming praise to of all vehicles the Aztek.

heavymetals
12-06-08, 04:31 PM
I worked on the EV1.

It was a POS that GM made with a gun to their head.

We used to speculate about how much pollution would be created in an accident when the battery acid (a lot!) went down the drain.

The VOLT is a different story though and I have high hopes for it's success.

Aron9000
12-07-08, 04:04 AM
Add to that list:

1985 Deville
1986 Seville and Eldorado
Chevy Cavilier(any year),
1988 Regal, Olds Cutlass, Lumina
Any FWD GM minivan
1994 Olds Aurua
Pontiac Grand Am/Olds Alero(any year)


I don't know why they dogged saturn. They were good cars when they came out, but GM made them for 12 years without a major redesign. The H2 is a silly vehicle, but it is reliable and a beast off road, not really crap IMO. I wouldn't consider the EV1 a production vehicle, it was never sold to the public.

The Astek can burn in hell. It cemented in the public's mind that Pontiac made ugly, cheap cars(a fact reinforced with the grand am).

RedGalant2k1
12-08-08, 11:24 AM
Add to that list:

1985 Deville
1986 Seville and Eldorado
Chevy Cavilier(any year),
1988 Regal, Olds Cutlass, Lumina
Any FWD GM minivan
1994 Olds Aurua
Pontiac Grand Am/Olds Alero(any year)


I don't know why they dogged saturn. They were good cars when they came out, but GM made them for 12 years without a major redesign. The H2 is a silly vehicle, but it is reliable and a beast off road, not really crap IMO. I wouldn't consider the EV1 a production vehicle, it was never sold to the public.

The Astek can burn in hell. It cemented in the public's mind that Pontiac made ugly, cheap cars(a fact reinforced with the grand am).

The EV1 was sold in California only, but it was sold to the public.

Elvis
12-08-08, 11:21 PM
I briefly had a 1981 CDV with the 8-6-4. It was a GOOD CAR. Never had any trouble with it. But I only had it six months, tops. People who have high-mileage models have figured out how to disable the 6-4 and they seem happy.

Glad to see the Aztek on the list.

LS1Mike & BigJim are right. EVERYBODY has put out their share of crappy cars since 1970.

The problem right now is tight credit and $4 gasoline. Or one could say that the problem four years ago was easy credit and $1.50 gasoline.

In either case, the fact that Toyota, Honda et al ARE NOT experiencing the same level of pain points more to the UAW shackles than it does to credit or fuel economy. The foreign companies are profitable, and our big three are not.

heavymetals
12-11-08, 02:45 PM
The EV1 was sold in California only, but it was sold to the public.

You didn't own the EV1.

You leased it.

GM collected and crushed most if not all of them.

misfit6794
12-11-08, 08:28 PM
Add to that list:

1985 Deville
1986 Seville and Eldorado
Chevy Cavilier(any year),
1988 Regal, Olds Cutlass, Lumina
Any FWD GM minivan
1994 Olds Aurua
Pontiac Grand Am/Olds Alero(any year)



Couldn't agree me with the alero and grand am, family members of mine have owned both and they were god awful cars.

Have to disagree with the aurora though, I drove both generations of it and loved it.

I'd like to add the s10/blazer/jimmy to the list, my 99 blazer was THE worst vehicle I have ever owned.

Oh and who can forget "The caddy that zigs"=FAIL

ryannel2003
12-12-08, 01:07 AM
Some of the cars make sense; most don't. I agree with Cimarron, though I think the 4.1 V8 deserves a spot instead of V8-6-4. At least you could disable it.

The Grand AM/Alero were terrible vehicles, the Grand AM was a big seller for GM and people somehow loved them. Same deal with Cavalier. Don't agree with the comment on Aurora. Basically a cheaper Seville SLS.

Aron9000
12-13-08, 12:55 AM
Some of the cars make sense; most don't. I agree with Cimarron, though I think the 4.1 V8 deserves a spot instead of V8-6-4. At least you could disable it.

The Grand AM/Alero were terrible vehicles, the Grand AM was a big seller for GM and people somehow loved them. Same deal with Cavalier. Don't agree with the comment on Aurora. Basically a cheaper Seville SLS.

^ The Aurua was a really cool design, but the quality/reliablity was junk. Plus its really expensive to fix.

The S-10 Blazer is weird. I had a friend who had a 1991ish(old body style, boxy) Jimmy that was total junk. Then again I've heard from several people that have a S-10 Blazer/pickup with the 4.3 V6 said its the best vehicle they've ever owned.

BacDoc
12-13-08, 10:17 AM
Without looking the Pontiac Aztek is the worst design to ever hit a showroom in the history of cars.

LS1Mike
12-13-08, 11:20 AM
The S-10 Blazer is weird. I had a friend who had a 1991ish(old body style, boxy) Jimmy that was total junk. Then again I've heard from several people that have a S-10 Blazer/pickup with the 4.3 V6 said its the best vehicle they've ever owned.

Right I have had two, both were very good.
My 1991 with 4.3 TBI, was by far the best vehicle I ever owned.
I put 270,000 miles on it never a tranny out or valve cover off.
I did 1 water pump, 1 fuel pump, 1 oil pressure sending unit and 1 idler arm.
A total of 200 bucks in parts.
The 1992 I had was almost as good, I did have to do a intake manifold gasket on that one at 140,000 miles.

LS1Mike
12-13-08, 11:23 AM
Without looking the Pontiac Aztek is the worst design to ever hit a showroom in the history of cars.

I doubt it....
http://www.subrew.com/library/yugo/yugo_front.jpg
http://www.toyoland.com/photos/1987/van.jpg
Mid engine pile of the poop.
May have been the worst for GM though.

I am not defending the Aztek, but you know if Honda or Toyota had come out with it, it would have been cutting
edge and really useful.
GM makes it and it the worst car ever.

BacDoc
12-13-08, 02:32 PM
I doubt it....
http://www.subrew.com/library/yugo/yugo_front.jpg
http://www.toyoland.com/photos/1987/van.jpg
Mid engine pile of the poop.
May have been the worst for GM though.

I am not defending the Aztek, but you know if Honda or Toyota had come out with it, it would have been cutting
edge and really useful.
GM makes it and it the worst car ever.

The Aztek hit the market in 2001 IIRC. There is absolutely no excuse for a design like that in the past 30 years.

LS1Mike
12-13-08, 02:56 PM
These are so much better.
http://www.cars-show.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/scion-xb-500.jpg
http://www.autonews24h.com/img/200602/Honda-Fit-hybrid.jpg
http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/roadtest/07.nissan.versa/07.nissan.versa.340.jpg
Because these are awesome compared to this
http://www.edmunds.com/pictures/VEHICLE/2005/Pontiac/100404081/2005.pontiac.aztek.30681-396x249.jpg
Like I said if were anyone else it would have been cutting edge and useful.
Hey I will argue about this one all day, and like I said not defended the Aztek, but if you look at some cars today, it isn't much worse.
People just like to pick on it.

LS1Mike
12-13-08, 02:58 PM
The Aztek hit the market in 2001 IIRC. There is absolutely no excuse for a design like that in the past 30 years.

2001-1987 is 14 years. So what was Toyota's Excuse?
You said it not I.

ryannel2003
12-13-08, 06:31 PM
^ The Aurua was a really cool design, but the quality/reliablity was junk. Plus its really expensive to fix.

The S-10 Blazer is weird. I had a friend who had a 1991ish(old body style, boxy) Jimmy that was total junk. Then again I've heard from several people that have a S-10 Blazer/pickup with the 4.3 V6 said its the best vehicle they've ever owned.

Extremely expensive. The Aurora is the G-Body, which the '98 Seville is based on. Similar platform + similar engine = pain in the ass.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-14-08, 09:48 PM
http://www.toyoland.com/photos/1987/van.jpg


What the hell is that? That's just awful...but not as quite as bad as the Previa.

Night Wolf
12-14-08, 09:59 PM
Lets not forget this piece of automotive sweetness..... GM made have had Rubbermaid interiors in the past, but why stop there? Rubbermaid body panels (and not just cladding/trim)!

http://www.autocarparts.com/images/products/Honda/honda_element.jpg

Which came out "after" the Aztek.... yet this useless mess was a major hit? The Aztek with a raised minivan platform and AWD was actually useful for the outdoors person with all the neat features like the tent and power inverter and stuff.

LS1Mike
12-14-08, 11:12 PM
What the hell is that? That's just awful...but not as quite as bad as the Previa.

Dude you might not be old enough to remeber those things running around the US. What a pile mid engine hard to work on. Looked just like that sold here in the states, My Shop teacher had one, and will not own another Toyota because of that pile. They really were unrealiable and pricey to fix.

LS1Mike
12-14-08, 11:13 PM
Lets not forget this piece of automotive sweetness..... GM made have had Rubbermaid interiors in the past, but why stop there? Rubbermaid body panels (and not just cladding/trim)!

http://www.autocarparts.com/images/products/Honda/honda_element.jpg

Which came out "after" the Aztek.... yet this useless mess was a major hit? The Aztek with a raised minivan platform and AWD was actually useful for the outdoors person with all the neat features like the tent and power inverter and stuff.

Sweet! How could I forget that.

hueterm
12-15-08, 01:21 AM
What the hell is that? That's just awful...but not as quite as bad as the Previa.


ROFL Chad....they were probably all scrapped by the time you were (if not born) self-aware.. :)

A stiff wind would blow one over standing still!

hueterm
12-15-08, 01:25 AM
And OMG -- if GM had put out a car that looked as old and worn out as the GT-R -- there would be screaming from the rooftops at what touched losers they are.

Nissan puts it out, and Pfizer's stock drops 20 pts, b/c Viagra demand falls off a cliff....

What a joke.

Aron9000
12-15-08, 02:33 AM
Lets not forget this piece of automotive sweetness..... GM made have had Rubbermaid interiors in the past, but why stop there? Rubbermaid body panels (and not just cladding/trim)!

http://www.autocarparts.com/images/products/Honda/honda_element.jpg

Which came out "after" the Aztek.... yet this useless mess was a major hit? The Aztek with a raised minivan platform and AWD was actually useful for the outdoors person with all the neat features like the tent and power inverter and stuff.

That thing was equally useful, yet equally ugly. Kind of like the Aztek. The interior was pretty nice and well made, unlike the Aztek. Both are abominations, but Honda had enough goodwill with the public to overlook the Element.

My main point is that the Aztek doomed Pontiac, but Honda has enough good will with the public to overcome ugly styling. People will buy them, even if they are ugly.

Also, why all the hate on the Previa/Toyota van???? Were they really any uglier than an 80's/90's minivan? NO!!!! Plus they were more reliable than any FWD GM/Ford/Chrysler offerings of the same time period.