: Cadİllac vs benz ( innovatİons )



Newmonarch
11-19-08, 09:09 AM
Hi all...I want ask you some questions about GM's innovations.

1-) Buick Riviera had "Traction control" system, called "Max Track" in the past, between 71-73 model Riviera's. ( Which called Boattail too ) , but when I am looking wikipedia, it says that Mercedes-Benz pioneered and introduced traction control systems. Why? Benz introduced that system in 1980's, but GM is in early 70's...

Of course, wiki says that Mercedes patented "Traction control" system in 1959. But why did not they introduce in 60's or 70's ? ( I think computerized systems are too expensive in that era ) , but I want to know that when was "Traction Control" system idea appeared ? And by whom? GM or BENZ? If look at Patents we can say Benz but we know that companies can have a patent that non existing products. ( For Example Microsoft )

2-) When I looked for Active Steering systems, I saw "Servo controlled steering" , and I saw that even 1948 American Trucks and Studebaker were had that system in the past. Mercedes says " Parametric steering " , but its debuted with W140 S600. Bmw has improved this system in 2003 ( Or 2004 ) , but they are saying Benz is the first. Cant we say Parametric steering's predecessor is AM General's innovation?

3-) This question is about ABS. I know how it works and when first applied to cars, but I researched and found that Cadillac had that option in 1970's, named Trackmaster. But again, why everyone calls Electronic Anti Lock Braking system is first introduced by benz in 1978? Mercedes's Abs is better than Trackmaster, I accept. Trackmaster is only applying brakes for rear wheels, Abs is four. But that was electronic and was an option in Cadillac's production cars in 70's.

4-) Another question is, Mercedes's Active Body Control system, which introduced in 1999. That is calling world's first adaptive and intelligent suspension . But if we look Cadillac's history, even 1995 Eldorado has got Road Sensing Suspension and Chassis control system. I dont know what does it mean or why Cadillac is not in that list?

5-) Benz introduced Electornic Stability Control in 1996 which was called "ESP" , Cadillac introduced Stabilitrak in 1997.I know Gm has traction control systems in the past, and I know again Electronic Stability Control is improved version of Traction Controls, which has got more feautres ( Sensitive for angular movements of car ) . So I am asking, there is only 1 year between tho systems introduced, was Cadillac improving ESP too? Or took it from Benz directly?

6-) This question is about airbags. I know that Airbag was an idea of Americans and applied in first American Cars such as Chrysler's Imperial, Cadillac and Buick. But I heard that Airbags were killing peoples in accidents, instead of protect them. Is thıs true? This time I dont argue about which company used in their vehicles, the answer is very simple now.

7-) In 1998, Cadillac introduced world's first Night vision system applied on a car. But I heard that nightvision system had problems and not active. Is this true? I didnt believed that too, I think it was very expensive for its time, like lots of American innovations. ( Such as Cadillac's V8 6-4 and Buick's expensive Traction control system )

8-) In 1982, Cadillac introduced HT engines for front wheel drive systems, which was called "Transverse". I know HT engines were caused problems in the past, but I read that engines had advanced technology in that time and pioonered "ECU" , is this true? And secondly I know an European Company ( Bmw or Mercedes ) , introduced first 32 bit Ecu ( I dont know this info is true ) , can we say Cadillac's HT engine started that era?

9-) In 1990's, Oldsmobile's Toronado model had touch screen CRT's and warning with human voice. Wasnt that system a first of something in Automobile era?

10-) What does mean "Mass production V8" ?( Cadillac's 1930's engines ) Is this invention is important as Otto's Four Stroke ?

11-) How can I find ALL GM innovations ?

12-) Did "Big Three" has got important contribitions for this industry? ( Comparing to European cars )

13-) 1971 Cadillac Deville vs Mercedes Benz W108. Which one is better, and has leading technology?

14-) Were first crash tests are made by American's?

If you answer that questions, I will be glad, I am sure , because I want to learn those things for months!

Newmonarch
11-19-08, 11:01 AM
Can anybody reply me?

Can you answer those?

Lord Cadillac
11-19-08, 04:52 PM
Give it some time, please!

ryannel2003
11-19-08, 05:08 PM
I couldn't answer every question on you're list, but I will tell you that Mercedes-Benz has always let the car market when it comes to advanced safety features and innovations. I'm not saying that Cadillac hasn't, but Cadillac isn't know for innovations. They're known for style and the "you've made it factor". Mercedes has always been known for the above.

Chad might be able to answer some of you're questions on S-Classes. He has a '99 W140 S320, which I've been told is one of the most over-engineered cars ever produced.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-19-08, 07:28 PM
Thanks Ryan, I'll answer some questions once I get home and have access to my literature.

ryannel2003
11-19-08, 07:32 PM
I'm actually interested in the answers. Someone traded a '07 ML350 in for a new Caddy SRX yesterday and I was disappointed with it. I was expecting a grand vehicle, and its no better than any of the current Cadillac's.

The only other MB I've ever been in was a white '83 300E Turbo Diesel my uncle owned. Man, what a car. Had this "distinct" smell to it, kinda like the leather used in Cadillac's. Hmm... idk.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-19-08, 07:46 PM
Yeah...if you want a good Mercedes, you don't go for an ML. The first generations were the worst....a low point for Mercedes, especially when it comes to engineering depth and quality....and they felt so cheap. The interiors were like any sort of mid level asian brand...except they had nice leather.

orconn
11-20-08, 05:48 PM
Let's face it, early on ( and I mean way back in the "dark ages" of the automotive industry's history) American car manufacturers were very innovative and contributed greatly to the development of the car as we know it today. But the was primarily before the Second World War. Beginning in the 1950's American the emphasis for American companies was on building the most saleable, meaning styling and straight line performance, at the very cheapest price. Hence we had the 1957 Chevy (and its for runners the '55 and '56) the equivalent Fords, which put alot of "zing" in alot peoples driveways at a fraction of the cost of foreign cars with equivalent visual appeal and performance. Let's face VWs were sought after for there affordability not their style or performance.

But while the Americans were pursuing a "make it cheap and affordable" goal, the Europeans were trying to satisfy a different economic group with a much higher income and disposable income level were car buyers in the US. This European market demanded cars that would actually handled on the narrow twisting roads and could sustain high speeds on the Autibahns and super highways which were beginning to be common in Europe. Until well into the 1970's there were no speed limits on the high speed roads. Thus the European environment and the affluent car buying demographic provided a marketplace where innovation in the form better handling, better accident prevention and survivabilty were highly saleable attributes. High horsepower good looking cars from European companies were extremely expensive and large displacement engines were taxed very heavily (as they are today in Europe and Japan). It is for this reason that Mercedes and Volvo and oth European manufacturers have been leaders in safety and handing innovation while American companies have lagged behind. Let's face it America gets what it pays for, pure and simple!

Newmonarch
11-21-08, 04:01 PM
Thanks for answers but those werent enough.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-22-08, 07:30 PM
Here's a list of innovative automotive patents that Mercedes has made throughout the years.

1886: The Automobile
1911: The first multivalve engine
1921: The Supercharged engine
1931: Independent Suspension
1936: First Diesel passenger car
1951: The Crumple Zone
1954: Fuel Injection
1971: Air Bag
1981: Emergency Seat belt tensioning device
1982: Multilink rear suspension
1985: Electronic Traction Control
1989: Pop-up Roll Bar
1995: Electronic Stability Program
1997: Brake Assist
1997: Smart Key
1997: Touch Start
1998: Head Protection Curtains
1999: Active Body Control
1999: Climate controlled seat-belt usage sensors
1999: Airmatic semi-active suspension
2000: Distronic adaptive cruise control
2001: Keyless Go
2002: Drive-Dynamic front seats (side bolsters inflate under hard cornering)
2002: Pre-Safe
2003: 7 Speed Automatic Transmission

Source: 2005 Mercedes-Benz full line brochure.

ryannel2003
11-22-08, 09:13 PM
Damn.

I'm sure the list of Cadillac innovations is much shorter:

Early 1910's: first mass-produced V-8 engine
1940's: Introduction of "Hydra-Matic" first offered by Oldsmobile
1950's: First vehicle to offer memory seats ('57 Eldorado Brougham)
1954: first auto manufacturer to offer power steering as standard equipment on its entire line of automobiles
1960's First automatic climate control system offered in vehicle
1970's: First trip computer offered in a car
1985: First traverse V8 engine installed in Deville and Fleetwood
1990: First FWD car with traction control
1993: The Northstar V8
1997: Introduction of Onstar
2000: First use of "Night Vision" on Deville

Those are just a few of the ones I found. Not sure if they are perfectly correct, but as you can see, the list of Mercedes innovations is much longer.

Newmonarch
11-23-08, 11:10 AM
But it says Gm wasnt patent its innovations in the past. Should we look at patents or?

BamaCaddy08
12-20-08, 06:01 PM
Cadillac v Benz isnt a fair comparison. GM for decades debuted advanced technologies that would later find their way into Cadillac's on Oldsmobile's. Many Oldsmobiles served as testbeds. Oldsmobile V Benz would be interesting. Keep that in mind.

Other Cadillac Firsts
Cruise Control
Tilt and Telescoping steering wheels
Twilight Sentinel
Air suspension-57
Memory Seats-57
automatic electric door locks-57
transistor radio-57
low profile tires-57
Computerized "Track Master" skid control braking system in 1970
The First on-board microprocessors
Cadillac Pioneered Digital Fuel Injection
On-Board Diagnostics
Road Sensing suspension
"Limp home" mode

Newmonarch
12-25-08, 01:46 PM
And than what is Oldsmobile's innovations?

Cliff8928
12-26-08, 12:29 AM
Oldsmobile was the first to mass-produce vehicles with fully automatic transmissions (hydramatic, 1940) and the first mass-produced OHV V8 (1949).

timothyr
02-14-09, 04:26 PM
The other thing to keep in mind are the cadillac innovations that came, went, everyone else started offing them, then they were brought back...think
Guidematic (high beam auto dimming)
Heated seats
outboard lamp monitoring
etc

Jesda
02-15-09, 04:05 AM
ABC and CVRSS pale in comparison to Nissan/Infiniti's fully active suspension introduced on the first-generation Q45. The Q's system used electronic sensors and computer controlled hydraulic actuators. The height was also adjustable with a switch on the center console.

It was and STILL is the most advanced production suspension system, ever. Unfortunately, many active Q45s are being converted or send to wrecking yards due to the cost of replacing parts.

concorso
02-18-09, 07:04 PM
It was and STILL is the most advanced production suspension system, ever. Unfortunately, many active Q45s are being converted or send to wrecking yards due to the cost of replacing parts.Most advanced ever? Thats a bit of a stretch. It was certainly the first fully active suspension system, but from what Ive read, the Jag's CATS is the fastest fully active suspension system ever. I havent driven it, but Ive driven a Q45a and a STS with Magnaride. The STS was smoother over really rough surfaces...