: Panorama Roof or not



caddynoob
11-12-08, 11:01 PM
First of all, I am new to the forum. Just wanna say hi and greetings from Canada.

Besides having a hard time choosing the transmission. I am also having a hard time deciding on whether to order the panorama roof or not. Are you getting the panorama roof?

Personally I am leaning towards not ordering the panorama roof. I am not very impressed with the size or if you will the "panorama-ness" of the sunroof. It is not very wide left-right and doesn't extend as far back compared to the panorama roof on the E-class. More importantly it adds too much weight and affects the handling.

On the other hand not ordering it hurts will probably hurt resale value. In the end, I just can't decide.

thebigjimsho
11-12-08, 11:10 PM
Eh, weight, whatever. You're already getting a 4200+ lb car. What's a few more pounds? Guys complain about its weight all the time. I don't meet many who could pull consistent lap times with or without.

For some, headroom may be an issue. That's the only factor worth considering in my mind. I love moonroofs so mine will have one...

caddynoob
11-12-08, 11:25 PM
Eh, weight, whatever. You're already getting a 4200+ lb car. What's a few more pounds? Guys complain about its weight all the time. I don't meet many who could pull consistent lap times with or without.

For some, headroom may be an issue. That's the only factor worth considering in my mind. I love moonroofs so mine will have one...

Well, I wouldn't mind extra 100lb from the automatic. What concerns me more is what the roof will do to the handling of the car.

Seattle CTS-V
11-13-08, 12:36 AM
Well, I wouldn't mind extra 100lb from the automatic. What concerns me more is what the roof will do to the handling of the car.


If that concerns you then don't get the moonroof. More weight up top raises the center of gravity. There, problem solved.

edsuski
11-13-08, 03:42 AM
Eh, weight, whatever. You're already getting a 4200+ lb car. What's a few more pounds? Guys complain about its weight all the time. I don't meet many who could pull consistent lap times with or without.

For some, headroom may be an issue. That's the only factor worth considering in my mind. I love moonroofs so mine will have one...

Imagine how much it would cost to reduce the car by 100 Lbs. How would you do it? New ultra light weight wheels? Remove the Recaro's and replace them with light weight shells? Carbon fiber parts? Think about how much any of these changes would cost.

Now think about simply marking a box "Delete Sunroof" and saving $800 or more for doing so. Just like magic - you have taken 100 Lbs. off the top of the car. Lowered the center of gravity, increased head room and possibly reduced the heat load that the car will endure on a hot day while you are in the store for an hour or so.

100 Lbs. is a lot of weight to remove, especially from the top of the car. I say delete the sunroof and enjoy the extra room and handling. Not to mention a little better acceleration and shorter stopping distance. That is what I plan to do.


Ed

thebigjimsho
11-13-08, 07:00 AM
Imagine how much it would cost to reduce the car by 100 Lbs. How would you do it? New ultra light weight wheels? Remove the Recaro's and replace them with light weight shells? Carbon fiber parts? Think about how much any of these changes would cost.

Now think about simply marking a box "Delete Sunroof" and saving $800 or more for doing so. Just like magic - you have taken 100 Lbs. off the top of the car. Lowered the center of gravity, increased head room and possibly reduced the heat load that the car will endure on a hot day while you are in the store for an hour or so.

100 Lbs. is a lot of weight to remove, especially from the top of the car. I say delete the sunroof and enjoy the extra room and handling. Not to mention a little better acceleration and shorter stopping distance. That is what I plan to do.


EdCost doesn't appear to be a factor to the OP. Heat load? Sun shade. 100lbs for a moonroof? Not quite.

And again, there's a precious few who can make 100lbs actually make a difference on the track. So, unless the OP is making the V a dedicated track car, that point is also near moot...

tedcmiller
11-13-08, 09:06 AM
Guess I have to show my ignorance again. What is a "panorama roof?" And, how are people finding out about these so-called "options?" If this info is on the Cadillac web site, I can't find it.

thebigjimsho
11-13-08, 09:10 AM
Guess I have to show my ignorance again. What is a "panorama roof?" And, how are people finding out about these so-called "options?" If this info is on the Cadillac web site, I can't find it.It's an extra long moonroof with 2 panes of glass. 1, I believe moves...

caddynoob
11-13-08, 09:15 AM
The cost of the sunroof certainly isn't a factor here. I will probably take the car to the track once in a while. So, the extra headroom for the helmet is nice and improved handling is going to be nice.

According to car and driver, the manual with "giant sunroof" weights 4292lb. The weight for the manual from GM is ~4200lb. So, I guess that's where the 100lb. figure derived from.

Leeman
11-13-08, 09:22 AM
Real question is how much headroom do you lose with the sunroof ?

-- Lee

caddynoob
11-13-08, 09:24 AM
Guess I have to show my ignorance again. What is a "panorama roof?" And, how are people finding out about these so-called "options?" If this info is on the Cadillac web site, I can't find it.

It's called the Ultraview on the option list rather than panorama roof on the option list I think. I went to check out the panorama roof in person on a regular CTS and it wasn't quite the same as what I was expected.

Unlike the panorama roof on the E and S class. The rear glass is much smaller and is positioned between the front and rear seats. Where as the E and S class panorama roof option has the rear 2nd glass roof right on top of the passenger seat. Much more impressive.

thebigjimsho
11-13-08, 10:17 AM
The cost of the sunroof certainly isn't a factor here. I will probably take the car to the track once in a while. So, the extra headroom for the helmet is nice and improved handling is going to be nice.

According to car and driver, the manual with "giant sunroof" weights 4292lb. The weight for the manual from GM is ~4200lb. So, I guess that's where the 100lb. figure derived from.Yeah, but I believe C&D has the car weighted with gas filled and fluids filled where GM may be giving you dry weight. Never compare 1 entity's numbers with another. The moonroof will add a few pounds. I still doubt 100, though...

Albertan
11-13-08, 10:44 AM
Those of us in Canada can also forget about the extra heat load. We are more concerned with getting the block heater option. My concern with a 2 piece sunroof would be possible water leaks, rattling or wind noise. My V1 sunroof works just fine, but I know there had been many complaints in the past from various posters. I only ever open the roof to vent position. My wife opens it on sunny days then I'm in danger of a sunburned head unless I wear my special Vee hat. Ultimately, I would probably still get the sunroof in the new V just because!

caddynoob
11-13-08, 11:08 AM
Those of us in Canada can also forget about the extra heat load. We are more concerned with getting the block heater option. ...

So, you plan on driving your V in winter? I am not sure if I can find 18" rims that will clear the brembo brakes.

offsight204
11-13-08, 11:24 AM
I have Question has anyone seen this panorama roof on the new car.Is it like lexus where the whole top of the car is black?? or is the roof the same color as the car??? anyone

thebigjimsho
11-13-08, 11:27 AM
I have Question has anyone seen this panorama roof on the new car.Is it like lexus where the whole top of the car is black?? or is the roof the same color as the car??? anyoneThe roof is body color.

thebigjimsho
11-13-08, 11:29 AM
So, you plan on driving your V in winter? I am not sure if I can find 18" rims that will clear the brembo brakes.The wheels are 5 spoke. I'm sure vendors will make them...

V-Love
11-13-08, 11:40 AM
Cost doesn't appear to be a factor to the OP. Heat load? Sun shade. 100lbs for a moonroof? Not quite.

And again, there's a precious few who can make 100lbs actually make a difference on the track. So, unless the OP is making the V a dedicated track car, that point is also near moot...

Moot. I'll be tracking my car probably once a month. I still may get the moonroof. I use it on my 05 and love it. The only issue for me is headroom with the helmet. It was tight at Monticello. I'll bring my helmet to the showroom and try em both. This car is so fast, just get the moonroof for those nights when you actually remember its a Caddy.
If you were gonna make a dedicated track car there are better choices.

edsuski
11-13-08, 02:10 PM
Cost doesn't appear to be a factor to the OP. Heat load? Sun shade. 100lbs for a moonroof? Not quite.

And again, there's a precious few who can make 100lbs actually make a difference on the track. So, unless the OP is making the V a dedicated track car, that point is also near moot...

All available data is that the large glass roof adds 100 Lbs. - unless you have some actual data that suggests otherwise. As for real word impact - an extra 100 Lbs. will not only reduce acceleration and impact handling but, it will increase stopping distance by about 2.5 feet from 60 Mph. Anyone who has had a panic stop that resulted in only inches of distance between you and the car in front of you would appreciate the extra couple of feet.

Of course, it will ultimately be personal preference, but with cooled seats - I doubt I would ever open the sunroof.

Ed

thebigjimsho
11-13-08, 02:31 PM
The wheels are 5 spoke. I'm sure vendors will make them...5 lug, DAMMIT!

asabase
11-13-08, 03:13 PM
Anyone who has had a panic stop that resulted in only inches of distance between you and the car in front of you would appreciate the extra couple of feet.

Ed

Unfortunately that the guy behind you never has that extra 2.5 feet of stopping distance and ends up pushing you into the car in front anyway. :thepan:

thebigjimsho
11-13-08, 03:21 PM
As for real word impact - an extra 100 Lbs. will not only reduce acceleration and impact handling but, it will increase stopping distance by about 2.5 feet from 60 Mph. Anyone who has had a panic stop that resulted in only inches of distance between you and the car in front of you would appreciate the extra couple of feet.2.5 feet?!?! My God!!! 2.5 feet?!?! Wow! Well, that decides it. No '09V for me. In fact, I'll have to replace my '04 V with a new ZR1. And I'll have to replace my Town Car with a new ZR1. Even though I could only chauffeur 1 person at a time with little luggage, I'm sure they'd appreciate they'll be driven in a car with the shortest stopping distance possible.

Safety first! Even if it is a pointless, relative argument...

RightTurn
11-13-08, 04:35 PM
:food-snacking:

NorCalCTS
11-13-08, 07:14 PM
Here's another angle on having a sunroof. A friend of mine had a Pontiac firebird with T tops (yes, quite a while back). He was an avid auto-crosser. One day he found that cracks were forming at the corners near the thin metal strip in between the T-top panels in the roof. Given that the CTS-V could see a fair number of track days, what are the chances that cracks could appear at the corners of the sunroof opening in the roof? I know GM does a significant amount of "shaker" testing, but stresses generated at the track are way above the stresses associated with everyday driving.

edsuski
11-13-08, 08:16 PM
Here's another angle on having a sunroof. A friend of mine had a Pontiac firebird with T tops (yes, quite a while back). He was an avid auto-crosser. One day he found that cracks were forming at the corners near the thin metal strip in between the T-top panels in the roof. Given that the CTS-V could see a fair number of track days, what are the chances that cracks could appear at the corners of the sunroof opening in the roof? I know GM does a significant amount of "shaker" testing, but stresses generated at the track are way above the stresses associated with everyday driving.

Actually, when I asked my salesman what he would change about his 2008 CTS he said he would not have ordered the sunroof because it made noise.

caddynoob
11-14-08, 12:03 AM
Unfortunately that the guy behind you never has that extra 2.5 feet of stopping distance and ends up pushing you into the car in front anyway. :thepan:

LOL, sad but true.

Seattle CTS-V
11-14-08, 01:09 AM
Here's another angle on having a sunroof. A friend of mine had a Pontiac firebird with T tops (yes, quite a while back). He was an avid auto-crosser. One day he found that cracks were forming at the corners near the thin metal strip in between the T-top panels in the roof. Given that the CTS-V could see a fair number of track days, what are the chances that cracks could appear at the corners of the sunroof opening in the roof? I know GM does a significant amount of "shaker" testing, but stresses generated at the track are way above the stresses associated with everyday driving.


Are you really comparing the structural rigidity of the Pontiac Firebird T-top to the Cadillac CTS-V hardtop w/ sunroof?

Seattle CTS-V
11-14-08, 01:11 AM
Actually, when I asked my salesman what he would change about his 2008 CTS he said he would not have ordered the sunroof because it made noise.

So why doesn't he just get it fixed? All he would have to do is drop off his car at the Cadillac dealership on the way to work which, as luck would have it, is right next to his desk. :thepan:

caddynoob
11-14-08, 03:02 AM
So why doesn't he just get it fixed? All he would have to do is drop off his car at the Cadillac dealership on the way to work which, as luck would have it, is right next to his desk. :thepan:

It might not be something that's easy to fix or if there is a fix at all.

atdeneve
11-14-08, 04:58 AM
Actually, when I asked my salesman what he would change about his 2008 CTS he said he would not have ordered the sunroof because it made noise.


So why doesn't he just get it fixed? All he would have to do is drop off his car at the Cadillac dealership on the way to work which, as luck would have it, is right next to his desk. :thepan:

I'd venture to say that all 1st generation Vs had noises that came from the sunroof. If it wasn't rattling when open, which some people have had luck getting fixed by way of a replacement, it was the squeaking from the rubber seals when flexing the chassis (i.e., going into a driveway), which I don't know if you can really 'fix'.


Here's another angle on having a sunroof. A friend of mine had a Pontiac firebird with T tops (yes, quite a while back). He was an avid auto-crosser. One day he found that cracks were forming at the corners near the thin metal strip in between the T-top panels in the roof. Given that the CTS-V could see a fair number of track days, what are the chances that cracks could appear at the corners of the sunroof opening in the roof? I know GM does a significant amount of "shaker" testing, but stresses generated at the track are way above the stresses associated with everyday driving.


Are you really comparing the structural rigidity of the Pontiac Firebird T-top to the Cadillac CTS-V hardtop w/ sunroof?

I'd also venture to say that all first generation Vs with the sunroof had rippling occur in the sheet metal around the edges of the sunroof, if the vehicle experienced high enough torsional forces during cornering.

CIWS
11-14-08, 08:32 AM
I like / liked both of the sunroofs in my Vs. However I drove an 09 CTS yesterday (loaner) with the panoramic version, and I think I would skip it and just save the weight on the car (personal opinion).

tedcmiller
11-14-08, 10:32 AM
I have a Harley that I ride regularly. I get enough "exposure to the elements" that way. I ordered my 09 CTS-V with nothing in the roof.

caddynoob
11-14-08, 10:38 AM
I am glad to know that I am not the only one thinking about the no sunroof option.

RightTurn
11-14-08, 11:14 AM
I live in Houston and with the humidity a sun/moon roof is just for show IMO. I have one in my Tahoe and it has been opened ONCE in 5 months...then quickly closed. :lol:

thebigjimsho
11-14-08, 11:50 AM
Living in the Northeast, it has to be unbelievably hot to close the roof and turn on the AC. Otherwise, it is open almost every time I drive. Either open all the way or cracked open. On anything between 40-80 degrees, especially on a sunny day, it's open. My AC and heat is on only a fraction of the time in the V.

There is no way my cars do not have a moonroof...

NorCalCTS
11-14-08, 12:07 PM
Yes, I am comparing the Pontiac with the Cadillac simply because someone asked if they should choose the sunroof or not. Frankly, if ( or rather when! :-) ) I purchase a CTS-V, it would be seeing many days at the track. My list of decisions goes something like this: color? (probably silver to hide swirl marks over the long term), transmission (probably auto because a manual in everyday driving gets tiresome), sunroof (probably not because it adds weight, it subtracts from headroom especially when wearing a helmet, and it potentially catastrophically weakens the roof structure). Again, tracking a car is something out of the ordinary. Why do you suppose they require roll cages in even the low end racing series? Because the cars were never designed for the rigors of the race track. I agree that removing the sunroof is not a substitute for a roll cage, but based on my experience they're more trouble than they are worth. Finally, I admit that I am one voice in a sea of opinion, your mileage may vary, etc.

thebigjimsho
11-14-08, 12:18 PM
And I've had quite a few track days, on slicks no less, and I have ZERO moonroof issues. No leaks, no creaks, no squeaks. That should be a tag line.

And I have no issues with wearing a helmet, either.

caddynoob
11-14-08, 07:52 PM
And I've had quite a few track days, on slicks no less, and I have ZERO moonroof issues. No leaks, no creaks, no squeaks. That should be a tag line.

And I have no issues with wearing a helmet, either.

But the first gen CTS-V has a normal sized sunroof rather than the panorama roof right?

On another note, it is awesome that you are enjoying your car.

thebigjimsho
11-15-08, 12:40 AM
On another note, it is awesome that you are enjoying your car.Thank you. I do. Rather, did. It's sleeping for the winter...:o

urbanski
11-15-08, 03:10 AM
winter, what's that. it was 81 yesterday. roof ftw

CIWS
11-15-08, 08:22 AM
Thank you. I do. Rather, did. It's sleeping for the winter...:o

I would laugh at you, but as soon as I do it will come a freakish November sleetfest here and I'll slam the STS-V into something it wouldn't like.

thebigjimsho
11-15-08, 10:49 AM
I would laugh at you, but as soon as I do it will come a freakish November sleetfest here and I'll slam the STS-V into something it wouldn't like.Ic78Xqio69A

It's a Northern thang. You Southern wussies wouldn't understand...