: 3800-Produced, still no shipment/delivery date



dysert
11-10-08, 11:01 PM
I gather from another post the cars produced are sitting somewhere waiting for some type of engineering release? My car has been produced; I have the full VIN, and it appears to be like everyone else, in limbo. My local dealership says their GM rep has not been able to shed any light on the situation. Now with what is being reported as GM's imminent collapse/bankruptcy, I wonder if they will be able to get any transport companies to ship their cars? On tonight's news they say they will be out of cash before the year's end.

Vrocks
11-10-08, 11:14 PM
First of all, don't worry about a Ch 11 filing, our gov isn't that dumb.

They're probably being very careful with the release because they definitely don't need any more bad press (the media for the most part is unfairly tough on GM).

4DoorGTZ
11-11-08, 01:14 AM
They're holding them in ransom for another $10k per car :) $38mil, that'll give em what, another couple days of operating expenses?

Jpjr
11-11-08, 05:35 AM
First of all, don't worry about a Ch 11 filing, our gov isn't that dumb.

They're probably being very careful with the release because they definitely don't need any more bad press (the media for the most part is unfairly tough on GM).

What bad press are they going to get by releasing this car this week or next month?

The entire process has been unusually bad, with no coincidence that the V2 has to be one of the absolute last things any brass at GM care about right now.

MacOSR
11-11-08, 09:14 AM
First of all, don't worry about a Ch 11 filing, our gov isn't that dumb.


It would be nice if we were getting stock for our investments in GM if the government, we the people, bail them out. I have some companies that can use money...can I have a bailout to pay off some of my debt?

bruff1977
11-11-08, 09:46 AM
My V2 is in the same status. I believe all the first run V2s are. I hope to take delivery before the incentive expires... Maybe my much desired wood will be available then??

Cadillac Tony
11-11-08, 10:07 AM
The CTS-V was promised to be available in Fall/Winter 2008 guys- the factory started building them late October and they should start hitting the ground in December, so I still don't understand how this whole process has been "bad". The current incentive goes through the end of the year, so I wouldn't worry about it expiring if your car is already built.

Keep in mind that the majority of people looking to buy one of these cars has never discovered this place. They read the reviews in the magazines that said the car is coming in the Winter, so they'll come in to a Dealer in December and there the car will be. Those of us on this forum however, are watching the whole start of production under a magnifying glass, so while it seems like things are going slow, they actually haven't deviated from the normal process one bit here. A lot of people on here that are buying one of these cars have mentioned the better build quality in their BMW or MB compared to the old CTS-V, and hoped that the new one will be different. Well, the fact that Cadillac is holding the first couple hundred at the factory until they're certain that the quality is top notch should be reassuring to you all, since it shows that they care about delivering you a quality product.

Patience everybody. The car is almost here, just like they promised us. :)

tedcmiller
11-11-08, 10:28 AM
Delivery of the 2009 CTS-V has been slipped so many times, I have lost count. When I first starting reading about this car, it was suppose to be delivered as a mid-model year (2008) entry (read that as a 2009 car delivered in the middle of the 2008 model year). That would have been in the Mar.-Apr.-May 2008 time frame. Now delivery is all the way out in Dec. This is beginning to look more and more like a mid 2009 model year entry. Are they going to call it a 2010 CTS-V? Or maybe forget the whole thing.

Florian
11-11-08, 10:36 AM
It would be nice if we were getting stock for our investments in GM if the government, we the people, bail them out. I have some companies that can use money...can I have a bailout to pay off some of my debt?

at 3 bux a share, who wants it? :alchi: :bigroll:


F

Cadillac Tony
11-11-08, 10:43 AM
The only time frame Cadillac ever advertised was "Fall 2008" when the CTS-V site went live, which was later re-worded to "Winter '08" (and they arguably mean the same thing). Motor Trend and other magazines are the ones who got people thinking the car would hit in mid-08, but let's try and remember that they're the same people who swore up and down that the car was going to have an LS7 in it. ;)

CIWS
11-11-08, 11:12 AM
The only time frame Cadillac ever advertised was "Fall 2008" when the CTS-V site went live, which was later re-worded to "Winter '08" (and they arguably mean the same thing). Motor Trend and other magazines are the ones who got people thinking the car would hit in mid-08, but let's try and remember that they're the same people who swore up and down that the car was going to have an LS7 in it. ;)


:yeah:

Since the car was officially announced/reveled to the public at NASIS in Jan 08 it was told to begin production in Sept 08 and delivery in the fall. That got pushed back about a month, which pushed delivery back to "winter"

Wow a one month change on a newly redesigned car. Those bastards at Cadillac deserve to go out of business for such spotty product development . . .http://www.ciws.net/smiles/picard.gif

mcerino
11-11-08, 11:29 AM
I wonder when/if we finally get told the delay is a quality control issue. The only thing that makes sense is if the assembly line is functioning and there would seemingly only be a finite number of things to check then they must have identified an issue that needs to be resolved. Additionally, them sitting there is a finanacial nightmare given that situation, if they are already sold (which i don't doubt) then them sitting there instead of delivering them would be a bad decision since they sit as a liability versus as revenue.

urbanski
11-11-08, 11:42 AM
ibtl

Vrocks
11-11-08, 11:44 AM
What bad press are they going to get by releasing this car this week or next month?

The entire process has been unusually bad, with no coincidence that the V2 has to be one of the absolute last things any brass at GM care about right now.
What I meant was: they don't want to ship them ASAP and then find a small problem. Or if they did find a minor problem, they could send a bulletin to the dealers and have them fix the cars before delivering them to customers.

This happens all the time with new cars... they almost never ship them right away, even though there are thousands ready for shipping.

Vrocks
11-11-08, 11:47 AM
It would be nice if we were getting stock for our investments in GM if the government, we the people, bail them out. I have some companies that can use money...can I have a bailout to pay off some of my debt?
The money GM needs is peanuts compared to the financial companies, not that it makes it "right". They also wouldn't be in this situation if the market hadn't crashed due to shit heads leading those financial institutions...

I'd like a bailout too but it's more than likely that both you and I don't make a big enough ripple if we go under.

tedcmiller
11-11-08, 01:38 PM
I agree that the statements regarding the mid-08 (model year) availability originated with Motor Trend and others like them. However, Fall and Winter are two distinctly different seasons normally thought of as being separated by three months, unless you want to say that the last day of Fall and the first day of Winter are essentially the same day and at that time the two seasons are indistinguishable. The transition from Fall to Winter occurs around Dec. 21 in the northern hemisphere (winter solstice), so I guess that means that we will not see any 2009 CTS-V deliveries until at least the end of Dec.

lawfive
11-11-08, 01:58 PM
I agree that the statements regarding the mid-08 (model year) availability originated with Motor Trend and others like them. However, Fall and Winter are two distinctly different seasons normally thought of as being separated by three months, unless you want to say that the last day of Fall and the first day of Winter are essentially the same day and at that time the two seasons are indistinguishable. The transition from Fall to Winter occurs around Dec. 21 in the northern hemisphere (winter solstice), so I guess that means that we will not see any 2009 CTS-V deliveries until at least the end of Dec.

:yawn:

So if they beat December 21st and begin deliveries in the fall rather than in the winter, will you also give them credit for being three months earlier than they predicted?

Sheesh. Find something to distract you for a while. You could go blind staring at a lack of cars for a month.

BeastMaster
11-11-08, 02:35 PM
Believe me, GM wants these cars out ASAP - they need the cash and holding them in inventory ties up their money.

As for a Chapter 11, I would hate to see it, but at the same time, I would hate to see a bail out. Maybe the government should treat them the way their 'Customer Service' has treated some of us (at least I know I'm pissed).

Varsity
11-11-08, 03:45 PM
Its a bit like when they sold the STS here in the UK, there were thousand of them in a field in Holland, the grass grew and no one could find them again!

urbanski
11-11-08, 04:26 PM
:lol:

Dr Chill
11-11-08, 08:55 PM
This is very similar to the MB W211 E55 release in June 2003. I placed a deposit 2 years in advance for the supercharged AMG car. It was supposed to arrive mid term in the 2003 model year. It got delayed a few months and was finally released in June 2003 as a 2003 car. Since it was so late, I decided to wait until a 2004 model in Sept 2003. After attending the AMG Challenge at Daytona Speedway, I convinced the regional sales rep to re-allocate me a 2003 car ASAP. I received the car 3 weeks later. It had huge problems and they extended our warranty and maintenance. I will never again buy the first model when it rolls out of the factory (althought I almost did with the CTS-V2). I'll wait for a 2010.

edsuski
11-11-08, 09:27 PM
3800 cars at $60K each (min) represents 228 million dollars in potential sales. Could this really be possible? Where are they parked? Outside in the weather I imagine....

Any idea how many Cadillac dealers there are in the US?

Eldo1953
11-11-08, 10:09 PM
3800 is a code, not a quantity.

Dualcams34
11-11-08, 10:11 PM
Believe me, the people at the plant don't like to see the cars sitting outside waiting for shipment. This hold issue causes great stress on our system as well as the dealers trying to explain what is going on. Just what is going on? Yes GM does not want to screw this up. These cars are nothing like anything we have ever built. You just can't bolt on a sweet powertrain set up like the CTS V has and expect that everything will be correct. But let my tell you, from the plants eye view (me) this car is the finest built car ever coming out of Lansing. So to make a long story short. The engineering staff is going to do everything they can do to make sure the the car is built correctly. Thanks for buying American.

Jpjr
11-11-08, 10:44 PM
No time to make excuses, getting this launch done at or ahead of schedule before credit completely disappeared would have only helped.

LITTLEELVISDAN
11-11-08, 11:01 PM
If you are going after BMW M5 and MB 55 amg engineering, you had better get it right the first time out. The world is watching and won't hesitate to point out a rushed release (see Dodge Challenger launch/blunder) Rushing it will kill any future credibility. I used to run a QA group and hated the exec's when they wanted to rush out an inferior product JUST TO MAKE IT TO MARKET.... To find out months later it wasn't ready and the customers hated it and didn't come back for the next iteration. Customers wont tolerate "a second version" just to get it right.

I agree GM.... hold up until its ready..... and no sooner. A blunder here could mean the kiss of death. A lot of good hype is already out there, make sure you deliver even more than they see in print.

I am sure they are waiting on some of these test mules to come back in. Like the ZR1 that TopGear test drove. Where on the salt flats he said the 2nd gear syncro was giving out. And that is on a car that has to have less than 10k on it. I am sure GM will be taking a long hard look at that issue.

Who here wants a repeat of the rear diff issue the current V's are so famous for????? I don't. I want them to get it right the first time so I can be proud of not only having the fastest Saloon in the world BUT the best made as well.

NOW GET BUSY GETTING THE CTS-V COUPE RIGHT. If my timing is right the economy should be recovering just about the time you get it to market and Tony says I got first dibbs on his allocation (that is if F isn't already in front of me)

Vrocks
11-12-08, 01:10 AM
No time to make excuses, getting this launch done at or ahead of schedule before credit completely disappeared would have only helped.

Dude, layoff already. They're not making excuses and they never promised you'd have your V this week, next week or even the week after that.

Knuguy
11-12-08, 02:30 AM
Ever see Gung-Ho, they ran short on a few minor things like windshields and motors :)

anyhow, most likely cause for the delay, a few test mules from the production line are going through the ringer to check QC/Performance etc...give'em some time to check out the boy's work before releasing the car to the public. After all, the first ones out are being sought after by "car guys" and I am sure most of them are quite particular in their cars and fit/finish. Nothing like delivering a few hundred cars to educated, anal car freaks to soothe your nerves eh, GM?(and I use that term with the utmost respect....lol)

Varsity
11-12-08, 05:02 AM
:horse:
If you are going after BMW M5 and MB 55 amg engineering, you had better get it right the first time out. The world is watching and won't hesitate to point out a rushed release (see Dodge Challenger launch/blunder) Rushing it will kill any future credibility. I used to run a QA group and hated the exec's when they wanted to rush out an inferior product JUST TO MAKE IT TO MARKET.... To find out months later it wasn't ready and the customers hated it and didn't come back for the next iteration. Customers wont tolerate "a second version" just to get it right.

I agree GM.... hold up until its ready..... and no sooner. A blunder here could mean the kiss of death. A lot of good hype is already out there, make sure you deliver even more than they see in print.

I am sure they are waiting on some of these test mules to come back in. Like the ZR1 that TopGear test drove. Where on the salt flats he said the 2nd gear syncro was giving out. And that is on a car that has to have less than 10k on it. I am sure GM will be taking a long hard look at that issue.

Who here wants a repeat of the rear diff issue the current V's are so famous for????? I don't. I want them to get it right the first time so I can be proud of not only having the fastest Saloon in the world BUT the best made as well.

NOW GET BUSY GETTING THE CTS-V COUPE RIGHT. If my timing is right the economy should be recovering just about the time you get it to market and Tony says I got first dibbs on his allocation (that is if F isn't already in front of me)

Sort of think the above is somewhat bollox. These cars have been engineered over years and not weeks or months. The base car is already out there and has been for nearly a year now. The drive train is adaption of existing and there should be NO known problems and if there are, then that's what we have recal for. Remember the rear diff problems on the later CTS? Well that didnt happen from the start did it!

We are so wound up about the launch and delivery of this car we are now making up almost any reason for the delay, I bet GM watch this www and p1ss themselves laughing as it is only them who will ever know why!

;)

atdeneve
11-12-08, 05:28 AM
If you are going after BMW M5 and MB 55 amg engineering, you had better get it right the first time out. The world is watching and won't hesitate to point out a rushed release (see Dodge Challenger launch/blunder) Rushing it will kill any future credibility. I used to run a QA group and hated the exec's when they wanted to rush out an inferior product JUST TO MAKE IT TO MARKET.... To find out months later it wasn't ready and the customers hated it and didn't come back for the next iteration. Customers wont tolerate "a second version" just to get it right.

Ummm, the 09 V is the "next iteration". It is the "second version".:shhh: I guess all us V1 owners are just not gonna tolerate it...

bruff1977
11-12-08, 10:14 AM
Good catch Tony. I take everything MT publishes with a grain of salt... I'm with your train of thought about the meticulous QC, but when my dealer says he has no idea why they're being held, I tend to take a kneejerk reaction. Actually, the longer the wait the better for me.

Cadillac Tony
11-12-08, 10:27 AM
I am sure they are waiting on some of these test mules to come back in. Like the ZR1 that TopGear test drove. Where on the salt flats he said the 2nd gear syncro was giving out. And that is on a car that has to have less than 10k on it. I am sure GM will be taking a long hard look at that issue.

Who here wants a repeat of the rear diff issue the current V's are so famous for????? I don't. I want them to get it right the first time so I can be proud of not only having the fastest Saloon in the world BUT the best made as well.

This is an excellent point. We all want the car NOW (myself included, since I'd sure like to deliver some of my preorders), but I'd rather get them two weeks later with perfect fit and finish than get them today and have my customers upset because there's a build issue with their new car. There have been a few quality, fit/finish issues with some 08 CTSs (such as wavy A-pillar garnish and Ultraview seal issues), so I would imagine that part of the delay is checking for these known issues on the Vs before they roll out.

The whole idea of "just ship it as is and fix it through warranty" is what cost GM so much of their reputation. Some of the same people complaining about the wait have blasted GM for quality on these forums in the past, so I think you of all people would appreciate the fact that they're trying to send the Dealers a car that's 100%, instead of sending us a 95% car and requiring the customer to bring it back in for Service to fix right out of the gate.

bruff1977
11-12-08, 10:50 AM
Great point. I'll stop acting like a SB now.

CIWS
11-12-08, 11:26 AM
Believe me, the people at the plant don't like to see the cars sitting outside waiting for shipment. This hold issue causes great stress on our system as well as the dealers trying to explain what is going on. Just what is going on? Yes GM does not want to screw this up. These cars are nothing like anything we have ever built. You just can't bolt on a sweet powertrain set up like the CTS V has and expect that everything will be correct. But let my tell you, from the plants eye view (me) this car is the finest built car ever coming out of Lansing. So to make a long story short. The engineering staff is going to do everything they can do to make sure the the car is built correctly. Thanks for buying American.

Rock on Dualcams. Some of us would prefer that quality is throughly checked on the higher dollar products we purchase, thanks.

AZstar
11-12-08, 11:41 AM
Thanks for buying American.

I don't have $25B to bailout GM, but hopefully, by buying this CTS-V I am doing my little part to help save an essential American company.

dysert
11-12-08, 11:51 AM
As the author of the initial post in this thread there 2 things behind that initial thought worthy of clarification:
1) My dealer feels the pain. They are just as excited if not more so than me. They are a huge Cadillac dealer in Dallas and they have not been able to get answers. So they are frustrated and therefore so are their customers. Someone should communicate with them one way or another, speculation is harmful, the truth is what is needed.
2) I am concerned that "getting it right" potentially means fixing it after my car has been produced. That philosophy is what put American car makers behind the quality curve to begin with. In an ideal world they would have collected all data needed within reason to manufacture this car and would have fixed it before production began. On the other hand if it is not a design or supplier issue, and a line issue, I may pass on my initial car and wait a while before I buy. For me this does not instill confidence in my particular car, it raises doubt. Convince me that this is some grand plan in pursuit of quality and I will feel better. In the absence of information, history says this is just another example of sloppy management by today’s standards. Just my .02 cents, I’m trying to buy American.

Cadillac Tony
11-12-08, 12:04 PM
The only nagging issue I've seen with CTSs so far has been a supplier quality issue with a certain interior trim piece being poorly manufactured in some of them. The problem might not manifest until the part is installed, so I would imagine that's one of the things they're checking. It's also possible that they may be doing a higher level of "general" inspections (such as paint finish) due to the V's high profile- nothing worse than a few of the early adopters getting a car with a fisheye or sand grain in the paint.

The people that want this car the worst are the ones buying them, but the next most eager people are us Salespeople. We don't get paid until the car drives off the lot, so we want them just as bad as you all do. :)

ryannel2003
11-12-08, 12:14 PM
My boss has told me my dealership will be one of the first in North Carolina to get a V.

I'd personally Cadillac get it right and do a more thorough job with the V than the regular CTS, which has had a few mishaps.

chris1268
11-12-08, 12:31 PM
Just a thought here but why are they still building cars if they are having QC doubts? Wouldn't it be more logical to spend the time to fix the issues before continuing to build cars that need to be "fixed". My car has been produced for 2 weeks already so to me it sounds like either a pretty serious QC issue or maybe several minor ones. I am not particularly happy with the thought of my car being housed outside in a lot with hundreds of other cars battling the elements - I sure hope it doesn't hail anytime soon :(. I am glad though that they are taking the time to make sure that these cars are checked and rechecked before leaving the plant.

Cadillac Tony
11-12-08, 12:40 PM
I feel everyone's frustration, but this is a normal occurrence getting blown a little out of proportion just because there's more people "waiting" for this car than normal. The new DTS was delayed an entire month for QC checks back in 2006, at which time there were several hundred of them sitting at the plant while they got hand checked and certified. No one noticed though, since there weren't hordes of people eagerly waiting for the new DTS they preordered.

New models, even when they're variants of an existing unit, get a lot of attention before getting released into the wild. This happens all the time, with every manufacturer, not just GM or the CTS-V.

Albertan
11-12-08, 01:21 PM
Many people talk about fit and finish of BMW and MB as being the holly grail of interiors. I'm in the plastic manufacturing business and happened to come across the following letter in a trade magazine:
"I have been a design engineer for over 44 years. My wife insists on buying BMW and Mercedes Benz cars because she needs the image. These two cars were the worst cars I ever owned. The plastic parts are poorly designed, both as parts and choice of materials. I have written letters to both companies, never to get satisfaction. I am surprised they are still in business! Can you wise these people up?"
So maybe we should insist that we have the "cadillac" of interiors on this new V from a quality standpoint!

MacOSR
11-12-08, 02:36 PM
Remember the rear diff problems on the later CTS? Well that didnt happen from the start did it!


Yes it did.

caddiedrummer
11-12-08, 02:55 PM
This reminds me of precisely what I went through when I preordered a new generation C6 Vette in 04. The car was built and sat in a lot in Bowling Green for weeks for QC checks before delivery. The Vette guys were getting pi$$ed with the cars sitting out so long. I have to say when it arrived it was fine and I am very particular. Same thing happened with the 08 Viper--QC and certification issues delays .

I feel for Tony and my dealer. They are having to slug it out with owners being on the front line with little communication from Caddy.

As regards fit/finish, I hope this changes but fit/finish of Caddies ain't near BMW. I have owned several of each.

The biggest difference I have found is my M5 even after thousands of miles is solid, and quiet with no rattles. My STS, XLR and XLR-V were noisy after the first few thousand miles. The interior, fit/finish on the XLR-V was a complete joke given that they tried to make it a $100,000 halo car (I waited 6 months and paid 77K) It was a damn good looking car, though.

But, I will trade my Bimmer because I try to buy American. Hope springs eternal

ryannel2003
11-12-08, 04:24 PM
I feel everyone's frustration, but this is a normal occurrence getting blown a little out of proportion just because there's more people "waiting" for this car than normal. The new DTS was delayed an entire month for QC checks back in 2006, at which time there were several hundred of them sitting at the plant while they got hand checked and certified. No one noticed though, since there weren't hordes of people eagerly waiting for the new DTS they preordered.

New models, even when they're variants of an existing unit, get a lot of attention before getting released into the wild. This happens all the time, with every manufacturer, not just GM or the CTS-V.

It shows with the DTS; they are much better built than the old Deville's were.