: 09 CTS-V Test Drive



cjwolverine
11-08-08, 03:01 AM
Hi all, it's my first post. Please be gentle. I'm looking to purchase an 09 CTS -V. That's why I joined the forum to gather info (although I'm 90% decided). Here is my problem..

I spoke with 2 different dealers in my area today and they both had next to zero info on pricing and options. They also told me that they don't even get to drive the car so therefore I would not be able to test drive one because anything they had coming in was already sold. But they were both happy to take my order.

Do you guys really buy cars this way? without a test drive? Now I'm a well qualified buyer and I'm not looking for a free joy ride. I actually plan on purchasing the car when my Audi lease is up in a couple of months, but I would like to be sure before laying out $65k. My last couple of cars have been German and I'm ready to go back to domestic and the V is my choice, but I'd like to have some idea of what I'm buying. I want to compare it with what I'm used to. Specs on a fact sheet are great, but if I'm not comfortable or don't like the feel of the car then I may simple just not like it.

Both dealers I spoke with acted very aloof like I was asking quite a bit to test drive a car I plan to buy. Is this the norm? If they really expect me to purchase the car without a test, then I guess they've lost a sale. Is there some sort of secret Caddy code word or handshake that I don't know? I'm confused.

cj

LV_V
11-08-08, 04:34 AM
Yesterday I asked my local dealer when the 09 CTS-V is going to be available and they said it didn't start production until mid-December. They also said that each of their salesmen already had lists of buyers and it would be months before I could even see one, let alone order one. I am sure glad they are trying hard to make a sale :bigroll: :bigroll:

I think its quite obvious why GM is going down in flames...

dqw1
11-08-08, 09:39 AM
My dealership only plans on getting V's in that have been purchased so there will be no test drives. The owner no longer feels he should stock high end cars on his lot that will sit there for months without serious buyers while he eats the cost. They learned that lesson from the past V series models and other models. People wanted to test drive more than they wanted to buy.
Oh yeah, the V driving event being held this weekend was they way to get a test drive.

cjwolverine
11-08-08, 10:28 AM
My dealership only plans on getting V's in that have been purchased so there will be no test drives. The owner no longer feels he should stock high end cars on his lot that will sit there for months without serious buyers while he eats the cost. They learned that lesson from the past V series models and other models. People wanted to test drive more than they wanted to buy.
Oh yeah, the V driving event being held this weekend was they way to get a test drive.


It looks like I'm not the only one. I didn't get an invitation to the event in NY and I couldn't go this weekend even if I did. I'm not very comfortable buying something like this blind.

Just when I was ready to come back to buying American my first experience is already a downer. They do all of the marketing to convince me to make the change and they produce a world class vehicle to compete with what I've been previously buying and now I can't even buy one. I cannot imagine a company being so bad that they burn through 2.5 billion per month last quarter. But now I can see how they might accomplish it. Get it together GM! The next generation Audi or BMW will probably trump the V anyway. It's reign at the top will probably last about 6 months. Maybe its a sign that I shouldn't buy this car?

Kudos to you fellas with the confidence to buy a car based on a bunch of internet brochures. I still need to see it, touch it, try it, before I buy it. If anyone knows a dealership willing to sell a car with some straight answers on options, pricing, and delivery dates, please let me know.

ExtraV
11-08-08, 10:56 AM
I can tell buying new, limited production cars as soon as they hit the showrooms is not for you. You should move along to something else and come back in a year. Dealers will have a demo or used one on the lot by then.

dqw1
11-08-08, 11:03 AM
You can buy one. There are some supporting vendors on this site (Cadillac Tony is one) that might be able to help you out but you would need to talk with them directly.

Ketzer
11-08-08, 11:08 AM
CJ,
I think things at the dealers will change a lot once the car is out, and you've got a couple months anyway. Look how many super rare GT-Rs there are on ebay right now, there were a ton at SEMA. Don't fret about all the bs they are talking right now. Most don't know any more about cars than my cat. That being said, there are dealers that post often on here that ARE passionate about their job. If our dealer cannot earn our business, we may fly to Florida.

We rented a new regular CTS for a week in Vegas to get the "feel" of the car. I recommend this, then you know if you like the fit/finish and handling of the car. The V will be twice as nice.

Jeff-

offsight204
11-08-08, 11:26 AM
Not only with you is going to be a problem with a few people..

thebigjimsho
11-08-08, 02:37 PM
I can tell buying new, limited production cars as soon as they hit the showrooms is not for you. You should move along to something else and come back in a year. Dealers will have a demo or used one on the lot by then.Exactly! Come on guys, you're complaining about a car that's not even at the showroom yet.

When I bought my '04 new, I was given a deal. I got mine for sticker but no test drive. Some guys were paying $10G above sticker on the west coast. And why should my dealer allow test drives if they were selling their early allocation without the risk of one?

Do you think that if you asked to test drive a Malibu or Escalade you wouldn't get one? Of course not. Right now, all the early ones will be sold without a problem. Yet, there will be dealerships out there that will have test drives, you've just got to find them. But don't come here with this crap that the reason the American auto industry is losing billions of $$$ each quarter because they don't allow test drives for just released specialty cars. Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

If you want to test drive the new V before buying it, make a lot of calls. Or wait a few months. Your "lost" sale will be mopped up by a lot of eager buyers...


And take my word for it, unless you're kooky with weird tastes, the V is a slam dunk, home run, touchdown and hat trick all rolled into one...

noelvm
11-08-08, 03:45 PM
I never drove my Gen II Lightning and neither did most of the people that bought them. They came in, went to the showroom floor, were sold and delivered.

When they came out in 99 I wanted a red one bad. I found one in Houston and they wanted 5K over window sticker. I sold my Gen 1 and delivered it at the dealership where the gen II was. The salesman was watching me as I unloaded my stuff and got a cashiers check.


I walked up to him and said "If you think you are going to get 5K over window out of me, just call me a cab. We finally settled on 1K over window. So I'm in the Finance office, hey "Don't you have some blank forms I can just sign so I can get out of here??

I got the truck at 3:30. Rush hour traffic in Houston. The last thing they said was don't floor it when you make the right turn leaving here because it will swap ends. :D

It was at least 20 minutes before I found an opening on the freeway to floor it.
Weeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!! It made my _______ hard. What a truck!!!!! I still have it.

Test drive?????????????????????? Just deliver the car, give me the damn keys and get out of my way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

noelvm
"Drive it like you stole it!"

cjwolverine
11-08-08, 04:06 PM
Thanks guys all good advice. I do have some time, so I'll wait. And just too be clear I know the american auto industry problem much more than "not allowing test drives" . Yes I know how stupid that sounds and that's not what I said. It was just another example of a much deeper problem.

Read between the lines. It is an attitude, a perception, a lack of service. When someone calls to inquire about a car over $60k you don't give them a take it or leave it attitude. If I was not buying a car TODAY the salemen had no interest in speaking with me or even giving me a heads up on when I may be able to get my hands on one. Am I wrong to expect a bit of service? The foreign car dealers in my area will bend over backwards, drive a car to my office and let me have it for days at a time. They will pick up the car I purchased and drop off loners while mine is getting an oil change. I don't lift a finger. There is value to that type of service. Sometimes you time and the attention to detail is worth more than the raw horsepower one car produces over another. The attitude I have received thus far was, "Buy it now or stop wasting my time". Where is the sales in salesman?

My comment about GM losing money was because they don't do things right. They don't do a lot of things right, not just offering test drives on a new and exciting, limited production vehicle.

I still love the car (at least what I've read about the car, because it looks like I can't see one, until I buy one). Don't get me wrong, but my return to the american car is putting the same taste in my mouth as when I left. All the reasons I stopped buying them years ago seem to still be there. They have done some excellent marketing and made great strides in quality, design, excitement, etc. But when I go to the dealer I feel like nothing has changed and the marketing is just a smoke screen for the same old crap. I hope I'm wrong and will probably still buy the car. I'll just have to wait my turn, I guess. My company didn't loose 2.5 billion a month last quarter and our business model is exactly the opposite of american auto manufacturing.

I've learned more on this forum in a few days than I expect many sales people know. I know there are reputable dealers out there. I may have to travel a bit to find one. My local dealers have made it clear that they really aren't interested.

thebigjimsho
11-08-08, 04:38 PM
The foreign car dealers in my area will bend over backwards, drive a car to my office and let me have it for days at a time. They will pick up the car I purchased and drop off loners while mine is getting an oil change. I don't lift a finger. There is value to that type of service. Sometimes you time and the attention to detail is worth more than the raw horsepower one car produces over another. The attitude I have received thus far was, "Buy it now or stop wasting my time". Where is the sales in salesman?

The problem is as much with the American consumer as anything else. Those foreign dealers raked you over the coals with the purchase price of the vehicle. They don't do discounts and they definitely don't do rebates or "employee pricing".

GM is making world beating vehicles right now. But they have to deal with an American public that feels ripped off if they don't get a bevy of deals and cuts to get closer to "invoice". It's all a huge game right now. Add the economy issues and how can domestic auto-makers treat you the way I know they'd LOVE to treat you...

Dr Chill
11-08-08, 07:49 PM
It's not a foreign vs domestic issue. It's an individual dealership thing. My local BMW and MB dealerships are ok selling, but service sucks. The local Ford, Chevy and Caddy dealerships are better. If you look hard enough in January or so, there will be unsold CTS-V's to be test driven. If you live in a less populated area, you might have to travel to drive one, but they'll be there. It is not a very limited production vehicle like the ZR1.

cjwolverine
11-08-08, 08:56 PM
The problem is as much with the American consumer as anything else. Those foreign dealers raked you over the coals with the purchase price of the vehicle. They don't do discounts and they definitely don't do rebates or "employee pricing".

GM is making world beating vehicles right now. But they have to deal with an American public that feels ripped off if they don't get a bevy of deals and cuts to get closer to "invoice". It's all a huge game right now. Add the economy issues and how can domestic auto-makers treat you the way I know they'd LOVE to treat you...

For the record I made a few more calls and I think I found a sales department I can deal with. I sat down with the manager and he was very upfront with what he had ordered, when he expected them etc. etc.

Now to address the pricing issue above... I happen to appreciate a price being set and that is it. The american consumer is not to blame here. It is so frustrating to haggle till you are blue in the face and feel you are getting ripped off. There are $8500 rebates on Denalis right now. How pissed off would you be if you purchased a Denali last month at MSRP. Every single person knows that every single car has so much room in it for rebate, discount, employee pricing etc. that we do expect it now, because the CAR MAKERS offered it. The foreign companies don't offer it and we don't expect it. It is an amazing exercise in supply and demand. I won't go into the details, because it is so elementary to anyone on this forum. Do not say it is the consumer's fault GM can't sell cars. When I walk onto a lot and see hundreds of cars with dust on them and a salesman tells me how hot they are selling and we need to start negotiating at MSRP I can only chuckle. Hell yeah I expect a rebate and employee pricing because the car maker has a proven track record of offering it every couple of months.

I also know that supply and demand is working against me for the new V. I can't seem to find one that isn't spoken for already. I didn't want to test drive someone else's car they had ordered. I wouldn't want someone driving mine either. I was purely asking if I was the only one who had run into this. Then the discussion turned to how poorly sales staff is willing to treat people. Then we got to talking about foreign and domestic. I don't want to have a foreign vs. domestic debate. I'm only sharing MY experience thus far.

I know GM is making world beaters and with the V (or the regular CTS or STS) they have brought me back around. Like I said before, I'm still going to buy the car, I just want a little service to go with it and I really must see it, feel it, touch it etc. And like I said earlier, I think I found a reputable dealer finally!

Dualcams34
11-08-08, 10:10 PM
We are building the V's at this time. There are about 200 of them in a storage area at the assembly plant. The lead engineering folks have not blessed this car for launch at this time and all the cars are on hold at least for 1 more week.
We are building 2000 of them before the end of the year

ExtraV
11-08-08, 10:43 PM
Why are 200 built cars sitting in storage? At this stage, its hard to make an engineering change to the car. If I was a large stock holder at GM, I would have heads rolling knowing that 200 sold cars are just sitting around why the company is desperate for cash.

b4z
11-09-08, 09:20 AM
Usually executives will drive the first 200 or so cars for several months then these cars will be released to dealers after about 6 months.
Frist gen CTS was released to the public January 2, 2002 as a 2003 model. Summer of 2002 i saw and executive car at my dealer(remember the orange color?) with a November 2001 build date.

racemarine
11-12-08, 08:43 PM
I was one of the fortunate few invited to the Monticello Motor Club last weekend. This is a far better car in handling, power and creature comforts than my neighbor’s 2008 V10 M5 and with $35K left over. I was hooked. I dropped into my local, friendly Caddy dealer Monday morning and bought the first car coming to his store. Paying MSRP for manual transmission with Recaros, Nav and roof.

RS3racer
11-17-08, 09:55 AM
I also attended the Monticello event. All the cars handle very well in the rain. I drove the manual V and found the shifter to be positioned too far to the rear however, I wouldn't hesitate buying an automatic. My local dealer has no information on pricing and availability.

jvp
11-17-08, 10:18 AM
My local dealer has no information on pricing and availability.

For what it's worth: Edmund's has all of the MSRP information for the V up on their site. The only things not listed are the track brakes and diff cooler options.

jas

Uncle Meat
11-17-08, 10:29 AM
It is not a very limited production vehicle like the ZR1.Just for S&G's I looked and there are currently 39 ZR1's sitting on dealer lots unsold as of today. You should see how many '08 & '09 ZO6's are sitting on lots right now!

If the economy keeps on this downward spiral I foresee heavy discounts on the new V before too long just like the deals currently offered on the 'Vette's...

U.M.

LITTLEELVISDAN
11-17-08, 12:38 PM
Just for S&G's I looked and there are currently 39 ZR1's sitting on dealer lots unsold as of today. You should see how many '08 & '09 ZO6's are sitting on lots right now!

If the economy keeps on this downward spiral I foresee heavy discounts on the new V before too long just like the deals currently offered on the 'Vette's...

U.M.It appears the ZR1's are going to sit there a while. every one I have seen is being offered at 30k & up OVER sticker.

Problem is I don't know if I would come off (invoioce Z06) 71k for a ZR1. I know 71k would be a freekin good deal for a ZR1 but right now I would probably pass on buying it.

That right there is the problem car companies are having trouble..

Vrocks
11-17-08, 01:06 PM
The economy doesn't need to spiral down any further for customers to find deals on a CTS-V. I wouldn't correlate the number of ZR1s on the lot with how sales of the new V will go too much. Also, according to the guys on the corvetteforum, most of those listed on that site are sold (no way of knowing if that's true).

The new V has strong selling points, now that it's the top dog in the high performance sedan segment. It's also priced much lower than the competition and looks, better but the overall economy will keep sales lower than they would have been last year.

If the dealers don't order any due to a fear of a lack of sales, then the price won't drop too much. I don't think that'll really happen because the CTS-V is Cadillac's flagship. It offers an auto and a ton of refinment, so I could see people buying this car because they see it as a high end V8 powered Cadillac - not just a high perfomance V.

I think it's funny that Cadillac has any cars priced above it, since it's head and shoulders above any other car they make (a short wheelbase Escalade Platinum with LED headlights is a sweet ride as well - wish they'd offer the hybrid powertrain in it....)

Uncle Meat
11-17-08, 02:52 PM
I wasn't trying to correlate ZR1 sales with the CTS-V. I was just posting the numbers because before the ZR1 was actually released the word was the first half of the scheduled production run was already spoken for regardless of mark-ups... now look at all of them just sitting out there unsold. I'll bet they will be down to MSRP before the end of the 1st qtr '09.

Either way I'm still going to sit back and take a wait & see attitude on purchasing my V. I don't have to be the 1st , 2nd, or even the 3rd person on my block to own one. They will be discounted just like everything else currently sitting on GM lots, it's just a matter of time which is definitely on my side.

U.M.

Vrocks
11-17-08, 03:09 PM
I wasn't trying to correlate ZR1 sales with the CTS-V. I was just posting the numbers because before the ZR1 was actually released the word was the first half of the scheduled production run was already spoken for regardless of mark-ups... now look at all of them just sitting out there unsold. I'll bet they will be down to MSRP before the end of the 1st qtr '09.

Either way I'm still going to sit back and take a wait & see attitude on purchasing my V. I don't have to be the 1st , 2nd, or even the 3rd person on my block to own one. They will be discounted just like everything else currently sitting on GM lots, it's just a matter of time which is definitely on my side.

U.M.

If you want a "discount" you're probably not going to need to wait more than 1 month, if that. Then again, you can get a discount on any car being prodcued by any car manufacturer (including Ferrari). You know the old 2 year waiting list for a car like the F430? Well, now you can get one almost, immediately...

Uncle Meat
11-17-08, 03:22 PM
Amazing how the market did a 180 so quickly!

U.M.

JEM
11-17-08, 09:41 PM
I ordered my M5 without having driven one, in December of '99. Of course, we already had a '98 540i so it wasn't a completely new vehicle to me. We'd ordered it Euro Delivery so the first time I drove the car was in the driveway of the Munich delivery center.

I wouldn't order a new CTS-V without having at least driven a current CTS, which ought to be easy enough to do. Recaro hasn't yet built a seat that doesn't fit me reasonably well. If I do pop for a V, it's going to be a slushbox this time (I'm not a three-pedal purist) so I'm not quite so concerned about control efforts and pedal positions as I'd be with a manual-transmission car.

Right now, I'd like to see the markets get back a little ground first...

billc83
11-17-08, 10:20 PM
A car is not a toaster. I don't make toast everyday, and if the toaster is shot, it is cheap to replace. A car is a major purchase, which requires a lot of thought (and money) to make.

That being said, I would NEVER buy a car without taking a test drive. It won't let me know every nuance of the driving experience, but I can determine whether or not I could live with my choice.

It's a little off topic, but I got to test drive an '08 CTS when it was still fairly new. My Deville was in for service and I struck up a conversation with one of the salesmen, and initially denied taking a ride because there was no way I would be buying that day and didn't want to waste hisw time. The service took longer than expected and next thing you know I was in the driver's seat. I didn't buy, but was surprised I got a test drive. Maybe it was a slow day? :D

cjwolverine
11-18-08, 04:42 PM
A car is not a toaster. I don't make toast everyday, and if the toaster is shot, it is cheap to replace. A car is a major purchase, which requires a lot of thought (and money) to make.

That being said, I would NEVER buy a car without taking a test drive. It won't let me know every nuance of the driving experience, but I can determine whether or not I could live with my choice.

It's a little off topic, but I got to test drive an '08 CTS when it was still fairly new. My Deville was in for service and I struck up a conversation with one of the salesmen, and initially denied taking a ride because there was no way I would be buying that day and didn't want to waste hisw time. The service took longer than expected and next thing you know I was in the driver's seat. I didn't buy, but was surprised I got a test drive. Maybe it was a slow day? :D



Thanks Bill- That was my experience when starting the thread, only I got the cold shoulder over the phone. The salesmen I spoke with were clearly not interested in giving me information or speaking with me about options and pricing. I was amazed at the lack of simple politeness. They both expected me to put a deposit down and order a car without seeing it or even knowing the price.

Then someone suggested, I'm not the type of buyer to buy a limited production car. I just wondered how many of you are that type of buyer. It appears there are several of each type of buyer in this forum which gives me comfort.

I know the economy is rough, especially here in Michigan, but everyone I know has a car if not two. The fact is they are buying cars, they are just not GM cars. I was amazed in this climate how I was treated when I basically called up and said, "I'd like to buy of V from you, can you give me some info?". I made the suggestion that this may be part of GM's problem and was blasted.

All that being said, I was invited to and Escalade Hybrid unveiling wine and cheese party tomorrow night and they are going to have a couple of Vs at the dealership. I will also wait for the hype to die down and either get GMS from a family member or wait for the discounts that are sure to come.

Kudos to you guys who buy the cars sight unseen and pay MSRP. I know what its like to want something and be unable to wait. But I for one enjoy my current car and have another I can drive until the price is right. In Michigan I'm only going to drive it 8 months anyway so I'm in no hurry.

Thanks for all the info.
cj

Uncle Meat
11-18-08, 05:14 PM
Never mind.

Radguy
11-20-08, 10:12 AM
CJ, here's a thought.
As a baseline, try out the CTS 3.6DI RWD. I took delivery of one 10 days ago (the AWD model) and so far I'm very impressed! GM really did build a world class car! You can get an idea of how the "lesser" model drives and handles and then calibrate up one or two logarithmic scales for the V version.

I REALLY wanted a V, but it's not in the equation right now as I need an AWD vehicle.

I'm watching the V forum with great envy as I see the cars ready for delivery, and imagine the lucky folks driving them shortly. If ever GM ever decides to make an AWD version of the V, the day I find out, I'll be at the dealer putting down my deposit and trading in the CTS, no question--no hesitation--test drive or not!!