: Eh, I've changed my mind on the '09 V...



thebigjimsho
11-07-08, 02:25 PM
So I know a lot of you will probably drag the cursor over the title to scour what the topic will be about before opening. Well, I hate to ruin it for you guys but you'll have to actually open this topic...





So I got to drive a new CTS-V at Monticello Motor Club today. And it was still wet even though the rain held off. OldRoadDawg was awesome enough to send me an invite and it was a fun time. But about the CTS-V.

Yeah, I don't want the manual.

Because the automatic royally kicks ass. Seriously. I mean, I've driven car rentals that had el cheapo manumatic shifting and I don't know why. I mean, what's the point?

I've always been harping on manual shifting but really, I just want full control and I thought I'd have to wait for a Ferrari type 2 pedal shift. But the CTS-V automatic is very good. VERY good. we took the CTS-V on the North course. We started with regular CTSs on a tiny loop and that was a good warm-up. Our last sessions were with XLR-Vs on a bigger loop and I must say, I really enjoyed how lively those cars were. The power was excellent even if the manumatic feature wasn't as good as the CTS-V.

As for how the new CTS-V drives, it's true you deal feel the added heft when behind the wheel at first. But the car just grips and grips in the corners. I had 2 very nice women in the V who each drove 2 laps first, with an instructor in the front passenger street. 1 lap to practice and then 1 at higher speeds. When it was my turn, the ladies decided to step out and it was myself and the instructor. Since I could see the track first, i got some good speed on warmup and the instructor trusted me to dig deep. On the backstretch of the North course, I was deep into 4th and we waited until the last second to brake...and it was still not late enough. Those huge brakes will make the V1s brakes look inferior. And that's saying something.

After the frontstraight, you have a tight right uphill with a very tight left-right to a long, sweeping righthander. The V was very turnable and even tossable through that quick S. And the V is indeed sneaky fast. It's one thing to say it, it's another thing to feel it. It's a definitive departure from the thrust and hard visceral edge of the V1, but this V is going to appeal to gearheads and the casual funseeker. With R-compounds and more aggressive pads, I can't imagine.

The V is good enough that I'd think long and hard of trading in the V1 if it came down to that.

And the throttle blip on the automatic will make anyone look like Andy Pilgrim. You'd have to be a master of heel and toe to even come close. When I told Andy I may have to forego the ego and get an automatic, he said I should. And he said he would do the same, as well. High praise if I do say so.


Monticello is an uber first-class facility and it's not even fully built yet. Their temporary clubhouses put to shame most track's permanent ones. I don't think I would say it's as good as VIR for track layout but it's close. And the facilities will blow VIR away when finished. And maybe they'll have signs for the track. They don't yet. And it was a bitch to find.

I had to get up at 3AM to make it down in time this morning. And I'm tired now. But man, was it ever worth it! Thanks again OldRoadDawg!!!

Vrocks
11-07-08, 02:34 PM
Thanks for the review, I'm looking forward to a test drive in the next few weeks.

It sounds like the 6spd in the V is vastly superior to the one in the regular CTS that I have. Although everyone that reviews it is driving it on a track and not on regular roads... I hate the way the torque converter locks and unlocks abruptly. After a medium-hard stop to around 1 or 2 mph it's rough and throttle tip in is very abrupt when I'm rolling around at a few mph. Even if I would drive around a track faster with the auto, I just can't buy it if it doesn't have the locked in feeling that you get with a manual.

Cadillac Tony
11-07-08, 02:39 PM
Great write up, Jim. :thumbsup:

thebigjimsho
11-07-08, 02:40 PM
Thanks for the review, I'm looking forward to a test drive in the next few weeks.

It sounds like the 6spd in the V is vastly superior to the one in the regular CTS that I have. Although everyone that reviews it is driving it on a track and not on regular roads... I hate the way the torque converter locks and unlocks abruptly. After a medium-hard stop to around 1 or 2 mph it's rough and throttle tip in is very abrupt when I'm rolling around at a few mph. Even if I would drive around a track faster with the auto, I just can't buy it if it doesn't have the locked in feeling that you get with a manual.I wish I could've driven the manual to compare and gotten to drive the automatic in lazy, around town mode to find that out.

But on the track, it's a killer!

thebigjimsho
11-07-08, 02:41 PM
Great write up, Jim. :thumbsup:It took me forever to get the excited babble into congruent sentences...

lawfive
11-07-08, 03:15 PM
James,

Welcome to the slushy dark side. We're glad you came over!

LawFive

CIWS
11-07-08, 03:36 PM
Bah Slushy Sissy :helpless:








;)

NormV
11-07-08, 05:42 PM
Nice to the comparison from a current owner, Jim.

Remember too that you don't drive a stock V1. :)


Norm

readyact
11-07-08, 06:37 PM
Thank for the reviews guys. Funny thing is I used to live in White Plains and Yonkers in Weschester County, NY, but I moved back to Ohio in 2005. Would have been fun to take the short drive up and took the Vs around the track. Oh well guess I'll have to wait until mine is delivered.

OldRoadDawg
11-07-08, 08:43 PM
I don't have a lot to add to what Jim posted. I wish now that I had chosen the auto to drive for the experience, but the manual shifts VERY smooth.

Brakes....:eek: Dang they haul that beast down fast - and that was with 3 of us in there.

You guys that are taking delivery soon are going to love the GenII. So tight and refined... and then you get on it and you can't believe how quickly it takes you to the next turn in the track... or restaurant, soccer game or whatever.

A very, very impressive product that Cadillac is producing.

The XLR-V's were a hoot. I jumped in with the instructor in the trail car after Jim and I did our laps. I asked him to show me the best line. That was an eye-opening experience, considering that he was doing it while steering with one hand, while gesturing and pointing out the turn-in cones in the horizon with the other hand, while talking a mile-a-minute about loading the suspension, comparing that track to some others,etc. and talking on the radio to the lead car. And doing it all just as smooth as silk.

We even got a cool pull-over 'V' jacket as a parting gift. All the personnel there treated us great. Beautiful facility. A great day.

Gotta go have another glass of wine, mellow out and start calculating the days until I can stretch the budget to include a V2.

CVP33
11-07-08, 10:25 PM
Man, I shouldn't have read this.

$62K - $6K GMS - $2K rebate - $10K trade the tahoe = $44K net price. Oh this is bad. :banghead:

jimbo1320
11-07-08, 11:27 PM
Just got back from Monticello and had a blast. I also signed up for the Auto. They really let us put the "V" to the test, saw 118 on the back strech though my guest hit 120, nice. The XLR was sidways a couple of times, I just don't know why. My passenger was ready to bail. The day was a blast, Thanks Cadillac.
As far a general info about the "V". I was told the pricing for the automatic will be out next week but expect to pay between $500 and $1000 more than the stick because of the gas guzzler tax.

I hope you enjoy the pictures.

SvB4EvA
11-08-08, 01:07 AM
It took me forever to get the excited babble into congruent sentences...

haha!!!! i knew when i read the title of the thread you had to be lying!!! it did kind of gimme a quick scare at first tho :want:

i cant wait till Sunday!

offsight204
11-08-08, 01:33 AM
Man, I shouldn't have read this.

$62K - $6K GMS - $2K rebate - $10K trade the tahoe = $44K net price. Oh this is bad. :banghead:


is not to late for me ..lol... care to tell me where i cant get a deal like this for me??:worship::thepan:

CVP33
11-08-08, 07:23 AM
is not to late for me ..lol... care to tell me where i cant get a deal like this for me??:worship::thepan:

The toughest part is you have to be GMS eligible (directly related to a GM employee or retiree). Then find a dealer willing to honor GMS, with the economy the way it is, many are. The $2,000 rebate is through 1/5/09 I believe. The rest is pretty straight forward.

FullMonte
11-08-08, 11:29 AM
I think i was actually in bigjims "class" lol. I definitely had a good time and as usual Cadillac does not dissapoint when they put on an event. I drove the stick CTS-V and i could go on and on and harp about how amazing it is but i'll try to boil it down to some very concise points.

First off the moment you guys go on a test drive and bury your foot into the carpet in any gear, you will buy this car. It is more forceful than taking off in a jumbo jet and will shock you. coming onto the back straight of the V course, i rolled onto the throttle ( a little late ) and braked ( a little early) and I still saw over 100mph the car is brutal fast.

Secondly, you have the brakes. which make slowing from 110mph in 40 feet feel like rolling to a red light in a normal car.

Third. and not to start a stick vs. auto debate. Imho pick whatever one you want they are both excellent, the stick is a VAST improvement over the feel of the V1's stock shift. Good bye rubber band feeling.

Fourth. Get the damn recaro option, the wheel, and the seats are a must.

anybody who went know when we can download our little surprise?

offsight204
11-08-08, 11:37 AM
The toughest part is you have to be GMS eligible (directly related to a GM employee or retiree). Then find a dealer willing to honor GMS, with the economy the way it is, many are. The $2,000 rebate is through 1/5/09 I believe. The rest is pretty straight forward.


I believe the rebate you have to take delivery before 1/5/09 but the only problem with this is the damn recaro seats. I want the recaro seat option but i dont think is possible yet. Man o Man this just gets better and worse at the same time.....:crybaby:

offsight204
11-08-08, 11:40 AM
I think i was actually in bigjims "class" lol. I definitely had a good time and as usual Cadillac does not dissapoint when they put on an event. I drove the stick CTS-V and i could go on and on and harp about how amazing it is but i'll try to boil it down to some very concise points.

First off the moment you guys go on a test drive and bury your foot into the carpet in any gear, you will buy this car. It is more forceful than taking off in a jumbo jet and will shock you. coming onto the back straight of the V course, i rolled onto the throttle ( a little late ) and braked ( a little early) and I still saw over 100mph the car is brutal fast.

Secondly, you have the brakes. which make slowing from 110mph in 40 feet feel like rolling to a red light in a normal car.

Third. and not to start a stick vs. auto debate. Imho pick whatever one you want they are both excellent, the stick is a VAST improvement over the feel of the V1's stock shift. Good bye rubber band feeling.

Fourth. Get the damn recaro option, the wheel, and the seats are a must.

anybody who went know when we can download our little surprise?


Suprise.... Please do tell :sneaky:

thebigjimsho
11-08-08, 02:45 PM
I think i was actually in bigjims "class" lol. I definitely had a good time and as usual Cadillac does not dissapoint when they put on an event. I drove the stick CTS-V and i could go on and on and harp about how amazing it is but i'll try to boil it down to some very concise points.

First off the moment you guys go on a test drive and bury your foot into the carpet in any gear, you will buy this car. It is more forceful than taking off in a jumbo jet and will shock you. coming onto the back straight of the V course, i rolled onto the throttle ( a little late ) and braked ( a little early) and I still saw over 100mph the car is brutal fast.

Secondly, you have the brakes. which make slowing from 110mph in 40 feet feel like rolling to a red light in a normal car.

Third. and not to start a stick vs. auto debate. Imho pick whatever one you want they are both excellent, the stick is a VAST improvement over the feel of the V1's stock shift. Good bye rubber band feeling.

Fourth. Get the damn recaro option, the wheel, and the seats are a must.

anybody who went know when we can download our little surprise?I'd like to know when we can download those files, as well...

The thrust is sooo nice. I can't tell you how many times I was bumping off the rev limiter. Even with the sweeping LEDs on the tach. Towards the end of the second lap, I was really ripping off some nice redline shifts. I wish I looked at the speedometer on my second lap. The instructor was telling me when to brake down the backstretch and we were WELL into 4th in the auto. I'd guess around 120?

How were the pedals placed in the manual V? I just think the auto V, with the rev-match downshifts, is going to be lethal on a road course.

Oh, and the black ones just looked sooooo sharp...

OldRoadDawg
11-08-08, 05:36 PM
The thrust is sooo nice. I can't tell you how many times I was bumping off the rev limiter. Even with the sweeping LEDs on the tach. Towards the end of the second lap, I was really ripping off some nice redline shifts. I wish I looked at the speedometer on my second lap. The instructor was telling me when to brake down the backstretch and we were WELL into 4th in the auto. I'd guess around 120?

How were the pedals placed in the manual V? I just think the auto V, with the rev-match downshifts, is going to be lethal on a road course.

Oh, and the black ones just looked sooooo sharp...

Jim, you had to be @ 120. I peeked once on my 2nd lap and saw 110... and I was trying to be more deliberate and smoother - unlike my first lap, which was just flat ugly. Those instructors must have nerves of steel when riding with bozos like me.

The pedal placement must have been fine, cuz I never thought about it until you asked.

My same old personal complaint though: With the sunroof, I can't get enough headroom with a helmet on, what with my long upper torso, even with the seat all the way down, just like my '04.
Wearing a helmet while riding in the backseat... that was torture.

StormCaddy
11-08-08, 05:47 PM
Just got back from the morning session and Cadillac did a really nice job putting it together. The V ROCKED, but we had wet conditiions and couldn't totally ring it out - I only made it to about 98... should have stomped it out of the curve into the straight, but was more restrained (dammit!).

Car was really tight, felt great! The CTS course gave us more laps and the XLR course was a blast too!

I WANT a Recarro driver's seat in my CTS now for sure.

thebigjimsho
11-08-08, 07:38 PM
Yeah, my V did not have Recaros. The seat was about the same as my '04, which does suffer a bit in the support department on hard cornering. But the velvety wheel felt great! We had a wet track yesterday, too, but it still had a ton of grip!

My instructor was great with n00bies yesterday and said he had the most fun all day, to that point, in my drive.

Seattle CTS-V
11-09-08, 02:09 AM
I'm so jealous. After selling the V and buying the Cayenne Turbo I told myself I would keep it for two years. How the hell do you expect me to keep this 5000lb hunk of understeering dead weight for two years with exciting reviews like this? Damn you all!

rand49er
11-09-08, 07:39 PM
Jim and Dave, sounds like a great time, and that was an excellent review, Jim ... thanks!

I sat in those Recaros back in May at V One Day, and they were indeed an order of magnitude better than the current V1 seats. Nice butt grip. And the whole enveloping aspect of the driver's seating was so-o-o nice! I envy you guys for the experience of actually putting the car through some paces.

There was a time I thought I might be able to get one of these beasts, but I'm not pushing the wife on it at all. You guys sure get someone like me thinking, though, not to mention that auto vs manual decision that would have to be made. Thanks, again, guys!

Somefun
11-09-08, 09:36 PM
Man I know I have to have one of these baby's but manual or auto is killing me!!! Can the auto be that good???

SvB4EvA
11-09-08, 09:57 PM
Man I know I have to have one of these baby's but manual or auto is killing me!!! Can the auto be that good???

I just wrote a 10 minute review about the new V that I drove a few hours ago... But when I went to post it, it didnt, and I lost the 10 minutes of text I just typed... :nono:

But I will say this, yes the automatic is that good. And I hit 125 on the 3/4 mile back straight. Sadly I was informed that I was not the fastest on the straight, the fastest was 130 on saturday and it was a girl :thepan:

What a great event by Cadillac.

PS- I have 2 years worth of Cadillac chapstick and mints. :histeric:

EDIT: Oh and the pullover is awesome too!

EDIT 2: I just have to add this (before I pass out, im sooooo tired). The most fun of the day I had was the last track we did with the XLR-V. The car is great fun to drive, but I think it had a lot to do with the track it self, something about it and the lay out, I fell in love with it. I brought my Dad as my guest (also his birthday today, what a great gift eh???!!!), I told him during the orientation before driving the XLR-V "hey Dad, lets get in the car right behind the lead pace car with the instructor in it. Ill stay on his ass and see if he budges." Well, IT WORKED! Stayed right on his ass and by the 3rd lap we were FLYING! Hit 86MPH on the semi-straight! We also had a great group that kept up so we didnt have to slow down. Then when we got back to the pits after 5 laps the instructor from the lead car came out and shook my hand, as well as one of the spotters watching the track. "Great driving, EXCELLENT driving!" the Monticello spotter told me and "Man, I saw you on my tail right out of the gate and by the 3rd lap I was actually trying to pull away from you! That was really good driving." the lead car instructor told me. Made my day even that much better...

thebigjimsho
11-09-08, 09:58 PM
Man I know I have to have one of these baby's but manual or auto is killing me!!! Can the auto be that good???On the track, yes!

thebigjimsho
11-09-08, 10:08 PM
I felt like I picked up on the car's abilities right away. It felt very comfortable! One thing I forgot to try, however, was some left foot braking. The pedals were very nice, too, They were aluminum with rubber bar inserts...

thebigjimsho
11-09-08, 10:12 PM
I just wrote a 10 minute review about the new V that I drove a few hours ago... But when I went to post it, it didnt, and I lost the 10 minutes of text I just typed... :nono:

But I will say this, yes the automatic is that good. And I hit 125 on the 3/4 mile back straight. Sadly I was informed that I was not the fastest on the straight, the fastest was 130 on saturday and it was a girl :thepan:

What a great event by Cadillac.

PS- I have 2 years worth of Cadillac chapstick and mints. :histeric:

EDIT: Oh and the pullover is awesome too!The pullover is very nice and a great conversation starter. BTW, what did you think of the XLR-V? Besides the CTS-V, I wish I could've driven those a little more.

Also, the new XLR-V looked great, except for the chrome fender vents. But the front end looked more aggressive and more substantial than I remember. Does anyone knnow what's been changed?

SvB4EvA
11-09-08, 10:20 PM
The pullover is very nice and a great conversation starter. BTW, what did you think of the XLR-V? Besides the CTS-V, I wish I could've driven those a little more.

Also, the new XLR-V looked great, except for the chrome fender vents. But the front end looked more aggressive and more substantial than I remember. Does anyone knnow what's been changed?

Look back up Jim at my post, I edited it again. Yes the new XLR-V looks great, and I agree about the chrome fender vents :( Its almost like a black eye on a supermodel. :mad:

Also, the CTS-V was great, but even tho its a luxury car, it was just too quite... Quite is good sometimes but, the power comming out of that car, just seemed weird how quite it was. I was expecting a real roar out of her, but even the supercharger was SUPER quite. The XLR-V tho sounded excellent. One thing that was a little weird was when I really got on the gas, sometimes it would make a squeaky sound, almost like a horn. I actually thought someone was beeping at me the first time I heard it.

SvB4EvA
11-09-08, 10:35 PM
http://www.carpw.com/pictures/cadillac/XLR-V_2006_1.jpg

^^^^2006^^^^

http://blog.cochesalaventa.com/_fotos/Pics-Aplenty-2009-Cadillac-XLR-and-XLR-V_20154_3.jpg

^^^^2009^^^^

Headlights slightly different, sharper IMO.
New bumper design.
New fogs.
Top grille, slightly curved, looks better then the pancake flat older models.
Bottom grille comes to a point at the center. Sharper looking, IMO.
Hood has a couple more curves on the outside edges.

Just a bunch of subtle changes that come together and make the car look so much better. If I had a 100k laying around I'd have one in my driveway for sure.

I truly had a blast driving it.

thebigjimsho
11-10-08, 12:20 AM
Thanks! The 2009 certainly has a more substantial front end. I thought it looked great! Still not worth $100G however, IMO...

thebigjimsho
11-10-08, 12:22 AM
Think about it. The XLR-V worth $30G more than the new CTS-V?

SvB4EvA
11-10-08, 05:03 AM
Think about it. The XLR-V worth $30G more than the new CTS-V?

Yea, its a no brainer...

SRT8/BMW
11-10-08, 08:43 AM
The Monticello experience- a word: INCREDIBLE. I have been to the SRT track experience before and got to go 135 mph on the 90degree Banked Oval Chicagoland speedway. It was a riot. But I have to say-the folks at Cadillac made this event even better. Well organized, TONS of seat time, a high degree of freedom to drive up to your skill level, incredibly friendly, polite and informative. It was as good as it could be. Eric Berube, Andy Pilgrim and all those guys were just all over this thing with helpful info and questions answered. THANK YOU CADDY!

V Impressions: yes--the automatic IS that good. Its always in the right gear and shifts crisply and at the perfect time. Exhaust note is everyone's personal opinion and mine is that I wouldn't change a thing. A subtle wicked "rumble" at idle and low speed--but when you go WOT-HOLY Sh####T! It sounds like how a car with 556/551 should sound. And let me tell you-you haven't felt torque like this before-you won't ever need a facelift because it puts your skin around the back of your head. I wasi in the Sunday am session--clear and dry conditions. I got the car to 126-127 on the back straight-effortlessly. But what blew me away the most about this car was the suspension/handling and the brakes. With the PS2 tires and the MRCs--what you can do in cornering is almost hard to phathom. And the brakes..oh those brakes..magnificent. Bringing a car like that from 125 down to 30 to do a turn was so easy and impressive.

The other Home Run in this car is the interior appointments--the car is makes you feel like your in a luxury rocket. It wraps around you and is so pleasing to the eye--so easy to drive. I drove the exact model I have ordered- Black on Black with the Recaros. Wow..best seats I ever sat in and I have sat in a LOT!

The other two events--with the CTS and the XLR-V were an absolute riot--especially the xlr-v. I have owned that motor in my former sts-V--and feeling it in a substantially more nimble vehicle was a hoot--car was a mazing to toss around the corners and push to its limits. The cts is a sleeper--and they had all three versions (manual, Auto, and rwd) so you could experience pushing each to its limit--which I did.:bighead:

My only regret was at the very end, after t hey gave me a really cool V pullover--they asked if I was interested in buying a Caddy--and I had to say no because I just did and am awaiting deleivery of my new V any day.

GREAT car--new King of the sedan road by far! :worship: And great job Caddy--I will make sure all my car buds and internet forum contacts know what you have accomplished. I can't wait to get the car and throw some vids up here for folks who may be on the fence..:stirpot:

thebigjimsho
11-10-08, 09:30 AM
Maybe it's partially because I need new shocks and my '04 is going into storage now for the winter, but I can NOT stop thinking about that short stint behind the wheel of the '09.

i always have loved the look of my V. I think the shape just works. But like any car, when the new version comes out, your previous version will gradually look older. The CTS has been out for over a year now and I like the basic shape. But I really have loved the new V since seeing it in person with Jon, The Tony Show, JimmyH and lawfive last January. And now getting to drive it, hot damn!

There is no doubt that I'm getting a '10...if I can wait. I'm still determined to keep my '04 forever, but I'm now keeping sights on the next generation. And out of the box, I think the new V is just so good that I'd even make it my regular track car. I'd have to see where my '04 is when the time comes to see which i'd track more often.

The best thing about the new v is that it is so complete. You sacrifice nothing. You get more power, and handling and braking increases to match the higher weight. And the interior is just so good looking, people will instantly look to Cadillac as a world leader again...

V-Love
11-10-08, 09:52 PM
Just got back to the Keys from my trip to Monticello. As everyone already said, the car is insane. Its worth every penney of what they are asking. I drove the CTS-V first on the Sunday afternoon session. Sun came out, track was dry. Great track. My favorite turn was the decreasing radius right hander where there was slight negative camber. It held the line incredibly. I caught the guy in front of me on the first lap. Then on the second lap when they waved me on my instuctor had me wait extra. I still caught the guy in front of me. Didn't look at the guages once while driving. Even though its tight with a helmet(sunroof car), I am buying this car.
I thought the XLR-V was a pig. Bigtime delay on the gas pedal. They told us not to use sport mode. I got repremanded for running too close by the instuctor I saw workin' the pole the night before at Dutch's Bar. The guy in front of me just put his rearview down so he didn't have to see it. Then I got back in line and ran the XLR-V again. I put it in sport mode and it would shift a little nicer but the handling isn't as tight. I put to wheels off and around the righthander after the clubhouse but never lifted((repremanded again). It did handle that better than I expected. The guys in front of me broke it all the way loose. We were the last two cars besides the tail runner so we were holdin way back and then runnin' up on the pack again.
Regular CTS was next. I wasn't interested so I bailed back to the clubhouse, filled out my questionaire, got my pullover and split.
Monticello is world class. Wish we could have driven the whole track.
BIG THANKS to Cadillac for putting on a really great show! If they keep treating us like this we will have BMW beat in every category. That was a strong event!