: GM declares bankruptcy imminent after $4.2 billion Q3 loss



Blackout
11-07-08, 12:19 PM
http://jalopnik.com/5079567/gm-declares-bankruptcy-imminent-after-42-billion-third-quarter-loss

CIWS
11-07-08, 12:45 PM
"To summarize: give us some money or we're going to go bankrupt and the economy will have to grapple with the horror of hundreds of thousands of unemployed workers."

They're pressing their point home to Congress.

EcSTSatic
11-07-08, 01:40 PM
Might as well jump on the bailout bandwagon!

LS1Mike
11-07-08, 03:19 PM
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081107/earns_gm.html?.v=3
I don't think it was quite as much but still bad, the big number is an adjusted number.

Bailout
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aWj2UUIE4ofU&refer=worldwide

What the President Elect has to say.
Obama also called for attention to the woes of small businesses and the auto industry.

"I would like to see the administration do everything they can to accelerate the retooling assistance that Congress has already enacted," Obama said. "In addition, I have made it a high priority for my transition team to work on additional policy options to help the auto industry adjust, weather the financial crisis, and succeed in producing fuel-efficient cars here in the United States. I have asked my team to explore what we can do under current law and whether additional legislation will be needed for this purpose."

The whole thing is here.
http://cbs2chicago.com/politics/obama.economy.news.2.858962.html

hueterm
11-07-08, 10:20 PM
Dare I say..."Good"??

Instead of a straight bailout w/no change in operations:

Stiff the lenders (who will get bailed out anyway), make necessary management changes, renegociate labor agreements, realign dealer networks....and then come out of bankruptcy stronger, leaner, and more like the Japanese companies.

Just about every airline has declared bankruptcy more than once and it doesn't seem to have impacted the ones who survived (their industry is still in shambles, but the bankruptcy itself helped them).

Same goes for Ford....

Chrysler....??

dkozloski
11-08-08, 11:53 AM
In the last great depression, 90% of the car makers disappeared. In a few years, all that will be left of the American auto industry is large trucks and heavy equipment. In that respect we'll resemble Cuba with parts sales mainly in the salvage yards. Nobody will have the money to go to Autozone or NAPA.

LS1Mike
11-08-08, 12:19 PM
Dare I say..."Good"??

Instead of a straight bailout w/no change in operations:

Stiff the lenders (who will get bailed out anyway), make necessary management changes, renegociate labor agreements, realign dealer networks....and then come out of bankruptcy stronger, leaner, and more like the Japanese companies.

Just about every airline has declared bankruptcy more than once and it doesn't seem to have impacted the ones who survived (their industry is still in shambles, but the bankruptcy itself helped them).

Same goes for Ford....

Chrysler....??

The Airline industry dosen't support near the jobs of the auto industry which is the backbone of America's manufacturing base. If planes don't fly it won't destroy the economy, if we can't make our own cars, or have the ability to chance the maching in plants to supply the Miltary. Stand By.

I didn't vote for The Oman, but he is doing the right thing in saying he will help them.(it even suprised me that he did) Hell we gave 700,000 billion to save a non-tangible asset. Saving the big 3 will at least give us a tangible asset and help keep manufacturing jobs here in the states. 50 billion isn't even a penny in the pot. They only get one chance though after that they are on their own.

Their bankruptcy will only through us into a deeper economic hole with so many people out of work and debts not repaid, maybe good for the actual company, but not good for the nation as a whole.

Countries like China and Russia are just waiting for them to fold so they can become the new world power. Those guys and their citizens are serious about that. China is building 20 submarines and 3 LARGE aircraft carriers, you don't get much more serious then that if you ask me. Russia has recently had enough money to get their large Naval fleet underway for exercises, that includes their very formidable submarine force. I am not saying the sky is falling, I am just saying we kind of need to watch them. Having no large manufactuing here in the states would leave us wide open. I would like to think we can trust Russia and China, but when their natural resources start to run out, I am not sure we can.

hueterm
11-08-08, 12:27 PM
Just because they declare bankruptcy doesn't mean that they're going to cease operations.

You're right, in that $50B anymore is petty cash for what's getting doled out and wasted...but if the Big 2/3 don't change HOW they build cars -- they're never going to be as efficient as the Japanese or Koreans.

This should have been done during the first term of the Bush admin, so the unions wouldn't have been in the position of having B.O. Barackus (which is hilarious that that are Obama's initials, essentially his first name, and Mr. T's character from the A Team.......) as President and an emboldened Dem Congress.....


(EDIT: DARN! I checked Wikipedia and Mr. T's character is spelled B.A. Baracus......close, but no cigar....)

LS1Mike
11-08-08, 12:42 PM
Just because they declare bankruptcy doesn't mean that they're going to cease operations.

You're right, in that $50B anymore is petty cash for what's getting doled out and wasted...but if the Big 2/3 don't change HOW they build cars -- they're never going to be as efficient as the Japanese or Koreans.

This should have been done during the first term of the Bush admin, so the unions wouldn't have been in the position of having B.O. Barackus (which is hilarious that that are Obama's initials, essentially his first name, and Mr. T's character from the A Team.......) as President and an emboldened Dem Congress.....


(EDIT: DARN! I checked Wikipedia and Mr. T's character is spelled B.A. Baracus......close, but no cigar....)

You are right, they most likely will not cease opeartions, but they won't be paying back any debt and won't be anywhere as strong if we really were to need their manufacturing base. Very bad.

LS1Mike
11-08-08, 12:43 PM
B.O. Barackus (which is hilarious that that are Obama's initials, essentially his first name, and Mr. T's character from the A Team.......)

(EDIT: DARN! I checked Wikipedia and Mr. T's character is spelled B.A. Baracus......close, but no cigar....)

I pitty the fool...:histeric:

B. A. = Bad Attitude!

hueterm
11-08-08, 12:46 PM
That was kind of my point though. I'd rather the gov't bail out their debt holders than keep dumping money into the company, when their business model is lacking. I think they'll get the money though...

As far as their mfg. capacity -- they're continuing to shut down more and more of it everyday.....getting the bleeding stopped sooner would help them start to recover sooner. The country is going to need this mfg. base -- this isn't $.50 for a pack of 20 kitchen towels that get shipped in from Bangledesh.

Blackout
11-09-08, 09:59 AM
The problem with GM right now is they are blowing through money like no other car company in the world right now. Need further proof? Just look at the Q3 reports for the car companies. For the Q3 GM posted a $4.2 billion loss while Ford posted a $129 million dollar loss. So what is it that Ford is doing that GM isn't doing? At the end of the day it comes down to who's selling cars, in this case Ford is actually doing the best out of the domestic brands (I know many on here don't want to hear that but hey, the numbers don't lie) Ford has stayed the closest to their sales numbers for last year. GM back in august sold over 300,000 vehicles, and in october they're only in the mid 100,000's. Here's an article with the latest as to what's going on http://www.theautochannel.com/link.html?http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122573166905093595.html

LS1Mike
11-09-08, 11:55 AM
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
Ford is giving out credit. Where GM is just not doing it. GMAC only gives credit now to people with the highest of scores.
People can't buy it they can't get a loan. No leases either. GM is burning through cash because they have this huge infrastructre to support and health car for hundreds and thousands of folks.
Where as Ford is not as big they don't need to shell out as much cash. GM still outsells Ford by over 1,000,000 cars a year, even so in 2008. GM is just to big to not be selling cars or only offering credit
to those with less then a perfect score.
If you look at Overall sales for the year GM is down 20% Ford is Down 18%. Neither is doing anything well, Ford just dosen't have to shell out as much cash...yet.