: Pics of new AMP RACK



Lu Scola
11-06-08, 02:56 AM
Today I got my amp rack finally started and just about completed. We started at 10am and we just finished up at 2:45am. Here are some pics, they may not be that great because its at night. Im gonna take more pics tommorrow. I have 6 more Red LED Neons to put in the amp sections of the rack. We didnt get enough, and the store was closed when we got to that part of the build. Ill have it 100% done tommorrow. Let me know what you guys think so far. This weekend Im gonna build the custom wall with the subs in it, the cd changer and dvd changer.


The rack has a tan and black two tone leather wrap. Plexi glass windows for the componants. Once I add more red neons to the amp windows, they will light up really nice and bright. The center where the capacitor and digital distribution blocks are is lit blue and needs no other lighting.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amprack019.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amprack018.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amprack016.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amprack015.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amprack013.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amprack012.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amprack009.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amprack008.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amprack004.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amprack003.jpg



Hey Fierodough, here is the finished product you seen getting started this morning when you came up to the shop. Thanks for stopping by. It was a pleasure to meet you, your wife and son! You ESV looks great!!! Did you get the keypads programmed up? Give me a call if you ever need anything. Lu

fierodough
11-06-08, 07:53 AM
Hey Fierodough, here is the finished product you seen getting started this morning when you came up to the shop. Thanks for stopping by. It was a pleasure to meet you, your wife and son! You ESV looks great!!! Did you get the keypads programmed up? Give me a call if you ever need anything. Lu

:eek: I think you have me confused with someone else. I was at work in Ottawa yesterday! :D What threw me off is I normally travel with my wife and kid. :P You actually had me wondering what I did yesterday!

That setup looks awesome though! Would this work on an ESV? and do the seats fold down to access the 3rd row? (if it was an ESV)

Cheers!
Eric

Lu Scola
11-06-08, 07:57 AM
OOOOPS LOL!!! This message was meant for FIL....I copied and pasted the wrong members screen name out of my message box. Both of you guys had messaged me about the keypads. Im sure it would work for an ESV as well. My seats function as normal as if the rack wasnt there.

1class
11-06-08, 09:29 AM
WOW VERY NICE!!!! :thumbsup:
Thanks for the pics, looks like you did a great job.
I must say you had it all apart and you did lot of work very clean install and in record time. When I seen it yesterday at the shop all torn up I could not imagine that you could have it done that quickly and looking that nice.

Awesome truck great work!!! :thumbsup:

Rolex
11-06-08, 11:03 AM
That is ON TIME! :thumbsup:

AAD
11-06-08, 12:54 PM
Nice work lu. Keep up the good work.

Povich
11-06-08, 01:19 PM
Looks Good! Takes me back to the days I used to install! Lot of fun doin this and getting things to look good takes time for sure! Looks real good Lu!:2thumbs:

bstiffmanofsteel
11-06-08, 02:50 PM
Damn that is serious stuff there!

Lu Scola
11-06-08, 03:47 PM
Thanks for the comps. Here are some daytime pics. You can see a little more detail.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp2rack023.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp2rack021.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp2rack020.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp2rack014.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp2rack013.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp2rack011.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp2rack018.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp2rack017.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp2rack004.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp2rack001.jpg

93si
11-06-08, 06:07 PM
Looks Awesome man. Great job...

bigksone
11-06-08, 07:27 PM
Looks great Lu. Really clean.
What's up with the mini fridge?

Lu Scola
11-06-08, 07:32 PM
Im putting the fridge in the wall if we have room. I have to get the sub, two changers, and maybe something else in there.

bigksone
11-06-08, 07:37 PM
Can't wait to see that.
you're a monster.

hcvone
11-07-08, 08:27 AM
That is real nice. :)

Lu Scola
11-07-08, 10:20 PM
Today I added more LED Neon Strips to the amp rack. Now it is super bright. The great thing about this amp rack is that the top is removable and interchangable. I am gonna build 2 more alternate tops for the rack with different plexiglass window designs. Im gonna make one with a Cadillac Emblem that will light up blue in the center. I am thinking about making a top that spells out ESCALADE and it will light up red/blue and blended purple where the colors combine. Its very easy to get the top off. I only have to remove 5 screws to access the inside. Here are some new pics with the extra lighting installed.

These LED strips are very cool. They are bright as h*ll. You are able to cut them to the length you need. Im gonna add some under my front seats and under the dash near the driver and passengers feet so that my floor is illuminated. Im gonna power them with the interior lighting and also by the door trigger so that they power up when any doors open. You can also operate them with an optional woodgrain keypad (sold seperatly). Im gonna put some under my hood, and a few spots around the exterior. If anybody wants any, let me know. They come in several colors.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp3pics002.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp3pics004.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp3pics005.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp3pics007.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp3pics008.jpg


Here are some pics of my headliner and interior lit from the rack lights. These pics are taken with the seat bottoms pulled up. Its not as bright when the seats are in the sitting position. I think it looks cool!

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp3pics006.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/stinkypinky112/amp3pics003.jpg

ESCALADOR
11-08-08, 11:22 AM
looking good! nice job man

93si
11-09-08, 03:52 PM
That is wicked Great job

Lu Scola
11-10-08, 03:35 AM
I doubt if I do any more mods this week. I was hoping to get the wall done this past weekend but never got around to it. I am picking up my winter wheels. I bought a set of 24" ASA by BBS wheels for the snow season. Im gonna sell the brand new 2008 Chrome factories I just bought 2 weeks ago. I want to keep my 26"s on as long as I can. I want to do the swap right before we start getting snow in my area. Im gonna clean my 26"s up real nice for the spring. I'll polish/wax the chrome, and clean the barrells to a new shine. When I put them on next spring it will feel like getting brand new rims again!

Lu Scola
11-10-08, 03:37 AM
Thanks, I love this rack, cant wait until I get some new rack tops made!

ItsAdam1
11-16-08, 06:23 PM
hey nice rack.........

1class
11-16-08, 08:03 PM
Very Nice! :thumbsup: your shop does great work for sure!

technobill
11-16-08, 08:56 PM
YOU Sir, are no installer. You are an Artisan!

Have you worked with any of David Navone's hardware?
http://www.davidnavone.com/

For what is now my wife's 2002 Escalade, bought new, my goal was stealth. My intention, and result was to keep the stock head unit, CD changer, and all stock speakers except those in the rear doors. With the exception of the rear doors, the stock speakers would serve as low volume fill for a traditional HiFi Stereo.

The challenge was extracting the equivalent of line level outs for the amp that fed the Kappa Perfect Components in the rear doors, and similar low end outs for the woofers' amp, while establishing an optimal gain structure between the head unit, amps, etc.

David's variable gain adaptors made it a piece of cake! I had looked around locally and the homegrown pros told me the back doors were a lousy place to the put the Perfects because it would destroy the "soundstage", of which they incidentally were incapable of providing a definition. O.K. Thanks for help your help Beavis. You might want to consider taking an acoustics course in the Physics department at our University.

If you have customers who do NOT want to change out their head unit for security reasons, and are primarily interested in High Fidelity audio, David's adaptors and widgets are the next best thing to having Merlin on your staff!:thumbsup: If functionality not present in the stock head unit is the customer's desire, then a new head unit is justified. But if the only concern is getting HiFi out of the head unit, it's in there! Plus there's something to be said for doing something elegantly, rather than just ripping out parts because its easier.

The looks of that amp rack make me think you appreciate the rush of artistically accomplishing that which the rogues would have the great unwashed believe can not be done. :golden:

Spittin Game
11-17-08, 04:55 AM
For what is now my wife's 2002 Escalade, bought new, my goal was stealth. My intention, and result was to keep the stock head unit, CD changer, and all stock speakers except those in the rear doors. With the exception of the rear doors, the stock speakers would serve as low volume fill for a traditional HiFi Stereo.


Wait, you left the stock speakers in except the ones in the rear doors? I was always told by pretty much everyone that if you are going to replace any speakers in your car, do the fronts, cause afterall that is where you sit when you drive. I dont understand why you replaced only the rear door speakers...?

technobill
11-17-08, 11:35 AM
Wait, you left the stock speakers in except the ones in the rear doors? I was always told by pretty much everyone that if you are going to replace any speakers in your car, do the fronts, cause afterall that is where you sit when you drive. I dont understand why you replaced only the rear door speakers...?

Question is well founded and answer is based on social issues. Answer forthcoming. Stand by Expectorating Sport...:coffee:

technobill
11-17-08, 02:06 PM
Wait, you left the stock speakers in except the ones in the rear doors? I was always told by pretty much everyone that if you are going to replace any speakers in your car, do the fronts, cause afterall that is where you sit when you drive. I dont understand why you replaced only the rear door speakers...?

I fully understand your question, and your basis is dead on target. The answer is a function of the primary goal, stealth, while minimizing to the extent possible the deleterious effect of placing them other than in the front seating area. Serious listening is done in our home, courtesy of the accommodation of my addiction by my wonderful wife of twenty two years. Our living room is 24’ x 22’, 10’ ceilings, cathedral vaulting, and every piece of furniture, window covering, wall art, lamps, etc. are subordinate servants of the most sublime attribute of physics, the Lovely Lady Nymph Acoustic(s). :kari3: Whoa… getting a little too into personal issues there!

Incidentally, I was installing the Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.1s
http://www.infinitysystems.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=KAPPA%20PERFECT6.1&cat=COS&ser=KPE&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA
which some install documents justifiably indicate are too large for the vehicle. For a “snap-in” install they were, but with very little door panel adjustments they fit beautifully and the 6.5” mid-drivers hid nicely behind the stock grilles.

1) Acoustically the underdash side kick panel enclosures, to the left and right of driver's and passenger's feet respectively, are the best as they
A)Keep the two components, the 6.5" mid-driver and 1" tweeter proximal to one another [the importance of this will be addressed later] and
B)Allow a relatively unobstructed path for the highly directional high frequencies to the respective ears of opposite position occupants [right tweeter to right ear of driver] (left seat) and [left tweeter to left ear of passenger] (right seat)
C)Allow a decent, although not optimal path to the respective ears of the respective position occupants [right tweeter to right ear of passenger] (right seat) and [left tweeter to left ear of driver] (left seat)
D)Allow a relatively great, although not “sweet spot” equal, distance for both sets of speakers from both occupants.
This position is hands down the winner acoustically, as supported by the IKP61 documentation.
E)Infinity recommends the tweeters be mounted axially to the listener, but in my unscientific, double sided tape them in place, listen, modify, listen, modify, etc. the up and across angle provided by the kick panel cabinets sound better to me than an absolute 90° axial position. Thus the splitting of hairs in sub items 1B through 1D.
http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Owner%27s%20Manual/KAPPA%20PERFECT%206-1%20om.pdf

2) While the kick panel enclosure position is moderately stealthy, the anal retentive StereoPhile in me couldn’t stand the thought of moderately expensive speakers proximal to wet, muddy, snowy, salty, footwear. Sure I could always take my shoes off in the back seat, crawl through the middle and be good to go, but I had this inexplicable notion that my wife might not be 100% consistent with this fully reasonable accommodation. Thus kick panels are out.

3)Position Two in the IKP61 *.pdf is the position that in retrospect I probably should have gone with as I could have raised the position in the kick panel of the tweeter, and painted the casing/grille to match the interior. Unfortunately I had these annoying problems that precluded enough time to ponder options and come up with the idea of painting the tweeter grilles a matching color. Those problems were career, life, sleep, annoying shit like that. But as a result of visualizing the tweeters as black on beige “Hey, break in to this truck! I’m tiny but I’m connected to a whole bunch of cool stuff definitely worth a thief’s time” flashing anti-security beacons, I ruled that out. Big Mistake. :suspect:

4)Positions Three and Four in the IKP61 *.pdf are anti-stealth.

5) Thus I moved my thoughts to the back (second) seat. As an I.T. Director, I knew a lot of fellow geeks from conferences and such, one of whom worked for Infinity and put me in voice contact with one of their design engineers. We covered all the foregoing, I can assuage my guilt a little by the fact that he didn’t think of painting the tweeter grilles for Position Two either, and we spent a good ninety minutes of our respective work days discussing the oxymoronic term “car stereo” and a lot of stuff regarding acoustics with which I was familiar and a lot of stuff regarding electrical engineering wherein my role was akin to “a cow staring at a passing train.” :tard:[From an Eagles song] As he was dragging me by my supraorbital notches through the details of multiple order acoustic alignments, he suggested an option that seemed utterly counter intuitive, but sounds astonishingly good. Place the left tweeter on the left rear door at ten o’clock to the left mid driver, no more than fore inches from the mid driver, directed straight at the left ear of the right front seat occupant. Place the right tweeter on the right rear door at two o’clock to the right mid driver, no more than fore inches from the mid driver, directed straight at the right ear of the left front seat occupant. To which I intelligently responded “No F__king Way?!” He then again hooked his fingers into the skull handles above my eyes and dragged me into tangential attributes of this Linquitz-Riley electronic trickery on, or seduction of, Lady Nymph Acoustia. I stopped him, asked if I could get a decent approximation by simply sticking the tweeters back there without the mid-drivers mounted in the doors. “Sure! The mids will sound like shit, but we’re not listening to them in this instance. We can dick with them via the filters’ configurations in your multi-amp structure. Don’t trust me, go try it.”

6) I’m a network engineer, but that’s just a bullshit title for an enhanced geek. This chap’s undergrad work was in electrical engineering, Masters in EE and acoustics, PhD. in acoustics. This man was an engineer! :bows: And my own ears proved it to me as well as blowing my mind which was intransigently insisting that this simply was not possible. I don’t know if the same results would obtain with a different manufacturer’s crossovers, and the IKP61 component’s amp filters don’t take them down anywhere near the basement of the mid-driver’s range (I meld the woofers in in the true woofer range which is often mistakenly referred to as “sub” woofers), but strictly from my personal experience and perspective as a true High Fidelity Stereo addict the result sounds far better than it should! I would go so far as to say that in my opinion the sound stage, linearity of frequency response, and transparency of where the tweeters, mids, and woofers crossover, the setup sounds orders of magnitude better than my little pea brain thinks it should.

7) But the main point I wanted to offer everyone is the ingenious widgetry of David Navone. There is a prevailing sentiment that one MUST replace the head unit if one is serious about upgrading the sound in their vehicle. In the 1970s this was true, trust me, but it is most definitely NOT TRUE today. The fidelity is in there. The tricky part is getting it out and getting it to the amplifiers when our stock head units don’t offer us the easy option of true line level outs. Hell, what am I saying? Not any kind of line level outs! The Delco-Bose head units, amps, squirrely combinations of speaker resistances, are befuddling at best. And an aftermarket head unit can be inconspicuous as seen by many of the postings here. But in the cases where an individual, or one’s customer has their own reasons for wanting to retain the stock head unit, fully viable, high end sound from that head unit is attainable. The telephone, voice output of the navigation system, can all be seamlessly retained. How many speakers, what type, and where, you wish to place them are up to you. The people like me who want to retain the stock head unit are no doubt a minority, a small percentage. But from my perspective, I don’t care what most of the market wants. I AM 100% OF THE MARKET. David Navone’s widgets, judiciously selected, allows me to have my cake, eat it too, and as regards the passenger having to take off her shoes in the back seat and climb through to the front; I get to have my pie and eat it too.

8) But YES Expectorating Game my good man, the front row is BEST! In my previous post I was merely railing against the poseur experts who, out of ignorance, said not that what I was proposing was less than optimal, it is, but were saying that for the intents and purposes of HiFi Stereo COULD NOT BE DONE. I just happen to like people who are more interested in the best outcome, admitting ignorance and learning from others, not settling, and continuing to seek out solutions to complex problems about things that are personally important to them or their customers. This is at the core of being a professional. I REALLY like music. I REALLY NEED IT in as many environments, home, work, vehicle, travel, as possible. In different environments different priorities obtain. No I don’t suppose I can have a twenty four foot by twenty two foot, acoustically optimized, driving environment with a couple of mono block amps that double as space heaters (No they are not particularly efficient, but they’ll enliven or electrocute Frankenstein’s Monster at my whim and drive ribbon speakers with clarinet harmonics that will bring a tear to your eye, and a lump to your throat)

9) Personally, I Love Being Wrong! Because when I am, I’ve learned something. And when it involves having had wonderful sound in the 2002 Escalade, before it went to my wife when I got my 2005 ESV, I am reminded of the great twentieth century philosopher Daymon Wayans who, before he hit the height of his popularity, oft said on “In Living Color” “Well put me in a dress, slap my ass, and call me Sally!”

Should I have painted the tweeter grilles and put them in Position Two from the IKP61 *.pdf? Absolutely! Did I make a mistake? Oh Yeah! But my little pea brain was opened up to a much deeper world of what optimizing auto sound can really mean. With David’s ingenious hardware, my larger world, and greater humility (although said humility is probably not apparent in this post), I can still, finances and time permitting, add an amp, a pair of IKP61s in the front doors, and have far superior performance from the second row IKP61s resulting in a far superior final system.

I would proof read this psychotically lengthy response, but I’m too busy imagining all the possible permutations for my 2005 ESV. Due to dramatic reduction/near elimination in drive time, as a function of career matters, I haven’t touched its audio system, am unlikely to be able to justify the E.J. Thomas Performing Arts Hall concert system I would configure, but my mind is racing nonetheless. People use the word “addiction” as if it’s a bad thing. :bwahaharoll4vu: I just don’t understand them.

Now I'm up for some quality time with Alex, Neil, & Geddy. :band:

At Greater Length Than Originally Intended,
TechnoBill The Obtuse

Spittin Game
11-17-08, 02:29 PM
I fully understand your question, and your basis is dead on target. The answer is a function of the primary goal, stealth, while minimizing to the extent possible the deleterious effect of placing them other than in the front seating area. Serious listening is done in our home, courtesy of the accommodation of my addiction by my wonderful wife of twenty two years. Our living room is 24’ x 22’, 10’ ceilings, cathedral vaulting, and every piece of furniture, window covering, wall art, lamps, etc. are subordinate servants of the most sublime attribute of physics, the Lovely Lady Nymph Acoustic(s). :kari3: Whoa… getting a little too into personal issues there!

Incidentally, I was installing the Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.1s
http://www.infinitysystems.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=KAPPA%20PERFECT6.1&cat=COS&ser=KPE&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA
which some install documents justifiably indicate are too large for the vehicle. For a “snap-in” install they were, but with very little door panel adjustments they fit beautifully and the 6.5” mid-drivers hid nicely behind the stock grilles.

1) Acoustically the underdash side kick panel enclosures, to the left and right of driver's and passenger's feet respectively, are the best as they
A)Keep the two components, the 6.5" mid-driver and 1" tweeter proximal to one another [the importance of this will be addressed later] and
B)Allow a relatively unobstructed path for the highly directional high frequencies to the respective ears of opposite position occupants [right tweeter to right ear of driver] (left seat) and [left tweeter to left ear of passenger] (right seat)
C)Allow a decent, although not optimal path to the respective ears of the respective position occupants [right tweeter to right ear of passenger] (right seat) and [left tweeter to left ear of driver] (left seat)
D)Allow a relatively great, although not “sweet spot” equal, distance for both sets of speakers from both occupants.
This position is hands down the winner acoustically, as supported by the IKP61 documentation.
E)Infinity recommends the tweeters be mounted axially to the listener, but in my unscientific, double sided tape them in place, listen, modify, listen, modify, etc. the up and across angle provided by the kick panel cabinets sound better to me than an absolute 90° axial position. Thus the splitting of hairs in sub items 1B through 1D.
http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Owner%27s%20Manual/KAPPA%20PERFECT%206-1%20om.pdf

2) While the kick panel enclosure position is moderately stealthy, the anal retentive StereoPhile in me couldn’t stand the thought of moderately expensive speakers proximal to wet, muddy, snowy, salty, footwear. Sure I could always take my shoes off in the back seat, crawl through the middle and be good to go, but I had this inexplicable notion that my wife might not be 100% consistent with this fully reasonable accommodation. Thus kick panels are out.

3)Position Two in the IKP61 *.pdf is the position that in retrospect I probably should have gone with as I could have raised the position in the kick panel of the tweeter, and painted the casing/grille to match the interior. Unfortunately I had these annoying problems that precluded enough time to ponder options and come up with the idea of painting the tweeter grilles a matching color. Those problems were career, life, sleep, annoying shit like that. But as a result of visualizing the tweeters as black on beige “Hey, break in to this truck! I’m tiny but I’m connected to a whole bunch of cool stuff definitely worth a thief’s time” flashing anti-security beacons, I ruled that out. Big Mistake. :suspect:

4)Positions Three and Four in the IKP61 *.pdf are anti-stealth.

5) Thus I moved my thoughts to the back (second) seat. As an I.T. Director, I knew a lot of fellow geeks from conferences and such, one of whom worked for Infinity and put me in voice contact with one of their design engineers. We covered all the foregoing, I can assuage my guilt a little by the fact that he didn’t think of painting the tweeter grilles for Position Two either, and we spent a good ninety minutes of our respective work days discussing the oxymoronic term “car stereo” and a lot of stuff regarding acoustics with which I was familiar and a lot of stuff regarding electrical engineering wherein my role was akin to “a cow staring at a passing train.” :tard:[From an Eagles song] As he was dragging me by my supraorbital notches through the details of multiple order acoustic alignments, he suggested an option that seemed utterly counter intuitive, but sounds astonishingly good. Place the left tweeter on the left rear door at ten o’clock to the left mid driver, no more than fore inches from the mid driver, directed straight at the left ear of the right front seat occupant. Place the right tweeter on the right rear door at two o’clock to the right mid driver, no more than fore inches from the mid driver, directed straight at the right ear of the left front seat occupant. To which I intelligently responded “No F__king Way?!” He then again hooked his fingers into the skull handles above my eyes and dragged me into tangential attributes of this Linquitz-Riley electronic trickery on, or seduction of, Lady Nymph Acoustia. I stopped him, asked if I could get a decent approximation by simply sticking the tweeters back there without the mid-drivers mounted in the doors. “Sure! The mids will sound like shit, but we’re not listening to them in this instance. We can dick with them via the filters’ configurations in your multi-amp structure. Don’t trust me, go try it.”

6) I’m a network engineer, but that’s just a bullshit title for an enhanced geek. This chap’s undergrad work was in electrical engineering, Masters in EE and acoustics, PhD. in acoustics. This man was an engineer! :bows: And my own ears proved it to me as well as blowing my mind which was intransigently insisting that this simply was not possible. I don’t know if the same results would obtain with a different manufacturer’s crossovers, and the IKP61 component’s amp filters don’t take them down anywhere near the basement of the mid-driver’s range (I meld the woofers in in the true woofer range which is often mistakenly referred to as “sub” woofers), but strictly from my personal experience and perspective as a true High Fidelity Stereo addict the result sounds far better than it should! I would go so far as to say that in my opinion the sound stage, linearity of frequency response, and transparency of where the tweeters, mids, and woofers crossover, the setup sounds orders of magnitude better than my little pea brain thinks it should.

7) But the main point I wanted to offer everyone is the ingenious widgetry of David Navone. There is a prevailing sentiment that one MUST replace the head unit if one is serious about upgrading the sound in their vehicle. In the 1970s this was true, trust me, but it is most definitely NOT TRUE today. The fidelity is in there. The tricky part is getting it out and getting it to the amplifiers when our stock head units don’t offer us the easy option of true line level outs. Hell, what am I saying? Not any kind of line level outs! The Delco-Bose head units, amps, squirrely combinations of speaker resistances, are befuddling at best. And an aftermarket head unit can be inconspicuous as seen by many of the postings here. But in the cases where an individual, or one’s customer has their own reasons for wanting to retain the stock head unit, fully viable, high end sound from that head unit is attainable. The telephone, voice output of the navigation system, can all be seamlessly retained. How many speakers, what type, and where, you wish to place them are up to you. The people like me who want to retain the stock head unit are no doubt a minority, a small percentage. But from my perspective, I don’t care what most of the market wants. I AM 100% OF THE MARKET. David Navone’s widgets, judiciously selected, allows me to have my cake, eat it too, and as regards the passenger having to take off her shoes in the back seat and climb through to the front; I get to have my pie and eat it too.

8) But YES Expectorating Game my good man, the front row is BEST! In my previous post I was merely railing against the poseur experts who, out of ignorance, said not that what I was proposing was less than optimal, it is, but were saying that for the intents and purposes of HiFi Stereo COULD NOT BE DONE. I just happen to like people who are more interested in the best outcome, admitting ignorance and learning from others, not settling, and continuing to seek out solutions to complex problems about things that are personally important to them or their customers. This is at the core of being a professional. I REALLY like music. I REALLY NEED IT in as many environments, home, work, vehicle, travel, as possible. In different environments different priorities obtain. No I don’t suppose I can have a twenty four foot by twenty two foot, acoustically optimized, driving environment with a couple of mono block amps that double as space heaters (No they are not particularly efficient, but they’ll enliven or electrocute Frankenstein’s Monster at my whim and drive ribbon speakers with clarinet harmonics that will bring a tear to your eye, and a lump to your throat)

9) Personally, I Love Being Wrong! Because when I am, I’ve learned something. And when it involves having had wonderful sound in the 2002 Escalade, before it went to my wife when I got my 2005 ESV, I am reminded of the great twentieth century philosopher Daymon Wayans who, before he hit the height of his popularity, oft said on “In Living Color” “Well put me in a dress, slap my ass, and call me Sally!”

Should I have painted the tweeter grilles and put them in Position Two from the IKP61 *.pdf? Absolutely! Did I make a mistake? Oh Yeah! But my little pea brain was opened up to a much deeper world of what optimizing auto sound can really mean. With David’s ingenious hardware, my larger world, and greater humility (although said humility is probably not apparent in this post), I can still, finances and time permitting, add an amp, a pair of IKP61s in the front doors, and have far superior performance from the second row IKP61s resulting in a far superior final system.

I would proof read this psychotically lengthy response, but I’m too busy imagining all the possible permutations for my 2005 ESV. Due to dramatic reduction/near elimination in drive time, as a function of career matters, I haven’t touched its audio system, am unlikely to be able to justify the E.J. Thomas Performing Arts Hall concert system I would configure, but my mind is racing nonetheless. People use the word “addiction” as if it’s a bad thing. :bwahaharoll4vu: I just don’t understand them.

Now I'm up for some quality time with Alex, Neil, & Geddy. :band:

At Greater Length Than Originally Intended,
TechnoBill The Obtuse


Tech, DUDE, you TOTALLY lost me man...:bighead:

Lu Scola
11-17-08, 08:01 PM
Its nice to see my thread turn into a online Physics course. I have installed componant speakers all the way around in my vehicle. I am very pleased with the sound, volume levels, and the crisp clean highs, tight lows, and great mids my truck has as of now. I never really took into account, what your saying above. I dont enter my truck into any sound competitions. Therefore I will trust that Cadillac has placed their speaker pods into good places to produce quality sound via the speakers. I still dont see why only replacing the rear speakers is better. A good set of componant speakers in the front door will sound much better than the factory ones anyday, so why not replace them as well if you do replace the rear speakers?

technobill
11-17-08, 09:15 PM
I never really took into account, what your saying above. I dont enter my truck into any sound competitions.

I don't either, I was just interested in the best sound given the higher priority of stealth.

Therefore I will trust that Cadillac has placed their speaker pods into good places to produce quality sound via the speakers.

That brings up one of the things I intended to mention, but forgot. If you observe Postition Four in the IKP61 *.pdf, you will notice it is not particularly different than the location of the stock driver and tweeter with the exception that the stock tweeter bounces its output off the windshield. But Infinity lists Position Four as the WORST of the four options. Here's why. If we are talking about aftermarket component speakers in Position Four, the sound from the tweeter will reach our ears significantly earlier than the sound from the mid drivers. Remember, our ears are hooked up to some pretty damn sophisticated software, and the software/wetware/brain would interpret this temporal variance of the arrival times of the sounds as being "smeary or muddy" for lack of a better term. Bose gets around this by all the advanced "behind the Wizard of Oz's curtain" processing that makes dealing with these systems such a pain in the ass. The Bose drivers and tweeters sound good in those positions because the sounds coming from them are ALREADY OUT OF TEMPORAL PHASE BUT PRECISELY SO THAT WHEN THE RESPECTIVE SOUNDS REACH OUR EARS THEY ARE IN TEMPORAL PHASE thus they sound clear, not "smeary."

The IKP61s, and presumably all manufacturer's component systems, are designed to have the tweeters and mid-drivers proximal to one another to avoid the undesireable effect of having their outputs reach the occupants' ears out of temporal phase. Unless they specifically state they can be adjusted based on how far apart they are [REAL unlikely I'm thinking], it's not an unreasonable assumption because the things that affect propagation of sound waves in gases are pretty much 'standard equipment' here on our planet. "Fun With Sound: Inhale helium, frequency shift your voice, get your friends to inhale too much helium and asphyxiate. They'll talk funny then pass out from lack of oxygen.:sneaky:"

I still dont see why only replacing the rear speakers is better.

It isn't. I screwed up. See item #3

A good set of componant speakers in the front door will sound much better than the factory ones anyday, so why not replace them as well if you do replace the rear speakers?

You are quite right. See item #3

Components all around, as is your practice, is just plain great. As noted in preceding post, if I had had the common sense to just paint the tweeter grilles beige to match my interior, use the IKP61 *.pdf Position Two, with the tweeter just a bit higher I'd have made a much better choice.

As I noted, my original goal was merely to turn you on to David Navone's hardware. You may run into a situation a bit out of the ordinary where access to his brilliantly conceived tools will have your business competitors speaking your name in hushed tones of awe and reverence. :worship:

The only thing I'd offer is to keep the tweeters and mid-drivers of your components fairly close together. Less than 6" apart is cool. Less than 4" apart is golden.

With gas so cheap, I'm tempted to take a road trip from Northwest Ohio to your place just to see your fabrication wizardry. To say I suck when it comes to such things is like saying the Taliban is not fully onboard with radical feminism. :)

Those amp racks just SCREAM "Quality."

ESCALADOR
11-17-08, 09:52 PM
To say I suck when it comes to such things is like saying the Taliban is not fully onboard with radical feminism. :)

LMAO!! You are something else Techno!!:thumbsup: :alchi:

mbovinet
11-17-08, 10:10 PM
Sweet looking setup!!

Lu Scola
11-17-08, 10:39 PM
Techno I appreciate your post. It was a little blurry to me at first but after reading more thoroughly it makes more sense to me. Especially the part about the tweeter location. Its definitly good info for anyone trying to get the most out of their automotive audio system. It would have been a better write up, and probably easier understood to some of us, if some of the words were better translated. I may have to break out my thesaurus. I am still smarter than a 5th grader...LOL!

technobill
11-18-08, 11:56 AM
As I noted, my original goal was merely to turn you on to David Navone's hardware.

CAVEAT: In order to utilize David's hardware to tap into the unadulterated outputs of the Delco/GM/Bose Head Units you need to know IN ADVANCE the PIN-OUTS of the head units!

1) The adapters that plug into the head units have MANY wires coming from the head unit.

2) The color coding of the wires is irrelevant and in no way intuitive.

3) The position on the rear of the adapter is determinative.

4) The determinative positions change from year to year.

5) I have the pin-outs for the 2002 Escalade, obviously, and the 2005 Escalade ESV, on hard copy somewhere but lost the soft copy [no quick access] during a transition from one computer (employer owned) to another (privately owned)

6) I don't know about other installers/retailers, but the guys at Circuit City who told me it's impossible to get clean outputs from Bose head units have access to them. I was fortunate to find one lone sole who was actually interested in learning, rather than "being right", who gave me access to his computer terminal. And I didn't have to be Commander Data hacking into a Borg Hive Ship to find them. It was about as tough as finding the 'Welcome' mat at someone's house.

7) That sole light in the darkness, which is the retail word, contacted me quite a while later to thank me. While his peers were busy insisting people HAD to replace their head units, he reported that by offering customers more options he got more word of mouth referrals from people who felt he was trying to address their wishes rather than just racking up the most hardware and extended warranty sales. The killer was that many, but not most, of the customers who sent referrals who would speak with no one but him ended up buying new head units anyway. They bought the after market head units because they decided they wanted the utility the after market units afforded, rather than because some sales troll was railroading them. Knowledge Is Power.

technobill
11-18-08, 12:42 PM
Techno I appreciate your post. It was a little blurry to me at first but after reading more thoroughly it makes more sense to me. Especially the part about the tweeter location. It's definitely good info for anyone trying to get the most out of their automotive audio system. It would have been a better write up, and probably more easily understood to some of us, if some of the words were better translated. I may have to break out my thesaurus. I am still smarter than a 5th grader...LOL!

:yup: Sorry about the narrative being as easy to follow as a rant by Charles Manson! I knew the guys who were serious would do the necessary verbal excavations.BUT... I do have good news! It has nothing to do with me switching my car insurance, but rather covers a broad spectrum of "Music, Sound And Physics." In fact, that's the name of a textbook geared to the non-physics major used during fall semester 1979 and spring semester 1980. I don't know if it's even still in print and don't have time to do a search now, but anyone who's set up loudspeakers in a decent sized room has probably encountered, after establishing the equi-distant "sweet spot", that the bass alternatively booms and drops as they're moved back toward, and out away from, the wall. The phenomenon exists whether the speakers are ported or not.

The hard core music addicts would typically spend hours fiddling with the loudspeakers' positions relative to the wall, and their listening position, until the bass sounded right to their ears. A snare should sound like a snare. A kick drum should be deep but tight. A 22 hertz pedal from a Bach organ fugue should be low volume, but make certain pieces of furniture, the floor, and your pectorals resonate.
:sbox: Bass should NOT sound like the National Guard Aviators going supersonic over your ****ing house! But I digress.

As you know, I'm describing the phenomenon of standing waves.

Lu Scola, I'll get back with you, gotta run. Damn! I feel the addiction taking control again. Must fight urge to drive to Baltimore! Must NOT raid financial portfolio to renovate ESV. Must be stron..... Oh God No! The voices are taunting me, make them stop, make them stop, acghhhhhh.......:bonkers::shocked::bulging::batty: :shocked2::gaspspin:

amtrucker22
11-19-08, 03:42 PM
Very clean setup.

comonroots
03-17-11, 08:18 AM
Inspired a project of my own. Thanks for the idea.

comonroots
03-17-11, 08:19 AM
Badass

NW_Caddy
03-19-11, 02:09 AM
Looks really clean

the cadillac man
03-21-11, 09:57 PM
dude i wish i could have something like this in mine but i have bucket seat in the second row oh well just have to go more stealth

jordan00escalade
03-21-11, 10:37 PM
lol.. this is a great post!! TECH makes me want to further my education lol

EDIT: I mean thread

comonroots
04-21-11, 06:18 PM
Hey Lu,
Im currently living in a small town in RI with limited access to custom work such as the Amazing Amp Rack you built. Therefore I am attempting to build one myself. Ive seen the awsome work you all have done but im wondering if you had any of the build itself and possibly some specs or measurements or anything that can assist me. Im interested on how you went about building the base. ie different levels (because of the center hump)and cutouts for frames and computer box in the rear pass seat, etc. Any help would be great. Thanks.