It has been a while since I have heard someone call a Cadillac an old persons car, I use to hear it a lot. Thank the good lord I dont anymore that always got on my nerves. Another perception which is still around and bugs me the most is people think they guzzle gas like crazy such as 8mpg. Probably they think this because they remember the ones from the 70's. Well it aint 1977 anymore and Cadillacs has one of the most adavanced production engines in the world. What are your opinions on what people think of Cadillac to this modern day?

Pimpin:coolgleam cars hehe?

A lot of people I know would much rather drive a Cadillac than any other vehicle out there. Nobody i know calls them old people cars except for those honda boys (ricers), they think they have the greatest cars ever built. I argue with them all the time. Then i show them what grampa's big lac can do. A lot of people say oh you drive a Cadillac i bet that is expensive at the gas pump. I just tell them believe it or not but times have changed and my car is a little more technoligically advanced in that area. (I'm not sure thats how it is spelled.) My Fleetwood gets a whole lot better gas mileage than my fwd Lincoln. If you drive a Caddy around here everybody thinks your rich. which is pretty nice. i work at a hospital and all the hot nurses want to check it out. One of em just loves how big the back seat is and they always ask me for a ride. haha. And to me and everybody else i know that drives or has rode in a Caddy just loves them and want to know where they could get one like mine. Not to many Caddy's are sold around here (unless its new) I've even converted a few honda boys into hardcore Cadillac fans. they always say they dont know what they were thinking driving a honda or whatever. to me there is nothing like cruising through town in a big body Caddy with the brains blowed out (sunroof open) listening to an old skool Dr. Dre CD and hittin a few switches. It just dont get any better.:drinker :coolgleam :yup: :burn:

When we got our STS a friend called it old person car, :banghead:
He rent s CTS for a trip to Florida, when he came back we said it was one of the best cars he ever drove.
The views on Caddy are changing slowly

When I bought my 1993 60 Special in 1993 I too was told it was an "Old Person's Car" to which I replied, "Well, I AM OLD! I'm 47. Immediately, they'd back-step and say, "OH, THAT'S not old!!!" ~ When I bought the Mark 8 in 1998, they said, "THAT'S a gas guzzler" (It got 28MPG on the highway)!! When I bought the 2003 Town Car, they once again said, "That's an old person's car" ~ I said, "Well, I'm an old person - I'm 57. Immediately, they'd back-step and say, "OH, THAT'S not old!!" ~ so, what others percieve, really is inmaterial....Very few people can say, "It's a nice car, best of luck with it". It takes a special kind of person to say just that, and not, "For what you paid, you coulda had a ______________(fill it in, again).

I think that the Escalade is turning it around for the younger people that dont or wouldnt really pay attention to Cadillac.

when its by itself, IE someone comes and talks to you.. They think its really cool, some poeple say its old people car, screw them..... They're not....

From 93+ they think its a brand new model. Hell with my Q45 everyone thinks its uber expensive and new. I asked my friend (who is into cars, kinda) and he said its gotta be at least a 99, and you had to have paid 12k for it..

94 and I paid $5500!

i think its less about caddys being percived as old person cars, and more about them being american build quailty. lets face it, cadillac isnt up to par on quailty such as lexus is, many people i kno like caddys designs but if they had to buy a car they would go for a lexus, bmw, mercedes anyday over a caddy. Belive me, i get compliments from all my freinds, but they would rather spend thier money elsewhere.

Cadillac quality might not be on par with Lexus just yet - but they're getting there. They'll be at the same lever or higher in time.. It's only a matter of time. Reliability is practically RIGHT there, though. Reliability has improved big-time over the years. So Cadillac is headed in the right direction.

As far as how Cadillac is perceived - I think that those who are INTO automobiles realize where Cadillac stands at this point. Those who couldn't care less about cars probably don't realize the change. Then again, who cares about those people who don't care about cars? They probably don't buy very nice vehicles anyway...

i think its less about caddys being percived as old person cars, and more about them being american build quailty. lets face it, cadillac isnt up to par on quailty such as lexus is, many people i kno like caddys designs but if they had to buy a car they would go for a lexus, bmw, mercedes anyday over a caddy. Belive me, i get compliments from all my freinds, but they would rather spend thier money elsewhere.
Thats what i hear most about caddys. Since Honda came out, most people just turned to Japanese made cars (Honda, Toyota, Acura, Lexus) because they were less maintainance(sp?) and low gas mileage, and etc. etc. etc. ALso, since BMW and Mercedes are a lot more accesible now adays, people turn to European made cars. Point is, the jap cars are a "better buy" for the money.

Also, another thing i hear a lot, is that people just dont like the design of the caddys compared to say... BMW or Mercedes. I was with someone yesterday and we saw a new CTS pass by and he said, "Wow, thats small for a Cadillac." Most cadillacs have gotten smaller, and i think that was another appeal, was that they were larger vehicles. Some people think that GM is really overdoing this whole Space & Art (or whatever its called ) design in their vehicles. For example, that new Chevy SSR looks like CRAP; like and el camino and a VW Beetle had a kid. yuck. ALso, *most* american cars have reputation for being cheaply made. Just compare the interior of a Chevy Malibu to a Honda Civic.

Who here would buy Chevy(Cavalier, Malibu) or Ford(Focus, Taurus) car over a Honda/Toyota(Accord, Camry, Civic) car???

To be honest, with the SSR, I think they did it too early.. I dont think the general public is "ready" for styling like that.. Itstoo different

I like the art/science theme but I think the STS looks too much like the CTS... Its different, but its too similar... I know all the BMWs are the same, but thats just saying they are just as bad, and that cadillac isnt better.....

I think that the Escalade is turning it around for the younger people that dont or wouldnt really pay attention to Cadillac.
I think the CTS has really helped break the stereotype also. :)

I think the CTS has really helped break the stereotype also. :)

It really has...just look at it......its been featured in the Matrix; along with the Escalade too, alot of young people see that movie and say "Hey, I didnt know Cadillacs were cool enough to be in the Matrix" Well, now they are and in my opinion have been for the past 10 years.

I think Rapers and Pop culture in general has really helped.

Who here would buy Chevy(Cavalier, Malibu) or Ford(Focus, Taurus) car over a Honda/Toyota(Accord, Camry, Civic) car???

The new Malibu is actually quite a nice well engineered car. I drove one the other day...very nice quiet ride, solid handling, and lots of room.

The new Malibu is actually quite a nice well engineered car. I drove one the other day...very nice quiet ride, solid handling, and lots of room.
Im not saying that chevys are BAD, but they just aren't up to par with jap cars. especially in reliability. I've always thought that *most* american cars were engineered quite well, (i kinda like the malibu maxx, it looks well designed and also the new dodge magnum) but as we all know, most american cars can't even try to compare to jap cars in terms of RELIABILITY. What i mean, is how often do you have to take a car to the shop to get it fixed. Jap cars hardly EVEr. american cars on the other hand, especially dodges and fords, are quite a different story.

Chevrolet is pretty reliable trust me on that they are as good as Toyota almost. I would buy a Impala over a Camry any day.

are as good as Toyota almost
Almost - key word - the problem that chevy has right now is the "american revolution" thing they've got goin' on. I think that their trucks are great, esp. the silverado. but would you really buy a chevy cavalier if you could get a civic???

I would never buy a cavaleir but with the new Cobalt it may be a somewhat challenging decision. Dont get me wrong I think Civics are great!

We have a total of 3 cavalier and a sunfire from 86 to 2003
eachhad over 70000 miles on it.
'86 trade in for a Safri SLT had 4 kids living at home when and Ford wagon died
1996 Calalier, lease for one daughter to go to collage 120 miles round trip.
1997 Sunfire bought it for the wife that was a mistake as the sale peson also let her take out a 97 Grand Prix load, so in Sept of 98 she got her Grand Prix
and I drove the sunfire for another 2 years until I got my pick up truck.
1999 Calvier, lease that for another daughter to go to school100 miles round trip she had that until she total it in 2003.
I know a number of service people who is use Calvier and Sunfire for service work and very few problem.
Why pay $5000 more for a Civic when a Calvier is more then a good car.
I think they look much better.

Let's see... when I was a kid, the first car I owned was a beater 1984 Olds Delta 88. P.O.S.-but wasn't taken car of before me, either. Second car, a 1985 Buick LeSabre. The BIG one. Great running/driving car, and I got it for a dollar. Had to junk it eventually because of cracked manifolds and no money. I was in high school and my parents demanded that I pay for any car and the responsibility of owning one.

My next car was a 1984 Audi 4000s that was, IMHO a great car to drive, except the fuel pump kept failing and leaving me stranded until I could fix it, and it wouldn't start in the rain, and blah blah blah blah blah. Some old lady from Massachusetts smashed it and put it out of its misery.

My next car was a 1991 Pontiac Sunbird that I bought with 111,000 miles on it. That car drove from seacoast southern Maine to everywhere within 800 miles of it. It religiously went to NYC, Montreal, Boston (weekly for school), Buffalo, and yes, even the mean streets of New Haven and Springfield, MA. I sold it for 100 dollars with 220,000 miles with the original engine and transmission. And get this-- it only had 4 oil changes during that period of driving!!! HA! I was young and naive back then.

I'd like to see a Civic stand up to that amount of neglect and abuse. I could have driving that Sunbird for another 50,000 miles with no 80 dollar an hour import mechanics.:dammit:

When I bought my 1993 60 Special in 1993 I too was told it was an "Old Person's Car" to which I replied, "Well, I AM OLD! I'm 47. Immediately, they'd back-step and say, "OH, THAT'S not old!!!" ~ When I bought the Mark 8 in 1998, they said, "THAT'S a gas guzzler" (It got 28MPG on the highway)!! When I bought the 2003 Town Car, they once again said, "That's an old person's car" ~ I said, "Well, I'm an old person - I'm 57. Immediately, they'd back-step and say, "OH, THAT'S not old!!" ~ so, what others percieve, really is inmaterial....Very few people can say, "It's a nice car, best of luck with it". It takes a special kind of person to say just that, and not, "For what you paid, you coulda had a ______________(fill it in, again).
Sandy, let me the first person to say to you. "Congratulations, that's a nice car, best of luck with it." :lildevil:

I own a 93 Seville STS with 80K, I always get. "thats a nice Cad" "that Northstar is a good engine" and also " I wish I could afford one of those" I paid cheap for mine at 7K dollars with 70K on the clock and that is with a 3Year 30K bumper to bumper warrenty, owned by one man that is family of a huge dealership in portland that does not sell C ads. I also own a 2003 Subaru Outback loaded with all the options, I bought it brand new with 30miles and now I have 20K on it and found it also came loaded with PROBLEMS. This is my second JAP CRAP car. now I will only by GM product. I feel its hit and miss with any car. I also think Toyota and Honda are way way over rated. Sorry for the rant but its ben bugging me. :drinker
:hide:

I have owned the following Cadillacs 97 Eldorado ETC, 99 Deville DTS, 2001 Deville DTS, 2003 Deville DTS which I still have and a 2004 SRX. I had 1 repair action on the 99, clock still running on the 2003 and 2004. The cars aren't babyed (love the sound of a Northstar at full throttle coming on the expressway).

My neighbor is from Luxembourg and was an automotive engineer. Everytime he gets arrogant about Stuttgart I offer to compare cost of ownership and car availability with his BMWs any time he is willing. He knows all about BMW service, I don't know much about Cadillac service because I don't have to. I also owned a couple of Corvettes (98 and 2001) I'm just too old to climb in and out anymore. Believe it or not, they make goo stable mates. Both with stabilitrack, both with GM quality (that is no longer an oxymoron) both fun to drive.

My dad always said you haven't owned a car until you've owned a Cadillac. guess what, he's right.

I once had a punk kid walk up to me when I was driving the 2001 Vette. He askd how fast it would go. I said it's supposed to do 165 and the only reson I haven't done it is I don't want to go to jail. The jerk said, is that all. I then pointed out that it had 2 CD players electric everything, heads up display, memory, power everything was extremely comfortable and price per performance or price per any other paramater was better than anything he could show me. And besides that it started and ran every day, day after day. I could say the same about the Caddys I now own (except Caddy is still behind the times and has no HUD. A little bigger, probably only good for 135 MPH or so but. Also enjoy knowing I'm not enriching a former WWII enemy. Sorry, I'm not a PC type of person.

I have owned the following Cadillacs 97 Eldorado ETC, 99 Deville DTS, 2001 Deville DTS, 2003 Deville DTS which I still have and a 2004 SRX. I had 1 repair action on the 99, clock still running on the 2003 and 2004. The cars aren't babyed (love the sound of a Northstar at full throttle coming on the expressway).

My neighbor is from Luxembourg and was an automotive engineer. Everytime he gets arrogant about Stuttgart I offer to compare cost of ownership and car availability with his BMWs any time he is willing. He knows all about BMW service, I don't know much about Cadillac service because I don't have to. I also owned a couple of Corvettes (98 and 2001) I'm just too old to climb in and out anymore. Believe it or not, they make goo stable mates. Both with stabilitrack, both with GM quality (that is no longer an oxymoron) both fun to drive.

My dad always said you haven't owned a car until you've owned a Cadillac. guess what, he's right.

I once had a love god kid walk up to me when I was driving the 2001 Vette. He askd how fast it would go. I said it's supposed to do 165 and the only reson I haven't done it is I don't want to go to jail. The jerk said, is that all. I then pointed out that it had 2 CD players electric everything, heads up display, memory, power everything was extremely comfortable and price per performance or price per any other paramater was better than anything he could show me. And besides that it started and ran every day, day after day. I could say the same about the Caddys I now own (except Caddy is still behind the times and has no HUD. A little bigger, probably only good for 135 MPH or so but. Also enjoy knowing I'm not enriching a former WWII enemy. Sorry, I'm not a PC type of person.

You and I are gonna get along just fine. ;)

My Dad said something very similar to what yours said, and he is on his second Cadillac now. They are the car to own, especially back in their day, and today with the recent JD Power ratings. He keeps them a long time, but has several cars so doesn't put very high mileage on them. He's never had any trouble with the cars and his mint 1979 Nova has never broke down. He also has a 2003 DTS, and no one in my family has owned a Jap or German car. For some people (reasons you describe) it just doesn't seem right to own one of those cars.

I do like the styling of the new BMW 645ci though, :hide: but that's about as far as it goes.

Cadi's down here in the heart of ol' folks land are as common as cockroaches. A good number of younger (under 50) people buy them as used cars so I don't really get many comment on the car about it being an old peoples car.

I do get "You must be rich to afford a Cadillac" Usually my answer to that is "Why yes I am, why do you ask?" even though I only paid 4500 for mine and they are making payments on something they paid 25k for. I figure if they can be obnoxious so can I :bighead:

I also get the comment a lot about the car using a lot of gas. I don't know how GM pulled it off but I regularly get 19/26 with my '94 and I don't drive it that easy. PT Cruisers don't get mileage that good and they don't have enough power to get out of their own way.

Reliability is getting on my nerves lately. EGR valve, baro sensor, idle speed motor, $800 per each shocks and the radio just died. I'm a little disappointed that all these things have failed at 70k.

I bought with 111,000 miles on it. That car drove from seacoast southern Maine to everywhere within 800 miles of it. It religiously went to NYC, Montreal, Boston (weekly for school), Buffalo, and yes, even the mean streets of New Haven and Springfield, MA. I sold it for 100 dollars with 220,000 miles with the original engine and transmission. And get this-- it only had 4 oil changes during that period of driving!!! HA! I was young and naive back then.

Did anyone else cringe when they read this?? :eek: ... lol I hope my caddy lasts me for a while. its got 114 on a 94 Concours and I couldn't afford to get anything else if this thing dies. Its been pretty reliable the last thousand miles. I'm hoping that it keeps it up

Yeah, that goes against everything i stand for haha. I wonder if thats a sin to treat your car like that haha?

Getting back to the topic (How Cadillac is Percieved), last night I went to a dealer close to my office (Foley-Rice Cadillac, Oak Park) and I got to see first hand one of the reasons Cadillac is not considered by all as "worthy competition". First, the dealer had about 12 cars in the showroom, only about half were new, over half had Vouges, fake hardtops, fake gold trim, pinstriping to make Dracula gag and wheels to make Biggie and Tupac come back to life (Biggie and Tupac are, to all older folks, a rap refference).

Now, if those are your thing, excuse me, diffrent strokes, for diffrent folkes. It's just that, mostly those are modifications only seen in Cadillacs driven by your local pimp, drug dealer or rapper. Well, the dealer has spoken, and very, very few BMW, MB, Audi, Jaguar, Porsche or VW buyers will feel wanted.

Remember, modify your car any way you like, my issue is with a Cadillac dealer doing it. :devil:

Getting back to the topic (How Cadillac is Percieved), last night I went to a dealer close to my office (Foley-Rice Cadillac, Oak Park) and I got to see first hand one of the reasons Cadillac is not considered by all as "worthy competition". First, the dealer had about 12 cars in the showroom, only about half were new, over half had Vouges, fake hardtops, fake gold trim, pinstriping to make Dracula gag and wheels to make Biggie and Tupac come back to life (Biggie and Tupac are, to all older folks, a rap refference).
well RERM, (i don't want to sound racist or anything) but you have to look at who is buying caddys (for the most part anyways) - Old white guys that grew up knowing no other luxary car but caddy and black people who don't care about driving Audis or VW or etc. who just want a Caddy because that is the ultimate luxary car for them (at least down in here in the south it is).
So the dealer was probably going for the young black audience with all of that modification. After all, every rap star has to have a caddy (most of them have escalades with the tvs in the headrest and the subs in the back, etc.) and young black guys DO look up to major hip hop stars.so........

In Arkansas (where im at) there's only one Cadillac dealer (Parker Cadillac) and they tend to focus towards the old white guys audience. They play classical music in the showroom and the xlr is on a revolving platform......you get the picture...

You and I are gonna get along just fine. ;)

My Dad said something very similar to what yours said, and he is on his second Cadillac now. They are the car to own, especially back in their day, and today with the recent JD Power ratings. He keeps them a long time, but has several cars so doesn't put very high mileage on them. He's never had any trouble with the cars and his mint 1979 Nova has never broke down. He also has a 2003 DTS, and no one in my family has owned a Jap or German car. For some people (reasons you describe) it just doesn't seem right to own one of those cars.

I do like the styling of the new BMW 645ci though, :hide: but that's about as far as it goes.
i dont understand how people like you think about things like that. ( i dont mean that in a bad way) im just sayin so you wouldnt buy a chrysler even though its an american name, but its owned my a german comopany??? the mercedes ML class is built in Kentucky, i bleive the Toyota Camry is also built in the US as well as many mazda cars (that ford ownes) The world is so globalized now, that that kind of thinking of 'buying american' dosnt work anymore. In my opinion, just buy whatever you like, who cares where it was made. If you like american cars better buy them because you liek them better, if you like japanese cars or german cars better buy those then.

i dont understand how people like you think about things like that. ( i dont mean that in a bad way) im just sayin so you wouldnt buy a chrysler even though its an american name, but its owned my a german comopany??? the mercedes ML class is built in Kentucky, i bleive the Toyota Camry is also built in the US as well as many mazda cars (that ford ownes) The world is so globalized now, that that kind of thinking of 'buying american' dosnt work anymore. In my opinion, just buy whatever you like, who cares where it was made. If you like american cars better buy them because you liek them better, if you like japanese cars or german cars better buy those then.
My grandfathers are kinda like that. I think it has to do with two things mainly:

1 - They grew up with Ford and Chevy and AMC Ramblers and Dashs etc. before Hondas even existed in this country.
2 - My grandfather bombed Tokyo (he was a Doolitle Raider for those who are history buffs) and he has ALWAYS hated the Japs since then. To my knowledge nearly every car he's ever had was american. right now he has a ford LTD (the land yacht) and before that he had an oldsmobile. My other grandpa's dad was a chevy dealer, so of course he drives nothin but GM. Right now he has a STS, Corvette and a Silverado.

wheels to make Biggie and Tupac come back to life (Biggie and Tupac are, to all older folks, a rap refference).


We're old, not stupid!!!:D :D :D

i dont understand how people like you think about things like that. ( i dont mean that in a bad way) im just sayin so you wouldnt buy a chrysler even though its an american name, but its owned my a german comopany??? the mercedes ML class is built in Kentucky, i bleive the Toyota Camry is also built in the US as well as many mazda cars (that ford ownes) The world is so globalized now, that that kind of thinking of 'buying american' dosnt work anymore. In my opinion, just buy whatever you like, who cares where it was made. If you like american cars better buy them because you liek them better, if you like japanese cars or german cars better buy those then.

:confused: Of course I would buy a Chrysler! Are you sure you quoted the right person? I also thought Chrysler wasn't COMPLETELY owned by Benz, just part of it? If people like my Dad have always bought cars with American names and never had much trouble with them, why change now?

Sure the world is globalized, but do you think it's "globalized" to a point where the money doesn't go overseas anymore if you buy a Toyota? Here is a question I asked a certain someone who never had the courage to answer on another thread, and I would like it explained. He also believed there was no difference if you buy a Benz or a Cadillac, here goes, I'll ask you. ;) If the world is so globalized, and all auto companies are so involved with each other, then if everyone (in NA) bought a Toyota, Honda, Lexus, BMW, etc. for one month it should NOT effect the American economy, right or wrong????? I say WRONG. It will have severe impact on the U.S. and Canadian economy because (for example) the domestic dealerships would have to close down because Ford, GM, or Chrysler would not be able to support/pay their dealers, and they would be laid off. This in turn effects and increases inflation because no one is buying American cars, so the prices might go up to make-up the difference. In some cases it goes down in the form of rebates, but that's what we are seeing with the recent gas price hikes, not massive unemployment, etc.

In some cases, globalization is not working that well for auto companies IMO. Look at Ford of Europe. They were 8 billion in debt recently (I posted an article on this somewhere) and it is having drastic consequences for Ford of North America. The Mercedes ML class built in Kentucky had a lot of quality issues I've read. So much so that Mercedes was embarrassed enough they were going to relocate the plant. (can't remember where I read this, perhaps it was just speculation) People can buy whatever they want, I don't care, but I think markets are effected by the purchase of specific products. Personally I believe the quality on the brand new Cadillacs is just as good as anything out there, even Mercedes! That's my perception of Cadillac. Just some thoughts to help you understand me I guess. :halo:

"If my Chevy aint broke, I'm not gonna fix it." :D

i dont understand how people like you think about things like that. ( i dont mean that in a bad way)
I'm not the person you were quoting but I am a die hard buy American guy. When I buy a product my first choice is always going to be to buy an American made product by an American owned company. Even if I have to pay more for the item this is true.

If it came down to buying a foreign car built in America or an American car built out of the country I would choose the foreign car as I don't agree with the "build it in Mexico because they will work for less" line of business thinking that goes on now. Unfortunatley that isn't an option for many things today. You can't buy a television that is made in America anymore. Same thing is true of most electronic things.

My whole point is I want my money to stay in the country and to go to American workers. I also want this country to still be able to function without the products of another country if it were to come to it.

Steve B.

I think historically Cadillac has been perceived as a car for old farts. With their new advertisement campaign (and designs) they're doing a great job of attracting younger buyers.

As far as the rapper/filthy rich community...if you look at what these guys own: ie. Ferarri, Lamborghini, Mercedes AMG, etc. They also own a cadillac. Why do you think that is? My opinion is that in addition to the stigma of being the car for old people Cadillac also has the reputation for being a step above other cars in terms of luxury.

I have owned my Escallade for less than a month. When I was shopping at the dealer (in Arkansas) I don't recall ever seing any silver/blue hair little old people on the lot. There are tons of young professionals in NW Arkansas that also drive Cadillac. My personal choice for buying a Cadillac (other then stated) has to do with it being a GM product. I have (with little exception) always driven some kind of GM product, and reliability has never been a concern for me.

I will grudgingly admit that there seem to be lots of Cadillacs on the road with handicap license plates and blue-haired old ladies driving them. I do believe that nowdays that is the exception, and NOT the rule.:tisk:

:confused: Of course I would buy a Chrysler! Are you sure you quoted the right person? I also thought Chrysler wasn't COMPLETELY owned by Benz, just part of it? If people like my Dad have always bought cars with American names and never had much trouble with them, why change now?

...

In some cases, globalization is not working that well for auto companies IMO. Look at Ford of Europe. The Mercedes ML class built in Kentucky had a lot of quality issues I've read. So much so that Mercedes was embarrassed enough they were going to relocate the plant. (can't remember where I read this, perhaps it was just speculation) People can buy whatever they want, I don't care, but I think markets are effected by the purchase of specific products.

...

Personally I believe the quality on the brand new Cadillacs is just as good as anything out there, even Mercedes! That's my perception of Cadillac. Just some thoughts to help you understand me I guess. :halo:

1. I also thought Chrysler wasn't COMPLETELY owned by Benz, just part of it?

Chrysler is wholly owned by Daimler-Benz.


2. In some cases, globalization is not working that well for auto companies IMO.

Benz put in their hand-picked management team in place at Chrysler and now Chrysler is coming out with truly innovative, awesome products--has anyone driven a 300C? The Japanese at Nissan-Infinit put in a Frenchman in charge of their company and now Nissan is also putting out some awesome products. Until he passed away that most American of all companies, Coca-Cola, was run by a man born in Cuba. My kids bought me a Canon Rebel Digital SLR. The camera is made in Taiwan, to cut costs. Yet, the camera is as good, or even better, than the Canon cameras made n Japan.

Globalization is the wave of the future, and not just for the auto industry. In the short run it may cause some economic displacements; in the long run, however, it will mean increased wealth for everyone.

3. The Mercedes ML class built in Kentucky had a lot of quality issues I've read.

Not anymore than the SRX (as posted here) has had. And what's that? Americans from Kentucky (or Tennessee) don't know enough about putting together a quality car? :hmm:

4. Personally I believe the quality on the brand new Cadillacs is just as good as anything out there, even Mercedes!

That's just an opinion, not necessarily based on empirical data. The new Caddies are just "too new" for anyone to judge whether their quality is superior to anything currently out on the road. :bonkers:

Sure new Caddies look, feel and even smell good. Time, however, will tell whether they can match the build-quality of other car makes.

Incidentally, "quality" is an elusive, hard to quantify factor. Quality, per se, is not the end-all, be-all that we like to think.

For example, during WWII, Germany made the most technically advanced tanks that ever roamed (up to that point) a battlefield. By comparison, our own Sherman tanks were puny, under-powered and under-armored. But whereas Germany could only manufacture the Panzers in small numbers, we could make 1000's of Sherman tanks. What if we lost 10 Sherman tanks for every Panzer tank that was destroyed in battle? At the end of the day we still had more tanks out in the battlefield than the Germans could ever field.

End result? We won the war.

Europeans (and for that matter, most people in the world, including our northern and southern neighbors) are not as affluent as we Americans are. Consequently, the average European's car-buying strategy is aimed at purchasing a long-running car that will last a long time and will not change much (style wise) over the years of ownership.

In America (the land of the 3-year auto lease) we can afford to (and want to) change cars every few years. Therefore car manufacturers are less concerned with long-term durability. That, in itself, has an adverse effect on a car's depreciation.

If you don't believe it, try this experiment. Go to any Benz dealer and ask for an interior trim part for say, a 1967 250SE. If the dealer does not have the part in stock, you can still have the part delivered to you within 48 hours. Now go to a Cadillac, Chevy or Chrysler dealer and ask for an interior trim part for, let's say a 1989 Seville. Their answer will be--go to a junk yard and see if you can get it from them. (Incidentally, the above examples are based upon real-life experiences).

Keeping a well-supplied stock of spare parts, even for aging cars, helps to: (1) improve the perception of one brand's quality over the other and (2) help retain the value of a car over the years.

American industry has done some wonderful things over the years. We were, and still are, the manufacturing leaders of the world. But there is a lot we can learn from others. If we cross our arms over our collective chest and claim that we are No. 1, and therefore have nothing to learn from others, then our position of leadership will be severely compromised.

Caddies are good cars, but GM could stand to learn a few lessons from other companies--Benz included.

Maybe then, good could turn into superlative and there would be no debate as to which is best: domestic or imported.

Politics aside,I think we drive Caddys because WE like them.Mine are not the same animal as some others drive, but I think we share a common thread of what a Caddy represents.I can't think of any one car mentioned in so many popular songs as the Cadillac.Whether it is a big 50s fin monster or an emissions choked 80s slug or a new Escalade, they stand as a solid piece of Americana.I've owned big American luxury cars since I was a long haired teenager,and some people admired them while others just shook their heads.That is still the case today.It all comes down to a matter of perception.I see people drooling over Camaros and Mustangs and various imports and I don't understand.To me they are just belly button cars that all look the same.A Caddy is somewhat of an egomaniac vehicle, but so is a Harley-Davidson,and look how many people, including myself, own those. It is not because they are the most sophisticated or fastest or best designed,it is because they have an undeniable aura around them that many find appealing.There will always be the crowd who want hybrid Hondas and Tauruses,and mini-vans. To them I say ''If I have to explain, you wouldn,t understand"

1. I also thought Chrysler wasn't COMPLETELY owned by Benz, just part of it?

Chrysler is wholly owned by Daimler-Benz.

Thanks for updating me on that.

Funny you mentioning your camera, mine just bit the dust today! $120 Minolta automatic and now it's worthless because the plastic tab broke on the battery door. Much like new Cadillacs, like you said, give that new Canon some time and we'll see how it holds up because it's too soon to tell right now concerning quality. You are "perceiving" it to be a better product than one in Japan. :tisk: Time will tell.

3. The Mercedes ML class built in Kentucky had a lot of quality issues I've read.

[color=black]Not anymore than the SRX

Does the SRX have this many problems? Or are they just perceived? And don't bother saying "time will tell for the SRX" because many of the ML problems are serious, an at lower mileage.

http://www.mercedes-benz-usa.com/ml_class.php

You might want to make note of the 4th post in this link. You may be able to get MOST parts for any Benz, (except this guy's cat converter that Mercedes changed the part number to and now costs $1,500! per side and on back order in U.S. and Germany!) but I'll take your word for it. :rolleyes2

"Incidentally, "quality" is an elusive, hard to quantify factor. Quality, per se, is not the end-all, be-all that we like to think.

For example, during WWII, Germany made the most technically advanced tanks that ever roamed (up to that point) a battlefield. By comparison, our own Sherman tanks were puny, under-powered and under-armored. But whereas Germany could only manufacture the Panzers in small numbers, we could make 1000's of Sherman tanks. What if we lost 10 Sherman tanks for every Panzer tank that was destroyed in battle? At the end of the day we still had more tanks out in the battlefield than the Germans could ever field.

End result? We won the war."


We won the war because we were better equipped to fight it, period! The Shermans were never meant to fight heavy tanks head to head, but often they had to. They were a medium tank meant for troop support, not tank battles. By 1943-44 our heavy tanks were faster better handling and had bigger cannon than anything the Germans dreamed of. There is a myth and I mean a MYTH, that anything from Germany is better engineered. It ain't so Bunky!! The Germans do build great stuff, they also build junk, like everyone else.
I hear people tout the jets the Germans used late in the war, big deal, they would fly ten hours between overhauls. They were very hard to fly, wouldn't turn at speed and were almost impossible to land safely! The Americans and Britts were testing jets before the war, just like the Germans, we new they were'nt ready for combat. The Germans were desperate for a miracle, so they threw out all the experimental stuff they had, hoping something would work. It didn't, we reduced thier cities and factories to shambles. Then we spent billions rebuilding thier country. This included much of the technology used at BMW and MB plants in the '50's and '60's. ;)

Again, getting back to the topic, some things that have to improve before Cadillac's image is fully revitilized:

1. As long as Cadillac dealers are hit or miss (Vouges, 20 inch spinners, crappy service) premium clients will go to Lexus.

2. Stop the discounting!!! it only cheapens the brand's image!!!

3. Keep improving on quality and reliability.

4. Use finer looking trim (specifically the plastic)

5. Having a Cadillac dealer sell Chevy's or other GM models out of the same showroom might not be everyone's idea of exclusivity.(not a major point for me, but it is for some)

Do used car salesmen drive Cadillacs? I had someone comment on that the other day.