: what kind of peace keeper does your V carry?



814V
10-16-08, 07:15 PM
and where do you put it? I've been thinking of getting something and just wanted to see what everyone else is using.. I should say that here in the wild wild west it's ok to have a hand gun in the car as long as it is visible. before I make a purchase I will get my CCW so It shouldn't be a issue

perfect
10-16-08, 07:31 PM
right up on the dash like everybody else....

LV_V
10-16-08, 07:33 PM
SA XD45 w/ tritium sites, tucked between the passenger seat and the center console.

MauiV
10-16-08, 07:35 PM
SA XD.40 Sitting on the passenger seat or in the cup holder if I have a passenger since it has to be in plain sight since I dont have carry/conceal yet.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/jdinmaui/Maggiegun006.jpg

Max-Q
10-16-08, 07:36 PM
Kimber Custom Pro II TLE/RL 1911 .45 under the driver's seat

DownSouthV
10-16-08, 07:38 PM
Ruger 357 magnum..i dont carry it all the time... only when i go downtown and such. I just leave it in the passenger seat unless i have a passenger or i sit it on the center consol. http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg39-e.htm <---looks just like that ;)

jashearer
10-16-08, 07:49 PM
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/acusi1989/IMGP0785.jpg













:hide:
Jay

rand49er
10-16-08, 07:53 PM
I've got a Daisy BB pistol for rabbits and chipmunks ... does that count? :rolleyes:

2003RC51
10-16-08, 08:46 PM
Either a S&W M&P 9

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/vlocit/MyProtection001.jpg




Or a Eclipse Custom II

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/vlocit/MyProtection.jpg



Casual Night I'll take the 9, More Formal I'll take the 45:D

NormV
10-16-08, 08:58 PM
G27 is always on me. No sense in having the situation between me and my car where the unit is. Things can happen too fast.

CCW in Ohio. I'd recommend the course even if redundant as the info gets picked when the law enforcement runs your plate. They practically hit the brakes when following. :)

Then follow it up with some legalize like Lethal Force Institute offers as you'll find out if you have to defend yourself there will most likely be a civil suit on behalf of the victims family.

Stay sharp,

Norm

Twitch
10-16-08, 09:10 PM
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/acusi1989/IMGP0785.jpg













:hide:
Jay
You can throw it in the trunk on those snowy days.

dkozloski
10-16-08, 11:11 PM
Here in Alaska, if the weapon is legal for you to own; i.e. you're not a felon or insane, you can carry it concealed and no permit is required. I carry a Walther PPK/s 9mm Kurtz, everywhere I go.

Rolex
10-16-08, 11:30 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but whats this CCW ??


Concealed carry weapon


r

"wild wild west". ???
What the shyte you talkin about. This is North a freakin America. Aint no wild wild nothin.


I wonder the same thing....Kansas or New Jersey?!?




Why the hell arent you askin bout firearms in a fire arm site ?


Last I checked there are no rules against firearms discussion here. ;)




I should say that here in the wild wild west it's ok to have a hand gun in the car as long as it is visible.

"OK to have it" but that doesn't guarantee you won't be arrested by some hot head cop. Furthermore, most judges won't be easy on you for possession of a handgun unless you're licensed. GET YOUR LICENSE and don't try to explain to cops how legal it is to open carry without a license.....even though you may be in the right they WILL arrest you. :yup:

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
10-16-08, 11:41 PM
Me and most of my friend's all have night sticks in our glove boxes. Its more just for fun, being able to tell people you have a night stick in your car. Never used it but it still makes me feel a little better knowing I have something a bit longer than just my pocket knife. My neighborhood ain't really the type for street violence though, thank God.

Murphyg
10-16-08, 11:44 PM
Thanx Rolex !

I was tryin to remember your name while sayin some of the things I wanted to say/ask.
But for some reason, I couldnt recall your name; the name that Ive always associated to the semblance of reason when it comes to discussions of fire arms.

Thanx again Rolex.

Rolex
10-16-08, 11:46 PM
Me and most of my friend's all have night sticks in our glove boxes. Its more just for fun, being able to tell people you have a night stick in your car. Never used it but it still makes me feel a little better knowing I have something a bit longer than just my pocket knife. My neighborhood ain't really the type for street violence though, thank God.

That baton could very well be considered a weapon. There are several states now that items like batons require a license to possess on your person. I'll check on Illinois for you, but don't go swinging that thing at anybody! K

Rolex
10-16-08, 11:51 PM
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt.+24&ActID=1876&ChapAct=720%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B5%2F&ChapterID=53&ChapterName=CRIMINAL+OFFENSES&SectionID=60752&SeqStart=50800000&SeqEnd=53500000&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961.



ARTICLE 24. DEADLY WEAPONS

(720 ILCS 5/24‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24‑1)
(Text of Section from P.A. 95‑809)
Sec. 24‑1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
(1) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or

carries any bludgeon, black‑jack, slung‑shot, sand‑club, sand‑bag, metal knuckles or other knuckle weapon regardless of its composition, throwing star, or any knife, commonly referred to as a switchblade knife, which has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife, or a ballistic knife, which is a device that propels a knifelike blade as a projectile by means of a coil spring, elastic material or compressed gas; or
(2) Carries or possesses with intent to use the same

unlawfully against another, a dagger, dirk, billy, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto, broken bottle or other piece of glass, stun gun or taser or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character; or
(3) Carries on or about his person or in any

vehicle, a tear gas gun projector or bomb or any object containing noxious liquid gas or substance, other than an object containing a non‑lethal noxious liquid gas or substance designed solely for personal defense carried by a person 18 years of age or older; or


You'd better lose the club. :hide: "Billy" will encompass billy clubs and batons.....and maybe even billy goats! :shhh: The term "any bludgeon" can emcompass almost any blunt instrument that can be used as a weapon. Illinois statues against "weapons" is very, VERY broad. They even list a broken bottle in their statutes.

Murphyg
10-16-08, 11:53 PM
Me and most of my friend's all have night sticks in our glove boxes. Its more just for fun, being able to tell people you have a night stick in your car. Never used it but it still makes me feel a little better knowing I have something a bit longer than just my pocket knife. My neighborhood ain't really the type for street violence though, thank God.

That aint really nothin new.
Late 60's early 70's my Old Man always had tire iron under his seat.
Then again he did grow up in qu'bec....but besides the point....is the way it was and will be the way it is.


You dont have protect so as to brag and show off. You have protect to protect.........Anything other then that makes you a chump !!!!!!!

helogene
10-16-08, 11:56 PM
You say you're in the "480", as in area code?? The General Phoenix Metro Area, if I have that correct.

You CAN usually have a HOLSTERED weapon in your car, IN ARIZONA, under the seat, in the glove box, etc, WITH OUT having a CCW (Concealed Weapons Permit).

I would steer you to AR15.com, there's a "HOMETOWN" section where you can ask all kinds of Arizona, or other state specific questions, and do lot's and LOTS of research.

Beyond just Carrying a weapon in your car, on your person, or in your home, LEARN how to use it, WHEN to use it, and WHEN NOT TO USE IT....

Murphyg
10-17-08, 12:27 AM
........................................

Beyond just Carrying a weapon in your car, on your person, or in your home, LEARN how to use it, WHEN to use it, and WHEN NOT TO USE IT....

YA ......!!!!! THAT !!!!! All That ^^ Up There ^^^^^ :thepan:

Spyder
10-17-08, 01:13 AM
Thanx Rolex !

I was tryin to remember your name while sayin some of the things I wanted to say/ask.
But for some reason, I couldnt recall your name; the name that Ive always associated to the semblance of reason when it comes to discussions of fire arms.

Thanx again Rolex.


But...but...but...what about Spyder-man, yo?

:highfive:

Rolex
10-17-08, 09:05 AM
But...but...but...what about Spyder-man, yo?

:highfive:

I steel all my info about firearms from Spyder. :hide: ;)

Florian
10-17-08, 10:45 AM
G27 is always on me. No sense in having the situation between me and my car where the unit is. Things can happen too fast.

CCW in Ohio. I'd recommend the course even if redundant as the info gets picked when the law enforcement runs your plate. They practically hit the brakes when following. :)

Then follow it up with some legalize like Lethal Force Institute offers as you'll find out if you have to defend yourself there will most likely be a civil suit on behalf of the victims family.

Stay sharp,

Norm


+1

I carry a Govt. issue Colt 1911A1 (circa 1951) that my uncle gave after he discharged from the Navy.


F

"G$"
10-17-08, 10:52 AM
Do you guys really carry guns on you or in your car most of the time?

Every time I see a guy getting out of his CTS-V from now on I'm going to think that he's packing. I never knew so many people LOVE GUNS and carry guns regularly until i came to this forum. I guess you learn something new every day. I have a rifle but do not own a handgun. Where I live in Southern Maine it is very safe for the most part with low crime rates so I've never seen the need to carry one.

Florian
10-17-08, 11:07 AM
I carry on my person....whether Im in the car or truck or walking down the street.


F

nickc50310
10-17-08, 11:51 AM
Ugh I really need to hurry up and get my CHL. I doubt Ill get er done this year and hopefully our next sherriff is as pro gun as our current one who is retiring this year. No more classes available this year that I am aware of.

At any rate my firearm of choice is my SA XD .40 bi tone- same as the one on the first page.

Its sort of funny to see canadaians and chicagoans in this thread!

caddydaddy
10-17-08, 12:54 PM
Do you guys really carry guns on you or in your car most of the time?


I carry with me everytime, everywhere that it is legal. It's easier to carry a gun around than a cop! :thumbsup:


Where I live in Southern Maine it is very safe for the most part with low crime rates so I've never seen the need to carry one.

Haha, with the crime rate going up everywhere, including Portland, I carry!

Rolex
10-17-08, 12:55 PM
Do you guys really carry guns on you or in your car most of the time?


VVV this:


I carry on my person....whether Im in the car or truck or walking down the street.


F

The law does not allow me to carry a firearm to work (hospital). Otherwise 99.9% of the time I wear a firearm. Concealed and licensed of course.

Red_October_7000
10-17-08, 01:06 PM
I've got a big-ass mag-lite in the door pocket in my truck... Nice thing is it's a flashlight, not a "billy" but any cop alive will tell you it makes a great truncheon if you need it to be. I don't have the cash to buy a decent pistol and don't want to buy some huge goofy thing like a TEC-9... are those even still made? I'm not going through all the ag it takes in MA to get a permit just to have some stamped metal job so big I can't carry it.

nickc50310
10-17-08, 01:17 PM
See one thing that hasnt really got my butt into high gear to get my CHL is the fact that I could hardly ever actually carry. I obviously cant carry at the bar and since i work for the state I obviously cant carry at work. Hell, those are the only two reasons I ever leave my house!

"G$"
10-17-08, 01:31 PM
I carry with me everytime, everywhere that it is legal. It's easier to carry a gun around than a cop! :thumbsup:



Haha, with the crime rate going up everywhere, including Portland, I carry!


Please! Portland is tame as sh1t besides the occasional bar fight. I'm going to do some research on Maine's gun laws, this is getting to interesting.

caddydaddy
10-17-08, 04:14 PM
Please! Portland is tame as sh1t besides the occasional bar fight.

Yes, notice the "haha" before I said that! Crime isn't bad, mostly burglaries lately.



I'm going to do some research on Maine's gun laws, this is getting to interesting.

What do you need to know? Open carry is legal, although it freaks out the Canadian tourists! :) Concealed carry requires a permit.

"G$"
10-17-08, 04:27 PM
Yes, notice the "haha" before I said that! Crime isn't bad, mostly burglaries lately.




What do you need to know? Open carry is legal, although it freaks out the Canadian tourists! :) Concealed carry requires a permit.

do you open carry in order to scare away the canadian banana hammock wearing tourists at Old Orchard Beach?
OOB is a hoot.

caddydaddy
10-17-08, 05:51 PM
do you open carry in order to scare away the canadian banana hammock wearing tourists at Old Orchard Beach?
OOB is a hoot.

LOL!

No, I don't open carry. It takes away the element of surprise. If a criminal sees you have a gun, you'll be their first target! That, and in todays anti-gun society, it's just too much hassle to deal with people who freak out when they see a gun and call the police!
It happened a few months ago at the Back Cove in Portland. A guy who was waiting to get his CCW permit was stopped by the police, after someone freaked when they saw his gun and called it in! He was legal to do so, but had an illegal length knife on him, so he was arrested.
I'd rather not have to deal with the police with questions about my gun.

dkozloski
10-17-08, 07:41 PM
LOL!

No, I don't open carry. It takes away the element of surprise. If a criminal sees you have a gun, you'll be their first target! That, and in todays anti-gun society, it's just too much hassle to deal with people who freak out when they see a gun and call the police!
It happened a few months ago at the Back Cove in Portland. A guy who was waiting to get his CCW permit was stopped by the police, after someone freaked when they saw his gun and called it in! He was legal to do so, but had an illegal length knife on him, so he was arrested.
I'd rather not have to deal with the police with questions about my gun.
In Alaska, the state legislature got irritated at the local police departments for foot dragging and hassling CCW applicants so they removed the requirement for permits altogether. If it's legal to own the weapon, you can carry it concealed and no permit is required. Permits are still available if you want to be able to carry in another state with a reciprocal agreement.

caddydaddy
10-17-08, 08:30 PM
For those of you who want more info on concealed carry, check out the U.S. Concealed Carry Association. They have a magazine that is really good!

93DevilleUSMC
10-18-08, 01:28 PM
Stoeger Cougar in 9mm, front passenger seat. I don't own a V, but I do carry.

hXc95SLS
10-18-08, 02:34 PM
Im to broke for a gun so I have a 8 inch gutting knife under the seat. I think that might get me in more trouble that the gun here at the jersey shore.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
10-18-08, 03:23 PM
What gets me is the advertising of it.
You really get off by telling people you have a night stick in your glove box ?!???
Thats just too fukin dumb.
I know too many people that would break into your car while your in the bar then walk into the bar and beat you with it.............only because your so stupid and immature to yap off about having it and where it is..........
Grow the fuk up !!!!!!

You dont have protect so as to brag and show off. You have protect to protect.........Anything other then that makes you a chump !!!!!!!

1) To young to go to a bar.

2) I don't "yap" about it in public. I am not that stupid. It only gets mentioned when I am with my friends.

3) As stated, no real need to protect myself in the area I live, so it is mostly for show anyway. Its great for smashing old crap you don't need anymore though. My old computer monitor didn't stand a chance.

fierodough
10-20-08, 10:26 AM
:eek::eek: Wow! I guess it's true that Americans live by the gun. :suspense:

Most people who do carry a gun, normally don't intend to use it. Once they see yours, the situation escalates out of control.

At the end of the day, a car is a car, if you get jacked, make sure you and your family are safe, call you insurance, get a new car. It's not wort taking or losing a life for.
:suspect:

Spyder
10-20-08, 11:25 AM
You're right. A car is just a car, but when someone is threatening my life or the life of someone I care about, a life is still a life and I'm willing to defend it. Two different situations, two different probable outcomes and actions.

nickc50310
10-20-08, 11:38 AM
:eek::eek: Wow! I guess it's true that Americans live by the gun. :suspense:

Most people who do carry a gun, normally don't intend to use it. Once they see yours, the situation escalates out of control.

At the end of the day, a car is a car, if you get jacked, make sure you and your family are safe, call you insurance, get a new car. It's not wort taking or losing a life for.
:suspect:


Go back to Europe and take your victim mentality with you.

In my opinion no property is worht a life being lost. However, there are LOTS of incidents where the victim is hurt or killed even though they did everything the perp asked of them.

CIWS
10-20-08, 12:36 PM
At the end of the day, a car is a car, if you get jacked, make sure you and your family are safe, call you insurance, get a new car. It's not wort taking or losing a life for.
:suspect:


That's your opinion. At what point do you want me to chance the intention of the person taking my car from me ? I'm not sure how it works where you are but here it is not uncommon for the criminal to shoot the person they are stealing / jacking the car from.

"Dallas police are investigating a deadly carjacking outside a South Dallas apartment complex Saturday evening. Police said an assailant or assailants shot Joseph Demond Dean, 27, several times and took the car he was driving about 8:15 p.m. Saturday outside an apartment complex on Holmes Street, just west of Interstate 45.
Paramedics took Mr. Dean to Baylor University Medical Center at Dallas, where he was pronounced dead. The unknown suspects fled in a Nissan Sentra that belonged to the victim's grandfather."

"Investigators are trying to find the men who carjacked and killed a 22-year-old man, KPRC Local 2 reported. Harris County sheriff's deputies said Jesus Veliz and his friend Edwin Deras gave the robbers everything they wanted. Investigators said that after the two friends gave up their wallets and SUV, the shooter told them to walk towards the train tracks. Even though they complied with the demands, several shots were fired. Investigators found Veliz's body near a bayou."

That's the reason Texas enacted the Motorist Protection Act last year allowing us to carry a concealed firearm in the vehicle. At the end of the day I'm going to take the chance on defending myself and my property from anyone who feels they need to try and take it from me without waiting to see if they're going to try and kill me after the fact.

fierodough
10-20-08, 01:48 PM
Go back to Europe and take your victim mentality with you.

:histeric:
Europe? Where did that come from? :helpless: It's people like you who give American's a bad name. I'm not like you so therefore I must be in the wrong. :alchi:

Don't tell me I have a a victim mentality when the sole purpose of you carrying a firearm is because you constantly anticipate being a victim.

If you assailant had no intention of following through on violence and you pull a gun on him, his intentions will change instantly. Then if you win, and this person is a member of a gang, you are screwed. They will keep coming after you and your family. They will know who you are because a shootout will likely make the news.

What if someone breaks into your car? Just some punk kids. Find your firearm? Then your come out of your house wondering why the alarm is going off and surprise the kid? What if your kids find the gun?

You are untitled to your rights and your opinion, your decisions will most likely never affect mine, so good luck.

PS: I'm Canadian, not European. So if you will excuse me, I need to go patch up my igloo and take my skidoo to the convenience store and buy a Beavertail.

CIWS
10-20-08, 02:12 PM
Don't tell me I have a a victim mentality when the sole purpose of you carrying a firearm is because you constantly anticipate being a victim.

Carrying is not because I anticipate being a victim, it's to hopefully prevent becoming one like in the articles I posted above.


If you assailant had no intention of following through on violence and you pull a gun on him, his intentions will change instantly.

So what do you think we should do ? Wait until we're being robbed / jacked and ask said assailant what their intentions are concerning becoming even more violent than committing a car jacking ? If I have to pull a firearm his intentions better change instantly to one of surrender or fleeing.




Then if you win, and this person is a member of a gang, you are screwed. They will keep coming after you and your family. They will know who you are because a shootout will likely make the news.

Just because someone is a gang banger doesn't mean their gang will act in retribution because one of their members decided to be out committing crimes. However it's not going to change the fact of the situation at hand if self defense becomes necessary because of a robbery / jacking. I am not going to sit there asking the perpetrator 20 questions about who or why they're doing it.



You are entitled to your rights and your opinion, your decisions will most likely never affect mine, so good luck.

:yeah:

nickc50310
10-20-08, 05:06 PM
Carrying is not because I anticipate being a victim, it's to hopefully prevent becoming one like in the articles I posted above.



So what do you think we should do ? Wait until we're being robbed / jacked and ask said assailant what their intentions are concerning becoming even more violent than committing a car jacking ? If I have to pull a firearm his intentions better change instantly to one of surrender or fleeing.





Just because someone is a gang banger doesn't mean their gang will act in retribution because one of their members decided to be out committing crimes. However it's not going to change the fact of the situation at hand if self defense becomes necessary because of a robbery / jacking. I am not going to sit there asking the perpetrator 20 questions about who or why they're doing it.




:yeah:



Couldnt have said it better myself. Thanks Matt!



To Fiero- you worry about Canada's gun policies/rights and we will just worry about ours. Capiche?

Rolex
10-20-08, 09:30 PM
:eek::eek: Wow! I guess it's true that Americans live by the gun.

No they don't. There are several people that I know personally, that the very word GUN makes them go into rigors. Owning, and especially carrying, a firearm is a tremendous responsibility. You don't want the responsibility, fine. But don't expect to limit my ownership because you're not comfortable.

When addressing a scum bag criminal you can get a whole lot further with a kind word and a gun, then with a kind word only. ;)



:histeric:

Don't tell me I have a a victim mentality when the sole purpose of you carrying a firearm is because you constantly anticipate being a victim.


I don't believe I'm anticipating anything. I live my entire life in a safe way: I own smoke detectors, but not because I'm anticipating a house fire. I own fire extinguishers too. I lock my doors at night, but not because I'm anticipating a burgular. I wear my seatbelt without exception, but not because I'm anticipating an accident. I do all these things because I want to be SAFE, not because I live with some terrible and constant burden of fear. These things are a part of my daily routine. I carry a firearm as another extension of my own personal safety. I offer that blanket of safety to my family and the friends I'm with, nobody else.

I'm under no obligation to keep a stranger safe, foil bank robberies, or interrupt a terrorist attack to save the world. No pipe dreams going on here. Just protection of me and mine.



:

If you assailant had no intention of following through on violence and you pull a gun on him, his intentions will change instantly.

Any person that threatens my life with a deadly weapon has the worst intentions in mind. NO EXCEPTIONS. I imagine there are several thousands of dead people that thought to themselves, "I bet if I just sit still, pray, don't make eye contact, and do everything this man says to do, he won't shoot me." When you choose to do nothing, you place all the power and decision making in the hands of a filthy criminal who probably has nothing to lose. If that time ever comes to me I want to have a LARGE role in the decision of whether or not I live or die.



Then if you win, and this person is a member of a gang, you are screwed. They will keep coming after you and your family. They will know who you are because a shootout will likely make the news.


Don't do anything to defend yourself out of a fear of paybacks. That's a weak mindset.




What if someone breaks into your car? Just some punk kids. Find your firearm? Then your come out of your house wondering why the alarm is going off and surprise the kid? What if your kids find the gun?


I defy any of you to EVER find a firearm stowed in my vehicle. They're either on my person or locked in my safe. That's part of being a responsible gun owner IMO. No exceptions.





PS: I'm Canadian, not European.

We still love you. ;) The final weapon is the mind....everything else is supplemental.

Spyder
10-20-08, 10:27 PM
*applause*

dkozloski
10-21-08, 01:16 PM
A friends retired father-in-law was ordered out of his new Mercedes by a car jacker. He came out of the car alright with his blade and opened the guy up from his crotch to his neck on the way. The carjacker was dead before his guts hit the street. The victim said he'd worked all his life for a nice car and wasn't about to give it away to a thug.

Rolex
10-21-08, 02:51 PM
A friends retired father-in-law was ordered out of his new Mercedes by a car jacker. He came out of the car alright with his blade and opened the guy up from his crotch to his neck on the way. The carjacker was dead before his guts hit the street. The victim said he'd worked all his life for a nice car and wasn't about to give it away to a thug.

It's a real shame that it had to come to that end for the guy, but just as well. When they get away with those kind of crimes scott free the next crime gets easier and easier. All the while they get bolder and bolder, and usually become more violent and careless. Your friend's FIL probably stopped several more crimes from happening by taking a stand against that guy. He probably prevented some future violent crimes IMO.

When crime stops paying for these people, they'll stop being criminals.

dkozloski
10-21-08, 04:03 PM
It's a real shame that it had to come to that end for the guy, but just as well. When they get away with those kind of crimes scott free the next crime gets easier and easier. All the while they get bolder and bolder, and usually become more violent and careless. Your friend's FIL probably stopped several more crimes from happening by taking a stand against that guy. He probably prevented some future violent crimes IMO.

When crime stops paying for these people, they'll stop being criminals.
The thug just picked the wrong victim. The old guy in his 70s has worked hard every day of his life and is as tough as rawhide. Nobody ever intimidated him. Some people will not let themselves be victims.

EcSTSatic
10-21-08, 04:21 PM
Theft and burglary ought to be hazardous occupations.

cvettr/cts-v
10-23-08, 03:53 PM
I hope this does not happen to me in real life but it does happen all the time to someone. If it does happen to me i"ll be glad i exercised my right to have a ccw permit. See video here http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/twkdcd595/?action=view&current=GunCONTROL.flv

Murphyg
10-23-08, 08:02 PM
That's your opinion. At what point do you want me to chance the intention of the person taking my car from me ? I'm not sure how it works where you are but here it is not uncommon for the criminal to shoot the person they are stealing / jacking the car from.

"Dallas police are investigating a deadly carjacking outside a South Dallas apartment complex Saturday evening. Police said an assailant or assailants shot Joseph Demond Dean, 27, several times and took the car he was driving about 8:15 p.m. Saturday outside an apartment complex on Holmes Street, just west of Interstate 45.
Paramedics took Mr. Dean to Baylor University Medical Center at Dallas, where he was pronounced dead. The unknown suspects fled in a Nissan Sentra that belonged to the victim's grandfather."

"Investigators are trying to find the men who carjacked and killed a 22-year-old man, KPRC Local 2 reported. Harris County sheriff's deputies said Jesus Veliz and his friend Edwin Deras gave the robbers everything they wanted. Investigators said that after the two friends gave up their wallets and SUV, the shooter told them to walk towards the train tracks. Even though they complied with the demands, several shots were fired. Investigators found Veliz's body near a bayou."

That's the reason Texas enacted the Motorist Protection Act last year allowing us to carry a concealed firearm in the vehicle. At the end of the day I'm going to take the chance on defending myself and my property from anyone who feels they need to try and take it from me without waiting to see if they're going to try and kill me after the fact.

Im assuming your talking about 2 different incidences here ?
One being with Jesus Veliz and his friend Edwin Deras......
The other incident being with Joseph Dean ...

In both of those incidences.....Unless there were witnesses.....Which I doubt.
Whos to say that the reason the victims were killed wasnt because they went for a weapon to fight back ?
I dont care what the TV says...Dead Men Dont Talk.

Is it not possible that the situations you have mention, escalated, for one reason only ? Because the victims decided to fight back ??
From those two examples you have given....I see no proof otherwise ?

HushH
10-23-08, 09:53 PM
P226R Tac on my person at all times, including when I'm in the V.

Spyder
10-23-08, 10:22 PM
Im assuming your talking about 2 different incidences here ?
One being with Jesus Veliz and his friend Edwin Deras......
The other incident being with Joseph Dean ...

In both of those incidences.....Unless there were witnesses.....Which I doubt.
Whos to say that the reason the victims were killed wasnt because they went for a weapon to fight back ?
I dont care what the TV says...Dead Men Dont Talk.

Is it not possible that the situations you have mention, escalated, for one reason only ? Because the victims decided to fight back ??
From those two examples you have given....I see no proof otherwise ?

And who's to say that the reason the victims were killed wasn't because they were following orders and the criminals wanted no witnesses. Like you say, Dead Men Don't Talk. I'm not willing to put my life in the hands of someone who is willing to assault me, pull a gun on me or threaten my life. Once you've lost any semblance of control over your life, why even bother being alive.

By your reasoning, you'd rather be shot in the back of the head after intruders did unspeakable things to your family with you watching than to get shot in the front giving them time to get away and go for help. Not me. Sorry. If I'm in that situation, I'll defend myself and my loved ones by any means available, up to and including pulling a trigger multiple times.

Murphyg
10-23-08, 11:59 PM
And who's to say that the reason the victims were killed wasn't because they were following orders and the criminals wanted no witnesses. Like you say, Dead Men Don't Talk. I'm not willing to put my life in the hands of someone who is willing to assault me, pull a gun on me or threaten my life. Once you've lost any semblance of control over your life, why even bother being alive.

By your reasoning, you'd rather be shot in the back of the head after intruders did unspeakable things to your family with you watching than to get shot in the front giving them time to get away and go for help. Not me. Sorry. If I'm in that situation, I'll defend myself and my loved ones by any means available, up to and including pulling a trigger multiple times.

"Whos To Say", as I had already stated.....Exactly the point....Whos To Say ?????
I was only bringing up the flaw as to the example/s that CIWS was "apparently" quoting from. Those examples that he was using to justify his previous statements.....to justify his justification for that matter......
They were totally flawed and totally mute. No facts as to the "actual" circumstances as to the reason for such brutal outcomes.

Nothing but hearsay and propaganda.

As is also your statement of "my reasoning".

My questioning of anothers statements has nothing whatsoever to do with my reasoning.
It does appear though, that my statements affect your personal judgment and reasoning.

Is no wonder so many are shot and or killed every day now.
I think it has something to do with what is called being "dissed" !
Except for the fact that being dissed now means that ignorant uneducated individuals that have no respect for the rest of society believe its ok to pop a cap in yo freakin head instead of really listening and tryin to understand what the rest of all the other people/human freakin beings/children/and grand chillin/ Mas and freakin Pas that we all have and respect..........................................

Thats right I Said It.....That We All Respect !!!!!!! :hide:

Dont Imply about my reasoning. My reasoning is just fine.
I dont lie to try to justify bull crap statements made in some crack ass ed thread cause I wanna be like some kinda tough assed wanna be punk.

It is what it is mother f^@k#rss......People get killed. People just plain and simply die....every freakin day......

Spyder ? Im quoting you cause i believe your talkin bout me when sayin "By your reasoning"

There are a lot of mentally deficient. Sociably retarded. Personally stunted. Gun ya and gun nay big Red Shoe Wearing Clowns every where.

But please dont try to put me into the middle of a Constitutional right that I myself still haven't decided to decide on. Its not like Ive made some kind of ridiculous statement that will follow me to my grave; ie : pry from my dead cold hands..... LMFAO..................

Till then....."Whos To Say"........LOL

Rolex
10-24-08, 12:26 AM
There are a lot of mentally deficient.

Your entire post is mentally defiecient IMHO. :hmm:

Murphyg
10-24-08, 12:45 AM
Your entire post is mentally defiecient IMHO. :hmm:

I dont see anything mentally deficient, when responding to someone whom makes statements about my reasoning, of whether or not being shot in the back of the head etc....etc.....when I never even made any sort of comment on the debate of such.

When stated "By your reasoning, "
I assumed it was directed at me . Seeing as I was quoted earlier and no one else.

I guess I would have to say..that by your reasoning.....your last post is absolutely biased and prejudicialy stunted.

dkozloski
10-24-08, 12:45 AM
Your entire post is mentally defiecient IMHO. :hmm:
Drug addled?

Murphyg
10-24-08, 12:47 AM
Drug addled?

Take me off the ignore list my friend ?

Emotionally segregated.
Guess thats what happens when you spend years believing you were the host of the Gong Show

Spyder
10-24-08, 06:16 AM
[quote=Murphyg;1666941

But please dont try to put me into the middle of a Constitutional right that I myself still haven't decided to decide on.[/quote]

So you admit its a Constiutional Right.

What's left to "decide on"?

Plain as day, isn't it?

Rolex
10-24-08, 09:09 AM
So you admit its a Constiutional Right.

What's left to "decide on"?

Plain as day, isn't it?

This was my thought but I wasn't sure at any point what language I was reading. :pwn:

CIWS
10-24-08, 09:19 AM
I was only bringing up the flaw as to the example/s that CIWS was "apparently" quoting from. Those examples that he was using to justify his previous statements.....to justify his justification for that matter......
They were totally flawed and totally mute. No facts as to the "actual" circumstances as to the reason for such brutal outcomes.

Nothing but hearsay and propaganda.

Well let's see Murphyg, I simply found two stories from within my state related to how carjackers (and other armed criminals for that matter) don't always just commit the robbery and then without provocation shoot or kill the victim because that was the specific area of crimes we were discussing. They were quoted directly from their press sources, who usually include details about elements like the victim attempting to defend themselves or fight back, either taken from witnesses or from law enforcement who investigate the crime scene. Now if these press sources who are independent of this discussion are not trying to persuade anyone by skewing the facts isn't good enough for you, well, it simply isn't. Go ahead and continue to doubt their validity. But again remember in these cases the police investigate them, and if the victims stories don't check out based on the evidence at the scene that information gets released as well and the press reports on it too.
I could take the time to post numerous other press stories of how victims are robbed and then killed for no reason except maybe to give the robber less hassle or to not leave a witness, convenience store clerks are a pretty common target, but then why. You simply choose not to believe this kind of thing happens it would appear. Despite the fact that time after time these stories do occur with witnesses and/or surveillance camera video to prove people are being killed during robberies with doing nothing but compiling with the robbers demands or just shot outright. You're just choosing to doubt what I've posted because you must feel I have some hidden agenda vs just quoting the truth. It's not hearsay or propaganda that it occurs, just your unwillingness to acknowledge it within this discussion. So who's truly exhibiting the flawed logic here Murphyg, it would seem to be you.

fierodough
10-24-08, 09:40 AM
By your reasoning, you'd rather be shot in the back of the head after intruders did unspeakable things to your family with you watching than to get shot in the front giving them time to get away and go for help. Not me. Sorry. If I'm in that situation, I'll defend myself and my loved ones by any means available, up to and including pulling a trigger multiple times.

Have you ever had a gun held up to you? i doubt that when it happens you will have the same hero mentality. Especially with you family with you. You pull a gun on someone who is robbing you and you put them on a defensive. If you get the person, great! you were lucky! If he get you, you family is now the witness to a murder and dead families tell no tales.. 99% of the time, a simple robbery is not worth killing for and most thieves know this. why do you think the person is stealing? Most of the time (Yes I know not all the time) they are doing it to survive and provide for their family. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Is it right? Heck no! But the thief wants to go home tonight and so do you and your family.

We can both argue until we are blue in the face, but if the time comes, you will be faced with a major decision and the tricks used in Hollywood do not work in real life.

fierodough
10-24-08, 09:59 AM
So you admit its a Constiutional Right.

What's left to "decide on"?

Plain as day, isn't it?

Ummm... a Constitutional right established in 1791 to allow civilians to carry muskets to help defend their freedom against invasion from the German. Then like most laws or rights, was broken down to it's most literal meaning and not it's intent and you are using your right to bear arms against each other.

So "plain as day" is a right that was to protect your country as a whole is used to peg each other off one by one.

Just like in the movies! :cool2: :helpless:

Rolex
10-24-08, 11:10 AM
Ummm... a Constitutional right established in 1791 to allow civilians to carry muskets to help defend their freedom against invasion from the German. Then like most laws or rights, was broken down to it's most literal meaning and not it's intent and you are using your right to bear arms against each other.

So "plain as day" is a right that was to protect your country as a whole is used to peg each other off one by one.

Just like in the movies! :cool2: :helpless:

What country are we talking about here?

There was a recent landmark decision by the US supreme court that upheld the idea that the second amendment guaranteed the INDIVIDUAL a right to own and bear firearms (DC vs. Heller). Arguably, the content of the second amendment regarding the well regulated militia is dated, but the individual's right is a different thing all together. The 2a was written 125 years before the national guard was formed, which is the modern day well regulated militia. The right of the individual to keep and bear arms has been ruled on by the highest court in the land. It's just as pertinent today as it was the day it was written. It is an individual right that has nothing to do with "protection of the country as a whole." As for the FFs' "intent" when the wrote the second amendment, they knew (after fighting for independence from a tyrannical and oppressive government) that the cornerstone of a country's people to prevent being "ruled" rather then governed, was their ability to own firearms and keep their own government in check.


eta: and it's a simple-minded argument to say over and over that the 2a was written only for "musket" owners. Your "muskets" were the state of the art weapon of that time period. The military used them, as did the citizens. The 2a can't be interpreted by anybody to limit the specific kind of weapon that can be privately owned. The existing laws that govern and limit the types of firearms that can be owned without a tax stamp are a separate entity from the 2a.

I don't understand why you even bother discussing the matter. As a Canadian none of our constitutional amendments are applicable to you whatsoever. Canada's gun laws are much more strict then the US's, but that doesn't guarantee your safety form violent crimes. Perhaps that's why you've come to adopt a passive mentality toward the criminal element.

MauiV
10-24-08, 11:36 AM
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Rolex
10-24-08, 11:40 AM
You pull a gun on someone who is robbing you and you put them on a defensive.

I wanted to quote you here. Pulling a gun on someone threatening your life may put that person on the defensive. In your opinion it's better to submit to these people's will. What if that criminal's intentions included raping your wife and/or child?

My wife knows I'd sooner be deader then dog shit then watch her or my daughter be hurt. I will make the fight with that criminal rather then submit. You and I will always agree to disagree on the matter. I know people who think like you. I know people who think like me, that USED TO think like you. Some of the people that made the "switch" did so after being the victim of a violent crime, and they resolved to stand up for themselves. If a man doesn't provide for his own safety then he will never really be safe.

fierodough
10-24-08, 11:41 AM
What country are we talking about here?

There was a recent landmark decision by the US supreme court that upheld the idea that the second amendment guaranteed the INDIVIDUAL a right to own and bear firearms (DC vs. Heller). Arguably, the content of the second amendment regarding the well regulated militia is dated, but the individual's right is a different thing all together. The 2a was written 125 years before the national guard was formed, which is the modern day well regulated militia. The right of the individual to keep and bear arms has been ruled on by the highest court in the land. It's just as pertinent today as it was the day it was written. It is an individual right that has nothing to do with "protection of the country as a whole." As for the FFs' "intent" when the wrote the second amendment, they knew (after fighting for independence from a tyrannical and oppressive government) that the cornerstone of a country's people to prevent being "ruled" rather then governed, was their ability to own firearms and keep their own government in check.


eta: and it's a simple-minded argument to say over and over that the 2a was written only for "musket" owners. Your "muskets" were the state of the art weapon of that time period. The military used them, as did the citizens. The 2a can't be interpreted by anybody to limit the specific kind of weapon that can be privately owned. The existing laws that govern and limit the types of firearms that can be owned without a tax stamp are a separate entity from the 2a.

My point exactly! You take a right, slap your interpretation on it and exploit it! This right was given to protect your freedom! Today it's being used to uphold your interpretation if the law.

Rolex
10-24-08, 11:42 AM
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

:D A modern day classic!

V8lT1o0sDwI

fierodough
10-24-08, 11:43 AM
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


I think they were Japanese...

Rolex
10-24-08, 11:44 AM
My point exactly! You take a right, slap your interpretation on it and exploit it! This right was given to protect your freedom! Today it's being used to uphold your interpretation if the law.

You're talking nonsense. Please explain how I am exploiting the 2a?!?

fierodough
10-24-08, 11:58 AM
I wanted to quote you here. Pulling a gun on someone threatening your life may put that person on the defensive. In your opinion it's better to submit to these people's will. What if that criminal's intentions included raping your wife and/or child?

My wife knows I'd sooner be deader then dog shit then watch her or my daughter be hurt. I will make the fight with that criminal rather then submit. You and I will always agree to disagree on the matter. I know people who think like you. I know people who think like me, that USED TO think like you. Some of the people that made the "switch" did so after being the victim of a violent crime, and they resolved to stand up for themselves. If a man doesn't provide for his own safety then he will never really be safe.

Wow.. you guys are really out of control if a single individual will pull a gun on you with the sole intent to rape your wife and your child in front of you. Can you name me a case where this took place in your state? Can you also sugar coat that with a quote that stated "if this man had a gun, this could all of been avoided". I'm sorry, but if someone attacks you for the sole purpose to cause you and your family harm, it's retaliation. Perhaps you shot his brother or child??

fierodough
10-24-08, 12:07 PM
You're talking nonsense. Please explain how I am exploiting the 2a?!?

Very simple, in today's society, the law should read "shoot first, ask questions later"

Are you trained to diffuse a hostile situation? Do you have the ability (certified) to make the decision as to when lethal force is required? If you do not have that training (and in my opinion, only law enforcement should) then you should never even consider pointing a firearm to another human being.

Try non lethal force for a change. taiser, mace, whatever. Get the perp. arrested, let them serve their time.

Rolex
10-24-08, 12:07 PM
Wow.. you guys are really out of control if a single individual will pull a gun on you with the sole intent to rape your wife and your child infront of you. Can you name me a case where this took place in your state? Can you also sugar coat that with a quote that stated "if this man had a gun, this could all of been avoided". I'm sorry, but if someone attacks you for the sole pupose to cause you and your family harm, it's retaliation. Perhaps you shot his brother or child??

I give up on you. I won't tolerate you insulting me either.

And FYI I can throw a couple examples (within driving distance of my home) of criminals brutalizing a man's wife while they made him watch. One was in Kansas City and the other in Pine Bluff, AR. You will only call BS on me unless you're a damn eye witness, so I won't bother with specifics.

I train regularly (4-5 times a year) at APT Academy in Missouri. The instructors there have spent years in law enforcement, many of them on swat teams. As part of their curricula they've complied dozens of examples brutal and violent crimes (some with pictures and video) to supplement the diet of their students who sign up for their classes. So bad shit happens to good people. I've seen it.

I'm sure in Canada all the criminals are gentlemen though.




Very simple, in today's society, the law should read "shoot first, ask questions later"


You're just wrong here. Too much liability involved with a shooting. Every course I've ever taken stressed safety first, situational diffusion, and situational awareness to avoid the bad men all together. When none of that works, training takes over.




Are you trained to diffuse a hostile situation? Do you have the ability (certified) to make the decision as to when lethal force is required? If you do not have that training (and in my opinion, only law enforcement should) then you should never even consider pointing a firearm to another human being.


I've obviously had more training then anyone you've ever met. Arguably, I've had more training then some LEOs get before they are on the job. I see that as part of my personal responsibility because I carry a firearm. None of that makes me a certified midget ninja so it's probably not good enough for you.




Try non lethal force for a change. taiser, mace, whatever. Get the perp. arrested, let them serve their time.

When someone threatens you with deadly force you aren't obligated to use less then lethal force to try to stop them. I figured since you were so darn smart you'd know that. Police don't use mace and tazers when someone points a gun at them....for a GOOD reason. They don't want to die.


I respectfully disagree with you on everything you say. I hope your position on providing for the safety of you and yours always pays off.

fierodough
10-24-08, 12:15 PM
Canada's gun laws are much more strict then the US's, but that doesn't guarantee your safety form violent crimes. Perhaps that's why you've come to adopt a passive mentality toward the criminal element.

Guarantee my safety from violent crimes? no you are right there. Making them unlikely? Now that's more like it!

I will enjoy my day to day activities, taking my kids to the park, strolls in the nigh with my wife etc. without constantly having to look over my shoulder in paranoia.

I agree with you, Canada's mentality is much different. But so far, it's been working in our favor.

dkozloski
10-24-08, 01:22 PM
To understand the thinking of Canadians you must go back to colonial times. Canadians of the times were the Tories and loyalists who were either driven from the colonies or decided to side with the King of England and had no desire for freedom and independence. Knuckling under to a tyrant and being ordered around from cradle to grave was good enough for them, hence a nation of sheep depending on a strong central government to supply their every need including personal protection. It's a difference in basic philosophy between independent and freedom seeking people and those that depend on "big brother" to wipe their nose and their ass for them, hopefully with a different tissue. They were happy with the way things had been done for centuries in Europe and we had the vision to create a whole new type of government of the people, by the people, and for the people. We have thrived and prospered. They are still trying to find themselves.

fierodough
10-24-08, 02:43 PM
To understand the thinking of Canadians you must go back to colonial times. Canadians of the times were the Tories and loyalists who were either driven from the colonies or decided to side with the King of England and had no desire for freedom and independence. Knuckling under to a tyrant and being ordered around from cradle to grave was good enough for them, hence a nation of sheep depending on a strong central government to supply their every need including personal protection. It's a difference in basic philosophy between independent and freedom seeking people and those that depend on "big brother" to wipe their nose and their ass for them, hopefully with a different tissue. They were happy with the way things had been done for centuries in Europe and we had the vision to create a whole new type of government of the people, by the people, and for the people. We have thrived and prospered. They are still trying to find themselves.


Wow... Passive Colonials. :hmm: Didn't the US try to invade us on a few occasions? Remember what we did to teach you a lesson? :owned2::flame:

We are not aggressive, but do not confuse this with passive.

Food for thought: The longest range recorded for a sniper kill currently stands at 2,430 meters (2,657 yd, or 1.51 miles), accomplished by Corporal Rob Furlong, a sniper from Newfoundland, Canada, in March 2002 during the war in Afghanistan. Corporal Rob Furlong made this record-breaking kill while he was participating in Operation Anaconda. He was serving with Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry (PPCLI) at the time. To make the kill, he used a .50 caliber BMG (12.7 mm) McMillan TAC-50 bolt-action rifle.

Just because we choose to not carry them on our person does not mean we do not know how to use them. How quick you forget that in all major conflicts we always had your six.

dkozloski
10-24-08, 03:36 PM
Wow... Passive Colonials. :hmm: Didn't the US try to invade us on a few occasions? Remember what we did to teach you a lesson? :owned2::flame:

We are not aggressive, but do not confuse this with passive.

Food for thought: The longest range recorded for a sniper kill currently stands at 2,430 meters (2,657 yd, or 1.51 miles), accomplished by Corporal Rob Furlong, a sniper from Newfoundland, Canada, in March 2002 during the war in Afghanistan. Corporal Rob Furlong made this record-breaking kill while he was participating in Operation Anaconda. He was serving with Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry (PPCLI) at the time. To make the kill, he used a .50 caliber BMG (12.7 mm) McMillan TAC-50 bolt-action rifle.

Just because we choose to not carry them on our person does not mean we do not know how to use them. How quick you forget that in all major conflicts we always had your six.
Had our six alright. Way back! Way back in the rear with the gear holding our coat for us. LOL
Personally, I've always liked Canadians; in the western provinces anyway. Very up front and honest people. Some have the foulest mouths on earth and fixated on the sex act.

fierodough
10-24-08, 04:04 PM
Had our six alright. Way back! Way back in the rear with the gear holding our coat for us. LOL

What about D-Day in 1946? and Canada was not drafting it's civilians. These people volunteered to die for you and for me. :annoyed:

Keep in mind that we have no where near the population for the USA. NYC alone has a higher population then Canada. Now who is sending more troops per capita?

I can't understand why people think that if we are not out to pick a fight that were are passive and rely on the all mighty USA to survive.
:confused:

dkozloski
10-24-08, 04:19 PM
What about D-Day in 1946? and Canada was not drafting it's civilians. These people volunteered to die for you and for me. :annoyed:

Keep in mind that we have no where near the population for the USA. NYC alone has a higher population then Canada. Now who is sending more troops per capita?

I can't understand why people think that if we are not out to pick a fight that were are passive and rely on the all mighty USA to survive.
:confused:
Our D-Day in Normandy was in June of 1944. I didn't realize that Canada didn't show up until two years later, although I can't say I'm surprised. LOL All kidding aside, Canada has always been a good ally and we've been happy to have them on our side.

Rolex
10-24-08, 05:15 PM
I can't understand why people think that if we are not out to pick a fight that were are passive and rely on the all mighty USA to survive.
:confused:

Nor can I understand why you believe all Americans are out to pick a fight, especially those that choose to legally arm themselves. I'll put up with people's BS to the point of humility when I'm carrying. I don't imagine you'll believe that but it's true.


eta: where I disagree with you the most is from your original statement: most criminals that carry a gun have no real intention of actually using it. IMO that's assuming way too much.

Spyder
10-24-08, 05:40 PM
Have you ever had a gun held up to you? i doubt that when it happens you will have the same hero mentality. Especially with you family with you. You pull a gun on someone who is robbing you and you put them on a defensive. If you get the person, great! you were lucky! If he get you, you family is now the witness to a murder and dead families tell no tales.. 99% of the time, a simple robbery is not worth killing for and most thieves know this. why do you think the person is stealing? Most of the time (Yes I know not all the time) they are doing it to survive and provide for their family. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Is it right? Heck no! But the thief wants to go home tonight and so do you and your family.

We can both argue until we are blue in the face, but if the time comes, you will be faced with a major decision and the tricks used in Hollywood do not work in real life.

Yes. I have. I have been on both sides of a loaded and ready firearm. Not a fun time for either side, ever.

Hero mentality doesn't come into play when you fear for the life of the people you love. If anything, it goes down to pure survival instinct backed by whatever training you hopefully have.

"Getting the person," as you so heroically put it, is not the way I've ever looked at it. Surviving is.

99% of the time a robbery is not worth killing over. I'd say its a far higher percentage than that. One in a thousand? One in ten thousand? What about the other one time? That is enough for me to know that I will forever want to be able to take care of myself and my loved ones.

I'll admit this is a generalized statement, but thieves don't steal to feed their families. If they were stealing food, I could believe that. When they're stealing jewelry, cash, electronics, firearms or anything else they can sell or keep, it is not to feed a family. They steal for the thrill of it, for personal gain, to trade it for goods which they want (likely drugs). They rape for the thrill of it. They murder for the thrill of it. What if the person assaulting you or your wife or girlfriend or children isn't after possessions, but after power-rape or lust-rape or power-murder or some other nefarious act? What do you do then? Would you say "oh, here, take my watch and leave my wife alone." Yea, say that and watch the criminal pistol whip you and rape your wife. Or shoot him and save both of your lives. It's not about theft or protecting ones possessions. It's about survival and responsibility. Not providing myself with the ability to protect my family in a crisis would be no different than not feeding my children or sending them to school. It is irresponsible to starve your kids and it is irresponsible to potentially throw their safety to the wind and put their lives in the hands of people who care less about whether your child is going to grow up and live a happy successful life than where they're going to get their next power trip from, be it theft, rape or murder.

MauiV
10-24-08, 07:34 PM
I think they were Japanese...

And you just proved you lack a thread of common sense.

CIWS
10-24-08, 07:38 PM
Keep in mind that we have no where near the population for the USA. NYC alone has a higher population then Canada. Now who is sending more troops per capita?

I'm not intending to use your words against you but think about this statement for a minute. We are literally in a much different situation than yourselves with much higher population and crime concentrations in our major cities and suburbs than your country. I know in the smaller cities in the more rural areas of Texas our citizens still live in situations where they don't even lock their homes and can go to the local wal-mart and leave their keys in the car and unlocked. Where I live, that's simply insane and stupid to consider.

fierodough
10-24-08, 08:16 PM
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?



I think they were Japanese...



And you just proved you lack a thread of common sense.

Hopefully you were not using National Lampoon's Animal House as a historical reference. :cookoo:

HushH
10-24-08, 09:44 PM
...I'm sorry, but if someone attacks you for the sole purpose to cause you and your family harm, it's retaliation. Perhaps you shot his brother or child??

Did you actually type that with a straight face?!?

dkozloski
10-24-08, 10:06 PM
Somebody needs to do a little research on Charley Starkweather and Caril Ann Fugate. They might also read "In Cold Blood".

93DevilleUSMC
10-24-08, 11:51 PM
Did you actually type that with a straight face?!?

The did, in fact, type that with a straight face. People like him and MurphyG don't like the idea of normal people carrying firearms because they don't like their victims to be armed.

I would love to see either of the above take a stroll through Al-Anbar Province as unarmed point men for rifle platoons.

Rolex
10-25-08, 10:34 AM
Did you actually type that with a straight face?!?

He did indeed. I know the type. There's no changing his mind about firearms. He will argue (until he's blue in the face) that he's perfectly capable of defending his home with a golf club or a baseball bat, no matter what. You can't even argue that if a person like him were actually subjected to a violent crime it might change him. It would only push him further into the "guns are bad" mindset. After all, it's guns that are to blame for all the crime we have nowdays. :rolleyes:

We're all different people with our own opinions. Some people are content on depending on everybody else to take care of the dirty work, while others will just roll up their sleeves and take care of their own. Different strokes for different folks. That's what makes the world go around.

93DevilleUSMC
10-25-08, 01:30 PM
We're all different people with our own opinions. Some people are content on depending on everybody else to take care of the dirty work, while others will just roll up their sleeves and take care of their own. Different strokes for different folks. That's what makes the world go around.


People who won't do their own dirty work to protect themselves have no reasonable expectation of being defended.

Murphyg
10-26-08, 04:21 AM
So you admit its a Constitutional Right.

What's left to "decide on"?

Plain as day, isn't it?

When did I/or when was it ever implied of anything by myself or others as to the debate over the constitutional rights to carry firearms ?
Whom was it that said I was deciding on anything.

I cant believe the bunch of stunted freaks that drive Cadillacs.:ride:

Please dont try to fog the matter by blatant miss-reading between the lines.
Thats nothing more than an old hag chattin on the phone with nothing else to do........

"Hold Please......How May I Connect Your Call......." Freakin women just want to start chatter.......

Hold Please While I Connect You To A Bunch Of Idiots..............:bunchies:

Murphyg
10-26-08, 04:40 AM
Had our six alright. Way back! Way back in the rear with the gear holding our coat for us. LOL
Personally, I've always liked Canadians; in the western provinces anyway. Very up front and honest people. Some have the foulest mouths on earth and fixated on the sex act.

Is not surprising to here something like that from a retired G-Man...................
Or Should i say still thinkin on the books A Secret Agent Man LOL.....

So what is it....Canada didnt/doesnt have your six, but up that far North ward your good for you sex ?????

I mean the way back way back in the "rear" that you appear to like to insinuate.
Is that why your so far up so far up and away from reality ??

Is it better to be that far up and to the west with the dirty fixations and foul talk......
Did the government just throw you away and try to hide you there thinkin they wouldnt here from you again ???

Please tell us Mr Secret Agent Man.........
What is it that you know....What is it that you have done...Why is it that you tempt and prompt us Canadians..........

Why Is it that you are so angry with anyone that is actually real and less than a name on your monitor ? LMFAO

Murphyg
10-26-08, 04:49 AM
This was my thought but I wasn't sure at any point what language I was reading. :pwn:

The language you and what we all were reading was......DooooH.......
What peace keeper does your V carry?

It was actually quite simple. It was actually simple until idiots go involved in it.........LMFAO Way Way Way Too Many With Way Way Way Too Much Time On There Hands.

What really scares me though is..........alot of them have freakin peace keepers in there Vs.....

Murphyg
10-26-08, 05:34 AM
I give up on you. I won't tolerate you insulting me either.

And FYI I can throw a couple examples (within driving distance of my home) of criminals brutalizing a man's wife while they made him watch. One was in Kansas City and the other in Pine Bluff, AR. You will only call BS on me unless you're a damn eye witness, so I won't bother with specifics...................
'........................
..............

...................................0

I am Sorry But I have To Ask ??????

The situations that you have mentioned..
Where they committed in the victims homes ?/ or in there vehicles ???
Remember the Thread Header. Peace Keeper In Your V ...

Either way............Did the assaulted victims mentioned have any sort of protection ; and or arms for that matter ?
A screw driver they could get to, A baseball bat, A finger nail file , Or even a kitchen knife............Or hows about fingernails to scratch eyes out ???

Again another scenario of brutalized victims has been given.
But again I have to ask.....Were those victims armed ???
Does the media ever say that so and so were brutalized within there home "even though they had a fire arm in the night table drawer"....?

You are assuming that crimes are being committed and individuals are being victimized while un-armed and or un-protected.

Examples are being given without the full facts. Without a doubt having protection is a deterrent....if you always sleep with one eye open and are totally stressed 24/7.
But that still does not assure never being victimized.

Shyte happens and there is no deterrent either way.
No one can post anything that the media has said as a justification. For all any of us know, There could have been a fully loaded 45 magnum in those victims night tables ?
So Please dont attempt to humor us all with the presumptions of anything other wise.

Rolex
10-26-08, 09:24 AM
0

I am Sorry But I have To Ask ??????

The situations that you have mentioned..
Where they committed in the victims homes ?/ or in there vehicles ???
Remember the Thread Header. Peace Keeper In Your V ...


The POINT I was challenged on was whether or not I could name a single example of a man having to watch while his wife be assaulted by an armed person. The original question deviated from the OP's topic, but my answer was directed toward the question. To me I was being accused of being paranoid about the idea, without provocation. Without having to dig or research, I could name 2 examples off the top of my head. So in fact I'm not paranoid. As I said earlier, I don't live with a constant burden of fear.




Examples are being given without the full facts. Without a doubt having
.....There could have been a fully loaded 45 magnum in those victims night tables ?......
So Please dont attempt to humor us all with the presumptions of anything other wise.

I didn't bother with the dirty details because of the person I was addressing, and I wasn't asked about the details. Since you've asked I can tell you more about the KC example: (both examples happened in public, NOT in the home)

(short version) A very wealthy couple attended a charity dinner for an inner city fund raiser, in the "not great" part of town. IIRC the man was a physician in KC. The man and his wife parked their car right in front of the place they were eating. When they entered it was still daylight. After the dinner they exited the building, now under dark skies, and were approached at their car. They were unarmed, being met by an armed man. They had NO hope to fight back and were at the mercy of this dirtbag.

The armed dirtbag forced them into an alley and cracked the man over the head a few times with his firearm. After the beat down he restrained the man and the woman. He forced the man to watch as he raped and sodomized his wife. Every time the man turned to look away the dirtbag cracked his wife over the head with his firearm. The wife ended up with a skull fracture as a result of her beating.

When the dirtbag was finished with his assault he left and was never caught. The husband and wife managed to get loose from their restraints and found their way into an emergency room. They both lived, but at what cost? The wife depended on her husband to protect her and he failed. The man and woman will always have to live with the tragedy and what might have happened if they'd been able to protect themselves.

Both the man and woman have attended self defense classes and tactical firearms training classes at the school I've trained at many times. They suffered a great deal of physical and psychological trauma form the assault. They refuse to be a victim again though, and they now take personal responsibility for their own safety.



The second example from Pine Bluff I know less detail about. I do know the people were unarmed, traveling, and staying in a hotel for the night. Their room was broken into by 3 men. The man was overwhelmed and unable to fight off the 3 men. He was severely beaten, and forced to watch while the men took turns raping his wife. This is another situation that would have had a very different outcome if the victims had been armed. The many are unable to prey on the few when firearms level the playing field. But again, these people had ZERO chance of protecting themselves.


Some people may believe they would rather bow their heads and live through an attack like this. NOT ME. My wife depends on me to defend her and my daughter. I would make a fight and wouldn't stop fighting until I was dead before I would watch some scumbag assault my wife. You'd have to kill me for damn sure before I'd watch you hurt my daughter.

Your mileage may vary.

dkozloski
10-26-08, 02:04 PM
Erratic people like Murphyg are the best reason I can imagine for going armed at all times. There's no telling what the hell will pop into his head. He's proven that to the Canadian authorities in the past. Thankfully he isn't allowed to cross the border. He's still Canada's problem.

MauiV
10-26-08, 04:10 PM
Erratic people like Murphyg are the best reason I can imagine for going armed at all times. There's no telling what the hell will pop into his head. He's proven that to the Canadian authorities in the past. Thankfully he isn't allowed to cross the border. He's still Canada's problem.


:owned:

Rolex
10-26-08, 06:16 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/rolex/hurrithread9ls0au.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/rolex/avatar12893_110.gif