: Wheel Hop, How much would you pay?



Clintonwmills
06-18-04, 03:00 PM
Okay I am at the point to where I will do anything to fix the wheel hop problem! I just want a solid solution, no big packages, no half way, just 100% fixed. Now correct if I am wrong, but is that solutions available?

I want to know what you guys think. What is the most you will pay for a solid solution? Okay the poll includes all parts and install.

CTSV OWNER
06-18-04, 05:46 PM
While I do find it annoying I don't encounter it often enough to pay a fair amount of money to have it fixed. I would appreciate if GM did it's homework and helped with the solution.

I'd go up to $350 max

wildwhl
06-18-04, 06:57 PM
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.

I'd be somewhat willing to pay say, 2 hours or less shop labor to install free parts - so call it <$150.

If enough pressure mounts among the forum members, current/future owners, magazine reviews, real world disappointing results, etc., a fix will surely follow through the dealers. If the proper steps are taken for Cadillac to back up the performance claims, this will REQUIRE them to make amends, or at least admit the inaccurate claims in advertising.

I agree that this may or may not happen. I'm hoping it does. I'm doing what I can on my end but really haven't posted here since I don't have anything solid to report as of yet. Wheel hop will end up being costly in the repair department as more and more rearend parts fail, presumably under warranty. They can't show that you were attempting to break things - but of course shredded rubber in the wheel well will show the driving habits.

This being said, anyone with driving habits consistent to smoking the tires would be driving just how the vehicle has been advertised by Cadillac - watch the videos on their website.

I do have a little precedent/background to go with, but I'm not sure how I will use it to help yet. My younger brother, in his less intelligent period of his life a few years back, stripped out both the front and rear differentials in his Toyota T100 pickup. He did it by attempting to climb a log deck behind a lumber mill about 50 feet high. He made it - but did said damage along the way. Toyota denied his warranty claim. He promptly made a videotape of their then running commercial, you may remember it, where a T100 is shown climbing a log deck with a triumphant driver standing atop at the end of the commercial. He didn't even need an attorney at that point. The local Toyota dealer watched the video, knew a case could be made if necessary, and opted for the quickest/least expenisve method out. Repairs were made within 48 hours of viewing the tape. This is exactly why I've downloaded/recorded all available GM advertising with the CtsV smokin' the tires. Can't deny the rear diff/axle/suspension/halfshafts or whatever else might be in there to grenade simply because I attempted to "...launch as shown on the website in my desire to achieve the claimed 0-60 performance times as the little POS SRT-4 pulled away..."

I'm not saying sue, just saying that I bet a fix will come along by way of corporate and will be made available to current owners at a very reasonable price, if not for free.

If not, well, that's OK. The car is awesome. Took one of my Bimmer friends to lunch today. Let him drive. He's ready to go find one. In his words "Mr. 540I meet Mr. used car marketplace. Mr. ********* meet your next car - let's stop by the Caddy dealer on the way back to the office."

Flame suit on as always (besides, they're removing asbestos out of a 21,000 square foot building across the street today - none of you could do me any worse than I've already experienced during their "asbestos reclamation procedure").

GNSCOTT
06-18-04, 07:34 PM
I wouldn't pay a penny if it upsets the factory suspension set up or ride quality. I'm sure you could eliminate it with coil overs and harder bushings and have it ride like a Camaro.

Vedder
06-18-04, 08:44 PM
Are there any attorneys on here that believe there is a case? General Motors claims 0-60 4.6, HOW? :hmm: IT MUST BE LAUNCHED to achieve this. Great car but MISREPRESENTATION. I believe something should be organized here. A fix at minimum should be in order.

:rant2: GENERAL MOTORS listen up, it may only cost tens of of thousands to fix, or less I don't know and I DON"T CARE. But it should be fixed ! PERIOD! At least for those who want it fixed. IF NOT, I gaurantee it will cost you hundreds of thousands, if not millions in the future. Why? Because the people buying this car are usually people with knowledge of cars. We are the people that others listen to. We read the magazines and spread that information at work and amongst friends and family. We are the ones you need to depend on while trying to convert the future business from the M's and the AMG's to your V's and future performance models. You can't tell me that this won't hurt future General Motors Performance Division sales POTENTIAL. :tisk:
We know who's responsible and thats you GENERAL MOTORS so called "performance division".
0-60 in 4.6 seconds! ya right!!:hide:

rabid
06-18-04, 09:44 PM
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
...
I agree.

Cal
06-19-04, 12:17 AM
Have to wonder if they got those #s with the FG2 on the car, since they obviously put it on prior to laying the patch in the promo video (or had it on a traction pad or something).

I can't do that, but I am an awful straight line driver.

Shrug, just a thought. As miscreant said the FG2 eliminates 80% of wheel hop, though I would put the # a little higher.

As far as paying, I am one of the 2 who selected 1k, so you can tell I am a complete tool.

As far as the 4.6sec. I don't think they made it up (GM lawyers would never have let it out the door), I think they had solid test results and could show you #s with the techs repeating those times, the question would be was the car STOCK, AS SOLD, or was it modified (seems dumb, but you never know.)

StealthV
06-19-04, 12:22 AM
Car magazines test early V's...wheel hop....then late in '04 production run, FG2 package is released. Coincidence?

If Cadillac does something like putting FG2 on everyone's car, I'd like my money back for the FG2 pacakge I ordered with the car. My number one reason for spending the money was to reduce wheel hop. :rant2:

Cal
06-19-04, 09:56 AM
Nah they won't put it on everyone's cars, it's a $1200 upgrade that they make a nice penny on.

I don't know how Cadillac is (or isn't) going to address this, but I'll say what I've said a bunch of times already. Go to the M5 board, those cars had wheel hop at one point, so do a few others like the GTO - or so I have heard from a few people who drove em. Meaning BMW did address it at some point, and fix it. I strongly suspect Caddy will do the same. As for people who bought before the fix, I strongly suspect we will be assed out.

It's not a new phenomena but I agree we are within our rights to expect a car that doesn't do that, and performs up to the numbers promised or at LEAST pretty close to them.

CTSV OWNER
06-19-04, 05:28 PM
The real crime is the GM advertised 0-60 of 4.6 seconds. False advertiseing in box stock out of the factory form.

wildwhl
06-19-04, 06:19 PM
The real crime is the GM advertised 0-60 of 4.6 seconds. False advertiseing in box stock out of the factory form.

True, this is the real crime. I'm doubtful I'll ever see a 4.6 0-60 from my V - supercharged or not. I really don't want to harm the ride, but I really do want the wheel hop to be fixed.

miscreant
06-19-04, 06:26 PM
The real crime is the GM advertised 0-60 of 4.6 seconds. False advertiseing in box stock out of the factory form.I'm not defending GM, I usually try to take the middle road, but even as a consumer, I'm taken back by the expectation that you will obtain factory numbers! Perhaps I'm numb to it by now, but can anyone name a car (other than say outrageously fast ones like 996s and vipers) that ever can match factory claims? I remember buying a Talon TSI AWD back in 1990 because mitsubishi claimed 0-60 in 6 seconds, but the best any mag could do was 6.7 seconds...The magazines typically claim an average, where the manufacturers are going to claim the best time ever acheived even if they can't readily obtain it.

I AGREE that the V shouldn't have the wheel-hop problem, but I think that GM released the FG2 package for people who want the "track" performance from their V. They won't come right out the say it, but it was probably spurred from the wheel hop problem. But I again do not believe the V was designed to be a drag car, 4.6s advertised or not. Probably what happened was GM tried to compromise and discovered that many people simply wanted to lay down black period, so they released the FG2 if you wanted that kind of performance while sacrificing the ride.

Now if someone really does come out with a mod that indeed fixes the wheel hop without doing anything to the shocks or sacrificing the handling of the vehicle, than I think you all have a case for that fix to be factory supplied. But I STILL stand by my opinion that the resultant wheel hop is caused by the designed handling characteristics of the CTS-V that makes it ride so nice on the highway, but yet handle so well on the twisties.

Clintonwmills
06-20-04, 01:31 AM
I really believe if the wheel hop problem is an easy fix, maintaining ride quality, etc, they would have fixed it from the beginning. I believe it must be something more complicated. I wish they would just let us all know what the problem is?

GNSCOTT
06-20-04, 12:17 PM
It can be fixed with stiffer bushings and the shock package, but like I said, it will ride like a vette. MAybe riding like a camaro is a little strong.:)

Silver Baron
06-20-04, 03:31 PM
How about we write to some of the magazines like Road&tTrack, Car& Driver etc.. to publish as reader letters? :crying:

0-60
400 HP
Wheel hop

any other issue?

StealthV
06-20-04, 03:35 PM
No one has matched the 13.1 sec 1/4 mile yet either...

Cal
06-20-04, 03:44 PM
Hey I got 13.2 on the GTech! Heheh.

After FINALLY getting a good launch to hit that 13.2 (was about a 16th of a second of spinning tires then pure grip all the way through) estimated, I think it can be done with FG2 and a good driver (and some non-runflats) and the $249 cold air box. 13.1 can probably be hit without the CAK but since my car has one, I can't speak to what I could be doing bone stock.

I bite the big one in terms of 1/4 mi. skill but the GTech is helping me improve for sure. So, as I said. Throw FG2 CAK and some new tires, get a good run, and I think 13.1 or BETTER is easily attainable.
Just my haypenny.

DgtalPimp
01-20-05, 01:38 PM
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.


:yeah:

homer403
01-20-05, 02:26 PM
I think we need to produce a form letter, let everyone print it out and sign it and all send it to Cadillac. And then cc a copy to every magazine... that will get their attention when all the magazines get our letters complaining about the same problem.... betch we'll all hear from Cadillac?

DgtalPimp
01-20-05, 02:32 PM
I think we need to produce a form letter, let everyone print it out and sign it and all send it to Cadillac. And then cc a copy to every magazine... that will get their attention when all the magazines get our letters complaining about the same problem.... betch we'll all hear from Cadillac?

Killer Idea!

Can you take the first swing at developing the letter? You can post a thread that is the letter and we can all chip in our two cents? With us all working on this letter we should be able to stark a response from Cadillac other than "What wheel hop"?

StealthV
01-20-05, 02:32 PM
Wow this thread is old.

DgtalPimp
01-20-05, 02:34 PM
I blew the dust off the thread and brought it out. :)

ylwjacket
01-20-05, 03:17 PM
I'm taken back by the expectation that you will obtain factory numbers!

Don't know about any other cars, because anything I've owned previously with performance capability was a BMW. People on the boards for the BMWs I owned, I believe, routinely bested factory numbers. It was my impression that BMW added a few tenths, just to be safe.

I think the bottom line is, that Cadillac is cross-selling this car with a 545. I bought it over a 545, in part to show Cadillac that people like me would do it, if they offered a decent alternative.

That said, if the 545 is your competition, you better hang with them.

As for me, I will wait to see what heppens. All in all, I'm impressed with the car. However, when the new M5 comes out, I would like to take a look at that. For that reason, I am interested to learn what Cadillac intends to do with our engine. I want the to keep up.

Kels55
01-20-05, 03:37 PM
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.
I believe we shouldn't HAVE to pay anything.


I agree, but if it means a 100% fix and Cadillac won't fork the bill, I would be willing to pay up to $2K just to make it stop.

Kels55
01-20-05, 03:43 PM
Hey I got 13.2 on the GTech! Heheh.

After FINALLY getting a good launch to hit that 13.2 (was about a 16th of a second of spinning tires then pure grip all the way through) estimated, I think it can be done with FG2 and a good driver (and some non-runflats) and the $249 cold air box. 13.1 can probably be hit without the CAK but since my car has one, I can't speak to what I could be doing bone stock.

I bite the big one in terms of 1/4 mi. skill but the GTech is helping me improve for sure. So, as I said. Throw FG2 CAK and some new tires, get a good run, and I think 13.1 or BETTER is easily attainable.
Just my haypenny.

I have a 13.055 at 113 on my G-Tech Competition Pro. I did it during an officail run at the drag strip. The Drag Strip time sheet had me at 13.705 at 109, so don't think that your 13.2 was actually that close to the 13.1 as advertised.

RobzBLKV
01-20-05, 03:44 PM
Can't answer the poll as it was written, unless you assume the fix would fix the wheel hop and do nothing else. For example, if it is a suspension upgrade that fixes the wheel hop and at the same time saves weight and improves handling, I might be willing to fork out a few bucks. Just to fix a design problem? I think I will keep bouncing for now.

NIK
01-20-05, 05:15 PM
Are there any attorneys on here that believe there is a case? General Motors claims 0-60 4.6, HOW? :hmm: IT MUST BE LAUNCHED to achieve this. Great car but MISREPRESENTATION. I believe something should be organized here. A fix at minimum should be in order.

:rant2: GENERAL MOTORS listen up, it may only cost tens of of thousands to fix, or less I don't know and I DON"T CARE. But it should be fixed ! PERIOD! At least for those who want it fixed. IF NOT, I gaurantee it will cost you hundreds of thousands, if not millions in the future. Why? Because the people buying this car are usually people with knowledge of cars. We are the people that others listen to. We read the magazines and spread that information at work and amongst friends and family. We are the ones you need to depend on while trying to convert the future business from the M's and the AMG's to your V's and future performance models. You can't tell me that this won't hurt future General Motors Performance Division sales POTENTIAL. :tisk:
We know who's responsible and thats you GENERAL MOTORS so called "performance division".
0-60 in 4.6 seconds! ya right!!:hide:


Motor Trend (February, 2005) has 0-60 in 4.7 seconds - getting close!! (By the way, this is quicker than the 2005 GTO or Chrysler 425 HP 300C according to the article.)

M5eatr
01-20-05, 05:47 PM
So, did anyone come up with a formal letter to send GM yet?

homer403
01-20-05, 06:04 PM
I have posted the draft letter, please look for it and comment!:drinker

Rob Ketcham
01-20-05, 06:54 PM
Just another opinion. Perhaps the wheel hoppers should save their money and go to launching school. Then the blame would rest whereever it should rest.
There was earlier commentary about the Camero and the Vette. My LS1 Camero SS rode very well, and it only hopped once when I was cleaning up a Mustang Cobra. I've owned sleepers since I was a 16 year old kid, and if you don't know how to launch....you might be embarassed.
As I see it it is all about traction and getting the power to the road. It reminds me of drivers who are just clueless about how to drive when there is a healthy snow or sleet, freezing rain, or black ice, or just when it starts to rain after a dry spell.
I am still waiting for the first time my V hops and its clocking 19000 hard miles including a number of sweet "kills" along the way. Can I say that so far all my launches have been hopless? But if you have been to launching school and have the dynamics and your reflexs and reactions down pat, and you are still a bona vide hopper, then you have a beef with Cadillac and it should be taken care of without charge.

RobzBLKV
01-20-05, 10:01 PM
Just another opinion. Perhaps the wheel hoppers should save their money and go to launching school. Then the blame would rest whereever it should rest.
There was earlier commentary about the Camero and the Vette. My LS1 Camero SS rode very well, and it only hopped once when I was cleaning up a Mustang Cobra. I've owned sleepers since I was a 16 year old kid, and if you don't know how to launch....you might be embarassed.
As I see it it is all about traction and getting the power to the road. It reminds me of drivers who are just clueless about how to drive when there is a healthy snow or sleet, freezing rain, or black ice, or just when it starts to rain after a dry spell.
I am still waiting for the first time my V hops and its clocking 19000 hard miles including a number of sweet "kills" along the way. Can I say that so far all my launches have been hopless? But if you have been to launching school and have the dynamics and your reflexs and reactions down pat, and you are still a bona vide hopper, then you have a beef with Cadillac and it should be taken care of without charge.

I have to disagree (although I have also not experienced hop yet). The V is supposed to be a high performance sophisticated almost super car with a lot of power designed to pull customers back to cadillac from foreign competition. The car should be able to apply all of it's power with a ham fisted, hasn't really got a clue but knows how to use a clutch, sort of driver without bouncing the back end all over town. I don't doubt that launch control is a skill that can be elevated, I just don't think that type of skill should be necessary to keep the car from tearing itself apart.

Not only that, I suspsect the test drivers for the major magazines are pretty good at launching. They get wheel hop. (Oh hell, who knows. Maybe they are just hacks.)

DgtalPimp
01-20-05, 10:08 PM
I agree, but if it means a 100% fix and Cadillac won't fork the bill, I would be willing to pay up to $2K just to make it stop.

They are forking the bill for the rear ends that are destroyed from the hop.

Did I say forking the bill?? :drinker

Kels55
01-21-05, 09:28 AM
Just another opinion. Perhaps the wheel hoppers should save their money and go to launching school.

I also, have to disagree, because even the professional test drivers are getting wheel hop (example: recent Motor Trend with the CTS-V, SRT-8, and GTO on the cover).

DgtalPimp
01-21-05, 04:26 PM
I also, have to disagree, because even the professional test drivers are getting wheel hop (example: recent Motor Trend with the CTS-V, SRT-8, and GTO on the cover).

The pros are getting the wheel hop, but more importantly the non-pros (us) are. Let say that in a busy street environment the car goes off from the wheel hop. What dangers/damage can happen?
In a controlled track environment if a car goes off from the wheel hop there is a lot less worry about the danger (drivers protective gear and emergency staff standing by) as well as the damage to the car (other drivers are there in a race/testing scenario as well, not a daily driver scenario).