: Drag tips or suggestions for 03 DTS.



NoMaBeach
10-12-08, 07:43 PM
Hey guys, wanted to get tips before my visit to Infineon Raceway on Wednesday the 15th. 2003 DTS all stock except for lowered suspension. Lay it on me:

-Octane for California Car?
-Tire pressure?
-Manual shift vs in Drive?
-Traction Control On/Off?


What did your Deville run? anything my friends.. Thanks!!

Raze
10-13-08, 10:19 AM
Put it in 2nd, leave TCC on, floor it just before the green on the tree lights up, don't preload the trans and don't manually shift, let it shift 1-2, 2-3 while in 2nd, it will redline and e-shift you up to 3rd so don't worry about hitting the rev limiter or not shifting to 3rd, it will also up the line pressure this way and make for faster/harder shifts. If you disable TCC it will start you in 2nd and your 60 foots will be SLOOOOOOOW. Don't attempt a burnout, you'll only put undue stress on your trans and driveshafts, plus with street tires a burnout isn't going to do squat except reduce tread. You could scrub the tires with a brush to ensure they're clean/good surface but that requires a pit crew. Lower tire pressure in 5 lb increments to determine best hookup. Realize that lower tire pressure will help you hook but will also put more stress on your driveline and the joints on the halfshafts are not indestructable, I know I've snapped 2 but not dragging and not in a straight line, but something to consider...

Post some slips when you're done...

NoMaBeach
10-13-08, 02:47 PM
Thanks Raze! exactly the kind of tips I was looking for. I do have experience drag racing. In high school, I had a 13 second small block 70 Chevelle. Your info is the stuff I never dealt with. Fwd car and all that computer stuff. I will post times.

Anyone else? What about octane? 91 is the hightest we have on the street. There is a Sunoco at the track with race gas.

mighty_quad4
10-13-08, 04:10 PM
erm. lowering the tire pressure takes stress off of the driveline. the sidewall absorbs more shock that way.

since he has an 03 he can turn the TC off and itll start in 1st. though from my experience it doesnt matter either way since the damned computer still takes over if the TC is on or off. whats the point of the button if it steps in regardless?... /rant.

also, lowering tire pressure if 5lb increments is WAY to much at once. try more like 2lbs each time at MOST. start off with 28lbs and work your way down. your pressure is too low when the car starts to wander on the top end or the ET rises whichever occurs first. add 2lbs back after that and thatll be the good drag race TP baseline.

also, doing a burntout on street tires is helpful but you dont need a huge tire smoking affair. its a moot point anyways since the ecm wont let us do one to begin with.

with your car, i suggest cleaning off the tires prefereably by driving around the water box and doing a few dry hops to check the track. since youre not new to drag racing ill assume you know what a dry hop is. next is staging. preload the converter up to about 2500 if itll let you. when the light drops let the car launch itself out and roll on the throttle quickly about 30-40 feet out. thatll minimize wheelspin.

Ur7x
10-13-08, 04:38 PM
Put it in 2nd, leave TCC on, floor it just before the green on the tree lights up, don't preload the trans and don't manually shift, let it shift 1-2, 2-3 while in 2nd, it will redline and e-shift you up to 3rd so don't worry about hitting the rev limiter or not shifting to 3rd, it will also up the line pressure this way and make for faster/harder shifts....

There is lots of debate if these cars go faster with a "stomp and go" or the brake stand technique (aka load up the tranny)...

Most back to back tests show that preloading the tranny to about 2000-2500 RPM will produce the best times... The fear is that the traction control system will deactivate cylinders... We are all pretty sure that this is NOT the case for stock PCM's...

However tuned PCMs currently being produced will turn of half the cylinders and will run slower.

Try it both ways and post the results. Betcha a 2500 Preload will drop your 1/4 mile time by at least 0.5 seconds.

Good Luck!

mythy
10-14-08, 01:13 AM
Can any one give me a few pointers on a 98 Eldorado?


She has practically no power when I mash the peddle between 0 and 40mph :confused: I must be doing some thing wrong here...

Submariner409
10-14-08, 07:52 AM
mythy, Several replies to your other posts elsewhere on this subject have pretty much nailed down that your transmission is starting off in second gear, probably due to either the ISS (Input Speed Sensor) or the 1-2 and 2-3 shift solenoids being faulty and placing the transmission in a torque management or traction control mode.

On a level road, accelerate normally and count the number of shift points (there should be 3 distinct shifts) and the speed at which TCC (Torque Converter Control) engages. TCC is that last 200 - 300 rpm drop at above 45 mph under light throttle. If your transmission does not shift through 4 gears and TCC (5th or OD), then you have problems.

As you posted, and several answered, an Eldorado IS NOT SLOW from 0 to 40 mph.

codewize
10-15-08, 08:27 AM
Lots of experienced advice here.

I personally ran my best times loading the TC to around 2200, TC on with the torque management defeat button pushed, launching the car hard and holding it to the floor.

I let the car do all the shifting.

DO NOT DO A BURN OUT. I know it looks like fun but if you're running street tires there are lots of cons to going through the water box. Don't even drive through it.

Water gets in the tread and while you stage it all runs down and makes a puddle under your tire. Thus causing you to launch in a puddle of water.

Oh yeah, contrary to what some believe, I ran Sunoco 93 octane. Some say it doesn't matter, I say it definitely does.

mighty_quad4
10-15-08, 01:18 PM
im not sure if his car will even let him launch at 2500 or even 2000 for that matter. my 2000 STS forces the rpm down to 1700 when i footbrake it. TC on or off doesnt matter.

codewize
10-15-08, 09:26 PM
Really? Hmm I don't have that problem at all. I can gas it with my foot on the brake until the converter flashes.


im not sure if his car will even let him launch at 2500 or even 2000 for that matter. my 2000 STS forces the rpm down to 1700 when i footbrake it. TC on or off doesnt matter.

mighty_quad4
10-15-08, 09:37 PM
my STS wont go over 2000rpm. it feels like the ecm is cutting power. it flat refuses to go higher than about 1700ish. i own a 69 Barracuda with a 3000 stall converter. im familiar with what one feels like at full stall and the Cadillac isnt hitting full stall.

AJxtcman
10-15-08, 09:43 PM
Really? Hmm I don't have that problem at all. I can gas it with my foot on the brake until the converter flashes.

Can you get me a picture of that?
I am getting concerned about my sanity. :suspense:

You can't do it. I have spent too much time working on Highlines car I he can't do that, so if he can't you can't unless I am loosing it and fumbled across something. Hmm That doesn't make sense either because that PCM ran slower. I need to stop thinking.
I have spent the last 3 hrs looking at your BIN file

Got to go something just came to me.

mighty_quad4
10-15-08, 09:57 PM
Really? Hmm I don't have that problem at all. I can gas it with my foot on the brake until the converter flashes.

i hate to get off topic here but i think its still a bit in line with Drag Tips because it concerns launch a car from a stop.

AJ posted this in another thread:
I tried to test the stall speed in a 2003 DHS. To do this you place the car in gear, apply the brake to hold the car, and mash the gas. The car would rev to 1800 RPM's and then start to drop off. Then if I held it for more than say 5 seconds it would kill cylinders. pretty soon it was 1500 RPM's

this is exactly what my car does though i cant vouch for the dropping down to 1500 because i either A. didnt notice or B. didnt do it long enough for it to drop. either way, what he posted is what my car does.

so to sum it up, an 03 DTS might be able to flash a converter to 2500 but my 2000 STS can not. i would bet an 03 DTS cant either.

ideally id want acar that wouldnt tell me how to drive itself. i am the driver not the car and as such i prefer to be responsible for what happens.

from what i gathered the first time out with the STS is that the car cant do a burnout of ANY kind what so ever [ i sort of already knew this just didnt experience it in the car till then ], keeping the TC ON and keeping the shifter in 2nd makes the car shift a little harder, and stallign the converter beyond 1700-1800rpm is a waste of time. all of that netted me a HORRIBLE 2.6 60 ft time as the ****ing car refusedto launch with any authority at ALL and i didnt get ANY power what so ever until 3500-4000 rpm. this resulted in 9.90s and 10 flats in the 1/8th. the car has an honest 9.60 in it at least.

to make things worse, my friend was at the strip with his 06 Impala SS. he was running 9.40s @ 75mph and i was running 9.90s @ 74mph. THATS frustrating.

Raze
10-15-08, 10:46 PM
erm. lowering the tire pressure takes stress off of the driveline. the sidewall absorbs more shock that way.


On real drag tires this is 100% true, not so on street tires that have reinforced sidewalls that don't 'give'...


since he has an 03 he can turn the TC off and itll start in 1st. though from my experience it doesnt matter either way since the damned computer still takes over if the TC is on or off. whats the point of the button if it steps in regardless?... /rant.

I'm going by my 98, if they changed it in 03+ cool...



also, lowering tire pressure if 5lb increments is WAY to much at once. try more like 2lbs each time at MOST. start off with 28lbs and work your way down. your pressure is too low when the car starts to wander on the top end or the ET rises whichever occurs first. add 2lbs back after that and thatll be the good drag race TP baseline.

I should have clarified that since he's new to dragging he should drop larger amounts first to find where the upper and lower bounds are, and then use smaller increments to dial it in, if you go 2lbs it could take you all night to find the sweet spot...



also, doing a burntout on street tires is helpful but you dont need a huge tire smoking affair. its a moot point anyways since the ecm wont let us do one to begin with.

I have to disagree, street tires are nothing like drag tires and burning them out won't do much at all, like I said a good scrub to clean em up is best. Actually on my 98 if you just tap the brakes enough to get the brake lights on you can stomp on it and it'll override the TC and let you smoke em...

NoMaBeach
10-16-08, 12:27 AM
Here ya go folks... I stalled the converter to about 2200 rpms in 2nd and held it through. Only got 2 practice runs and lost in the first round. I broke out on my 15.85 dial in... ran a 15.497 @ 88.56 miles an hour on 96 sunoco with a splash of 91. All stock DTS except for the lowered springs.

http://nomabeach.com/DragRaceResults.jpg

codewize
10-16-08, 12:43 AM
Just to clarify, My DTS is an 01.

AJxtcman
10-16-08, 07:44 AM
First Time out with the First Tune
The PDF's are better images
45331
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Bert/timeslip.jpg

Second Time out with a little tweaking on the TUNE
45332
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Bert/102007.jpg


First Time Out after the converter
45333
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Bert/5-08.jpg


Next Time this Year we ran a 14.6

After That it has been on the juice

Mark0101
10-16-08, 01:08 PM
It seems to slow down Alot up top. Assuming AJ has a DTS also, the 60' times are about the same but codewize is running slower in ET and trap speed. DTS should be in the 15.3 or so at 92+ MPH. What elevation is the track at?

AJxtcman
10-16-08, 01:40 PM
Not sure of the elevation at Great Lakes Dragaway.

BTW the runs from 5-2008 were the first time we used the Torque Management Defeat Device.

This car is a 2003 DHS 275hp engine with 3.71 gears, Shift Kit, Corsa Exhaust, Volant CAI, Custom TUNE, 2008 ADD ONs include 3500 stall (that acts like a 2600), BIG 245 50 18 tires,Torque Management Defeat Device, Removed the left headlamp (ran a 14.6), 250whp shot of N2O. We have several runs in the 13's and we plan on a 12 second run as soon as the car gets out of my stall. More trans work.

The car started out as a 16.1 car
With the gears, shift kit, Exhaust, CAI, and my tune we ran a 15.1
With the 3500 Stall, Torque Management Defeat, Taller Tires we ran a 14.6
With a 125whp shot of Nitrous we ran a 13.8 and had very little traction
Installed a set of 17" Drag Radials, Shot our selves in the foot (Faulty N2O Solenoid Piston) and a 225 shot of Nitrous we ran a 13.8 AGAIN, but never made 1 full run. Hey at least we didn't have traction problems :histeric:

mighty_quad4
10-16-08, 07:11 PM
On real drag tires this is 100% true, not so on street tires that have reinforced sidewalls that don't 'give'...



I have to disagree, street tires are nothing like drag tires and burning them out won't do much at all, like I said a good scrub to clean em up is best. Actually on my 98 if you just tap the brakes enough to get the brake lights on you can stomp on it and it'll override the TC and let you smoke em...

you can wrinkle the sidewall on a radial tire if the car is powerful enough and the pressure is low though it wont happen on a FWD Caddy.

we are in agreeance on the second statement. i should have clarified that anything over cleaning the tires off is a waste of time. a slight wisp of smoke is about all you need to do at most.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Noma,

nice runs! to compare my STS in 1/8th miles. your 60ft times are a full three tenths better than mine but we run similar 1/8th mile times. i was running 9.90s and 10 flats. my mph was much higher than yours at 73.9x mph all night. you you extremely well. way to go! :worship:

codewize
10-16-08, 07:18 PM
AJ doesn't own a Caddi :confused: He's running Highlines DHS


It seems to slow down Alot up top. Assuming AJ has a DTS also, the 60' times are about the same but codewize is running slower in ET and trap speed. DTS should be in the 15.3 or so at 92+ MPH. What elevation is the track at?

codewize
10-16-08, 07:22 PM
I hate to beat it up like that but yes I'll try to get a picture. You guys also started out saying that turning off the TC disabled first gear until I brought it to your attention that my car did not do that.

You guys also claim that the Deville series never had PAS. I can assure you that my factory PCM has PAS enabled.

I'm telling you I launched the first 2 times over 2000 RPM. I want to say around 2200 or so. The car never missed a beat, never stuttered and never sounded like it was doing anything but getting ready to haul ass.

Now remember, I was on the button when I did this.


Can you get me a picture of that?
I am getting concerned about my sanity. :suspense:

You can't do it. I have spent too much time working on Highlines car I he can't do that, so if he can't you can't unless I am loosing it and fumbled across something. Hmm That doesn't make sense either because that PCM ran slower. I need to stop thinking.
I have spent the last 3 hrs looking at your BIN file

Got to go something just came to me.

AJxtcman
10-16-08, 08:12 PM
I hate to beat it up like that but yes I'll try to get a picture. You guys also started out saying that turning off the TC disabled first gear until I brought it to your attention that my car did not do that.

You guys also claim that the Deville series never had PAS. I can assure you that my factory PCM has PAS enabled.

I'm telling you I launched the first 2 times over 2000 RPM. I want to say around 2200 or so. The car never missed a beat, never stuttered and never sounded like it was doing anything but getting ready to haul ass.

Now remember, I was on the button when I did this.

Button won't turn off the "Brake Torque Abuse"

PAS is triggered by the IPC. The IPC sends out a Class II message to the PCM that will enable PAS. All the 2000 + Northstars have PAS. The only way that the will turn on is to get a message from the IPC. The IPC get a Message from the PCM that it is First Gear. I don't know hwy the PCM just doesn't take care of it, but that is the way the "Northstar System" works.
I have been saying for years that the term "Northstar System" was a made up term for marketing ONLY.
Now I am eating my words. :crying2:

I know too much now! The General may have to kill me :sneaky:

I have learned a lot in the last year.

Blown & Injected
12-10-08, 05:20 AM
About tires - rear tires to 45 - 50 psi and the reason to mess with the front(drive) tires is to use the right pressure to get the best patch on the ground. Do a burn out and look at the pattern. Lower pressure will make it darker on the outer edge, more will put more of the middle of the tire on the ground.

Definitely drive around the water box - not possible at some places like Atco - a rolling burn out will clean the tires and hot tires, even street tires, are stickier then cold tires.

Make sure everything is right and in good condition - like plugs and wires - sensors and settings - Like Traction Control, I have never had TC help me launch a car.

1/2 tank of 93 octane, and take all the extra stuff out of the car - empty the trunk. Drive the car gently to the track.

eyekandyboats.inc
12-13-08, 12:45 AM
okay i know this is older thread but i wanted to ask what feeling you have when you give it gas with the brakes on
i just tired it in my 01 DTS and i ran up till 2200 RPM before it drooped but it felt very weird when i did it.
a constant noise. kind of like a clutch plate just barely touching
what is it supposed to feel like/sound like?
is it just supposed to rev the motor while you dont go any where. just engine sound and that is all

Blown & Injected
12-15-08, 01:39 PM
It helps get the engine closer to its peak power before taking off. Engine noise is all that should be heard but due to the stress it is certainly possible to hear something else make some noise.

A more normal like street car does not benefit too much from this because such a car can also benefit from the sling shot like effect from the engine revving before the torque converter starts sending the power thru the trans.

Problem is that once ya get near the 300 HP range, traction can be a problem and the sling shot effect I mention then becomes a shock to the tires. Loading up the car on the foot brake can make it a bit easier to control the wheel spin