: First to say it: V2 reviews are boring.



razl
10-12-08, 02:14 PM
Is anybody else getting bored reading the never ending positives and - apparently - zero negatives that the V2 is getting?

Don't get me wrong, it looks like GM and Caddy hit a homer with the V2. But I keep hoping to find something, somewhere that's worth really arguing or quibbling about and there just isn't anything.

At worst, a reviewer might allude to a comparable (and presumably more expense) competitor as somehow being better in an intangible way - like Clarkson's ending where he says that an "I believe that ultimately an M5 would be more satisfying, a touch more crisp." but that's all subjective and not much fun to kick around (other than to pile on).

I suppose the final frontier of debate is the still unannounced final price and the #s that real world consumers put down at their local tracks, but all indicators are that they're going to be relatively awesome (even if they don't quite "suck the doors off an M5").

In the end, I'm not hoping for a fatal flaw, but it's looking more and more like this is going to be a pretty quiet forum if there's nothing much to complain about.

There's worse problems to have, but its going to be boring if the damn thing is perfect. :duck:

CVP33
10-12-08, 06:40 PM
I'm not exactly bored. I saw one reviewer characterize the acceleration as comparable to being lit on fire, taking a cheese grater to your nut sack, splashing alcohol on the wound and being squeezed out the anus of a female rhino in heat simultaneously. Now that my friends is excitement! :highfive:

Jpjr
10-12-08, 08:33 PM
Is anybody else getting bored reading the never ending positives and - apparently - zero negatives that the V2 is getting?

Don't get me wrong, it looks like GM and Caddy hit a homer with the V2. But I keep hoping to find something, somewhere that's worth really arguing or quibbling about and there just isn't anything.

At worst, a reviewer might allude to a comparable (and presumably more expense) competitor as somehow being better in an intangible way - like Clarkson's ending where he says that an "I believe that ultimately an M5 would be more satisfying, a touch more crisp." but that's all subjective and not much fun to kick around (other than to pile on).

I suppose the final frontier of debate is the still unannounced final price and the #s that real world consumers put down at their local tracks, but all indicators are that they're going to be relatively awesome (even if they don't quite "suck the doors off an M5").

In the end, I'm not hoping for a fatal flaw, but it's looking more and more like this is going to be a pretty quiet forum if there's nothing much to complain about.

There's worse problems to have, but its going to be boring if the damn thing is perfect. :duck:


This is a nice thread to change the pace here since it seems like the MSRP reveal is being delayed. (I would jokingly say because the V2 is the absolute last thing on any execs mind at GM right now, but no one is laughing.)

I agree that the reviews are positive, and part of the reason is perspective.. hint: price. If GM released this car at $80k loaded, you would start to hear immediate groaning from the rags. The top gear guy hinted at the end of the review that if money were no object he would still buy the M5. At $59k, all of the positives will continue to shine. Caddy needs to make sure money is an object for the V2 to be universally loved.

Also, the car is still in the honeymooning phase with the press. Does anyone remember how long the new GTO was the darling of the rags until it turned out that 3 of them sold? After sales tanked all of the sudden the rags thought the car was ugly and terrible. They hedge thier bets early on until sales back up the reviews.

vperl
10-12-08, 09:14 PM
:yawn:Gm has not only decided not to release the MSRP just on the NEW 2009 CTS-V, GM has decided that even though the new Camero is to be on show rooms floors in a few months the Camero MSRP is top secret :yawn:.

The GM Exec. maybe checking into the planned gold parachute more than other things, or not.

But who cares?

The Tony Show
10-12-08, 10:06 PM
"Camero"

:lol:

Every magazine and web site in print has told us what the MSRP of the CTS-V and Camaro are going to be. The only people still complaining are those who are too thick to read between the very transparent lines.

vperl
10-13-08, 12:40 AM
ThankYou, I know that all can say for a fact that everyone welcomes your thoughtful reply.

Your the BEST, your gunna get plenty of sales from buyers (that actually have cash) with your thoughtful replies and knowledge.

I for one will be in line to purchase.

THANKS

urbanski
10-13-08, 09:26 AM
camero++

The Tony Show
10-13-08, 10:05 AM
ThankYou, I know that all can say for a fact that everyone welcomes your thoughtful reply.



Seriously man- every magazine out there has been told by Cadillac the car will be $60k + options, est. $68k loaded. Why is the "official" announcement so important, and why do some people think it's some big conspiracy?

Sheesh.

We've got this amazing car coming out that even Jeremy Clarkson thinks is insanely good, and yet all we can do is squabble about an MSRP we already know.

Jpjr
10-13-08, 11:32 AM
Seriously man- every magazine out there has been told by Cadillac the car will be $60k + options, est. $68k loaded. Why is the "official" announcement so important, and why do some people think it's some big conspiracy?

Sheesh.

We've got this amazing car coming out that even Jeremy Clarkson thinks is insanely good, and yet all we can do is squabble about an MSRP we already know.

I am sure that the wives and bankers are fine with what someone saw in a magazine :)

Can we stop acting like price is not one of the most important factors in buying a car? I have never bought a thing in my life where $5k didn't matter, I would be out of business if I did.

RightTurn
10-13-08, 11:36 AM
Here's the answer: Don't consider buying it till you know the price. :gah: It's not like they are on the lots now without stickers on 'em. Good grief.

The Tony Show
10-13-08, 11:38 AM
Is anybody else getting bored reading the never ending positives and - apparently - zero negatives that the V2 is getting?

Don't get me wrong, it looks like GM and Caddy hit a homer with the V2. But I keep hoping to find something, somewhere that's worth really arguing or quibbling about and there just isn't anything.

Well, there you go razl. It looks like the Internet will always find something to argue, quibble or complain about. :lol:

RightTurn
10-13-08, 11:44 AM
I almost dread when the cars hit the streets. This board will be more whiney than...nevermind. :coffee:

urbanski
10-13-08, 11:54 AM
yeah nevermind, but the whining will be unparalleled

vperl
10-13-08, 02:06 PM
I figure that (Jpjr) meant exactly the thing I have been asking .....

The MSRP does matter, however if there a load of richey riches out there using Daddy's money, I can understand why 5K means nothing, and the types of replies that are given by the ones selling the vehicles to us, that actually have means to buy the vehicle..

Seems some of you are acting like one of my X's, spending cash becasue they have it in hand today.... like a (parden the expression) "Drunk Sailor".

But, I am sure someone will make some snide remarks, which I dearly love.
I have little to do , but watch little people show how little they are. :highfive:

The Tony Show
10-13-08, 02:56 PM
What 5k are you talking about?

vperl
10-13-08, 03:33 PM
Please read :confused: the posts of two three back , as I remember it was a felloow the name, Jpjr that used the number that was used an an example :eek: ?

vperl
10-13-08, 03:36 PM
I am sure that the wives and bankers are fine with what someone saw in a magazine :)

Can we stop acting like price is not one of the most important factors in buying a car? I have never bought a thing in my life where $5k didn't matter, I would be out of business if I did.

************************************************** ********

deAR tONY THIS IS THE MESSAGE.....:thepan:

The Tony Show
10-13-08, 03:55 PM
I still fail to see how this changes the fact that every single magazine, web site and newspaper review has quoted nearly identical $60k starting prices, less than $70k fully loaded. I highly doubt they all "guessed" the exact same numbers, so where did they get it from? (hint: probably the same people that loaned them the car to test).

At this point, we already know what the price is going to be, even though it's not "official"- I guess I just don't get what you're so upset about. Explain to me how your life is going to change once Cadillac.com says "$59,995" to go along with the number already posted in every magazine, and maybe I'll understand your anger a little better.

vperl
10-13-08, 04:31 PM
I still fail to see how this changes the fact that every single magazine, web site and newspaper review has quoted nearly identical $60k starting prices, less than $70k fully loaded. I highly doubt they all "guessed" the exact same numbers, so where did they get it from? (hint: probably the same people that loaned them the car to test).

At this point, we already know what the price is going to be, even though it's not "official"- I guess I just don't get what you're so upset about. Explain to me how your life is going to change once Cadillac.com says "$59,995" to go along with the number already posted in every magazine, and maybe I'll understand your anger a little better.

************************************************** *

" ANGER ? " look at your posts tell me who seems so disappointed that we, the folks with the cash ( NOT the sales force) are interested in the actual price, not some concocted price that is yet to be confirmed, The under 60K may very well be the price...

I do not as the Jpjr person noted just hand out money till I know the fial price... even though I will get the vehicle.. unless I get the type of attitude from my dealers as from the sellers here...


I force no one to go my path, or suppose what is going to be the price, by way of everyone quoting in lockstep a price that has not been confirmed.

I do hope the magazines are correct, but I wait till GM declares the price before I condem those that just ask the question about the real MSRP, not a fairy tail we read in books or magazines...
Did you marry my last X ? :thepan:

The Tony Show
10-13-08, 05:11 PM
If you're a player at <$70k, put a deposit down on the car with the stipulation that it is refundable if the MSRP is not to your liking once it's announced- it's that simple. You have several choices here on the Forum (both Plaza and Superior) who will take a deposit that is refundable if you find the MSRP to be out of line.

When it comes to Magazine Cover cars like the Mustang KR, LP640, ZR-1, GT-R and CTS-V, etc, there's two kinds of people: The ones who throw the money down and get one, and the ones who rant and rave about them on the Internet and end up being the last guy on the block to get one (or don't get one at all).

You're acting like someone is forcing you to write them a blank check just to get on a list, which none of the Dealers here are doing. Considering how easy both forum Dealers are trying to make the reservation process until MSRP is announced, putting Jpjr's name in bold, red letters, ranting about Mom and Dad's money and your manufactured outrage is pointless.

vperl
10-13-08, 07:00 PM
Sir, any outrage is on you, I never have said you are anything but an honorable individual, if you think I am angery, you are very wrong...


Please do not shift your sales motivations to me, I figure you want a sale, why talk in such defensive tone? You seem to be reasonable and as such you are the type of person that would be good in car sales, many adjectives are used to describe your traits as such.

My dealers here are just fine and the owners are all local people in the community, for many years. I am working with one dealership. ThankYou.

The Tony Show
10-13-08, 07:54 PM
Sales motivations? What are you even talking about? I thought we were discussing the price of the car?

*sigh* It's like trying to have three separate conversations at once. This is going nowhere, so I'm bowing of trying to reason with you. :wave:

CVP33
10-13-08, 08:11 PM
Are we still talking about rhino anuses? If so, I'm a buyer at any price.

vperl
10-13-08, 08:34 PM
Are we still talking about rhino anuses? If so, I'm a buyer at any price.

************************************************** *****

Tony has one special one for sale, along with his confused mind...


Thanks, but you refuse to talk about the MSRP, you said everyone had all the info they needed, I pointed out that NOT every person ( the customer)
Wants to hand over more money than is necessary, My last X never understood that either.

Thanks for the great discourse

fast_with_class
10-13-08, 08:56 PM
Well, I for one am buying as long as it stays within reason, thats why I put a deposit down. I am not giving more than MSRP, but if the MSRP is $5000 higher than estimated, whats the big deal? Whats that, like a monthly payment difference of $100 or less? I mean, yeah you are giving money away if you insist to pay more than MSRP, but I think an 8-10 percent price diff is well with-in affordability at these price levels. Oh, and I am not some rich kid who was handed money from daddy and yes, I have been divorced. Twice.

The Tony Show
10-13-08, 08:57 PM
Well, I for one am buying as long as it stays within reason, thats why I put a deposit down. I am not giving more than MSRP, but if the MSRP is $5000 higher than estimated, whats the big deal? Whats that, like a monthly payment difference of $100 or less? I mean, yeah you are giving money away if you insist to pay more than MSRP, but I think an 8-10 percent price diff is well with-in affordability at these price levels. Oh, and I am not some rich kid who was handed money from daddy and yes, I have been divorced. Twice.


Win.


Are we still talking about rhino anuses? If so, I'm a buyer at any price.

:rofl:

The Tony Show
10-13-08, 09:25 PM
************************************************** *****

Tony has one special one for sale, along with his confused mind...


Thanks, but you refuse to talk about the MSRP, you said everyone had all the info they needed, I pointed out that NOT every person ( the customer)
Wants to hand over more money than is necessary, My last X never understood that either.

Thanks for the great discourse

You're welcome.

Only one of us is confused here chief, and it isn't me- all I've been talking about in this thread is msrp, but you keep trailing off on tangents and ignoring the facts staring you in the face. Your stubborn refusal to comprehend that MSRP has already been revealed to all the magazines makes this conversation pointless. There is nothing for me to "disclose", because it's already out there.

Agh- I'm getting drawn back in already! Must.....stop......opening.....thread....... :lol:

Vrocks
10-14-08, 10:54 AM
I think the base price will be around $62,000 - $63,000 because of the great reviews, potential customer interest, and, even though we're going into a deeper recession, it looks like things are settling down (avoiding a full blown international crash).

concorso
10-14-08, 02:33 PM
Certain people in this thread really annoy me, and Im sure others. I hope GM actually doesnt release the price until the very very last minute, in an effort to get these 2 complainers off the board. God help GM, if said complainers' V exhibits anything but perfection...

Facts. At $70k base, this car is still a steal, and Id still consider buying it, even knowing that the base will be around $60k... No, not just consider, Id have to be convinced NOT to buy it.

CBVLS6
10-14-08, 04:34 PM
Ill agree with that... but honestly who the crap cares what most of these guys think?

Lots of them like cars that I wouldn't be caught dead in, opinions are opinions. I rather like the unrefined brutality of the V1 that many critics sneered at, but thats me. I don't really mind a car that will slam you into the wall if you mistreat it, makes one strive for excellence. If the V1 was the case in precedent for reviews of the V2, I think theres going to be some happy folks out there.

PLUS..... the mods baby, dont forget the mods!

Jpjr
10-14-08, 05:39 PM
Certain people in this thread really annoy me, and Im sure others. I hope GM actually doesnt release the price until the very very last minute, in an effort to get these 2 complainers off the board. God help GM, if said complainers' V exhibits anything but perfection...

Facts. At $70k base, this car is still a steal, and Id still consider buying it, even knowing that the base will be around $60k... No, not just consider, Id have to be convinced NOT to buy it.

Am I one of the complainers?:crybaby:

For starters, the car is not a steal at $70k. Maybe to you and many others, but for my money it is not. No car is, just look at where residuals are headed. I'm looking for a car that will hold some basic value (so I don't lose $45k in two years like the guy who sold me his STS-V did). Pricing more than 20% above the loaded base model is quickly approaching dangerous territory.

(Of course ALL cars depreciate like mad, but Cadillac V's do not have an especially good track record. *Yes*, on a relative value basis this car is a steal compared to comparibly priced models. Unfortunately there is a lot of other things you can do with $70k right now, which the automakers know all too well.)

Second, trying to remove/mute posters because you don't like thier comments is exactly the kind of approach that has run the Big 3 into the proverbial ground. They ignored the negative comments on thier cars and service. They thought they were always entitled to American sales. Union workers thought they were entitled to non-competitive wages. Etc., etc. I agree if someone is violating the forum rules action should be taken, but not simply for dissenting popular forum opinion.

Third, price is the most important aspect in buying a vehicle in my opinion. Some people here have a lot of money to spend and perhaps have lost touch with this concept. I want to know the exact price. I want to be able to line up financing. I want to know what my tax and registration fees will be. Not because I expect to be surprised but because I want some finality to the months of antipation.

All my opinion guys, not fact.

P-Funk
10-15-08, 10:43 AM
I am one of the complainers!:crybaby:




Fixed it for ya. Carry on.

:food-snacking:

jkviper
10-15-08, 11:28 AM
Also, the car is still in the honeymooning phase with the press. Does anyone remember how long the new GTO was the darling of the rags until it turned out that 3 of them sold? After sales tanked all of the sudden the rags thought the car was ugly and terrible. They hedge thier bets early on until sales back up the reviews.

Bingo! It is very rare the initial reviews are negative in any way shape or form on enthusiast cars. The CTS V2 is no doubt a great car, but you won't hear the nit-picking negatives until the 2nd or third reviews of the mags.

Cadillac Tony
10-15-08, 12:16 PM
Jeremy Clarkson savaged the first CTS-V in his initial review (cheap interior, wonky shifter, "ruler" styling, excessive bonging, etc....). For him to speak so highly of the car shows a massive improvement. Even the mainstream rags like Car & Driver and Motor Trend mentioned the wheelhop in the first CTS-V, whereas the reviews of the new one have no mention of any such "achilles' heel".

I'm sure that there will be little nitpicks over time, but that's the case with any car. The fact of the matter is that the reviews of the first gen were 75% good, 25% "meh", but the reviews of the 2009 have been 99% glowing, and that speaks volumes for what a good job GM did on the car.

dqw1
10-15-08, 12:25 PM
I have to admit I'm totally stunned over how good the reviews have been. This might be the best X-Mas present I've ever given myself.

Jpjr
10-15-08, 02:55 PM
Jeremy Clarkson savaged the first CTS-V in his initial review (cheap interior, wonky shifter, "ruler" styling, excessive bonging, etc....). For him to speak so highly of the car shows a massive improvement. Even the mainstream rags like Car & Driver and Motor Trend mentioned the wheelhop in the first CTS-V, whereas the reviews of the new one have no mention of any such "achilles' heel".

I'm sure that there will be little nitpicks over time, but that's the case with any car. The fact of the matter is that the reviews of the first gen were 75% good, 25% "meh", but the reviews of the 2009 have been 99% glowing, and that speaks volumes for what a good job GM did on the car.

The V2 appears to be amazingly better than the V1, which is coming through in almost every review. It is a great car, no doubt.

concorso
10-15-08, 04:23 PM
Am I one of the complainers?:crybaby:

For starters, the car is not a steal at $70k. Maybe to you and many others, but for my money it is not. No car is, just look at where residuals are headed. I'm looking for a car that will hold some basic value (so I don't lose $45k in two years like the guy who sold me his STS-V did). Pricing more than 20% above the loaded base model is quickly approaching dangerous territory.

(Of course ALL cars depreciate like mad, but Cadillac V's do not have an especially good track record. *Yes*, on a relative value basis this car is a steal compared to comparibly priced models. Unfortunately there is a lot of other things you can do with $70k right now, which the automakers know all too well.)

Second, trying to remove/mute posters because you don't like thier comments is exactly the kind of approach that has run the Big 3 into the proverbial ground. They ignored the negative comments on thier cars and service. They thought they were always entitled to American sales. Union workers thought they were entitled to non-competitive wages. Etc., etc. I agree if someone is violating the forum rules action should be taken, but not simply for dissenting popular forum opinion.

Third, price is the most important aspect in buying a vehicle in my opinion. Some people here have a lot of money to spend and perhaps have lost touch with this concept. I want to know the exact price. I want to be able to line up financing. I want to know what my tax and registration fees will be. Not because I expect to be surprised but because I want some finality to the months of antipation.

All my opinion guys, not fact.

Hey, if the shoe fits...

Please dont put words in my keyboard...I didnt say you should be banned. Everyone has a right to say what they like, and Id defend that ideal, regardless of if I agree with the person or not. Let me translate what I said. I hope you stop complaining, and if not, I hope you leave.

You say its a great car. You say no car is worth this kind of money. You say price is the most important part in buying a car. You say $70k is a relative bargain, which means at $5-10k cheaper, its a freaking steal. I didnt even mean it was a steal to comparably priced cars (your words). I meant it was a steal to comparable cars, full stop. If you think its a relative steal to comparably priced cars, whats the big problem?

Ive never seen someone complain sooooo much just to get some 'finality'.
Regardless, if they told you the price to the exact dollar, you still couldnt buy it yet. Except put a downpayment on one. A downpayment youll get back in full, if you dont want the car.

RightTurn
10-15-08, 04:41 PM
Second, trying to remove/mute posters because you don't like thier comments is exactly the kind of approach that has run the Big 3 into the proverbial ground.

I believe the only reason(s) people are banned are for making personal attacks or breaking other forum rules, which are plainly stated. :yup:

Jpjr
10-15-08, 11:32 PM
Hey, if the shoe fits...

Please dont put words in my keyboard...I didnt say you should be banned. Everyone has a right to say what they like, and Id defend that ideal, regardless of if I agree with the person or not. Let me translate what I said. I hope you stop complaining, and if not, I hope you leave.

You say its a great car. You say no car is worth this kind of money. You say price is the most important part in buying a car. You say $70k is a relative bargain, which means at $5-10k cheaper, its a freaking steal. I didnt even mean it was a steal to comparably priced cars (your words). I meant it was a steal to comparable cars, full stop. If you think its a relative steal to comparably priced cars, whats the big problem?

Ive never seen someone complain sooooo much just to get some 'finality'.
Regardless, if they told you the price to the exact dollar, you still couldnt buy it yet. Except put a downpayment on one. A downpayment youll get back in full, if you dont want the car.

This post is full of complaints. Stop whining dude. Let me worry about my downpayment and my comments.

vperl
10-15-08, 11:44 PM
This post is full of complaints. Stop whining dude. Let me worry about my downpayment and my comments.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Jpjr, one has to remember that most of these "people" are probably 13 year old boys, or set-ups to not allow open disscussion on this issue that is obvious, yet totally unresolved.

Just because some review & magazines say 60K, just what 9is the total cost ...I cannot figue that out till I know exactly what the final price is load to the gills.

Jpjr, maybe they have more info..I do not know. maybe the shills do not want this in discussion.

I suspect the attacks to come, just look who are the leaders of the pack.

concorso
10-16-08, 03:15 PM
This post is full of complaints. Stop whining dude. Let me worry about my downpayment and my comments. As much as youre free to keep complaining about the lack of an official price, I am also free to continue calling you on it...I still havent read where you explain how the lack of price is stopping you from a purchase? Or actually holding you up from doing anything in anyway? If the car comes at $70k, it will lose a huge amount of sales, Im sure we can agree on that. Cadillac knows they have to price this car correctly. And 'correctly' means the base really can't be above $65k. The ONLY way I see this as a bad thing is if your lease is up on your present car.

Vperl...twice that age plus a couple years. ;) Looking forward to a Coupe V! Shills...funny. :)


You know, the lack of pricing is annoying for others too. I must admit that for me, its not a huge deal as Im getting a CoupeV. But I can accept that its annoying to not have a price. But complaining about it wont change it. Theres a reason theyve waited this long. Most other models would have been priced 6 months ago. Im willing to let it go tho, I know they know they need to do this car right, no questions asked.

vperl
10-16-08, 04:33 PM
Jpjr, did you get an invite to NY for the 4 hour race track experience ?

All the big shots are going to be there, I am looking at airfares..Living in the NW kinda makes it a tad more nteresting to get to NY, and that the last time
I was on the East coast you were not around...I was about your age then..

Jpjr
10-16-08, 08:31 PM
As much as youre free to keep complaining about the lack of an official price, I am also free to continue calling you on it...I still havent read where you explain how the lack of price is stopping you from a purchase? Or actually holding you up from doing anything in anyway? If the car comes at $70k, it will lose a huge amount of sales, Im sure we can agree on that. Cadillac knows they have to price this car correctly. And 'correctly' means the base really can't be above $65k. The ONLY way I see this as a bad thing is if your lease is up on your present car.

Vperl...twice that age plus a couple years. ;) Looking forward to a Coupe V! Shills...funny. :)


You know, the lack of pricing is annoying for others too. I must admit that for me, its not a huge deal as Im getting a CoupeV. But I can accept that its annoying to not have a price. But complaining about it wont change it. Theres a reason theyve waited this long. Most other models would have been priced 6 months ago. Im willing to let it go tho, I know they know they need to do this car right, no questions asked.

There you go again.

vperl
10-16-08, 08:52 PM
This is more fun than a pointy stick in the eye, but that is another story.