: No, PLEASE take it with you....



N0DIH
10-10-08, 08:50 PM
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/873035317.html

bicentennialcadillac
10-10-08, 08:55 PM
Perhaps the lowrider/idiot ratio will one day reach 1/1 and they'll leave these beauties alone.

N0DIH
10-10-08, 09:23 PM
I guess if the price is right it could be salvaged and brought back to its former glory....

csbuckn
10-10-08, 10:21 PM
Its all personal opinion. That looks 1000x better than that other thing. Not took to the extreme. If you were to do a lowrider with a brougham, would this be a good representation?

Aron9000
10-10-08, 11:05 PM
Its all personal opinion. That looks 1000x better than that other thing. Not took to the extreme. If you were to do a lowrider with a brougham, would this be a good representation?

:werd: That green thing wasn't even a lowrider though, it just had those big ugly wheels. I actually like lowriders(some of them), but jacked up with the 30" wheel thing is way worse.

My_favorite_Brougham
10-11-08, 04:24 AM
That's the classic Lowrider v. Donk argument. Great big rims are just donks, and are stupid in my opinion. I don't really care for lowriders, and I particularly dislike them when done to 80s/90s Cadillacs. But they can be tasteful when done to the right car, say a 1958 Chevy Biscayne or 1963 Impala; even a 40s/50s Mercury if you're a 'true' lowrider (frenched headlights, plain hubcaps on wide whites, etc.).

Basically donks are botched cars, made by people antsy to show off their wealth which they clearly don't have. Lowriders can be almost as bad, and can be the case when done to a Cad or Lincoln... trying to prove something maybe? :confused: They give tasteful lowriders a bad rap.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
10-11-08, 02:11 PM
I like it when someone lowers a car a few inches, but dropping it so low it scrapes the ground is stupid as hell. Except for the whole low rider thing with the tiny midget wheels, that is a nice looking car.

joee5
10-11-08, 09:19 PM
YUK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Me no like.

gfxdave99
10-11-08, 10:33 PM
Honestly it looks like its really nice shape and theres no ghetto graphics or anything like that. As far as lowriders go it looks classy IMHO

N0DIH
10-11-08, 11:05 PM
I don't mind lowered, even scraping (not for me, but I have seen some done well). I just can't stand the 13's on it, looks silly. Some sharp 17's like the Impy SS wheels on the 90-92's looks awesome. Especially with that color ride.

77CDV
10-12-08, 12:50 AM
Poor thing. Looks like it's a sinking ship in that position. Just missing the lifeboats pulling away.

My_favorite_Brougham
10-12-08, 03:30 PM
And I'm sure if the Titanic didn't sink and ruin the name, the name 'Titanic' would have been used as a model name at some point in time. :D

ryannel2003
10-12-08, 04:09 PM
I've been browsing these forums for the first time since joining, and understand why you all hate the modifications. There are a few Brougham's in my area that look absolutely terrible, but none like this monstrosity:

Terrible (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=250242696&dealer_id=63174761&car_year=1991&model=BROUGH&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=CAD&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=28562&advanced=&end_year=2009&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=427)

Please view with caution.

EndlessRyd
10-13-08, 12:50 PM
Hey All,
Dont take this the wrong way... People are free to do whatever they want to their cars, but I cant stand to see a Cadillac with rims, crazy paint, and $90 worth of stick on Auto Zone chrome shit plastered on it. I have a mint cond. 88 Brougham and get comments on it everytime I drive it. People leave me notes on the windshield that they want to buy it. I really think more people can appreciate the car as it rolled off the assembly line, rather than customized. It seems then only the one person can really like it is the owner. Personally, In my view.... and I from a small town in "fly-over" America... always hated the city, so I might be wrong on this... but this is how I always thought of cars with rims, or lowered etc... These cars can usually be found in economically depressed areas of the country, so I have always equated these cars with being poor. Even though they cost a good bit of money to do up. Again... dont take this the wrong way... but I work in the Auto Repo business, and every time I get a Cadillac in... It could be a $70,000 Escalade most of the time it has oversized rims on it... one of them (usually more) are bent and wont hold air, and the radios are cut out of them. They usually re-sell at auction at about $30,000. With out the mods It would probably fetch another $10,000. So maybe Im just a small-town closed minded person, but I just dont get it.
Mike

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
10-13-08, 02:04 PM
I've been browsing these forums for the first time since joining, and understand why you all hate the modifications. There are a few Brougham's in my area that look absolutely terrible, but none like this monstrosity:

Terrible (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=250242696&dealer_id=63174761&car_year=1991&model=BROUGH&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=CAD&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=28562&advanced=&end_year=2009&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=427)

Please view with caution.



That car would look AMAZING W/O the rims. Throw some factory Caddy Wire wheels on there and BAM! Fantastic. I love that color combo, the teal with the white top. :drool:


I would be surprised if he got more than $9K for it though.

gfxdave99
10-13-08, 02:46 PM
I've been browsing these forums for the first time since joining, and understand why you all hate the modifications. There are a few Brougham's in my area that look absolutely terrible, but none like this monstrosity:

Terrible (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=250242696&dealer_id=63174761&car_year=1991&model=BROUGH&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=CAD&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=28562&advanced=&end_year=2009&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=427)

Please view with caution.

You know honestly its only the rims that look bad on it, some smaller 20s or factory wheels and it would look solid.

ryannel2003
10-13-08, 05:59 PM
Is that an original paint color? I do happen to like it, I was just so annoyed with the rims I didn't even bother noticing the color. Now that I look at it, it's a gorgeous color. With a stock set of wheels, it would be a beautiful car.

csbuckn
10-14-08, 03:08 AM
I really like this car, too bad it probably rides like those lowered import cars. This pic is of mine. Is this too much for yall(custom rims, true dual mini turbo exhuast w/no cats, cargo springs in rear and king kong in the trunk)? Now, with me living in the poor part of the city(north mpls), see alot of customized cars but most of the cars that we get our hands on are not in the shape to restore to original. So we get nice rims for 500 bucks instead of spending thousands that we dont have on a GOOD restoration project that we cant drive during the process. Now that green thing is excessive and he knows it doesnt have 9000 miles cause those seats are worn out but the titanic, as quoted above and rightly named(it grew on me), is a decent vehicle. I just hope it doesnt have 13" rims on it. Put on some 15" trues and vogues, keep the hydros and walla. This is just my opinion and probably a decent representation of 75% of "the hood" on why we customize the halfway decent cars we get.

My_favorite_Brougham
10-14-08, 11:00 PM
Thanks for the insight, csbuckn.

Also another factor is depreciation of all cars. Whether it's a $50,000 Cadillac new or a $15,000 Chevy new, they'll both be worth only few grand several years later. And usually the used car price is not that far apart at that time. So if folks are looking at a used car, it just makes sense. Why not get a car that retailed $20-30,000 more if the price is nearly the same today!

Greg

MT-ED
10-15-08, 10:49 PM
Wow! What a passionate thread this is!

I've been reading it on and off and so far made no comment. Within the car hobby there are many genres and sub-genres. Each has its passionate defenders and staunch supporters. The majority of people here seem to favour keeping their vehicles relatively stock....at least in appearance. That's ok.

What I do read is some gross misunderstandings of specific genres and I was half prompted to write an illustrated thesis on exactly what is a Lowrider after reading Greg's misinterpretation of what one is. There's some definite education needed here on modified vehicle genres.

Greg brings up a very interesting point in his last post. Relative values on the second-hand market means that you get a whole lot more bang for your buck with a Cadillac than you do buying an old Toyota for the same money.

I met the dealer that I bought my car from at my local cruise the other week. He and I and another Cadillac owner got into a conversation about relative values. He likes selling Caddies because he has satisfied customers. He sells at reasonable prices and doesn't sell junk. They get a few years old $60,000 list, fully loaded vehicle for a tiny percentage of that.

What they also get and what every one of us here who owns a sharp looking car gets is the perception from others that you have somehow made it. They don't know that you didn't buy the car from new, so the assumption is that you have means and are possibly of a higher social standing than we really may be. That has a certain value in itself and I wonder if that is what people so staunchly defend?

If you modify a car in any highly visible way you automatically shift the association of that car and you into another bracket......so you have to be careful. Other's perception may be warped in a derogatory way that you would not wish to be viewed in.

Each genre of the modified car hobby has rules. Certain mods are acceptable, some essential to be recognized as fitting in the specific genre. Within each genre there will be people who push the envelope. People who may become trend leaders or alternatively get laughed off the street by their contempories.

Invariably, the successful leaders of style are those who have a natural sense of aesthetic. Often these are naturally artistic people. A "new trend" modification to a car may be accepted by the mainstream and may cross over into other genres of the car hobby.

I like Lowriders.

I have to qualify that. I like the idea.....but those 13" rims are just plain stupid IMO. Way too proportionally small.
With Donks, they go the other way completely. A car that was styled to look long and sleek now stands on tippy-toe like an under-tired Monster-Truck :cookoo:

One extreme accentuates certain original styling cues, the other just throws them out the window. I think that's the inherant reason people are so adamant in their disgust of the style of Donks (because style is probably a misnomer).

Every so often a car comes up that doesn't exactly fit a specific genre. These cars can sometimes create a whole new custom movement. I guess you could call these cars cross-over vehicles.

I found this picture a while ago. I personally think this car is totally bitchin'. It somehow bridges the appearance of Lowrider with that of the performance/handling parts of the "Pro-Touring" genre.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/Martin_Thoene/Custom91Cad.jpg

I'd be interested to know what people think of it.

Martin.

My_favorite_Brougham
10-15-08, 11:06 PM
MT-ED, I think you make good points. And that car looks like something right outta "Rod & Custom." :cool:
But you mentioned a misinterpretation of mine, in regard to what a Lowrider "is" - could you explain? I believe what I've mentioned is a perception of how members of car genres or even non-car people view each other and underlying trends thereof.

Greg

MT-ED
10-16-08, 10:18 AM
MT-ED, I think you make good points. And that car looks like something right outta "Rod & Custom." :cool:
But you mentioned a misinterpretation of mine, in regard to what a Lowrider "is" - could you explain? I believe what I've mentioned is a perception of how members of car genres or even non-car people view each other and underlying trends thereof.

Greg

Hehe! I anticipated this response because I figured that you're the kind of guy who wants to understand this kind of stuff.

Your statement that I referred to:


I don't really care for lowriders, and I particularly dislike them when done to 80s/90s Cadillacs. But they can be tasteful when done to the right car, say a 1958 Chevy Biscayne or 1963 Impala; even a 40s/50s Mercury if you're a 'true' lowrider (frenched headlights, plain hubcaps on wide whites, etc.).

Here's a contrast in styles. A '66 Impala lowrider:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/Martin_Thoene/0708_lrmp_12_z1966_chevrolet_impala.jpg

Try to ignore that which is blocking your view :tisk:
Nice car, but IMO visually cluttered with unnecessary pinstriping. More is more seems to be the thing. Silly disproportionate wheels.

Ok, same car model, different and modern interpretation. More of a "less is more" approach. Took these pics at my local cruise.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/Martin_Thoene/CSS_03.jpg

Modern big 'n' little billet rims, low-profile tires.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/Martin_Thoene/CSS_04.jpg

The car has air bags, so goes up and down, but it ain't no Lowrider. It has an 800hp, 504 Chevy bick-block crate motor under the hood :bouncy: It kind of fits into the "Pro-touring" genre.

Older cars that are true "Lowriders" are actually a sub-genre of that side of the hobby.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/Martin_Thoene/0703_lrmp_01_z1939_chevrolet_master.jpg

They are known as "Bombs" by the afficianados of the genre. This one has stock appearing rims and tires, but has hydraulics. More often these days wires are the accepted way to go in rim choice......

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/Martin_Thoene/0611_lrmp_13_z1951_chevrolet_deluxe.jpg

Again, with this car there's all original chrome, some add-ons and murals. More is more.

The edges start to blur with these cars when one is restored body-wize, but has other stuff going on under the skin. Let's look at Cadillacs particularly.......

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/Martin_Thoene/47_Dsc01737-vi.jpg

Is it a street-rod or a Lowrider "Bomb"? Does it have hydraulics or airbag suspension?

This one edges further into Street-Rod territory because of the (oh so nice) rims.......

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/Martin_Thoene/49Dsc07255-vi.jpg

You description of a "true" Lowrider Greg, was in fact that of a Kustom (note the 'k'). Otherwize known as a Lead Sled or Led Sled. Before the days of Polymer fillers Lead was melted into seams and stuff and then smoothed out to cover imperfections. The extensive body-mods on these cars required mucho lead in the early days.

Here is the best example you will ever see:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/Martin_Thoene/225044330_389b37b09a.jpg

This is the 1951 Mercury built for Bob Hirohata by George Barris in 1952......yes, 1952! Since then it has been something that has given inspiration to countless lovers of this modified car genre.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/Martin_Thoene/1951hirohata_merc.jpg

The chopped roof, smoothed lines, "frenched headlights, etc are all Kustom de-riguer and more of a "less is more" approach, letting the lines of the car speak for itself. Suspensions were permanently lowered back in the day, but modern airbag suspensions allow newly built cars to at least be a practical driver on rough city streets. That's why so many genres of customized cars are utilizing them these days....but they're not necessarily "Lowriders".

Here's a modern-built Mercury Sled I took a picture of a couple of years ago. You can see the influences within it........

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/Martin_Thoene/CarShow03.jpg

Both cars borrow trim pieces from other car models. This trend continues.........and I'll bring us back to kind of where this thread started. Check out the parts swopping that went on here.......

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/Martin_Thoene/0702_lrmp_01_zcadillac_fleetwood_br.jpg

They're an '81 and an '82.

Silly kiddy caster wheels :thepan:

Martin.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
10-16-08, 06:09 PM
MT-ED. Sorry, aint for me. Although I like the paint job, very simple but elegant and classy, I am not a fan of how much it has been lowered. The reason I drive a Caddy is because I am 6'4" and frankly it is down right difficult for me to get out of say, a Camaro. I am also not a fan of aftermarket wheels that are more than 1-2" bigger than the stock ones. Other than that it looks very sharp. I also have to thank you for not putting some big, gaudy chromed out grill on the front.

MT-ED
10-16-08, 06:21 PM
Working off that licence plate I would say that based on this company's other work.....

http://crashcustoms.com/#3

............the car is probably bagged, so the stance is only temporary.


Martin.

Red_October_7000
10-16-08, 07:58 PM
I detest Donks... and I can't stand 95% of lowriders. I do not mind the concept of modifying a car a bit -a nice paint job, slick rims, etc. But the problem is most of them take it too far -little tiny rims with "licorice strip" tires that look lost in wells designed for big tires, too much gold or chrome, just too frikkin' low, etc. The hydraulics seems extraneously goofy but I suppose it could be fun; but they are very hard on the car. The problem is 99% of such cars are always equipped with such tires. It's not a racial or cultural thing, too, I hated the butchery that Boyd Coddington inflicted upon so many classics just as much as I hate ricers and lowriders and donks. The cars become rolling jokes rather than what they were supposed to be. In my area, maybe 10 years ago, there seemed to be a proliferation of large-body cars that were raised a few inches and fitted with off-road tires. Didn't look too bad.

csbuckn
10-16-08, 09:20 PM
The Caddy looks good but its a tiny bit too low for me, at least two inches higher and it works. I dont like tiny rims either, outta place. Even if they were for a honda or shadow.