: Haha- Washington Times CTS-V Review



Cadillac Tony
10-10-08, 12:01 PM
An overall glowing review. The opening quote made me laugh out loud:


In an effort to duplicate the sensation of tromping on the accelerator of the new Cadillac CTS-V, you could set your hair on fire and throw yourself from the roof of a 20-story building. Yep, it's that exhilarating.

:lol:

Full review HERE (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/10/cadillacs-cts-v-likened-to-slingshot/)

Vrocks
10-10-08, 01:26 PM
:cool2:

Silverspeed
10-10-08, 04:45 PM
Where can you buy an M5 for $83,900?

Kadonny
10-10-08, 05:11 PM
Probably last years sticker or something.

MacOSR
10-11-08, 12:41 PM
Where can you buy an M5 for $83,900?

Any BMW dealer :D

MacOSR
10-11-08, 12:42 PM
Where can you buy an M5 for $83,900?

Also, all year long you have been able to get about $8k off any M5 or M6 you wanted to order. Sometimes you would have to push the dealer but a loaded M5 that stickers for $95k would come in around $86-$87k.

Cadillac Tony
10-11-08, 12:50 PM
Just keep in mind that this base $84,000 M5 comes stripped with no navigation, no parking sensors, no satellite radio, no ipod hookups, etc, etc...... I won't bother to list it all again, but BMWs and MBs make everything optional. Other than Nav, Microfiber steering wheel, Recaros, polished wheels and a sunroof, then CTS-V is pretty loaded even in base trim. All the BMW options like adaptive headlights, hard drive radio, 19" wheels and automatic with paddle shifters are included on the $60k CTS-V. :)

A loaded CTS-V to a loaded M5 is about a $25k-$28k savings.

StuJac
10-11-08, 12:51 PM
Automobile Magazine also had a very positive review of the new V. I want one so bad. It looks as great as it performs.

MacOSR
10-11-08, 02:08 PM
Just keep in mind that this base $84,000 M5 comes stripped with no navigation, no parking sensors, no satellite radio, no ipod hookups, etc, etc...... I won't bother to list it all again, but BMWs and MBs make everything optional. Other than Nav, Microfiber steering wheel, Recaros, polished wheels and a sunroof, then CTS-V is pretty loaded even in base trim. All the BMW options like adaptive headlights, hard drive radio, 19" wheels and automatic with paddle shifters are included on the $60k CTS-V. :)

A loaded CTS-V to a loaded M5 is about a $25k-$28k savings.

The M5 does come with many of the things you have outlined as options...maybe these things were in the GM salesman's brochure ;-). Not trying to say an M5 is a comparable car that is $25k more because they are different cars. But, if someone is going to compare them they really should actually look at both and see what the real options are for themselves. If you just want a CTS-V then buy one. But, if you want to truly compare the two then you really should. The build quality and overall quality of the M5 is completely different. But again, people should judge for themselves.

The options on an M5 other then HUD and radio options are luxury type options not even available on the CTS-V. A fully loaded M5 (speced to be comparable to a CTS-V) is in the upper $80's. Now, start adding some luxury leather (not the standard leather), heated steering wheel, luxury seats, power sunshades, soft close doors, comfort access, etc and you will be in the $90's.

Just wanted to make sure that you knew that a loaded M5 is completely different then a loaded CTS-V. They are different cars.

So a similarly loaded 09 M5 could be had for $80k plus tax with what dealers are selling them for right now. We really don't know what the CTS-V will cost yet. Most are guessing $60 or low $60's plus options. So, the reality is that there is about a $15k difference between an 09 M5 and an 09 CTS-V.

MacOSR
10-11-08, 02:09 PM
Just keep in mind that this base $84,000 M5 comes stripped with no navigation, no parking sensors, no satellite radio, no ipod hookups, etc, etc...... I won't bother to list it all again, but BMWs and MBs make everything optional. Other than Nav, Microfiber steering wheel, Recaros, polished wheels and a sunroof, then CTS-V is pretty loaded even in base trim. All the BMW options like adaptive headlights, hard drive radio, 19" wheels and automatic with paddle shifters are included on the $60k CTS-V. :)

A loaded CTS-V to a loaded M5 is about a $25k-$28k savings.

PS - If I do get a 2010 CTS-V Tony I will probably come to you... I appreciate your enthusiasm for it ;-)

Cadillac Tony
10-11-08, 04:08 PM
First off, I appreciate your response being level headed. Most people fly off the handle and accuse me of being "brainwashed" as soon as I point out competitive differences :lol:. I learn 90% of what I know because I'm a car nut first, salesman second- the Caddy training literature rarely tells me something I don't already know from reading about and driving my competition.

I know that M5 offers some things that the CTS-V doesn't (like HD radio and sunshades), but almost all the things I mentioned are options on the M5 (I was thinking of the 3 when I said navigation and park sensors). For a base price of $85,925, here are a list of things you have to pay extra for that are standard on the CTS-V:

-Satellite radio: $595
-iPod hookup w/USB: $400
-Comfort Access (keyless unlock and start): $1,000

So for comparison's sake, getting the M5 to the same standard equipment level as the CTS-V requires another $1,995 in options, which brings the total to $87,920- that's approximately $28,000 more than the Cadillac, which is a lot of spare change. If I had 90 grand to blow on cars, I'd rather buy a 2009 CTS-V and either a Cooper S or Cobalt SS than one M5. I know there are people that disagree, but if two cars are $28,000 apart in price, the more expensive one ought to be a much more impressive piece- the M5 is not.

I know that each one has certain features the other doesn't, but I still find the fact that they make common features like Satellite radio and keyless start optional on an $86,000 car to be ridiculous.

JEM
10-16-08, 09:28 PM
The M5 does come with many of the things you have outlined as options...


Yes, it does.


The build quality and overall quality of the M5 is completely different. But again, people should judge for themselves.


It's different, but I wouldn't say it's completely different (he says, having now replaced two window regulators in the spousal E39 540i and looking at the window moldings on his M5 that disintegrate from solar UV faster than any substance previously known to man...)

The new CTS is considerably better than the last one, and you could argue that BMW material quality has drifted downhill a bit since the E30/E32/E34 days. And, of course, the E60 and E65 dash and overall interior desigh are awful; the E90/92 was a step back in the right direction and they're getting better again, but the current CTS is still better.


So a similarly loaded 09 M5 could be had for $80k plus tax with what dealers are selling them for right now. We really don't know what the CTS-V will cost yet. Most are guessing $60 or low $60's plus options. So, the reality is that there is about a $15k difference between an 09 M5 and an 09 CTS-V.

...but you still have that buzz-bomb V10 and the clunky SMG to deal with.

wildwhl
10-18-08, 07:22 PM
I am not here, and I did not read this.

WW

MacOSR
10-20-08, 09:50 PM
Yes, it does.

It's different, but I wouldn't say it's completely different (he says, having now replaced two window regulators in the spousal E39 540i and looking at the window moldings on his M5 that disintegrate from solar UV faster than any substance previously known to man...)

The new CTS is considerably better than the last one, and you could argue that BMW material quality has drifted downhill a bit since the E30/E32/E34 days. And, of course, the E60 and E65 dash and overall interior desigh are awful; the E90/92 was a step back in the right direction and they're getting better again, but the current CTS is still better.

...but you still have that buzz-bomb V10 and the clunky SMG to deal with.

I wouldn't say that the V10 in the M5/m6 is a buzz-bomb. It is one of the most advanced NA engines ever created and has many awards.

I would also say that not just the build quality of the M5 is VERY good but when there are problems BMW certainly stands behind their cars. I have also dealt with the trim pieces that are discolored and BMW is replacing them...I didn't have to argue with them. Compare that to how Caddy (corporate) treated me with my V1 CTS-V: Interior molding pieces that popped off on their own and they said that I must have done something to do it (we all know that wasn't the case); Failing diff where they blamed me until I had my local dealer show the corporate rep. the specs and that it wasn't caused by how I drove; worn out suede on my driver seat after 14 months and they blamed how I get in and out of the car; terrible wheel hop in the winter...we now know that this was a feature ;-)

Anyhow, my point is that I want to see how caddy stands behind the V2 and how the overall quality is after 12k miles.

For me, considering a V2 for next year, I wish there was a higher quality interior for materials (leather, full leather, etc). I'm not too hip on the fuzzy interior...maybe they will give me some fuzzy dice to go with it :D Also not too sure about the layout of the instrumentation. We will see how the interior for the 2011 M5 is laid out before making the decision. I hate to compare a 5 year old interior/car to a new one although I still like the M5 interior better.

Pounder
10-21-08, 12:01 AM
I really don't care but: who is copying who?
The CTS is trying to achieve the same level of performance, comfort, fun an quality as the M5 offers, which is at the end of it's life cycle and will be replaced in 1-2 years.
Then BMW is going to set the new standard and all others will again start copying.
I like the CTS-V for it's price, but nowhere is it close in quality to BMW. But that is why you pay less!!!
What I also mis in a Cadillac is the tech toys like adaptive cruise control, front sensors and cameras, blind spot monitors etc... But maybe they have a reason not to have them as an option.

JEM
10-21-08, 12:33 AM
Then BMW is going to set the new standard and all others will again start copying.
I like the CTS-V for it's price, but nowhere is it close in quality to BMW. But that is why you pay less!!!
What I also mis in a Cadillac is the tech toys like adaptive cruise control, front sensors and cameras, blind spot monitors etc... But maybe they have a reason not to have them as an option.

There's a fundamental difference in powertrain philosophy as well, BMW lately seems to like their buzz-bomb motors. The E60's V10 makes no more useful torque or power than my E39's V8 until you get somewhere past 6000RPM. I really want better flexibility than that.

Some of the toys can be useful, but the Cadillac 'cockpit electronics' are otherwise better than the E60 BMW's. They seem to have made some fixes to the new 7er - more like what Audi's got - to move yet a bit further from iDrive, but we'll see how well it works in daily use.

As for quality, long-time Bimmerfolks would say that quality peaked with the E32 and E34 and has trended downhill since, and I'd add that interior design peaked with the E38 and E39 and has trended downhill as well. The new 7 looks like an improvement, we'll see where they go with the 5.

MacOSR
10-21-08, 10:48 AM
BMW lately seems to like their buzz-bomb motors.

The V10 in the M5/M6 is one of the most advanced motors ever produced. What makes it a "buzz-bomb motor"?

I know owners with nitrous, making insane power on stock internals with no problems for over 20,000 miles. So I don't know where this is coming from?

gothicaleigh
10-21-08, 11:25 AM
The V10 in the M5/M6 is one of the most advanced motors ever produced. What makes it a "buzz-bomb motor"?

I think he was referring to the fact that power comes on very high in the RPM range for many BMW engines, not that it was buzzy (that V10 sounds great btw). Driving a bimmer provides a whole different experience versus driving an LS car with gobs of torque very low in the range. It's a driving preference thing...


I know owners with nitrous, making insane power on stock internals with no problems for over 20,000 miles. So I don't know where this is coming from?

...on nitrous. :shifty

Vrocks
10-21-08, 12:28 PM
I really don't care but: who is copying who?
The CTS is trying to achieve the same level of performance, comfort, fun an quality as the M5 offers, which is at the end of it's life cycle and will be replaced in 1-2 years.
Then BMW is going to set the new standard and all others will again start copying.
I like the CTS-V for it's price, but nowhere is it close in quality to BMW. But that is why you pay less!!!
What I also mis in a Cadillac is the tech toys like adaptive cruise control, front sensors and cameras, blind spot monitors etc... But maybe they have a reason not to have them as an option.

Actually, your wrong. The V2 has surpassed the M5 in every performance category. It's BMW that has a benchmark to shoot for; the CTS-V.

Have you read recent reviews? For the first time in modern history, they're all saying the V2's materials and fit and finish are equal too, or superior than, the competiton (BMW, Mercedes, Lexus).

Cadillac Tony
10-21-08, 12:58 PM
Spot on, Vrocks. :thumbsup:

All the toys you mentioned, Pounder, such as Adaptive cruise, blind zone alert, front sensors and backup cameras are all available on certain Cadillac models (like the Escalade, DTS and STS). The CTS is Cadillac's entry level car, which means they have to draw a line at some point and put a ceiling on the price. If you're looking for more gadgets like blind zone alert and adaptive cruise, a more expensive model like the STS might be up your alley.

Pounder
10-21-08, 06:53 PM
Spot on, Vrocks. :thumbsup:

All the toys you mentioned, Pounder, such as Adaptive cruise, blind zone alert, front sensors and backup cameras are all available on certain Cadillac models (like the Escalade, DTS and STS). The CTS is Cadillac's entry level car, which means they have to draw a line at some point and put a ceiling on the price. If you're looking for more gadgets like blind zone alert and adaptive cruise, a more expensive model like the STS might be up your alley.

I would just like those options on the CTS-V! But who knows what the 2010 model will bring!

MacOSR
10-21-08, 10:20 PM
...on nitrous. :shifty


http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-M5-Timeslip-7809.html :sneaky:

http://www.asrengineeringinc.com/

They are also working on a twin turbo for the M5/M6 :lildevil: