: Cheap speed. In search of a stock 15 second car for less than $7,000.



I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-03-08, 11:45 AM
So let's say you want something cheap and quick, but not a beater. You wanna spend between five and seven thousand and you want a quick (15.5 seconds or faster) car....doesn't matter if it's two doors or four. What would you choose?


Here's some possible choices..

1st or 2nd generation Eclipse GS-T/GSX
1st or 2nd generation Talon TSi
Early LT1 Trans Am/Camaro
Early L67 GTP/GS
LT1 B/D Body
Mustang GT
Mark VIII
Early ETC/STS
Second generation Supra/RX-7


Me? I'd go with the Mark VIII, Turbo DSM, LT-1 F-Body or an Early Northstar Cadillac.

ryannel2003
10-03-08, 12:25 PM
'95 Cadillac Seville STS. From what I've read, the fastest of all FWD Northstar's. Plus, they're so pretty.

Brizzal
10-03-08, 12:44 PM
Early LT1 Trans Am/Camaro
Early L67 GTP/GS
LT1 B/D Body

AMGoff
10-03-08, 01:09 PM
Can you guess which one I'd pick Chad? ;)

Coma
10-03-08, 01:44 PM
Rx-7777777777!!!!!

dkozloski
10-03-08, 02:59 PM
Rx-7777777777!!!!!
I had an '87 RX-7 turbo and it would go.

gothicaleigh
10-03-08, 03:06 PM
From the choices, it's pretty obvious what I would pick given my past ownership (hey, it's a Cadillac forum, would you expect any different?). :D

If you're looking for the most fun you will ever have on four wheels in that pricerange, you will buy a BMW e30 though. Ridiculously addictive to drive.

Blackout
10-03-08, 03:16 PM
1st or 2nd generation Eclipse GS-T/GSX
1st or 2nd generation Talon TSiCrank walk. 'nuff said

Early LT1 Trans Am/CamaroNot a bad choice but not a very good DD IMO

Early L67 GTP/GSPulley swap with a CAI and exhaust will have you breathing on 13's if not in the 13's

LT1 B/D BodyI have one available!:D

Mustang GTFor $7000 your looking at the mid to late 90's body style and those things were dogs.

Mark VIIIGood choice but parts are expensive ie., doing a HID conversion will cost ya $1000, rubber molding for rear window can only be bought by buying a whole new rear window as well. Those are common issues with those cars as well as the air ride suspension but you can pick up coil over conversion kits for less then $300 if I remember correctly

Early ETC/STSHigher mileage early N* engines and the head gasket issues would be my biggest issue

Second generation Supra/RX-7Stay away from rotaries!! 2nd gen Supra might not be too bad and the aftermarket is a plenty

dkozloski
10-03-08, 03:23 PM
Crank walk. 'nuff said
Not a bad choice but not a very good DD IMO
Pulley swap with a CAI and exhaust will have you breathing on 13's if not in the 13's
I have one available!:D
For $7000 your looking at the mid to late 90's body style and those things were dogs.
Good choice but parts are expensive ie., doing a HID conversion will cost ya $1000, rubber molding for rear window can only be bought by buying a whole new rear window as well. Those are common issues with those cars as well as the air ride suspension but you can pick up coil over conversion kits for less then $300 if I remember correctly
Higher mileage early N* engines and the head gasket issues would be my biggest issue
Stay away from rotaries!! 2nd gen Supra might not be too bad and the aftermarket is a plenty
2nd Gen. rotaries are the most reliable engines ever put in a car. Fewer than 1 in a thousand owners report engine trouble of any kind and the average milage at the report is 168,000 miles.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-03-08, 03:45 PM
Crank walk. 'nuff said



Crank walk is not a problem on the early 1g's, before they switched engine designs from the 7 bolt to the 6 bolt...or visa versa. What exactly does crank walk lead too? Self destruction of the engine?


I wonder if one could get an early 300ZX turbo, VR4 or Stealth R/T Twin Turbo for near $7,000 nowadays?

Night Wolf
10-03-08, 04:02 PM
Crank walk is not a problem on the early 1g's, before they switched engine designs from the 7 bolt to the 6 bolt...or visa versa. What exactly does crank walk lead too? Self destruction of the engine?


I wonder if one could get an early 300ZX turbo, VR4 or Stealth R/T Twin Turbo for near $7,000 nowadays?

Recently posted on the zuzu site...

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?t=24504

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-03-08, 04:10 PM
The early Stealths IMO are better looking than the later ones, and the later 3000GTs IMO are better looking than the early ones. I don't like the pop-up headlights on the early ones, and those big spoilers on the 98-99s are INTENSE. But probably the best looking VR4 is the 1994-97s...when they had the regular headlights but regular sized rear end spoiler.

Playdrv4me
10-03-08, 05:41 PM
Good choice but parts are expensive ie., doing a HID conversion will cost ya $1000, rubber molding for rear window can only be bought by buying a whole new rear window as well. Those are common issues with those cars as well as the air ride suspension but you can pick up coil over conversion kits for less then $300 if I remember correctly
Higher mileage early N* engines and the head gasket issues would be my biggest issue

7000.00???!!

7k will buy you a PRISTINE 97 or even 98. A HID swap wouldn't even be necessary considering those already have the larger, NEWER HIDs anyway. The old HIDs for the 92-96 aren't that bright, theyre just a little better than the original Halogens (uncloudy of course).

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-03-08, 05:55 PM
Are these Mark VIII HID's the same stuff as the Xenons or something completely different?

I know Ian with his headlight fetish will be able to answer that.

Playdrv4me
10-03-08, 06:09 PM
Are these Mark VIII HID's the same stuff as the Xenons or something completely different?

I know Ian with his headlight fetish will be able to answer that.

:sneaky:

Yep, Xenon and "High Intensity Discharge" are exactly the same thing.... However...

In 1996, when Xenons were still in their relative infancy (BMW started using them on the 1994 750iL as an option), Ford toyed with a very unorthodox *A/C* powered HID system in the '96 Mark VIII LSC. To this day it is the *only* automotive Xenon system that has ever worked in such a way, and it was prone to serious problems. It got so bad that alot of the HID cars NEVER left the factory with the HIDs and were retro-fitted with the Halogen lenses.

In 1997, they updated to a still somewhat unusual Sylvania bulb (not the regular D1 or D2 the entire free world uses) but at least the lenses were larger, the arc was the more traditional 4300K spec, and most importantly, they operated on DC voltage.

Destroyer
10-03-08, 06:51 PM
Good choice but parts are expensive ie., doing a HID conversion will cost ya $1000, rubber molding for rear window can only be bought by buying a whole new rear window as well. Those are common issues with those cars as well as the air ride suspension but you can pick up coil over conversion kits for less then $300 if I remember correctly
Not entirely accurate. The bulbs on the '97-'98 are no longer produced and expensive to replace with used ones. On my wifes '98 I bought aftermarket HID conversion that someone on Ebay makes specifically for Mark VIII's. It cost like $120 or so and came with all necessary hardware to swap over to newer brighter bulbs that are also easy and cheap to find. Took like an hour to install and has been working flawlessly for over a year and a half now.

The back windows do the "lasagne" thing and that could be an issue if you need one. Whole back window would have to be replaced but I have found used ones in mint condition for under $300.

The air ride is an unecessary gimick IMO. The fronts on my wifes started leaking so for $400 or so I bought set of conventional coils and front struts that also lower ride height 1 1/2". Handling/looks have improved greatly and comfort is the same.

In my experience the Mark VIII's are reliable cars and I'd recommend one but take time find one in excellent condition.

Destroyer
10-03-08, 06:58 PM
Early LT1 Trans Am/Camaro
Early L67 GTP/GS
LT1 B/D Body
Mustang GT
Mark VIII
Early ETC/STS
Second generation Supra/RX-7


Me? I'd go with the Mark VIII, Turbo DSM, LT-1 F-Body or an Early Northstar Cadillac.I have experience with all the RWD V8 cars on this list. The '96-'98 GT's were turds but you can find a '99-up model for that and they were much improved with 260hp. You could land a '94-'98 Cobra for that cash too, the '96-'98 having the DOHC 4.6. Fun cars.

I owned 2 LT1 Camaro's: a '94 6spd T-top and a '95 Z28 auto convertible. Again, real reliable cars, fun to drive and pretty fast.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-03-08, 07:36 PM
The F Bodies are fun and all, but those turbo DSM's have always appealed to me. I can't really explain why.

96Fleetwood
10-03-08, 07:46 PM
1) '93-97 Acura Integra GSR / R

2) '92-96 Mercedes 400 E

3) '94-96 BMW 540i 6 speed

4) '95-97 Volvo 850 Turbo / R

... all under $7K easy

LS1Mike
10-03-08, 08:12 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___NICE-1999-PONTIAC-TRANS-AM-5-7-LS1-V8-T-TOPS-LO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ360093710031QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tr ucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360093710031&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___98-Trans-Am-LS1-T-TOPS_W0QQitemZ150299634169QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Truck sQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item150299634169&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2001-Z28-LS1-Sharp-BEST-DEAL-ON-EBAY-BUy-It-NOw_W0QQitemZ260293638995QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Trucks QQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260293638995&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

Out run the rest of them, and acutally run 13's.
Easy and cheap to fix, more reliable then all the cars you mentioned.
later.

AMGoff
10-03-08, 08:20 PM
I wonder if one could get an early 300ZX turbo, VR4 or Stealth R/T Twin Turbo for near $7,000 nowadays?

You can most certainly find a Stealth R/T Turbo for around $7K these day... there's a bunch of them on AutoTrader.

Out of your original list, it's not that big of a stretch that I would say say go for a GS... I think it offers perhaps the best all-around compromise of peformance, luxury, and versatility.

With that said, I've always had a soft spot for those Stealths... I think they're really good looking cars and with turbocharged power and AWD (and steering), the performance is hard to beat for the price.

Stoneage_Caddy
10-03-08, 09:05 PM
Remeber a C4 vette is still a bargain

now go stick your ass in some fiberglass ...

I recomend 92-95 vettes , 96 will be out of your price range 90-91 have some funkyness with the manual transmissions ....

Im still waiting for the day i can pick up a 88 35th anni edition
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/98/236996311_4329929ef1.jpg

LS1Mike
10-03-08, 09:18 PM
Remeber a C4 vette is still a bargain

now go stick your ass in some fiberglass ...

I recomend 92-95 vettes , 96 will be out of your price range 90-91 have some funkyness with the manual transmissions ....

Im still waiting for the day i can pick up a 88 35th anni edition
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/98/236996311_4329929ef1.jpg
Good Choice, I had a 91 with 700R4, was a good car with SBC goodness.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/485124532.jpg?1170620491
I miss that car.

Note: I generally don't post here now, but couldn't pass up this thread, because some of the stuff he mentioned is old and pricey to fix and would cost him more than 7000 bucks in the long run. The Diamond Star stuff comes to mind.

Destroyer
10-03-08, 10:26 PM
1) '93-97 Acura Integra GSR / R

2) '92-96 Mercedes 400 E

3) '94-96 BMW 540i 6 speed

4) '95-97 Volvo 850 Turbo / R

... all under $7K easy

All foreign too!. I wasn't paying attention as for who Chad is asking this question but if its for himself, he already has a Mercedes and is probably looking for something pretty quck, simple and cheap to maintain.

Destroyer
10-03-08, 10:29 PM
Good Choice, I had a 91 with 700R4, was a good car with SBC goodness.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/485124532.jpg?1170620491
I miss that car.

Note: I generally don't post here now, but couldn't pass up this thread, because some of the stuff he mentioned is old and pricey to fix and would cost him more than 7000 bucks in the long run. The Diamond Star stuff comes to mind.
I had an '86 Vette in absolutely showroom condition a few years back with like 27k miles. Red/grey w/black Epsilon wheels. Interior quality was bad, real bad but still a nice cozy place to be. Not very fast cause the trans always seemed to stay in each gear too long but it was a fun car and I'm glad I owned it.

Playdrv4me
10-03-08, 10:48 PM
3) '94-96 BMW 540i 6 speed


... all under $7K easy

That was a pretty good list except I'd avoid any V8 BMW from 93-95 (this includes the oddball 530i 3.0L V8)... They are known for Nikasil cylinder lining issues. It's the Northstar of BMWs *EXCEPT* there is no way to fix it for any price, motor must be junked and replaced with an alusil unit.

There are no '96 5 Series in the U.S. but there *are* '96 E38 7 Series with the corrected blocks for dirt ass cheap.

gothicaleigh
10-03-08, 11:03 PM
It's the Northstar of BMWs

:smack:

Destroyer
10-03-08, 11:22 PM
It's the Northstar of BMWs Well there's a BMW I'd avoid like the plague. Excellent analogy!.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
10-03-08, 11:44 PM
Any third gen Camaro/Firebird. You can get one in good condition with the 305 for around $2500-3000. Spend the rest of the money on a posi rear end and some easy engine upgrades (cam, maybe heads) and you have a hell of a fast car for not a lot of money.

MauiV
10-04-08, 01:47 AM
Crankwalk sux but it can also do this...

Bf_rgMg1Bfk&feature=related

This car is local here and it is BADASS

You also dont need a mullet to drive it.

Aron9000
10-04-08, 02:11 AM
For 7k, you can get a nice 98 or 99 Camaro Z28. An SS or Trans Am tends to run 2-3k more for a similar condition car. It has the almighty LS1 standard. Mine ran a 13.4@106 mph, stock as a freaking rock.

I'm trying to sell mine, priced at 7k. Its got 116k miles on it, new trans, new shocks, extra clean. Pics at www.fquick.com/aronz28

96Fleetwood
10-04-08, 08:19 AM
That was a pretty good list except I'd avoid any V8 BMW from 93-95 (this includes the oddball 530i 3.0L V8)... They are known for Nikasil cylinder lining issues. It's the Northstar of BMWs *EXCEPT* there is no way to fix it for any price, motor must be junked and replaced with an alusil unit.

There are no '96 5 Series in the U.S. but there *are* '96 E38 7 Series with the corrected blocks for dirt ass cheap.


I looked at three of them already and all of them had the motor replaced with a new Alusil at some point of their life under BMW factory warranty. So I figured most of them had that already corrected and it wasn't an issue?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-04-08, 10:37 AM
1) '93-97 Acura Integra GSR / R

2) '92-96 Mercedes 400 E

3) '94-96 BMW 540i 6 speed

4) '95-97 Volvo 850 Turbo / R

... all under $7K easy


All nice cars, but a little too luxurious & complicated for me personally, but they'd make a great sleeper, aside from the Integra GSR/ Type R, which would make for a great theft insurance claim. :D


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___NICE-1999-PONTIAC-TRANS-AM-5-7-LS1-V8-T-TOPS-LO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ360093710031QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tr ucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360093710031&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___98-Trans-Am-LS1-T-TOPS_W0QQitemZ150299634169QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Truck sQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item150299634169&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2001-Z28-LS1-Sharp-BEST-DEAL-ON-EBAY-BUy-It-NOw_W0QQitemZ260293638995QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Trucks QQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260293638995&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

Out run the rest of them, and acutally run 13's.
Easy and cheap to fix, more reliable then all the cars you mentioned.
later.

Gosh, you really can't go wrong with an SBC powered F Body in this type of stuff. They've got the power, the acceleration, the handling, the looks, the reputation. I'd actually take one over a vette because it's cheaper to get into, cheaper to own and offers four seats.


You can most certainly find a Stealth R/T Turbo for around $7K these day... there's a bunch of them on AutoTrader.

Out of your original list, it's not that big of a stretch that I would say say go for a GS... I think it offers perhaps the best all-around compromise of peformance, luxury, and versatility.

With that said, I've always had a soft spot for those Stealths... I think they're really good looking cars and with turbocharged power and AWD (and steering), the performance is hard to beat for the price.

I'd have to say of the sports cars I listed, the VR4 is my favorite, but between an early Stealth R/T TT and an LS1/LT1 Camaro coupe, it'd be a very tough choice... The Regal GS is a great sleeper though, and cheap as heck to own. I'd have to say out of the sedans listed, the early N* STS is top choice, but you'd have to find one that's been timeserted already, or just pray. But out of all the luxury cars I listed, I'd go with an early Mark VIII, just because it's so sleek, almost as quick as an early N*, but highly modifiable, not to mention it's a RWD coupe, which makes it inherintly sportier than any sedan from the get-go.


Any third gen Camaro/Firebird. You can get one in good condition with the 305 for around $2500-3000. Spend the rest of the money on a posi rear end and some easy engine upgrades (cam, maybe heads) and you have a hell of a fast car for not a lot of money.

I suppose if it was the Tuned Port Injected 305 it'd be OK, but that TBI 305 in my friend's brother's '92 Camaro RS is a dog for a V8 Camaro. Ideally, if I was going 3rd gen, I'd find myself a real nice 1991-92 Trans Am GTA with the TPI 350 and 700R4.


Not that I'm in the market or anything, I just like to think about what I'd buy if I had excess cash.

96Fleetwood
10-04-08, 11:18 AM
I wasn't suggesting the list I put up, just merely adding a few that were left out.

If you want my opinion, I say go ahead and mod the S320. Get rid of that leveling suspension and put a set of Eibachs/H&R springs with Bilsteins.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/548002

Check that out. It won't get you into the 15s, but the suspension and wheels would make it handle much better.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-04-08, 11:30 AM
Nice car, but the S320 stays stock. I love her for what she is. If I wanted a faster car, I'd have gone for the V8 W140 or E38. If I wanted a handler, I'd have gone for the E38. :)

LS1Mike
10-04-08, 01:56 PM
Nice car, but the S320 stays stock. I love her for what she is. If I wanted a faster car, I'd have gone for the V8 W140 or E38. If I wanted a handler, I'd have gone for the E38. :)

One thing, which you most likely thought of already is the older it is the more problems harder to get parts, yada yada.
Big thing is most of the car you are looking at will have been driven "Spiritedly" Perhaps in some cased hammered the dog shit out of.:thumbsup:
Cars with timming belts and large turbos and extra drive wheels will be a larger hassle then your standard RWD SBC/SBF. Just my experience.
I recently got picked up an 85 Lebaron GTS Turbo from the original owner with a mere 120,000 miles on it for 800 bucks for winter. I did some small stuff and ran the boost up to 14 PSI and just touched 14.70.
Just depends on what you want. You want something to play with?
GO CHEAP. Daily Driver? Take the time spend a little extra Cash.
Cleanest 23 year old Lebaron you will ever see.
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/23601190986.jpg?1221410703
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/23601190987.jpg?1221410704
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/23601190983.jpg?1221410700
Good luck in your quest young Jedi, go cheap because chances are unless the driver just drove it easy you know something will have to be fixed.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-04-08, 02:00 PM
Yeah, and it's not easy or cheap to find a mint, low mile, old lady owned car of this sort. Nice Turbo Chrysler, I knew you always had a thing for those.....nice to see ya around again.

Stoneage_Caddy
10-04-08, 07:25 PM
lol , its a twin to my first car ....awesome find ...

Night Wolf
10-04-08, 07:57 PM
All nice cars, but a little too luxurious & complicated for me personally, but they'd make a great sleeper, aside from the Integra GSR/ Type R, which would make for a great theft insurance claim. :D



Gosh, you really can't go wrong with an SBC powered F Body in this type of stuff. They've got the power, the acceleration, the handling, the looks, the reputation. I'd actually take one over a vette because it's cheaper to get into, cheaper to own and offers four seats.



I'd have to say of the sports cars I listed, the VR4 is my favorite, but between an early Stealth R/T TT and an LS1/LT1 Camaro coupe, it'd be a very tough choice... The Regal GS is a great sleeper though, and cheap as heck to own. I'd have to say out of the sedans listed, the early N* STS is top choice, but you'd have to find one that's been timeserted already, or just pray. But out of all the luxury cars I listed, I'd go with an early Mark VIII, just because it's so sleek, almost as quick as an early N*, but highly modifiable, not to mention it's a RWD coupe, which makes it inherintly sportier than any sedan from the get-go.



I suppose if it was the Tuned Port Injected 305 it'd be OK, but that TBI 305 in my friend's brother's '92 Camaro RS is a dog for a V8 Camaro. Ideally, if I was going 3rd gen, I'd find myself a real nice 1991-92 Trans Am GTA with the TPI 350 and 700R4.


Not that I'm in the market or anything, I just like to think about what I'd buy if I had excess cash.

Save for a house?

Mark0101
10-04-08, 08:20 PM
I don't get why you would want an early N* instead of a 00+ N* aside from the fact that the early ones are faster. You wouldn't have to worry about HG (at least not that much as the early N*).

LS1Mike
10-04-08, 08:24 PM
Well Chad I read from time to time and sometimes...I get mad...I still owe you an apology...So I am sorry.

At any rate. The VR4/DSM stuff is cool I like them too. but when compared to an LS1 F-body, a LT1 F-body with Opti even, a Mustang or GS/GTP they are a maintenance pig.
And when they break, say compared to even my Trans Am, they are PRICEY!!

LS1Mike
10-04-08, 08:24 PM
lol , its a twin to my first car ....awesome find ...

I knew you would like it. You can't believe how clean it is. Makes me feel like the Trans Am is dirty and I keep it spotless.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
10-05-08, 12:14 AM
Nice car, but the S320 stays stock. I love her for what she is. If I wanted a faster car, I'd have gone for the V8 W140 or E38. If I wanted a handler, I'd have gone for the E38. :)

I like how you think. Same thing with my car. :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-05-08, 12:28 PM
Save for a house?

Yeah, that's the next big move, but ugh, I can't shake the desire for a 2nd car. Damnit!!!!!


I don't get why you would want an early N* instead of a 00+ N* aside from the fact that the early ones are faster. You wouldn't have to worry about HG (at least not that much as the early N*).

The early ones feel so much more "alive". They're not as heavy, they're quicker, they're louder, the steering and suspension is less isolated, they look sharper IMO, and lastly....they're cheaper!


Well Chad I read from time to time and sometimes...I get mad...I still owe you an apology...So I am sorry.

At any rate. The VR4/DSM stuff is cool I like them too. but when compared to an LS1 F-body, a LT1 F-body with Opti even, a Mustang or GS/GTP they are a maintenance pig.
And when they break, say compared to even my Trans Am, they are PRICEY!!

No problem Mike, water under the bridge. Anyways, yeah, the American cars definitely are cheaper to maintain than the Japanese ones, but then again, the Japanese ones do offer a lot of different, innovative features, such as four wheel steering, a spoiler and front air dam that adjust automatically based on speed, all wheel drive, electronic climate control, etc etc, but yeah, in the long run, the F Body or Mustang will be cheaper to own. I'd assume the VR4 or 300ZX TT would have maintenance costs more similar to a Corvette..

LS1Mike
10-05-08, 12:54 PM
Chad, I think in most cases you will find Corvette maitenance is similar if not the same as the F-body. Where are you going to see a difference is the Suspension and Brakes. The Drive train parts and igintion system are almost identical and aftermarket parts cost the same when you are talkng about heads, header, clutches and so on and so forth.

Night Wolf
10-05-08, 01:32 PM
C4 Corvettes are really starting to interest me, especially the '92-'95? range....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-05-08, 02:25 PM
Mike, but don't the C5 and C6 Corvettes require full synthetic? Do the LS-1 F Bodies require that as well?

LS1Mike
10-05-08, 03:20 PM
Mike, but don't the C5 and C6 Corvettes require full synthetic? Do the LS-1 F Bodies require that as well?

I know the book says that, but the engines are identical except for cam specs in the C5 LS1 VS the F-Body LS1(and I have to check on that, I think some F-cars and Y-bodies even got the same cam), The LS6 for that matter is very close to the LS1 and would not suffer if you used a good quality Dino oil, The F-body does not require Synthetic per the manual.

I think it was just a marketing ploy myself. I know plenty of guys that I race with that run Dino in their C5s. I run Amsoil in the WS6 because it is better then Dino at temp and will last longer in extreme conditions and well I have some extra cash in motor so 5.70 a quart of Amsoil VS 3 bucks a quart for Castrol or Valvoline is not a huge deal to me.

The C6 Manual says Sythetic as well, I suppose for warranty and longevity you should run it.
I run Sythetic in everything except the RV.

Playdrv4me
10-06-08, 03:04 AM
I don't get why you would want an early N* instead of a 00+ N* aside from the fact that the early ones are faster. You wouldn't have to worry about HG (at least not that much as the early N*).

Far as I'm concerned "not as much" pretty much nullifies the whole argument. You're still gonna have it in the back of your mind, so might as well find a faster one that's been timeserted if that's what you really want. Not to mention some people are partial to the older designs.

LS1Mike
10-06-08, 03:27 AM
C4 Corvettes are really starting to interest me, especially the '92-'95? range....

LT1 cars, they perform well for even by todays standards. You can pick up nice clean examples cheap now a days. The are good for low to mid 13's depending on options and transmission. If you don't mind doing an opti once and while, you still get good ole' SBC reliabilty in a clean nimble package while knocking on the door of 12's for only a little more cash invested.

Jesda
10-06-08, 07:55 AM
What you want is a golf cart with a crapton of laptop batteries.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-06-08, 08:15 AM
Jesda, where's that 2nd STS in your sig pic from?

Playdrv4me
10-06-08, 12:31 PM
Jesda, where's that 2nd STS in your sig pic from?

That's his brothers new '92.

Night Wolf
10-06-08, 04:10 PM
Bonneville SSEi are cheap now, get a last gen for that price... and the mid-90's style for like $3k in good shape.

I still don't think getting over 20 grand in debt on cars is a good move.... save it for a down payment on a house....

Playdrv4me
10-06-08, 04:16 PM
If this Chad is the same Chad who was freaking out over his Mercedes payment several months ago, you don't have to worry about him getting 7k more in car debt rick ;) If he's gonna do this I'm sure he's gonna do it with saved cash.

I'm not gonna say it's the smartest move, but I'd be the pot calling the kettle black if I denounced it :D

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-06-08, 04:22 PM
It would be with saved cash, when I have some lying around, after I pay off the Mercedes and get a house....provided I don't get engaged in the meantime.

Blackout
10-06-08, 05:21 PM
Just get a 240SX and mod up it's KA24DE or if you want to have some real fun do a SR20DET or a RB26DETT swap:bouncy:

jey
10-07-08, 10:49 AM
$7k? Yeah as you can see tons of options. Me? I'd chose a 2002 WRX if I was in a practical mood. A C4 'Vette if I really felt like getting a toy.

Night Wolf
10-18-08, 02:40 PM
I think I'm gonna have to go ahead and have to say 6cyl BMW E30 now, just don't ruin it with an automatic. 2-door, 4-door (which I think looks better then 2) or convertible. Hardtops can be found in good shape for $2-3k.... while the E30 may not offer the pure speed that other cars may, the whole driving experience is just awesome, still a stock 15s car tho.

*edit* I just did a quick search in you area Chad and found some of these:

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/cto/881156745.html

Don't let the mileage fool ya... really not that important on these cars

Then I saw this.... Noelle's sister!

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/cto/856236862.html

It's an automatic which for me would be an automatic no, though a 5spd can always be a future swap.... however besides the new soft top, they also have a hardtop for it (which fits on the car when the soft top is down and put away) and that alone is a good selling point as finding one is hard and they are pricey when you can. This one has the Ellipsoid headlights... looks to be in good shape and $2,100obo? probably get the thing for $1,800 or less! '87 was the first year for the E30 convertible, although the E30 came out in the US in '84, but several changes were made to all E30's in '87 including the newer fuel injection system.

CadillacSTS42005
10-18-08, 03:22 PM
i just sealed the deal on a 96 Z/28 Auto T-Tops 109K for 4,400
CLEAN all around Black with Tan interior
only thing wrong is a missing seat belt bracket for the seat, and a slight tick on a cold start (sticky lifter)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-18-08, 03:28 PM
I suppose I could drive an E30 to see the joys in it. :D

Night Wolf
10-18-08, 07:39 PM
I suppose I could drive an E30 to see the joys in it. :D

There ya go!

Early 318's had the really old M10, very low on power. Newer 318's have the M42, which is the most modern enigne to be put in an E30, it's DOHC, coil on plug ignition etc... I drove a '92 318i convertible and was honestly impressed with it's performance, much like the 2.5, the 1.8 developed great power for it's age/size. They are known to get mid-30's MPG also All 325's have the M20, however 325e (for economy) is actually a 2.7 and is made for more low end power and dosen't rev as high, but gets better MPG. "is" models are a little more sporty with limited slip, I think a firmer suspension and some extra aero effects. For me, I wanted an inline-six, and like the engine. I also wanted the boost in power, but also the 318's were not as well optioned as the 325's and that was a biggie for me... no sport interior, no fog lights, no check panel, 6 button OBC (basically clock and outside temp) no cruise control and a couple other things... some of the missing items are easy to install, others are not... for me, especially on a car that will be used on the highway, cruise control is a must. Otherwise a late 318 is a good consideration, I dunno, it's probably in the 16's but when I was driving that one, I didn't care, it was really fun. Also from what I've read, the 318 is driven differentlt then the 325, the 6cyl produces decent power at any RPM, whereas the 4cyl preferred to be revved up more, but thats why alot of people like them too, some say they are more fun to drive. Also they weigh less and handle better since less engine sticks out past the front wheels. A late E30 318 2/4-door would make a pretty sweet daily driver while still getting high 20's in town and mid 30's highway MPG.... I'd say about the most fun you'd have getting good gas mileage.

Which ever one you drive.... just make sure it's a 5spd ;) :)

hueterm
10-18-08, 09:23 PM
I don't see how you could beat an old Mustang GT, Camaro, or Firebird for the money....in terms of raw speed.

However, you should go find a '96-'99 3800 S/C Riviera. Give up a little bit of speed for a MUCH nicer car.

I bought mine for $7000 and sold it for $7000 (and didn't put too much work into it over the almost 2 years I had it).

(If I'd known how much $$ I was going to have to dump into the ETC -- I NEVER would have gotten rid of the Riv...)

And then my parents go and wreck it (but that's another story...).

Destroyer
10-19-08, 09:23 PM
I don't see how you could beat an old Mustang GT, Camaro, or Firebird for the money....in terms of raw speed.

However, you should go find a '96-'99 3800 S/C Riviera. Give up a little bit of speed for a MUCH nicer car.

I bought mine for $7000 and sold it for $7000 (and didn't put too much work into it over the almost 2 years I had it).

(If I'd known how much $$ I was going to have to dump into the ETC -- I NEVER would have gotten rid of the Riv...)

And then my parents go and wreck it (but that's another story...).I like the Bimmer Rick picked better and I'd take it over a butt ugly Riviera anyday!.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-19-08, 09:37 PM
As random as a comparison that is, I'd take the Riviera. I like the design, the "awesome in every capacity" engine, the levels of luxury, the handling/ride compromise. Sure, it's not German, but it's as good as Buick got. :)

CadillacSTS42005
10-19-08, 09:39 PM
and a crap load cheaper to maintain than a bimmer

imho go LT1 short of opti they are good brute power with very low maintenance...

you have a big lux sedan so go for the opposite and get a small sport coupe

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-19-08, 09:47 PM
I FINALLY got to drive Brian's '94 Brougham today, and without even "getting on it", I could feel the immense and instantaneous torque the LT1 provides. Acceleration is effortless and silent. After driving that and then Ruthie's 1993 deVille, my Benz really showed it's lack of low end torque. I miss having a V8.

CadillacSTS42005
10-19-08, 09:51 PM
so isnt the purpose of this thread is to buy one?
lol

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-19-08, 09:52 PM
Yeah, if I had an extra $7,000 to throw around and a house with garage to store it in! :histeric:

Night Wolf
10-19-08, 09:58 PM
As random as a comparison that is, I'd take the Riviera. I like the design, the "awesome in every capacity" engine, the levels of luxury, the handling/ride compromise. Sure, it's not German, but it's as good as Buick got. :)

It depends on why you want the car.

I recently test drove a superchaged '98 Riv....

It feels just like every other fullsize luxury 90's GM car.... not that it's a bad thing though, but... just felt very similar to my fathers '99 Grand Prix GTP, Northstar Caddys and even my '93 Coupe in some ways... just the GM feel with driving and how it is setup and stuff.

However, would I take one over an E30? like I said, it depends. Back when I got my Town Car it was between the last gen Riv and the TC. If I wanted a roomy, comfortable and quiet car for roadtrips (reason for the TC) then I would take a Riv over the E30... but for anything else... it would be E30.

There is no comparison really, the E30 is a drivers car, it involves you, it is fun and addicting to drive... in comparison the Riv is boring. Not to put it down in any way, it is pretty darn quick when supercharged and (IMO) looks awesome inside and out.... but it really would depend on what you want in a car. For me, cars with automatics are just boring, they don't involve me enough. I don't mind the automatic in the Lincoln as it is/was the highway car... but at the same time now, since I've gotten the BMW, I haven't even started the Lincoln up.... really the only reason I would choose to drive it over the BMW is if I needed/wanted more passenger room, or just to be shut off from the outside world when driving.

Since you've already got the W140 benz which would make the Riv look like a toy, why not get something sorta oppisite of what you've got? 2 similar luxury cars IMO become dull afterawhile, been there done that... but something like a manual trans E30 (or f-body or Mustang etc...) and your Benz... you've got very different cars that would both be awesome in their own right


and a crap load cheaper to maintain than a bimmer

Depends on the Bimmer. New or old? I don't know anything about the new ones, but the E30 is surprisingly pretty darn easy to work on.... some parts are more expensive, but overall, I can fix and maintain my old BMW far cheaper then someone with a newer economy car would if they had to pay shop labor costs. Even so, if you can work on cars yourself, the cost of ownership on any of these "normal" (non exotic/supercar) cars is really not a big deal, in comparison, paying shop labor costs that are almost, or more then $100/hr will get expensive no matter what it is.

ryannel2003
10-19-08, 09:58 PM
Whatta bunch of yentas.... I say get a '95 Eldorado or Seville STS and call it a day. :thepan: Make sure it's been timeserted or had regular coolant changes though!

Mark0101
10-20-08, 12:28 AM
Since you've already got the W140 benz which would make the Riv look like a toy, why not get something sorta oppisite of what you've got? 2 similar luxury cars IMO become dull afterawhile, been there done that... but something like a manual trans E30 (or f-body or Mustang etc...) and your Benz... you've got very different cars that would both be awesome in their own right




I know what you mean. I have a Lincoln and now I just want a small shity car that I can give hell to like a toyota or some type of economy car. In your case you still have two very nice cars.:thumbsup:

Playdrv4me
10-20-08, 05:36 AM
and a crap load cheaper to maintain than a bimmer


LOLOLOLOL That's funny Jason. You can keep an E30 running on bailing wire and a pack of gum.

ryannel2003
10-20-08, 08:21 AM
Unfortunately that's what my Seville was assembled with.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-20-08, 11:42 AM
Since you've already got the W140 benz which would make the Riv look like a toy, why not get something sorta oppisite of what you've got? 2 similar luxury cars IMO become dull afterawhile, been there done that... but something like a manual trans E30 (or f-body or Mustang etc...) and your Benz... you've got very different cars that would both be awesome in their own right

Yeah, you've got a point there, and I could see it going in either direction. I've got my favorite luxury car of all time, and any other luxury car won't have that special feel to me, but at least it'll be faster. On the other hand, a cheap sports car, like an older Camaro Z28/Formula or perhaps even a VR4 or Talon TSi would be the polar opposite of the S Class, but it wouldn't look right seeing the two of them parked in a garage together or on your insurance card together...they just don't make good garage mates...it's not natural. You're not likely to see a new S550 parked next to a 2010 Camaro SS in a garage in the nice end of town, but who knows..

It would feel much more natural to have like a 3 Series Coupe (E46) or an old 944/928 parked next to an S Class, but that's an awful lot of German engineered stress on the ol' bank account lol.

hueterm
10-20-08, 01:21 PM
ETC or Riv. Or, get that older 3-Series in coupe form.

jey
10-20-08, 02:58 PM
You're not likely to see a new S550 parked next to a 2010 Camaro SS in a garage in the nice end of town, but who knows.

I know someone who has a white S500. The other car in his garage is a red Corvette. I think previous to the S500 he had a white STS, and he had a white Brougham before that even.

Night Wolf
10-20-08, 03:51 PM
Yeah, you've got a point there, and I could see it going in either direction. I've got my favorite luxury car of all time, and any other luxury car won't have that special feel to me, but at least it'll be faster. On the other hand, a cheap sports car, like an older Camaro Z28/Formula or perhaps even a VR4 or Talon TSi would be the polar opposite of the S Class, but it wouldn't look right seeing the two of them parked in a garage together or on your insurance card together...they just don't make good garage mates...it's not natural. You're not likely to see a new S550 parked next to a 2010 Camaro SS in a garage in the nice end of town, but who knows..

It would feel much more natural to have like a 3 Series Coupe (E46) or an old 944/928 parked next to an S Class, but that's an awful lot of German engineered stress on the ol' bank account lol.

Your joking about the whole be seen next to each other thing... right? I mean... who cares, if you enjoy the cars then that's all. Who cares about portraying a certain image to your neighbors? Anyway, chances are, most people that are in fact into the whole "image" thing are usually in a boatload of debt to keep that image, for me, I'd rather drive an old beat up car that is paid off then be making payments on some expensive car I would never otherwise be able to afford. Which is why I bought a nearly 20-year old BMW that needs work instead of the new Saturn Sky Redline.... as far as I am concerned, the old BMW is every bit as awesome as the Sky, in fact to me, I like it more, and I bought it with what would be otherwise equal to the sales tax on that new Sky.

Back when I had 3 cars in high school, the '79 Sedan DeVille, '89 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight and '93 Coupe DeVille.... yes, they were all different in their own right, but really they were all the same, and thats why I grew tired of that type of car. Now, with my 3 vehicles being so very different, it just keeps everything fresh for me, I can't say which one is "better" because they all have good and bad points. But by driving each one, makes me want the other more, so it works out well. Who would think an old Lincoln, older Isuzu and even older BMW have anything in common? But I like them all.... interestingly though, they are each pretty darn reliable in their own right and are known to go on a long time with less then average maintenance, so I would imagine the way I keep my cars maintained, they've got plenty of life left.

But for me, if I wanted 2 cars, and one of them was already a fancy luxury car, then the other would other be a 4x4 off-road truck or a sports car (with a manual trans in either case) For me, I chose the sports car thing over building up a 4x4 simply because there is no place around here to really go off-road, if there was, then it would be different.

Blackout
10-20-08, 04:03 PM
I thought the point of this thread was to get you a cheap sporty car but yet everyone is recommending luxury cars

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-20-08, 05:01 PM
Image matters to me. Simple as that.

Playdrv4me
10-20-08, 05:02 PM
ETC or Riv. Or, get that older 3-Series in coupe form.

The E30 coupes are kind of yucky. The lines just dont match up right. Sedan or Convertible as far as Im concerned.

There *is* always that 1991 560SEC of course... :sneaky: They can be made PLENTY sporty and there's a huge aftermarket for them. However, finding an unmaintained example will eat you out of house and home.

96Fleetwood
10-20-08, 05:11 PM
There *is* always that 1991 560SEC of course... :sneaky: They can be made PLENTY sporty and there's a huge aftermarket for them. However, finding an unmaintained example will eat you out of house and home.

I am in Miami right now teaching a 4 week course... anyways, one of the Pulmonologists pulled up to the hospital today in a gorgeous anthracite 560 SEC.

I walked up to him and we started chatting cars and he offered to let me drive it to lunch tomorrow if it doesn't rain! It is a *MINT* 1989 560 SEC with 64K original miles. He has owned it for the last 12 years. I told him about my old '89 560 SEL that was midnight blue with palomino and how it was expensive to maintain as a daily driver. He told me he spent $4,000 in the last year alone on his SEC and it gets driven about 2K/year.

That 560 SEC stood out among all the Continental GTs, 911s, S550s, in the parking garage. Those w126 cars have a presence about them that almost no other car compare to, no matter what shape they are in.

Destroyer
10-20-08, 09:14 PM
That 560 SEC stood out among all the Continental GTs, 911s, S550s, in the parking garage. Those w126 cars have a presence about them that almost no other car compare to, no matter what shape they are in.
Its true, they are timeless and still manage to look expensive after all these years.

hueterm
10-20-08, 09:18 PM
I am in Miami right now teaching a 4 week course... anyways, one of the Pulmonologists pulled up to the hospital today in a gorgeous anthracite 560 SEC.

I walked up to him and we started chatting cars and he offered to let me drive it to lunch tomorrow if it doesn't rain! It is a *MINT* 1989 560 SEC with 64K original miles. He has owned it for the last 12 years. I told him about my old '89 560 SEL that was midnight blue with palomino and how it was expensive to maintain as a daily driver. He told me he spent $4,000 in the last year alone on his SEC and it gets driven about 2K/year.

That 560 SEC stood out among all the Continental GTs, 911s, S550s, in the parking garage. Those w126 cars have a presence about them that almost no other car compare to, no matter what shape they are in.

That's why I'm going to get one one of these days...

Destroyer
10-20-08, 09:29 PM
That's why I'm going to get one one of these days...
You have more taste than I gave you credit for. :D

hueterm
10-20-08, 09:58 PM
All I need is my annual mileage to go down to the point to where I don't need 3 cars to dump 10-15K each on...

ShadowLvr400
10-27-08, 05:36 PM
You know, I can't believe the Impala SS (94-96) wasn't listed. Same with the Roadmaster or Caprice with the LT1. Heck, even the Fleetwood with the tow package is right there. Also, I didn't see the Mustang, the Crown Vic, the little Cobalt, Any of the VW GTi's, no Subie, no Lancer, etc. I think you left a heck of a lot of stuff out.

hueterm
10-27-08, 09:19 PM
Too much $$$$, unless it has well into 6 figures of miles and/or is trashed. He wanted under $7000.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-27-08, 11:47 PM
Well, one big mark against those turbo DSM's....

I have a friend with a '91 Talon TSi, and since he bought it over three years ago, it's always been questionable at best when it comes to reliability, in pretty much all aspects, especially the motor though. Well I got a phone call from him this afternoon, telling me that he finally blew the engine. Apparently he downshifted at a reasonable speed from 3rd to 2nd, he heard a popping noise, then a final thunk and the motor quit. Now he says it turns over but won't fire.

MauiV
10-28-08, 12:20 PM
Its an 18 year old car that has more than likely been beat on for the vast majority of its life. Id say it got its moneys worth. Thats like buying a 1987 Buick GN with 180,000 miles (most of which are probably 1/4 mile at a time) and bitching when the motor dies.

240SX with LSx conversions are all the rage around here right now.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-28-08, 01:04 PM
Do those have a timing belt or chain? Because I can guarantee you it's never had the belt done, as long as he's owned it.

jey
10-28-08, 01:43 PM
You know, I can't believe the Impala SS (94-96) wasn't listed. Same with the Roadmaster or Caprice with the LT1. Heck, even the Fleetwood with the tow package is right there. Also, I didn't see the Mustang, the Crown Vic, the little Cobalt, Any of the VW GTi's, no Subie, no Lancer, etc. I think you left a heck of a lot of stuff out.

(raises hand) I said the WRX. The EVO is way over $7k though, unless you're talking about some older grey market vehicle.


$7k? Yeah as you can see tons of options. Me? I'd chose a 2002 WRX if I was in a practical mood. A C4 'Vette if I really felt like getting a toy.

Night Wolf
10-28-08, 05:01 PM
Well, one big mark against those turbo DSM's....

I have a friend with a '91 Talon TSi, and since he bought it over three years ago, it's always been questionable at best when it comes to reliability, in pretty much all aspects, especially the motor though. Well I got a phone call from him this afternoon, telling me that he finally blew the engine. Apparently he downshifted at a reasonable speed from 3rd to 2nd, he heard a popping noise, then a final thunk and the motor quit. Now he says it turns over but won't fire.

lol..... a joke right?


Its an 18 year old car that has more than likely been beat on for the vast majority of its life. Id say it got its moneys worth. Thats like buying a 1987 Buick GN with 180,000 miles (most of which are probably 1/4 mile at a time) and bitching when the motor dies.

Really, it's an old car..... the suspension in my 1990 BMW is trashed... but am I going to go and say BMW builds a crappy car and I am never buying one again? That would be quite foolish. Old cars need work, old cars that are driven hard, not maintained as they should be, or better yet.... both.... break more and need more work.

With any used car, usually as they get to about 10years old, and especially nearing 20 years old as a daily driver, or atleast a driver.... it's reliability is more determined by the way it's been maintained and driven more then anything. If there was some major design flaw with the car, it would have failed already, not ~18years and 100k+ with being driven hard.... example? How many HT4100 Cadillacs do you see for sale, with the exception of stored away garage queens.... in comparison, look up similar year MB and BMW and you'll find quite a few... usually with 300k+.

Anyway, it sounds like your friend trashed his own engine. If he downshifted into 2nd going too fast, quite possible he over-revved the engine.... in a manual transmission car there is nothing to stop the engine from redlining (or going way beyond) when downshifting. Fuel cutoffs don't do anything as the engine is being driven by the trans already, and most all manuals have a lockout for 1st gear if you are going too fast, but not the other gears.


Do those have a timing belt or chain? Because I can guarantee you it's never had the belt done, as long as he's owned it.

I would take a wild guess and say it's a belt, but I don't know a darn thing about those cars.... reguardless, if it failed, the engine would not be able to crank as you said it is.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-28-08, 05:37 PM
He said he downshifted at a "reasonable speed", and he might have even said it was in a parking lot, but then he later said it was stuck on the side of a road and needed a tow to get it home. Well Taylor has a history of telling white lies in regards to anything, so for all I know (and I suspect) that he powershifted from 3rd to 2nd and he kissed it bye. He's also notorious for being lazy when it comes to proper car care.

Night Wolf
10-28-08, 06:48 PM
He said he downshifted at a "reasonable speed", and he might have even said it was in a parking lot, but then he later said it was stuck on the side of a road and needed a tow to get it home. Well Taylor has a history of telling white lies in regards to anything, so for all I know (and I suspect) that he powershifted from 3rd to 2nd and he kissed it bye. He's also notorious for being lazy when it comes to proper car care.

so an already 15 year old car lasted 3 years of this..... i'd say it did well.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-28-08, 07:04 PM
Yeah, considering all the times that car took a shit on him before, and all the times I've had to pick him up or give him rides in lieu of his car working properly, I'm surprised it lasted this long, and a little happy it finally died. Now he can finally get a RELIABLE car, lol and stop mooching on me.

I have to say though, that car was awfully cool when it was running well. But see his problem was he'd throw modifications at it, without thinking it through, and he'd never maintain it. I don't think he ever did an honest oil change the whole time he owned it. For all I know, he just added oil when it was low, which was frequent.

Still though, an unmodified turbo DSM would be a cool car to have. It's just when people start modifying them, and in a helter-skelter pattern, that's when they get scary to own as a second hand buyer.

ShadowLvr400
10-28-08, 09:28 PM
(raises hand) I said the WRX. The EVO is way over $7k though, unless you're talking about some older grey market vehicle.


Sorry, I didn't see you mention the WRX. An older Evo can be found relatively cheap, though it will take more hunting than say... a 98 Camaro.