: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests



Dr Chill
10-01-08, 08:34 PM
See for yourself.

http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/model/landing.jsp?model=cts&year=2009

Jpjr
10-01-08, 09:15 PM
Whoa... could I have bitched enough about $60k that they actually listened? :)

Not to mention the day after the employee pricing program ended...

bruff1977
10-01-08, 09:22 PM
FINALLY!!! The options are going to bump up the MSRP big time...

ryannel2003
10-01-08, 09:54 PM
I just saw that... pretty damn good for what you're getting vs. V1.

justboughtacaddy
10-01-08, 10:29 PM
you guys forgot that the cts-v is getting a $2000 rebate as of now until 11/03/2008, if its getting rebates now that means i will get one for invoice.

CIWS
10-01-08, 10:51 PM
That's the top pricing on the V6 CTS, sorry guys, look more closely at the ad. If you click on the V Series you'll notice pricing for the 09 STS and XLR-Vs, but nothing on the CTS-V yet.

ryannel2003
10-01-08, 11:01 PM
I just built a CTS DI V6 AWD and it was $52k. Where did the other $7k go?

justboughtacaddy
10-01-08, 11:14 PM
no v6 cts will go up to $59,025 to start off. I bought my 09 AWD DI fully loaded and msrp was close to 52k so that my friends is the cts-v for 59,025 not including options or the 2,000 in rebates.

berryk
10-01-08, 11:19 PM
It has to be referring to the cts-v. If you look at the asterisk next to the price it says: MSRP. tax, title, dealer fees, and optional equipment extra. There is no way a regular cts could cost $59,025 especially since it does not include any of these additional fees. Also, the cts-v is talked about on the same page.

CIWS
10-01-08, 11:24 PM
no v6 cts will go up to $59,025 to start off. I bought my 09 AWD DI fully loaded and msrp was close to 52k so that my friends is the cts-v for 59,025 not including options or the 2,000 in rebates.


I just priced one and it came out to 53,075. I think the website is fooked.

justboughtacaddy
10-01-08, 11:28 PM
I just priced one and it came out to 53,075. I think the website is fooked.

:banghead: ha ha ha it could be jacked up but could make some sense for all the talk of 60k this and 60k that you know.

CIWS
10-01-08, 11:29 PM
Also, the cts-v is talked about on the same page.

Go click on the STS or XLR and you'll see a link in the same place going to the V Series.

justboughtacaddy
10-01-08, 11:34 PM
2009 CADILLAC CTS-V (1)
As low as 4.9% APR (2) for 36 months for qualified buyers $2,000 Bonus Cash

bruff1977
10-02-08, 09:54 AM
no v6 cts will go up to $59,025 to start off. I bought my 09 AWD DI fully loaded and msrp was close to 52k so that my friends is the cts-v for 59,025 not including options or the 2,000 in rebates.


^^ What he said...

bruff1977
10-02-08, 09:56 AM
2009 CADILLAC CTS-V (1)
As low as 4.9% APR (2) for 36 months for qualified buyers $2,000 Bonus Cash

Is this "and" or "or"?? I think I would just take the two grand. I won't use GMAC for financing... Just think about that note for only 36 months!!

Jpjr
10-02-08, 10:08 AM
For the record, any V6 CTS offerred at $60k is **EXACTLY** the type of over-pricing that some of us fear. What objective person under 60 would buy a V6 CTS over an M3 for $60k?

lawfive
10-02-08, 10:30 AM
How about guys who like a smooth, quiet, luxurious, roomy ride from point A to point B, and haven't been on a roller coaster for 20 years?

CIWS
10-02-08, 10:50 AM
For the record, any V6 CTS offerred at $60k is **EXACTLY** the type of over-pricing that some of us fear. What objective person under 60 would buy a V6 CTS over an M3 for $60k?

Well we can't seem to build a car on the site's page for more than 53K. Not sure what the Cadillac site has going on but it wouldn't be the first time some kind of error is there. It is also possible for some reason that price could reflect the upcoming CTS-V, but in the past four years they have never placed V pricing within the same area as the regular models.
Anyone want to guess how much added price if any the CTS wagon is going to bring to the table since they are going to build it ?

Cadillac Tony
10-02-08, 10:58 AM
Pricing is not in the Dealer ordering system yet, nor is it on the GMPricing web site.

There is also no rebate on the 2009 CTS-V, since none have even been built yet. The 4.9% offer is on V6 CTSs, and only for those who give up the $2,000 Purchase Bonus Cash.

bruff1977
10-02-08, 11:02 AM
There goes Tony... Squashing my dreams, bursting the bubble... :crying2: Seriously, why post on the consumer website and it's not even in the dealer network?

Varsity
10-02-08, 11:06 AM
Think what its like for us here in England, its reported to going to cost 60k, thats $110k!!

Cadillac Tony
10-02-08, 11:16 AM
I'm not sure what they're doing with those price "ranges" on the web site- I've never seen them do that before. I will say that I think you guys are getting all excited for nothing, because if you cruise over to the STS page, you'll see it says "$46,725 - $78,305". Next check the V-Series page, and you'll find that the V-Series STS starts at $83,375 (not $78,305), which would seem to shoot down the theory that the max pricing shown in the CTS section reflects the CTS-V's price. The same test works on the XLR - the prices in the XLR section have nothing to do with the V model.

I have no idea what's afoot at cadillac.com, but I don't think it's what you guys think it is.

RightTurn
10-02-08, 11:18 AM
And the voice of reason appears. :D

jasaero
10-02-08, 11:19 AM
For the record, any V6 CTS offerred at $60k is **EXACTLY** the type of over-pricing that some of us fear. What objective person under 60 would buy a V6 CTS over an M3 for $60k?

Maybe the same person looking for the larger 535i, but who finds out a sexier looking car can be had with a much higher option level for the same price??

CIWS
10-02-08, 11:39 AM
I have no idea what's afoot at cadillac.com, but I don't think it's what you guys think it is.

Seems like I saw something similar to this post :suspect:

Jpjr
10-02-08, 11:56 AM
Maybe the same person looking for the larger 535i, but who finds out a sexier looking car can be had with a much higher option level for the same price??

A luxary premium is half componentry, half reputation. It will take multiple successful launches from Cadillac to sway public perception without a price advantage. This goes right back to the STS and XLR being way over-priced.

jasaero
10-02-08, 01:16 PM
A luxary premium is half componentry, half reputation. It will take multiple successful launches from Cadillac to sway public perception without a price advantage. This goes right back to the STS and XLR being way over-priced.

I don't think it's 50/50. I am betting the new CTS could sell better than most 5 series competitors TODAY if it had the same pricing and options available. It's really a better car than the STS in almost everyway. Only missing a V8 and a few options. With the V8 and a few options I am quite certain the CTS could easily outsell everything except maybe the 5-series and E-class. The STS has already outsold all except those two a lot of months since it came out I am sure as it is currently right in the same ballpark as everyone other than those two. Only the GS has a slight advantage at the moment. The M35/45 did better last year, but it was pretty new still then and isn't really priced as high as the rest.

I would say reputation is more 40% and it isn't even reputation so much as image. Lexus is the only lux company selling it's volume based on reputation. The rest sell according to their image in the marketplace more than anything. MB would have nose dived in sales by now if they were sold on reputation as they soiled their reputation big time over the last decade. They retained their image through it all though. Really MB and BMW hold in this class right now because everything is so close that no particular car really stands out ahead of all the rest. I think if the CTS were upgraded and upcontented for the price bracket of the cars it actually competes with on size that it would stand out in that category enough to get really close to MB and BMW sales numbers on their E and 5. I don't think they would even need a DOHC V8 to make that happen either if they tuned one of the LS engines correctly for the V8 version. Take the savings and apply it to the trim and content of the car from base all the way up. Use real leather, wood, metals, and carbon fibre on the interior and stuff. This sort of thing might happen in a few years also when the BLS or BTS or whatever they end up calling the RWD small caddy comes to the US. My guess is though that they will just narrow the price range of the small car, while starting it at about $30k or just under without increasing the CTS price much from where it is. We'll see I guess.

Jpjr
10-02-08, 02:01 PM
[QUOTE=jasaero;1648626]I don't think it's 50/50. I am betting the new CTS could sell better than most 5 series competitors TODAY if it had the same pricing and options available.

I would say reputation is more 40% and it isn't even reputation so much as image. QUOTE]

I think we are speaking the same language... whether you call it luxuary or image... it's the intangible part. I would simply argue that the intangible part needs to be less for Caddy than it does Merc, BMW, or Lexus.

As far as outselling, I think you will be proven right but again the price gets most of the credit. The CTS has been heavily discounted relative to the others I would assume based upon recent promotions.

Varsity
10-02-08, 02:27 PM
I bet theres a room at Cadillac HQ where they just sit and LTAO at us here.

Amusing doesn't even begin to describe it.

Jpjr
10-02-08, 02:54 PM
I bet theres a room at Cadillac HQ where they just sit and LTAO at us here.

Amusing doesn't even begin to describe it.

Unfortunately I seriously doubt anyone at GM is laughing right now ;)

jasaero
10-02-08, 02:59 PM
[QUOTE=jasaero;1648626]I don't think it's 50/50. I am betting the new CTS could sell better than most 5 series competitors TODAY if it had the same pricing and options available.

I would say reputation is more 40% and it isn't even reputation so much as image. QUOTE]

I think we are speaking the same language... whether you call it luxuary or image... it's the intangible part. I would simply argue that the intangible part needs to be less for Caddy than it does Merc, BMW, or Lexus.

As far as outselling, I think you will be proven right but again the price gets most of the credit. The CTS has been heavily discounted relative to the others I would assume based upon recent promotions.

If you watch the base price of the CTS though it started at about $30k originally and it upto $36k+ now. I think it will base around $40k by the time the small Caddy hits the market. As all these increases happened it's sales actually picked up so it has partially been to regulate demand also probably. Rather than annoy people with how long it takes to get them their car they just slowly increase the price. I think they already have Lexus basically handled on image anyhow. Lexus seems to only attract people based on quality and reliability while making good quiet cruisers rather than being an image car. Basically people buy Lexus more for tangible reasons rather than the intangible. The tangible is good with BMW and MB, but I think they are bought mostly on the intangible.

My point really though was that segment wide most cars in this class are bought for tangible reason of that particular buyer. Cadillac is getting really close to shoring up every last tangible reason with the CTS and even creating some strong intangibles in the process.

Cadillac Tony
10-02-08, 04:00 PM
jasaero has made some very good points here. The CTS has always been a 5 series at a 3 series price, and now that it is gaining a reputation for great style, power and quality (as evidenced by the universally great reviews) Cadillac is slowly moving it toward 5 series prices.

Expect a smaller car to slot in below it at the old CTS price of $30k to compete directly with the 3, both in price AND size, within the next few years.

GNSCOTT
10-02-08, 09:07 PM
GM just raised the price of all Corvettes by $1500 because of material costs. If they do start it under $60k I can tell you it will be a publicity thing and it will quickly rise and be $63k by the end of the first model year.

V-Love
10-02-08, 11:03 PM
How about guys who like a smooth, quiet, luxurious, roomy ride from point A to point B, and haven't been on a roller coaster for 20 years?

Front wheel drive DTS. Its nice but its a pig. Just returned a loaner.

Jpjr
10-03-08, 04:36 AM
GM just raised the price of all Corvettes by $1500 because of material costs. If they do start it under $60k I can tell you it will be a publicity thing and it will quickly rise and be $63k by the end of the first model year.

They can raise the price, only to discount it later. This is the toughest auto market in 20 years, the consumer has all of the pricing power. Sales down 20%... many analysts saying 1 in 5 auto dealers will need to close if things do not pick up in 2009.

Looks like GM will offer 0% financing for 36 months on 2008 CTS in October... and up to 72 months 0% for Escalade and other big SUV's. Hope these get extended to 2009 like the employee discounts did.

Cadillac Tony
10-03-08, 11:23 AM
I don't think it's as tough as after Sept.11th, but that's just at my particular Dealership. This last two months has been difficult due to all the doom and gloom on the news, but after the rollercoaster stock market stabilizes, things should smooth out.

Also, don't forget that the downside to huge discounts on the new cars is horrendous resale value down the road- it's a double-edged sword (sort of a "pay me now or pay me later" deal). People complain when there's not huge discounts on the new cars, but then when they give them, the same people complain about their resale value at trade time- you can't have both. GM has been trying to get away from the rebates for years, and is still moving in that direction. They're doing what they need to do to clear out old inventory, but the programs don't last long.

Many of the Automakers are starting to focus on profitability and controlling costs instead of just dumping more and more cars into the marketplace. Toyota's sales were down almost twice as much as GM's compared to last year, so the slowdown is not limited to the American automakers. It's an industry wide problem, partially because of an oversaturated market.

Jpjr
10-03-08, 01:04 PM
I agree with the premise of your last post over the long term, but I would say GM has one priority right now and that is cash flow. Toyota can be more margin focused because they have a much stronger balance sheet. GM should accept cash (sales) in lieu of profit in the near term because liquidity is the key to survival. Their share of the $25 billion should help them get back on the profit track.

NormV
10-03-08, 03:05 PM
Chrysler just increased prices $500 and Toyota is offer similar 0% for 36 to 60 months. Expect prices to rise at GM also as they will discount in niche markets. Gas prices in Ohio are just over $3.20's per gallon. Great time to be a consumer. Just need the insurance industry to follow suit! :)


Norm


They can raise the price, only to discount it later. This is the toughest auto market in 20 years, the consumer has all of the pricing power. Sales down 20%... many analysts saying 1 in 5 auto dealers will need to close if things do not pick up in 2009.

Looks like GM will offer 0% financing for 36 months on 2008 CTS in October... and up to 72 months 0% for Escalade and other big SUV's. Hope these get extended to 2009 like the employee discounts did.

lawfive
10-03-08, 03:56 PM
For the record, any V6 CTS offerred at $60k is **EXACTLY** the type of over-pricing that some of us fear. What objective person under 60 would buy a V6 CTS over an M3 for $60k?


How about guys who like a smooth, quiet, luxurious, roomy ride from point A to point B, and haven't been on a roller coaster for 20 years?


Front wheel drive DTS. Its nice but its a pig. Just returned a loaner.

Ah... I thought we were talking about guys who aren't dead yet.

Jpjr
10-03-08, 04:38 PM
Chrysler just increased prices $500 and Toyota is offer similar 0% for 36 to 60 months. Expect prices to rise at GM also as they will discount in niche markets. Gas prices in Ohio are just over $3.20's per gallon. Great time to be a consumer. Just need the insurance industry to follow suit! :)


Norm


I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with me or not. The auto market is the worst it has been since the early 1990's, and will get worse yet. They can raise sticker price, but the price that cars are sold will go down. Economic law daniel son, not miyagi's :)

NormV
10-03-08, 05:38 PM
I would not associate sales levels with profits from 20 years ago. . With the output per person today if they are breaking even they are making money. Besides GM just extinguished 3.5 m when the 25b for facilties 20 years or older was pased in order for them to meet emissions standards. You'll continue to see prices increases through 2010.

Listen to Palin and her partner that the fundamentals are strong if we're smart enough to live within our means. :)



Norm


I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with me or not. The auto market is the worst it has been since the early 1990's, and will get worse yet. They can raise sticker price, but the price that cars are sold will go down. Economic law daniel son, not miyagi's :)

Jpjr
10-03-08, 07:46 PM
GM just went through two months of the most severe discounting process ever. Who cares what sticker is, all that matters is clearing levels. If they don't sell the cars at clearing levels, they sit on the lots but that doesn't make them more valuable. The market decides the price and profit at GM, GM just provides the suggestion.

NormV
10-03-08, 08:59 PM
And GM gained almost 1/3 of the market last month in doing so. This gives major control in pricing increases which assist in decreasing those big incentives.


There was around $1500 off on the 05 or 06 V and depending on how they price it might see similar. But maybe not as it is a unique car in it's price range.

Norm



GM just went through two months of the most severe discounting process ever. Who cares what sticker is, all that matters is clearing levels. If they don't sell the cars at clearing levels, they sit on the lots but that doesn't make them more valuable. The market decides the price and profit at GM, GM just provides the suggestion.

Jpjr
10-03-08, 11:00 PM
And GM gained almost 1/3 of the market last month in doing so. This gives major control in pricing increases which assist in decreasing those big incentives.


There was around $1500 off on the 05 or 06 V and depending on how they price it might see similar. But maybe not as it is a unique car in it's price range.

Norm

I agree with this from the perspective that the absolute best thing an automaker can do is sell someone a good vehicle. The odds of them returning or recommending that automaker skyrocket. GM grabbing share by pricing cars to market will help spread the word that their product is once again competitive. This will result in more customer loyalty and higher margins over time.

NormV
10-04-08, 10:36 AM
I agree with this from the perspective that the absolute best thing an automaker can do is sell someone a good vehicle. The odds of them returning or recommending that automaker skyrocket. GM grabbing share by pricing cars to market will help spread the word that their product is once again competitive. This will result in more customer loyalty and higher margins over time.

The right product for the right price has always been GM philosophy. Toyota/Lexus, even with their strong financial availability and perceived quality product, could not force a quality car down people's throat last quarter and dropped almost half of their month-to-month sales on the coasts. Toyota took it on the chin and now has offered 0% financing. So don't think the selling point is the best quality car will always win.

Someone wants a lux domestic in the CTS class the tarted up Milan/MXZ/Zephur/Fusion/Five Hundred platform sharing is not going to cut it aside that it is FWD. Forget about Ford offering a performance sedan that will play with the big boys. Cadillac definitely has this niche and will command the price as this class is less price sensitive.

Norm