: Why is STS faster than concours/DTS?



Devil_concours
01-19-03, 12:29 PM
Why do people say that STS is faster?

if you tell me because STS weighs less than DTS/Concours then you should check the specs on all models

03 STS - 4,027
03 SLS - 3,992
03 Deville - 3,978
03 DHS - 4,049
03 DTS - 4,047
97 Concours - 4,052
all figures are in lbs.

just for fun
02 ESC 3,814
02 ETC 3,865
02 ECS(collector's series) 3,865
04 XLR 3,600(publication estimated), 315hp/310lbft northstar engine with VVT, five speed automatic with manual mode

BeelzeBob
01-19-03, 03:29 PM
Wow! I've been wondering about the weights.. Thank you for posting this.. I would imagine this has something to do with gearing.. I would bet that the STS has bigger gears for performance. And, I'd bet that the STS's transmission was also geared higher for performance.. There may even be a less restrictive (but louder) exhaust on the STS..

Of course, these are only my assumptions.. Who's got the facts?

Devil_concours
01-20-03, 08:06 PM
if the sts had less restrictive exhuast then it will also have more power than dts but they are both rated same.

Devil_concours
01-20-03, 10:57 PM
we need to go get caddiedan to join our forum
he will be a great addition to our forum

Katshot
01-21-03, 10:22 AM
What makes you think the STS IS faster than the DTS? The two are virtually identical. They have the same power, gearing, weight. If there IS a difference in acceleration between them, it's because of 3 points possibily:
1. Air inlet restriction
2. Exhaust restriction
3. PCM programming
These three can easily make big differences.

BeelzeBob
01-21-03, 06:30 PM
And they can all be easily changed. Right?

Devil_concours
01-21-03, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Katshot
What makes you think the STS IS faster than the DTS? The two are virtually identical. They have the same power, gearing, weight. If there IS a difference in acceleration between them, it's because of 3 points possibily:
1. Air inlet restriction
2. Exhaust restriction
3. PCM programming
These three can easily make big differences.

if for some reason any of the air inlet or exhaust differs that greatly than the power rating between two car will differ too but that's not the case between two.

Katshot
01-22-03, 10:41 AM
What I was pointing to was that in any situation like this where you have two cars that have identical (for all practical purposes) drivetrains and curb weights, and one is slightly quicker than the other, it usually comes down to intake, exhaust, and programming.
There's still the question that I asked. What makes you think one IS quicker than the other? Any tests I've found have them neck and neck on acceleration.

Devil_concours
01-22-03, 11:54 PM
according to motor trend november 2002 issue,
01 sts ran 0-60 in 6.5sec, 1/4mi in 14.8sec, and brakes to 0 from 60 in 119ft
whereas
02 dts ran 0-60 in 7.3sec, 1/4mi in 15.8sec and stopped from 60 in 132ft.
That is huge.

Katshot
01-23-03, 09:40 AM
There HAD to be something wrong with the Deville, or something overly right about the Seville. That's way too big of a difference.

Devil_concours
01-26-03, 11:19 AM
anyone else have answer to this mystery?

Katshot
01-27-03, 10:28 AM
The answer to the mystery may be as close as the latest edition of Motor Trend. They are catching a lot of flack lately from readers about the widely varying test results they are posting on cars lately. The editor has responded by pointing out (correctly I might add), that a couple tenths in 0-60 times, and a half second or so difference in test results done on similar cars (same make, model, and year), isn't out of the question considering the large degree of variables involved. If you don't belive me, just take your car to the track a few times over a couple months and you'll see by your slips that your times will vary greatly. And that's you driving your own car at the same track over, and over. Now imagine if you were just running similar cars, different fuels, different drivers, different track conditions, and of course different climactic conditions. The only track results that are really telling are ones done during a comparison test on the same day, same track, same driver, etc. And even then, those cars may, or may not be representative of what another car of the same year, make and model can do. In the end, it's similar to what is said about football teams and games (on any Sunday...). Any car, on any day......

Devil_concours
01-27-03, 11:32 PM
but .8 sec in 0-60 and 1 sec in 1/4mi is too big of a difference.

GTFiero1
01-27-03, 11:40 PM
the HP and toque ratings were developed on engine testing stands and not dynoed on the car itslef, just becase the engine has 300hp out of the car doesnt mean that its will still have the same in the car due to the fact that the ngine they test has no exhaust, just manifold an no airbox. ALso aero dynamics have a big part in it too. Any speed or RPM limitors on the Deville? That can also be a factor

Devil_concours
01-28-03, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by GTFiero1
the HP and toque ratings were developed on engine testing stands and not dynoed on the car itslef, just becase the engine has 300hp out of the car doesnt mean that its will still have the same in the car due to the fact that the ngine they test has no exhaust, just manifold an no airbox. ALso aero dynamics have a big part in it too. Any speed or RPM limitors on the Deville? That can also be a factor
But dts owners are running simlar time as sts owners. Now only that i think even my 97 will run 0-60 in just under 7 and 1/4 in very low 15 or very high 14s. This is a highly educated guess. ran on a very flat surface with exact 1/4 mi markings.

Devil_concours
02-02-03, 10:37 PM
While I was at the barber shop waiting get haircut. I stumbled upon a magzine that only had comparisons. I was scrolling thorough i ran into an article where they compared bunch of different sedans including dts. It said DTS ran 6.4sec 0-60 and 15sec 1/4mi. Now that sounds closer to being true than all the other numbers. How could the numbers vary that much? Do they not test the cars and only make guesses?

BeelzeBob
02-04-03, 06:34 PM
Some people can drive - some can't.. That's what I think...

kcnewell
02-05-03, 01:52 AM
Not exactly Sal, Or should I say not exactly that simple? Even if you take the same guy and the same car to the track at different times and under different conditions. Even if that driver is very consistent in his getaway their are a lot of variables that can cause inconsistancies in his 0/60 and 1/4 times weather, air density, track surface temp and so on. It can change results noticably. Did you ever think that your car felt like it has more pep on a cold evening as compared to a warm dry one? it's kinda the same thing.

Katshot
02-05-03, 09:00 AM
Driving ability has very little to do with obtaining 1/4 mile ETs from cars with automatic transmissions. Since R/T is NOT considered in the calculation, as long as you can hold the pedal to the metal and keep the car on the track, you should be very consistent as long as the ambient temps remain FAIRLY constant.
The other point is that most (if not all) magazines post "corrected" times. In other words, they are corrected to "standard-day" by using a correction factor depending on temp, baro, and relative humidity. These calculations can easily add some error into the picture too.