: The Volt Doesn't Charge the Battery.



dkozloski
09-26-08, 11:45 PM
The Volt has been misrepresented. When the battery is depleted the gas engine starts and connects to the drive motor only. The battery is not recharged until you plug it in. It becomes another gas driven car, only you're dragging along a dead battery.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=132112#2

heavymetals
09-26-08, 11:53 PM
Not entirely correct.

" Energy from regenerative braking is dumped into the battery"

That is a form of recharging.

Jesda
09-26-08, 11:54 PM
The truth is in the middle: The battery level is sustained, not recharged. Its not a dead battery either. Its level is maintained for when you go to charge it at home.

dkozloski
09-27-08, 12:00 AM
The truth is in the middle: The battery level is sustained, not recharged. Its not a dead battery either. Its level is maintained for when you go to charge it at home.
Forty miles; you've got a gas engine car and you're dragging along a useless battery.

blue07cts
09-27-08, 12:03 AM
Forty miles; you've got a gas engine car and you're dragging along a useless battery.

OHHHHH i get it now! they made a prius!! :rimshot:

Jesda
09-27-08, 01:01 AM
Forty miles; you've got a gas engine car and you're dragging along a useless battery.

You didn't read your own article and claimed there was no connection to the battery at all. The battery is maintained while the electric motor drives the wheels. This gives you the advantage of gas-free driving for daily commutes and gasoline for extended range.

It is very different from a gasoline-powered car.

heavymetals
09-27-08, 01:09 AM
I thought the "regenerative braking" would show where he was wrong.

It is not a "loss" system.

dkozloski
09-27-08, 01:17 AM
You didn't read your own article and claimed there was no connection to the battery at all. The battery is maintained while the electric motor drives the wheels. This gives you the advantage of gas-free driving for daily commutes and gasoline for extended range.

It is very different from a gasoline-powered car.
After forty miles the battery no longer contributes to the propulsion of the car but you still are dragging it along as dead weight. The car is entirely driven by gasoline at this point and the battery is now a handicap. The battery is maintained in a depleted state and is not recharged to usefulness until you return home and plug the car into an electrical outlet. Please explain to me how after forty miles the battery does you any more good than teats on a slab of bacon.

Jesda
09-27-08, 01:23 AM
No, the electric motor does the driving while the engine is used to power it. This system enables someone to commute and use no gasoline.

At all.

Ever.

I don't see what point is being missed here? Not every state is like Alaska. Most Americans don't have to take a dogsled to work while wrestling with polar bears.

Playdrv4me
09-27-08, 01:26 AM
:koz:

dkozloski
09-27-08, 01:59 AM
No, the electric motor does the driving while the engine is used to power it. This system enables someone to commute and use no gasoline.

At all.

Ever.

I don't see what point is being missed here? Not every state is like Alaska. Most Americans don't have to take a dogsled to work while wrestling with polar bears.
The point is that the car was originally and mistakenly presented as being capable of recharging the battery with the gas engine while away from home.

Jesda
09-27-08, 02:08 AM
The point is that the car was originally and mistakenly presented as being capable of recharging the battery with the gas engine while away from home.

Your original point was different, and proof that you didn't read your own article.

AMGoff
09-27-08, 02:22 AM
The Volt has never been presented in that way whatsoever...

It is driven by an electric motor at all times... this has always been known.

The plug-in onboard batteries will provide a range of 40 miles without using any gasoline at all... this has always been known.

For trips long then 40 miles, the Volt will rely on a small gas engine that acts as a generator to supply power to the electric motor... this has always been known.

There's a big difference between misrepresentation and misunderstanding due to assumptions.

dkozloski
09-27-08, 02:46 AM
Mystery solved. There are two different stories circulating.

New story http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=132246

Original story http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=132112

hueterm
09-27-08, 03:08 AM
It's still ugly...

ewill3rd
09-27-08, 07:43 AM
Is this cleared up yet?
The 40 mile battery powers the drive motor until it goes low then the gas engine kicks in to run a generator which then powers the drive motor. The car is still driven by electricity, not the gas engine.
I didn't read these articles, GM has plenty of stuff on their website to describe the operation of this vehicle.
You don't need to read the distortion of someone else's interpretation of what they read somewhere else and then pretend the distortions are correct.

Yeah, it isn't the nicest thing to look at.

blue07cts
09-27-08, 04:35 PM
well it's actually better looking than a prius, and now after actually paying attention to it, the car seems to be quite revolutionary in concept. i just wanna see how well they pull it off.

Brett
09-27-08, 05:23 PM
Mystery solved. There are two different stories circulating.

New story http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=132246

Original story http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=132112

sounds like nobody knows exactly how this thing works....including GM:cookoo:

CTSV_Rob
09-27-08, 06:11 PM
Yeah, it isn't the nicest thing to look at.
Now that's politically correct.

It is a bit ugly, sure hope they sport it up a bit on future models.

New battery Technology = faster and farther

I am looking forward to see where this leads, if the R&D continues this should be an interesting technology in the future.

ewill3rd
09-27-08, 08:03 PM
The last thing I saw published said GM was still working on a production power cell for this car.
I would imagine as the research continues the information will mutate several times before it his production.
They want to keep you interested but sometimes what hits the showroom is barely what they talked about in the beginning.

If you ask me, looking anywhere but here will get you misinformation and even looking here won't get you specifics on the actual production car.
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/?evar10=DIVISIONAL_FUEL_EFFICIENCY

CTSV_Rob
09-27-08, 08:23 PM
I keeping an open mind on this one ewill. I am hoping GM will step up to the plate and hit one out of the park. The Volt is the correct direction but falls a bit short of "my" expectations.

I watched a review on YouTube for a couple of different electric cars and with the published specs and proposed body style the volt is toward the bottom of the pile. The other cars that interest me are just too expensive and in one case no storage to speak of.

The ones that come to mind are the T-rex, Tesla, Volt (of course), and there was another that looked a lot like a golf cart.

The T-rex is nothing but a toy. It has no storage, it is a three wheeler, and it would not be very safe in a crash. Because of the fact that it has three wheels it does not need to meet all of the safety requirements of a car. Because of this they have shaved a ton of weight and in the end this thing handles sweet and it is quick. Down side is without the storage it doesn't make the best DD for me. + with a price tag of $65K it's more then I want to spend. If I did have $65K to throw away I would get one of these in a heart beat, it looks like a blast to drive.

Tesla is an awesome car but just too far out of my price range.

The golf cart looking thing has the most promise out of the bunch but it was the ugliest too.

The only real thing the Volt had going for it was the suggested price and the fact that it was less hideous then the golf cart looking one.

I realize the market is geared more toward the No makeup wearing tree huggers but a little style could have gone a long ways.

Maybe one thing you could do is suggest that The Tony Show pose in all of the ads with the Volt, I heard rumor he would make it look cool... :D

MauiV
09-27-08, 11:05 PM
Every article I read was 40 miles on a single charge. It never eluded to the battery recharging under gasoline driving. Most people I know live with 40 miles of work, and my employer has to provide me a place to charge so it would be perfect. This car isnt the family truckster for a cross country trip with 6 deep, the dog and Grandma on the roof. Its a daily commuter which enables you to NEVER use gas in an urban enviroment and thats who it will be sold to.

I dont like the new body style so its out for me. I do like the looks of the new Dodge hybrid based on a Lotus though.

MauiV
09-27-08, 11:15 PM
Here is the Dodge....

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/jdinmaui/ev2.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/jdinmaui/ev1.jpg

The body of the car is the Lotus Europa (a bigger version of the Elise). The guts and interior are all Chrysler engineered. The car will, according to Chrysler execs, drop by 2011 or 2012 to compete directly against the Volt. Claims are as follows:

- Recharge on standard home outlet 110/220
- Full charge in 4 hours on 220 / 8 hours on 110
- 0-60 time in under 5 seconds
- Range of 150-200 miles

If its true then apparently Crysler has finally made a product worth a shit.

ewill3rd
09-28-08, 10:57 AM
So that is a full electric vehicle?
I tried looking for information on it but all I see are eco-buzz words and lies about how electricity is so good for the environment because the car has zero emissions. Um... how did they make the electricity?

Anyway, I'd like some real info on that one if it is out there somewhere.

Oh and if you want to throw up, look at their "Gem Peapod" :lol:

Submariner409
09-28-08, 11:16 AM
It will all come to pass in a car-sized platform, whether all electric or hybrid (as in batteries, electric motor, generator, petroleum engine). A very large percentage of tugboats, diesel-electric railroad engines, and diesel-electric submarines use the Volt propulsion principle.

In the diesel-electric application large GE, EMD or Fairbanks-Morse diesels are driving one or more generators which are linked to the drive motor(s) through rheostats and control switches. The engine, above stationary idle, is governed at a fairly constant speed and the electric load (and therefore the engine load) is varied by huge rheostats to perform motor drive. Infinitely controllable, very quiet, and can be awesomely powerful. The beauty of electrical motors is that almost all the input (volts/amps) is converted to work, far more efficient than a petroleum engine.

TANSTAAFL, however: That electricity originally has to come from somewhere, whether Niagara Falls, coal generators, nuclear power, petroleum. The car is ultimately the user, not the creator, of the electricity. If an employer were required to supply charging facilities, that employer would be perfectly correct in either docking your pay for the electrical cost or charging you a fee: It's your car.

MauiV
09-28-08, 12:31 PM
If an employer were required to supply charging facilities, that employer would be perfectly correct in either docking your pay for the electrical cost or charging you a fee: It's your car.


But mine does neither. Local hospitals also have chargers in their lots for electric cars that are free.

dkozloski
09-28-08, 01:31 PM
Many local employers provide electrical outlets so that employees can plug in their cars to keep the engines warm in extreme cold weather. Years ago this was a common freebie. When electricity hit $0.20/kwh, the freebie turned into a deductible. Now only the government can afford to give it away. Everybody else has to pay. Recharging electric cars may be free for now but you can bet your butt that when the bean counters see the effect on the electric bill that things will change in a heartbeat. Employers don't pay your way to work now. What makes you think they'll do it in the future? Oh! I remember now. You work for the FAA and the taxpayers are paying your way.

CTSV_Rob
09-28-08, 04:41 PM
It's sad it's a Dodge but that's what I had in mind. That may have even gone a little too far but GM can learn from that example and find a happy medium.

ewill3rd
09-29-08, 09:10 AM
I'd agree, when ownership of charging electric cars goes from 1 out of 200,000 to 1 out of 100 or higher things are going to change.

CIWS
09-29-08, 09:31 AM
So that is a full electric vehicle?
I tried looking for information on it but all I see are eco-buzz words and lies about how electricity is so good for the environment because the car has zero emissions. Um... how did they make the electricity?

That one is fully electric. It has more promised range than the Volt running on batteries alone. But it doesn't have a generator for when the batteries do run down. So overall the Volt will have a greater total range using it's on board engine. Dodge is building other electric vehicles as well, some do include an on board generator for greater range. Just not that one.


https://www.chryslerllc.com/en/img/headers/innovation-envi-specs-dodge.jpg
You don't have to slow down to keep the planet squeaky clean. And you'll never have to stop for another gas station. Dodge EV packages zero tailpipe emissions in the unlikely form of a two-passenger rear-wheel-drive sports car with responsive, agile performance.
Bragging rights aren't limited to your bank account balance: the instant high torque of the 200 kW electric-drive motor accelerates the Dodge EV to 60 mph in less than five seconds, with quarter-mile times of 13 seconds. The competition won't hear you coming.
Thanks to the latest advanced lithium-ion battery technology, the Dodge EV has a continuous driving range of 150 to 200 miles – more than triple the average daily commute of most consumers. To recharge, plug into any standard 110-volt household outlet for eight hours. (You have to sleep at some point.)
Other Dodge vehicles will get the ENVI treatment. Look for announcements in the months to come."

Download a pdf of the full Dodge EV specifications. (https://www.chryslerllc.com/pdf/envi/DodgeEV_specs.pdf)

https://www.chryslerllc.com/en/img/headers/innovation-envi-specs-jeep.jpg


ROAM THE PLANET WHILE TAKING CARE OF IT

"Leave nothing behind" just took on a whole new meaning. The Jeep EV development vehicle infuses Wrangler's go-anywhere capability with eco-friendly emissions.
For your typical commutes, the four-door Jeep EV won't sip an ounce of gasoline or emit any carbon, relying on its electric motor and advanced lithium-ion battery system for the first 40 miles. When you feel like wandering, a small gasoline engine with an integrated electric generator produces the additional energy needed to power the electric-drive system - up to 400 miles on eight gallons of gas.
If your adventure should include some off-roading, you can rely on the instant high torque of the electric-drive motor and the ability to precisely control each wheel independently to get you where you need to go - paved or unpaved.
Stay tuned for the announcement of more additions to the Jeep EV family in the months to come."

Download full vehicle specifications (pdf) (https://www.chryslerllc.com/pdf/envi/JeepEV_specs.pdf)

https://www.chryslerllc.com/en/img/headers/innovation-envi-specs-chrysler.jpg

400 MILES OF TRANQUILITY ON 8 GALLONS OF GAS

"If you thought our vehicles were intriguing from the outside, wait until you see -- and hear -- the Chrysler EV lineup. Chrysler’s provocative design becomes even more so, with seamless acceleration and smooth, silent driving courtesy of an ENVI electric-drive system. And we haven't even started talking about the fuel savings…
For example, the Town & Country Range-extended Electric Vehicle offers the luxurious seven-passenger capacity and driving range of today's segment-leading minivan coupled with clean, quiet fuel efficiency not found anywhere on the road today.
The Chrysler EV augments its electric-drive system with an integrated small-displacement engine and generator to produce additional electricity to power the electric-drive system when needed. The result: eight gallons of gas will yield 400 miles of tranquility. Chrysler wouldn't design it any other way.
More additions to Chrysler’s EV portfolio will be announced in the months to come."

Download a pdf of the full Chrysler EV specifications. > (https://www.chryslerllc.com/pdf/envi/ChryslerEV_specs.pdf)

Stoneage_Caddy
10-01-08, 08:02 PM
Volt I dont think could charge its batterys and run the car off the 1.4l at the same time.

a 1.4l engine can barley keep something that heavy rolling along anyway. Then to ask it to charge the batterys too?

Regen brakeing and the other tricks are there just to get the eletric only range to 40 miles

tho some minor programming changes could get you at least 60 miles , by say running the engine to charge that batterys while it runs them down...Say flipping on the gas engine and running it at low rpm when the batterys got to say 30% charge left ...use the gas engine early to delay the inevitable dead batterys.

the programming could easily be done since volt learns your rote to work everyday and anticpates every move..., it would know of that 1 mile downhill run where it can get away with running the engine and a slight regen brake drag , doing as much as it can to save you as much as possible if your commute was say 60 miles round trip ...

Stoneage_Caddy
10-01-08, 08:08 PM
note-
the cars name is a bit ironic....last time i checked its not volts but amps you need to spin the motor ...

dwight.j.carter
10-01-08, 09:10 PM
does it matter the production model is ass ugly. I guess I would drive one though if it meant not having to buy gas.

dwight.j.carter
10-01-08, 09:11 PM
note-
the cars name is a bit ironic....last time i checked its not volts but amps you need to spin the motor ...

Can't call it an Amp unless it will be sponsored by pepsi. lol

ewill3rd
10-02-08, 09:33 AM
Amps and Volts usually coexist AFAIK.
You can't really have much of one without the other.
Most people don't know the difference between an amp, volt, ohm, or a coulomb.

Stoneage_Caddy
10-02-08, 08:16 PM
Amps and Volts usually coexist AFAIK.
You can't really have much of one without the other.
Most people don't know the difference between an amp, volt, ohm, or a coulomb.

amps are more nessesary ...

i could have a battery that had 12 volts and 10 amps , and itd barely turn the headlamps on ...

most motors arent advertised for volts either , its normally amps or watts or both ...

i guess im the only one that really likes the way the volt looks , nice looking car ....then again i thought the reatta was pretty ...

cooncat
10-02-08, 08:27 PM
I would consider buying one of these cars. This is the direction we need to go in to help achieve independence from middle eastern oil. The price needs to come down to make it affordable for the aveage person. I think that $30,000 is a steep price to pay. I know the technology is expensive, but in order to make it attractive for everybody, the price needs to drop, but I think that will come in time, but I hope not too long.

CTSV_Rob
10-02-08, 08:28 PM
amps are more nessesary ...

i could have a battery that had 12 volts and 10 amps , and itd barely turn the headlamps on ...

most motors arent advertised for volts either , its normally amps or watts or both ...

i guess im the only one that really likes the way the volt looks , nice looking car ....then again i thought the reatta was pretty ...
The Volt sounds better than the Amp anyways.

I believe ewill is right on this one, you need both.

If you have 1 volt and 50 amps it won't work either.

It's funny you mention Watts, the formula for Watts is I x E = P. In other words you multiply amps times volts to get watts.

Almost every electronic device will have 2 requirements for power, a min and max for voltage and a minimum current.

Are you talking the Concept or the Pre production version? The concept does look pretty good.

ewill3rd
10-02-08, 09:16 PM
I wasn't looking for a technical discussion on electricity, just pointing out that amps and volts go hand in hand (usually).

I think it looks okay, fits in with most of the cars on the road today and isn't as nasty as some.
Not sure if I'd buy one, maybe if the price was substantially lower?

Stoneage_Caddy
10-02-08, 10:42 PM
The Volt sounds better than the Amp anyways.

I believe ewill is right on this one, you need both.

If you have 1 volt and 50 amps it won't work either.

It's funny you mention Watts, the formula for Watts is I x E = P. In other words you multiply amps times volts to get watts.

Almost every electronic device will have 2 requirements for power, a min and max for voltage and a minimum current.

Are you talking the Concept or the Pre production version? The concept does look pretty good.
I like the production beatter then the conecpt ...one of the best looking small cars in a long time...

my beef tho is it doesnt look like a GM ....but it looks great ...

tho the dash , is aweful ....

so maybe it should have been called the "watt"...there seems to be some ohms on my amps idea

Stoneage_Caddy
10-02-08, 10:43 PM
I wasn't looking for a technical discussion on electricity,

neither am i lol ..i just have a habit of coming off that way

ewill3rd
10-03-08, 09:22 AM
Oh it would be fun.... but I don't want to bore anybody... ;)

Loved your joke by the way, reminds me of my favorite tee shirt.

"when it comes to understanding binary there are 10 kinds of people"

codewize
10-06-08, 11:36 PM
According to Bob Lutz on 20/20 last night the engine CHARGES the batter while driving.