: STS Pricing...



miscreant
06-16-04, 05:18 PM
Preliminary start-of-production prices.

Base Model Prices
Model...Model Description......................MSRP(c).......... .Destination
6DW29...STS V6 Luxury Sports Sedan.............$40,300.00.........$695.00
6DC29...STS V8 Luxury Sports Sedan.............$46,800.00.........$695.00

Option Packages
Optioncode......Description....................... ......MSRP(c)
1SA.............1SA Standard Package....................$0.00
1SB.............1SB Luxury Package......................$2,390.00
1SC.............1SC Luxury Performance Package..........$8,595.00
1SE.............1SE Luxury Package......................$2,845.00
1SF.............1SF Luxury Performance Package..........$11,065.00
1SG.............1SG Premium Lux Performance Pkg.........$13,115.00
PCR.............Premium Upgrade Package.................$730.00
QAF.............Performance Handling Package............$795.00

Additional Options
OptionCode...Description.......................... ......MSRP(c)
K59..........Adaptive Cruise Control....................$2,300.00
MV3..........All Wheel Drive............................$1,900.00
V03..........Performance Cooling Package................$150.00
K05..........Engine Block Heater........................$100.00
29U..........Red Line Premium Color.....................$995.00
98U..........White Diamond Premium Color................$995.00
R8E..........Gas Guzzler Tax (w/MV3 AWD)................$1,000.00
IL3..........Premium Tuscany Leather Seats..............$1,200.00
U2K..........XM Satellite...............................$325.00
CF5..........Express Open/Close Sunroof.................$1,200.00

rayainsw
06-16-04, 05:31 PM
I have seen descriptions / lists of the components of 1SF and 1SG - what is included in 1SE?

Thanks,
- Ray
Wondering why such a wide price gap from 1SE to 1SF - among other pricing concerns . . .

b4z
06-16-04, 06:12 PM
1SA, 1SB, 1SC are V6s.
1SE and above is V8s.

I wonder if Tuscany leather is a semi aniline or aniline dyed leather like
what Lexus offers?

b4z
06-16-04, 06:18 PM
Also i remember Mark La Nave or Bob Lutz saying that there would be a spoiler delete option on the Performance packages and that there would be different top speeds for each due to rear end lift on the non spoiler equipped cars.

But, I see no spoiler delete option available.

Also it would be great to see what if any options we can order ala carte on the 1SA car.
I heard there weren't any. Not even XM.

miscreant
06-16-04, 06:32 PM
Also i remember Mark La Nave or Bob Lutz saying that there would be a spoiler delete option on the Performance packages and that there would be different top speeds for each due to rear end lift on the non spoiler equipped cars.

But, I see no spoiler delete option available.
That's because the QAF, as of right now, is a late availability option. They'll probably add the delete soon.


Also it would be great to see what if any options we can order ala carte on the 1SA car.
I heard there weren't any. Not even XM.
Nothing can be added to the 1SA at all (except extra cost paint).

rayainsw
06-17-04, 08:49 AM
"1SE and above is V8s."

Understand - but I have seen lists of what equipment / options are in 1SF (lots) and 1SG (more) - but have not yet seen a list for 1SE.

Thanks,
- Ray

rayainsw
06-17-04, 01:09 PM
Plowed through the order guide – twice.


Looks to me like 1SE includes:


Memory Pkg – A45
Heated Front Seats – KA1
Heated Rear Seats – KA6
Sound System – YQ2
Leather Heated Steering Wheel – NR7
Homelink – VG1
Wood Trim (some) – B19
Electrochrome rearview mirror w/compass – DD7


Not a sunroof.


Plus ability to order some additional options (sunroof) separately.
But some (LSD) you still cannot order with ‘just’ the 1SE.

Interesting. (Sort of.)


But this is really still a guess.


- Ray
Still waiting for “Build My Caddy” / STS to be added to their web site . . .

SARANTCADDY1
06-17-04, 01:11 PM
Hey, Miscreant, isn't the 1SE package standard on the V8??? And if so, what's that $2845 for? That would certainly make the starting price more than $47,495. I'm confused... :hmm:

By the way, did u watch the IDL program on Tuesday?

miscreant
06-17-04, 01:46 PM
Hey, Miscreant, isn't the 1SE package standard on the V8??? And if so, what's that $2845 for? That would certainly make the starting price more than $47,495. I'm confused... :hmm:
Yes, me as well (confused). There has been indication of a 1SD base package for the V8, but it's not available yet or was possibly nix'd?


By the way, did u watch the IDL program on Tuesday?
Yeah, taped it, too.

rayainsw
06-17-04, 02:22 PM
Current pattern orders for STS V8 show:

17098 V8 LUXURY PLUS 1SE w/option: N93

17099 V8 LUXURY ELITE 1SE w/options: CF5 N93

N93 – polished aluminum wheels – same size: 17 x 7.5

CF5 – Sunroof


- Ray
Wondering when all this 'official' pricing / availability will actually be 'public' . . .

miscreant
06-17-04, 03:13 PM
Hey, Miscreant, isn't the 1SE package standard on the V8??? And if so, what's that $2845 for? That would certainly make the starting price more than $47,495. I'm confused... :hmm:

By the way, did u watch the IDL program on Tuesday?
Just confirmed, 1SD (base) V8 is on national constraint. Probably late availability.

SARANTCADDY1
06-17-04, 04:00 PM
So does that mean that 1SD includes all standard equipment, such as heated and ventilated front seats, memory seats, etc...? According to GM Autobook, there is no 1SD (maybe I'm blind or something??). Can you get to the bottom of this, Ron?

chris :wtf:

miscreant
06-17-04, 06:19 PM
So does that mean that 1SD includes all standard equipment, such as heated and ventilated front seats, memory seats, etc...? According to GM Autobook, there is no 1SD (maybe I'm blind or something??). Can you get to the bottom of this, Ron?

chris :wtf:My guess is that the 1SD is still up in the air. I would assume the $2845 of the E package was for those things listed as package content (like on Autobook). It may be an internal test market to decide is the 1SD becomes a reality on the V8. If 1SE's sell real well, they may just end up making that the base package in 2006 or such. But announcing, or leaving room for, the 1SD allows them to introduce it if for some reason the feedback is for a $47,000 V8 instead of $50,000 one...This is very similiar to what they did for the CTS in 2004 (and now look at the packages for 2005) and what they DID NOT do for the 2004 SRX (no base V8)...

rayainsw
06-18-04, 12:14 AM
Looks like (on KBB) that you MUST order (at least) the 1SE.
- Ray
So - MSRP minimum = over $50K . . .

rayainsw
06-18-04, 12:16 AM
OTOH - KBB shows EPA highway = 26 mpg for V8 w/3.42.

- Ray
Thinking that (at least) is pretty reasonable . . .

miscreant
06-18-04, 01:28 AM
Looks like (on KBB) that you MUST order (at least) the 1SE.
- Ray
So - MSRP minimum = over $50K . . .
Right, at this time, the 1SD base package is not available.

tdogg5184
06-21-04, 10:30 PM
miscreant,
So any word yet on if I will be able to get AWD without the huge option package (1SG)? I would love to have AWD drive but can i get it seperatly, or do i have to pay 62k for my new sts?

Brett
06-21-04, 10:42 PM
here is this weeks distribution updates, no mention of widening awd availability

Effective 6/21/2004, the following changes will be made to the Vehicle Order Guide:


Interior section-(U2K) XM Satellite Radio, changed availability for V6 1SB from "black box" to "A" with a new footnote number 1 that reads "Included and only available with (PDL) Premium Upgrade Package". Old footnote #1 changes to footnote #2 for V6 1SC and V8 1SE, 1SF and 1SG.
Interior section(UG1) Universal transmitter, changed availability for V6 1SB from "black box" to "A" with a new footnote number 1 that reads "Included and only available with (PDL) Premium Upgrade Package".
Interior section-(B19) Wood Trim Package, changed availability for V6 1SB from "black box" to "A" with a new footnote number 1 that reads "Included and only available with (PDL) Premium Upgrade Package".
Interior section-Added (PDL) Premium Upgrade Package, includes (U2K) XM Satellite Radio, (UG1) Universal transmitter and (B19) Wood Trim Package as an available option with V6 1SB only.
Interior section-Added (AP9) Truck Convenience Package included, "black box" with V6 1SB and 1SC and V8 1SE, 1SF and 1SG.
Exterior section-Performance Handling Package, added Free Flow RPO Code (QAF). Package description has changed to read "includes Tires, P235/45ZR18 18" Michelin Pilot Sport, front and P255/45ZR18 rear (summer only tires) and Performance Brake Linings". This package is available on V8 1SG with a footnote 1 that reads, "Requires (M22) Transmission, 5-speed automatic, RWD. Not available with (MV3) Transmission, 5-speed automatic, AWD".
Exterior section-(Q14) Wheels, 2 - 17" x 7.5" (43.32 cm x 19.1 cm) front, 2- 17" x 8" (43.32 cm x 20.3 cm) rear, cast aluminum, painted, 7-spoke, changed availability for V6 1SB from "open box 1" to "--". Removed footnote #1 entirely.
Exterior section-(Q13) Wheels, 2 - 17" x 7.5" (43.32 cm x 19.1 cm) front, 2- 17" x 8" (43.32 cm x 20.3 cm) rear, cast aluminum, polished, 7-spoke, changed availability for V6 1SB from "A" to "black box". Also moved (Q13) into the Ref. Only RPO Code column.
Exterior section-Removed (N88) Wheels, 4 - 17" x 7.5" (43.32 cm x 19.1 cm) cast aluminum painted, 7-spoke entirely from order guide.
Exterior section-(N93) Wheels, 4 - 17" x 7.5" (43.32 cm x 19.1 cm) aluminum polished, changed availability for V8 1SE from "A" to "black box". Also moved (N93) into the Ref. Only RPO Code column.
Mechanical section-(V03) Performance Cooling Package, changed availability from "--" to "A" for V6 1SC.

miscreant
06-21-04, 11:18 PM
miscreant,
So any word yet on if I will be able to get AWD without the huge option package (1SG)? I would love to have AWD drive but can i get it seperatly, or do i have to pay 62k for my new sts?
AWD is only available with the 1SG package.

tdogg5184
06-22-04, 01:04 AM
You think that maybe that will change before the end of this year?

miscreant
06-22-04, 02:04 AM
You think that maybe that will change before the end of this year?
probably not by the end of this year. You probably won't see a single change the first year. The first year is always part of the test market.

It's important to understand that the STS ordering is already extremely complex. Understand that GM has to not oly be concerned with what customers want, but also what dealerships can order (as that's what most customers buy - off the lot). So you have a V6 and a V8 car, 6 packages, freeflow options, and 9 colors! I'm stressing just trying to figure out what cars to order! It would be different if there were only 100 dealers in the US, and each could have 50 STSs on the lot. But we'll probably have 15 STSs at most on the lot at any given time (at least once they cool down from the initial buyers), just like most other dealerships. So the limitation from packages may seem like another "american" thing to do, and many people will get upset that they can't just order "this" with "that" or "this" without "that", if it were truly done that way, most people would have to order their car from the factory and wait 6-8 weeks for it - something GM and most customer's are not in the market to do.

If the AWD option does go well, you might see it offered free-flow down the road...

tdogg5184
06-22-04, 12:51 PM
Cool thanks for the heads up i guess we will just have to wait and see.

rayainsw
07-26-04, 04:53 PM
Well, I am certain that much smarter people than me run Caddy marketing, but here is my take on pricing:

A – Almost fully loaded STS (1SG, Perf. Handling - but no HUD / adaptive cruise) at $61+K or so is certainly a lot of money for most folks. It definitely is for me. (See below.)

B – I do not see another American competitor for the STS. 300+ HP / TQ, RWD, Luxury as well as Sport, etc. The reviews have been quite favorable – but both C+D and R&T road tests did refer to the pricing.

C – As only a single reference point on the curve, another vehicle of potential interest to me - probably sometime late next year, is the Jaguar S-Type R. This is a sporting 4-door sedan with 390 hp and 399 TQ, a 6-speed automatic and a pretty aggressive suspension / brake package. Equipped as close to comparable as I can specify, their MSRPs are within a few bucks of each other. (’05 Jag = $61,296 = interestingly, this is over $4K less than an equivalent ’04 version.) The biggest drawback to me personally is the lack of a ‘man-u-matic’ feature for the automatic gearbox. (Sigh.) But it certainly is one quick car. I have seen reviews that suggest 13.X quarter mile times at over 100 mph. Yummy. And my experience driving a few contemporary Jags suggests that it would be a rewarding car to drive.

D – One other potentially interesting vehicle to me is the Audi A6 4.2. It appears that a well equipped version of the ’05, when introduced later this Fall, will likely be in $55 - 56K range. Although it is too early for published tests of US spec. A6 models, I think this new A6 in V8 form is likely to provide similar accommodations and performance to the RWD STS. [AWD, for me, currently living in North Georgia, is of no particular interest. And the additional weight is actually a small drawback, but clearly no RWD version of the A6 will be built, so . . .]

Anyway, my point here is not to say that the STS pricing is wrong – or right. But it certainly does not strike me as a screaming bargain. I could probably afford something like $57 - 58K, assuming some nominal discount from MSRP with a, ummm, “lifestyle change” here and there. But, I am just not yet convinced that the additional value is in line with the additional price being asked, for me. Let me repeat that: for me!

Caveat. My ‘benchmark’ regarding the additional value includes this context: Now, I currently drive a Lincoln – an LS V8 Sport, purchased new – for approx. $33K early this year. This was a leftover 2003 model, equipped as I wanted it, and available for roughly Invoice less $6,000 – without spending much time or effort negotiating. And, while I will concede that an ’05 STS is a significantly better vehicle, in many respects, I personally do not see $24 +/- K more value in this vehicle compared to what I now drive. For me.

OTOH, an ’05 STS, if one with acceptable colors and options could be purchased new, as a leftover in the early months of 2006 (almost 18 months from now) for invoice less say $8 - 10,000 (meaning something like $46 to $48K) then – well, we’ll see if / when that time comes . . . And if I am in the market.

So – the STS may make my short list for next purchase.
Or not.
Just my $.03 worth, precisely adjusted for years of inflation.
- Ray
Still intending to drive one . . .

miscreant
07-26-04, 05:25 PM
Well, I am certain that much smarter people than me run Caddy marketing, but here is my take on pricing:

A – Almost fully loaded STS (1SG, Perf. Handling - but no HUD / adaptive cruise) at $61+K or so is certainly a lot of money for most folks. It definitely is for me. (See below.)

B – I do not see another American competitor for the STS. 300+ HP / TQ, RWD, Luxury as well as Sport, etc. The reviews have been quite favorable – but both C+D and R&T road tests did refer to the pricing.

C – As only a single reference point on the curve, another vehicle of potential interest to me - probably sometime late next year, is the Jaguar S-Type R. This is a sporting 4-door sedan with 390 hp and 399 TQ, a 6-speed automatic and a pretty aggressive suspension / brake package. Equipped as close to comparable as I can specify, their MSRPs are within a few bucks of each other. (’05 Jag = $61,296 = interestingly, this is over $4K less than an equivalent ’04 version.) The biggest drawback to me personally is the lack of a ‘man-u-matic’ feature for the automatic gearbox. (Sigh.) But it certainly is one quick car. I have seen reviews that suggest 13.X quarter mile times at over 100 mph. Yummy. And my experience driving a few contemporary Jags suggests that it would be a rewarding car to drive.

D – One other potentially interesting vehicle to me is the Audi A6 4.2. It appears that a well equipped version of the ’05, when introduced later this Fall, will likely be in $55 - 56K range. Although it is too early for published tests of US spec. A6 models, I think this new A6 in V8 form is likely to provide similar accommodations and performance to the RWD STS. [AWD, for me, currently living in North Georgia, is of no particular interest. And the additional weight is actually a small drawback, but clearly no RWD version of the A6 will be built, so . . .]

Anyway, my point here is not to say that the STS pricing is wrong – or right. But it certainly does not strike me as a screaming bargain. I could probably afford something like $57 - 58K, assuming some nominal discount from MSRP with a, ummm, “lifestyle change” here and there. But, I am just not yet convinced that the additional value is in line with the additional price being asked, for me. Let me repeat that: for me!

Caveat. My ‘benchmark’ regarding the additional value includes this context: Now, I currently drive a Lincoln – an LS V8 Sport, purchased new – for approx. $33K early this year. This was a leftover 2003 model, equipped as I wanted it, and available for roughly Invoice less $6,000 – without spending much time or effort negotiating. And, while I will concede that an ’05 STS is a significantly better vehicle, in many respects, I personally do not see $24 +/- K more value in this vehicle compared to what I now drive. For me.

OTOH, an ’05 STS, if one with acceptable colors and options could be purchased new, as a leftover in the early months of 2006 (almost 18 months from now) for invoice less say $8 - 10,000 (meaning something like $46 to $48K) then – well, we’ll see if / when that time comes . . . And if I am in the market.

So – the STS may make my short list for next purchase.
Or not.
Just my $.03 worth, precisely adjusted for years of inflation.
- Ray
Still intending to drive one . . .

I think too many people focus on the 1SF and 1SG models that push the V8 to the $58+ range. These are not the vehicles to compare pricing on, unless you are also going to do the same of the competitors. So many of these posts (not directed at you) list the "base" or "starting" prices of the competitors, then compare to the 1SF and 1SG prices of the STS. Basically, the car to compare is the 1SE V8, around $50K MSRP. Option for option it compares favorably or less than the entry level competition.

Lest we forget that it's a Cadillac. I think the pricing structure of the new Cadillacs are bringing more affordable cars into the mix, and subsequently causing more of a question on pricing.

And lastly, the most important point of all, is that the comparison of the car itself to it's predecessor (remember 2 whole model years) nets MORE of a car, at ~$4000 less money.

rayainsw
07-28-04, 02:26 PM
"I think too many people focus on the 1SF and 1SG models that push the V8 to the $58+ range. These are not the vehicles to compare pricing on, unless you are also going to do the same of the competitors. "

I was actually trying (may not have succeeded) to compare similarly equipped models. The S-Type R is pretty well loaded - I added the Nav system. I just think it is very interesting that this Jag, with a bunch more HP / TQ and a 6-speed trans. lists for almost an identical amount. One could certainly argue that one or the other is potentially superior in one or another aspect, but they certainly seem similar to me. And if sheer acceleration is of interest . . .

And the new A6 V8 prices look pretty aggressive. I again tried to option one as close to a 1SG STS as I could.

If I did not achieve a pure apples – to – apples comparison, no disrespect to Caddy was intended.

- Ray
Also interested to see how the STS-V will look compared to the S-Type R . . .

miscreant
07-28-04, 03:25 PM
"I think too many people focus on the 1SF and 1SG models that push the V8 to the $58+ range. These are not the vehicles to compare pricing on, unless you are also going to do the same of the competitors. "

I was actually trying (may not have succeeded) to compare similarly equipped models. The S-Type R is pretty well loaded - I added the Nav system. I just think it is very interesting that this Jag, with a bunch more HP / TQ and a 6-speed trans. lists for almost an identical amount. One could certainly argue that one or the other is potentially superior in one or another aspect, but they certainly seem similar to me. And if sheer acceleration is of interest . . .

And the new A6 V8 prices look pretty aggressive. I again tried to option one as close to a 1SG STS as I could.

If I did not achieve a pure apples – to – apples comparison, no disrespect to Caddy was intended.

- Ray
Also interested to see how the STS-V will look compared to the S-Type R . . .
Other than the HP difference, which seems to really be the only thing other than money that separates the higher priced cars from the STS, the STS in 1SG format with adaptive cruise is $1000 cheaper than the S-type R with adaptive cruise. So they are close. But keep in mind that the S-type (and R) is continually compared to the CTS and CTS-V, and is smaller than the STS...The STS kinda fits in between an S-type and the XJ...

Cadillac has positioned the STS quiet interestingly. Much like they did the CTS (3 series price with 5 series size and performance, or C class price with E class size and performance), they have made the STS the next level - 5 series price *approaching* 7 series size and performance, or E class price *approaching* S class size and performance...It's been no secret that Cadillac's intention was to position their cars between.

In the last few years only 3 *American* cars have been able to compete DIRECTLY with the import luxury sport class of vehicles, and in many and most cases, BEAT them - The Cadillac CTS, SRX, and STS...For the first time in a long time, it's not all about BMW and Mercedes...It's actually, lately, all about Cadillac... :D

gothicaleigh
07-28-04, 05:46 PM
In the last few years only 3 *American* cars have been able to compete DIRECTLY with the import luxury sport class of vehicles, and in many and most cases, BEAT them - The Cadillac CTS, SRX, and STS...For the first time in a long time, it's not all about BMW and Mercedes...It's actually, lately, all about Cadillac... :D

I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing that. Also, make that 4 cars. The XLR is at the top of it's game also. :)

As for the Jaguar S-Type R. It is a direct competitor to the CTS-V in terms of size and performance. Everyone always assumes that the CTS is a much smaller car than it actually is. I don't know if it is due to it's design camoflaging it's length or that early reviews incorrectly compared it to smaller cars like the 3 series BMW, but it is more of a 5 series competitor than a 3.

Here's a comparison of the CTS-V versus the Jaguar S-type R:
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/112_0404_400club/

Slick V
07-28-04, 09:13 PM
Its probably thought of being smaller because its the cheapest Cadillac. BMW, Mercedes, and Audi all have there cheapest cars being small, so im guessing people just think its around the size of the 3 or c classes.

megeebee
08-02-04, 04:44 PM
Preliminary start-of-production prices.

Base Model Prices
Model...Model Description......................MSRP(c).......... .Destination
6DW29...STS V6 Luxury Sports Sedan.............$40,300.00.........$695.00
6DC29...STS V8 Luxury Sports Sedan.............$46,800.00.........$695.00

Option Packages
Optioncode......Description....................... ......MSRP(c)
1SA.............1SA Standard Package....................$0.00
1SB.............1SB Luxury Package......................$2,390.00
1SC.............1SC Luxury Performance Package..........$8,595.00
1SE.............1SE Luxury Package......................$2,845.00
1SF.............1SF Luxury Performance Package..........$11,065.00
1SG.............1SG Premium Lux Performance Pkg.........$13,115.00
PCR.............Premium Upgrade Package.................$730.00
QAF.............Performance Handling Package............$795.00

Additional Options
OptionCode...Description.......................... ......MSRP(c)
K59..........Adaptive Cruise Control....................$2,300.00
MV3..........All Wheel Drive............................$1,900.00
V03..........Performance Cooling Package................$150.00
K05..........Engine Block Heater........................$100.00
29U..........Red Line Premium Color.....................$995.00
98U..........White Diamond Premium Color................$995.00
R8E..........Gas Guzzler Tax (w/MV3 AWD)................$1,000.00
IL3..........Premium Tuscany Leather Seats..............$1,200.00
U2K..........XM Satellite...............................$325.00
CF5..........Express Open/Close Sunroof.................$1,200.00

Dear Miscreant;
Besides the "Additional Options", are any other features available individually, apart from a package? What is the "Premium Upgrade Package"? What is the "Performance Handling Package"?
Also, and I know this is alot to ask, Do you have any idea how the factory is planning the launch production mix. Will they all be fully optioned Northstars, or will there be a healthy mix of V6's? I read in Automotive News not long ago that the SRX had a slow launch because, after advertising a V6 base price, most all units were, at first, fully optioned V8's carrying a much higher sticker. The article stated that Cadillac wanted to avoid this with the STS.

rayainsw
08-03-04, 08:11 AM
RE: PCR:
" PCR Premium Upgrade Package, includes (AP9) Trunk
Convenience Package, (U2K) Sound system feature,
XM Satellite Radio, (UG1) Universal transmitter,
Homelink and (B19) Wood Trim Package
1 - Not available for 2005 Model Year start-up."

RE: "What is the "Performance Handling Package"?

QAF Performance Handling Package, includes Tires,
P235/45ZR18 18" Michelin Pilot Sport, front and
P255/45ZR18 rear (summer only tires) and
Performance Brake Linings
1 - Not available for 2005 Model Year start-up. Requires
(M22) Transmission, 5-speed automatic, RWD. Not
available with (MV3) Transmission, 5-speed automatic,

RE: Initial 'mix' - My local dealer sent me an e-mail yesterday, saying, in part:

"You can expect that the first units will be fully loaded V-8 units. "

- Ray
Waiting - not so patiently . . .

rayainsw
08-03-04, 08:14 AM
PCR - further, my understanding from the updated ordering guide is that this option package is ONLY available (whenever it becomes available) on the V6 w/1SB.
- Ray
Soooo confused . . .

miscreant
08-03-04, 11:31 AM
Dear Miscreant;
Besides the "Additional Options", are any other features available individually, apart from a package? What is the "Premium Upgrade Package"? What is the "Performance Handling Package"?
Also, and I know this is alot to ask, Do you have any idea how the factory is planning the launch production mix. Will they all be fully optioned Northstars, or will there be a healthy mix of V6's? I read in Automotive News not long ago that the SRX had a slow launch because, after advertising a V6 base price, most all units were, at first, fully optioned V8's carrying a much higher sticker. The article stated that Cadillac wanted to avoid this with the STS.

Those packages are explained in the other post. There are no additional options. Many people complain that the STS is packaged, instead of having freeflow individual options, but I can guarantee that the packages make it easier to shop for a car. When you allow too many individual options on a vehicle, the customer tends to never find the exact car they are looking for and are forced to order the vehicle and wait 6-8 weeks. At least with the packaging, you know what to expect and know what you shop for. Imagine the number of combinations a dealer would have to order/carry if you had 10 colors, 3 interior colors, and 20 different options that could be mixed and matched...And in the end, you'd probably find the same things *packaged* up when the dealer ordered their cars...

Second, you should expect to see, *other than* the demos that were ordered a long time ago, 1SBs and 1SEs, with 1SC and 1SFs bringing up the rear. You will not see the loaded out V8s like the 1SFs with all the other options or the 1SG, because they have not been available to order. the 1SG isn't even orderable yet. The 1SB and the 1SE has been free as far as constraints are concerned, and the 1SC and 1SF have been constrained at about 25% of production at most. Also don't expect to see very many 1SB or 1SE cars with sunroofs - for the most part they have only be available in the 1SC and 1SF packages.

PCR is only on the 1SB. If and when the 1SD (V8 base) comes out, it might be on it, too.

megeebee
08-03-04, 12:51 PM
To both "rayainsw" and "miscreant"; Thank you for your time and information. You're the best! The lease on my '03 CTS expires in April of next year. I'll visit my dealer in February and place an order for a V6- Luxury Package and a sunroof. Moonstone I think. Light gray interior.
Thanks again!

rayainsw
08-06-04, 10:04 AM
"Imagine the number of combinations a dealer would have to order/carry if you had 10 colors, 3 interior colors, and 20 different options that could be mixed and matched..."

OK - But -

Powertrain combinations 1965

From the Car and Driver 1965 Annual issue:

Pontiac Tempest / GTO

With 215ci 6 140 HP (!) - 3 speed manual, 4 speed manual, 2 speed automatic(!)
Final drive ratios: 2.56 / 2.93 / 3.08

With 326ci 8 250 HP – same 3 trans. options
Final drive ratios: 2.56 / 2.93 / 3.08 / 3.23

With 389ci 8 335 HP – same 3 trans. options
Final drive ratios: 3.23 / 3.36 / 3.55 / 3.90

With 389ci 8 360 HP – same 3 trans. options
Final drive ratios: 3.55 / 3.90

Note: Not all final drive ratios are available with all trans. options.

So – looking ONLY at powertrain combinations, I calculate a minimum of 12 powertrain combinations BEFORE adding possible final drive ratio options into the mix.

(And there were clearly many, many other options and color choices, etc!)

The 2005 STS has 2 powertrain options – and final drive rations apparently fixed based on engine / trans. / RWD / AWD choice.

My point here is simply that with 1965 technology (?) and ordering procedures GM was apparently able to stock dealers with a sufficient variety to meet consumer demand. So – why, with 40 additional years of experience and technology development, can’t Caddy provide us with the ability to pick and choose exactly the options we want?

I certainly understand the convenience to the dealer of grouping options into packages. But as a consumer, I prefer more choice. And I would be willing to wait a number of weeks to order one if one could not be located, if it had all and only what I actually wanted for optional equipment.

Cheers,
- Ray
Spitting into the wind, I expect . . .

miscreant
08-06-04, 10:57 AM
"Imagine the number of combinations a dealer would have to order/carry if you had 10 colors, 3 interior colors, and 20 different options that could be mixed and matched..."

OK - But -

Powertrain combinations 1965

From the Car and Driver 1965 Annual issue:

Pontiac Tempest / GTO

With 215ci 6 140 HP (!) - 3 speed manual, 4 speed manual, 2 speed automatic(!)
Final drive ratios: 2.56 / 2.93 / 3.08

With 326ci 8 250 HP – same 3 trans. options
Final drive ratios: 2.56 / 2.93 / 3.08 / 3.23

With 389ci 8 335 HP – same 3 trans. options
Final drive ratios: 3.23 / 3.36 / 3.55 / 3.90

With 389ci 8 360 HP – same 3 trans. options
Final drive ratios: 3.55 / 3.90

Note: Not all final drive ratios are available with all trans. options.

So – looking ONLY at powertrain combinations, I calculate a minimum of 12 powertrain combinations BEFORE adding possible final drive ratio options into the mix.

(And there were clearly many, many other options and color choices, etc!)

The 2005 STS has 2 powertrain options – and final drive rations apparently fixed based on engine / trans. / RWD / AWD choice.

My point here is simply that with 1965 technology (?) and ordering procedures GM was apparently able to stock dealers with a sufficient variety to meet consumer demand. So – why, with 40 additional years of experience and technology development, can’t Caddy provide us with the ability to pick and choose exactly the options we want?

I certainly understand the convenience to the dealer of grouping options into packages. But as a consumer, I prefer more choice. And I would be willing to wait a number of weeks to order one if one could not be located, if it had all and only what I actually wanted for optional equipment.

Cheers,
- Ray
Spitting into the wind, I expect . . .

1) People want it now - back then, 25%-50% of car sales were orders, or you "took what you got" - people are more picky and choosy these days by far.

2) There are 100x more dealers now, and substantially more models per make- Which means that the dealers carry less of one particular model because there are other dealers to sell to those people - the inventory is spread out more.

Just for instance, I sell about 15 CTSs per month. That means I carry, or try to carry 30 CTSs on my lot at one time. Even with 30 CTSs, I still can't carry a good variety of 10 colors, 3 interior colors, 3 package lines, and options. I'd have to order 100+ cars to have that kind of variety - but I can't afford to do that. Now imagine a car that has a V6 and V8 and 7 packages alone...

tdogg5184
08-16-04, 03:39 PM
Would it be safe to say i could maybe find a 2005 STS AWD in January sitting on the lot, or will i have to wait some more?

gothicaleigh
08-16-04, 04:54 PM
Your best bet would be to order one.
Popular new cars don't usually sit on the lot. Either the dealer sells them, or trades them to someone who can. If the first year sales from the other redesigned Caddys is any indication, the STS will be hard for dealers to keep in stock for the first 6 months...