: 2009 V in 2008 Car and Driver Lightning Lap



jasaero
09-25-08, 04:31 PM
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/the_lightning_lap_2008_feature?cid=320

I'll let you go through to the link, as to not spoil any of the results. Pretty impressive though I must say. It's all at Virginia International Raceway.

terminal Velocity
09-25-08, 05:47 PM
Very impressive. Again, it's too bad that the thing is soo heavy. Notice it's weakest point was the Patriot course section. If they ran without that section, the V would've beaten the M and AMG by an even greater margin. Oh how I wish they had this drivetrain in the 1st gen car...

NormV
09-25-08, 07:09 PM
V2 lost to the C63 too? Can't see it on the Crackberry!

Norm

jasaero
09-25-08, 07:16 PM
V2 lost to the C63 too? Can't see it on the Crackberry!

Norm

Lost only to the base Vette in it's price bracket. Was the fastest sedan and fastest car that wasn't an all out sports car by design.

jasaero
09-25-08, 07:26 PM
Just noticed th data from the same test at same track and everything last year has the M6. The V2 is 6 seconds faster than the M6 from the year before. The year before times were a bit slower, but the z51 vette was only 2 seconds and some change off this years time with a 36hp deficiency due to LS2-LS3 change. Would have been nice to inclue the M5 or M6 this year just for comparison to the CTS-V2 on same day and same driver and such. Sure that is coming from some article soon enough though.

jasaero
09-25-08, 09:03 PM
Here is the list of cars from previous years that the CTS-V2 beats in this particular test.

Lotus Exige S
Audi R8
Porsche 911 Turbo
Ford Shelby GT500
Lotus Elise
Chevrolet Corvette Z51
Porsche Cayman S
BMW M6
BMW 335i Coupe
Ford Shelby GT500
Audi RS4
BMW Z4 M Coupe
Nissan 350Z Track
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR
Pontiac Solstice GXP
Mazdaspeed 3
Dodge Charger SRT8
Mazda RX-8
Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged
Ford Mustang GT
Mini Cooper S
Volkswagen GTI
Honda Civic Si
Mazda MX-5

NormV
09-25-08, 09:04 PM
Was this full course? Under :20's?

Guess I'll have to wait until i am on the pc again!

Norm

CVP33
09-25-08, 09:08 PM
The vid's and time look like full course. 17 turns, 3.3 miles. Most fun I've ever had getting beat by V's in my SRT-8.

jasaero
09-25-08, 10:19 PM
They use the 4.2 mile Grand Course. Really, if you look at the data, the V isn't extremely strong in the handling oriented sectors. Still near the top of it's class, but behind the M3 a lot. It's really close even in these more, "time to loose" rather than time to gain sections really though. No matter how you look at it, it's an impressive car on a track.

terminal Velocity
09-26-08, 12:49 AM
They use the 4.2 mile Grand Course. Really, if you look at the data, the V isn't extremely strong in the handling oriented sectors. Still near the top of it's class, but behind the M3 a lot. It's really close even in these more, "time to loose" rather than time to gain sections really though. No matter how you look at it, it's an impressive car on a track.Yeah, what V2 owners are wise to do is keep the car on fast, momentum tracks such as VIR, the Glen and Summit Point's Jefferson course. The V2 wouldn't like Summit Point's Shenandoah course as much...

BigFred
09-26-08, 12:50 AM
We've expected the V to better most of these cars, but to see some of these names go down excite me:

M3
C63
Elise
Evo & WRX
ISF

This car is no joke. I think comparing it to the ISF shows how far the V has come. ISF is a rookie effort, a fast car, and probably a pretty damn good car; but that's the difference between good and great.

HPCC
09-26-08, 01:03 AM
We've expected the V to better most of these cars, but to see some of these names go down excite me:

M3
C63
Elise
Evo & WRX
ISF

This car is no joke. I think comparing it to the ISF shows how far the V has come. ISF is a rookie effort, a fast car, and probably a pretty damn good car; but that's the difference between good and great.Indeed--and in ways that could definitely end in tears. They said the IS-F "down the road in a serious hurry" but then became darty and dramatic, eroding driver confidence, whereas the V had "Remarkable balance, allowing the driver to drift and pivot this big sedan with ease." :thumbsup:

lawfive
09-26-08, 02:09 AM
Nice!

NormV
09-26-08, 11:58 AM
I guess the grand course shortens the straight after oak tree where the V2 might shine. With 400hp you can see 145+ MPH using the full back stretch. Trukk or V-sam might know better by looking at the data chart.

Watch the video and guess which heavy car went off in T-10 before oak tree?! D'oh! 4300 lbs baby! T10 is a tricky, off camber, turn with a mix a speed I do know one Porsche GT that wrecked there during a club event. :)

Norm

odla
09-26-08, 12:55 PM
link is not working

HPCC
09-27-08, 04:48 AM
...Watch the video and guess which heavy car went off in T-10 before oak tree?! D'oh! 4300 lbs baby! T10 is a tricky, off camber, turn with a mix a speed I do know one Porsche GT that wrecked there during a club event...Now was that the car's fault or did the driver just run out of talent? :D

NormV
09-27-08, 10:40 AM
Now was that the car's fault or did the driver just run out of talent? :D

If you've spent any time turning the wheel at high speed you'll know that nothing over comes physics. The heaviest cars in it's class. Also one of biggest.

Norm

HPCC
09-27-08, 12:41 PM
If you've spent any time turning the wheel at high speed you'll know that nothing over comes physics...Oh yes, I've learned a few practical physics lessons the hard way--on two wheels. But the times I went off while pushing hard had nothing to do with the bike and everything to do with me.

The Tony Show
09-27-08, 12:44 PM
If you've spent any time turning the wheel at high speed you'll know that nothing over comes physics. The heaviest cars in it's class. Also one of biggest.

Norm.....and a situation that 99% of CTS-V owners will never duplicate on the street. Even among die hard forum posters only about 10% actually take their cars out on the track on a regular basis, so figure that equals somewhere around 1% of the general buying public.

Joe Q. Public won't be taking turn 10 at VIR- he'll be doing 0-60 in 4.0 from stoplight to stoplight until he gets a ticket, and that weight won't be bothering him a bit as he annihilates most everything he goes up against. :lol:

NormV
09-27-08, 04:24 PM
Don't have to be a race car driver to discover a car's limits. In the hands of professionals at this magazine even the extra mass can catch them off guard. Imagine what happens in a emergency manuever or lane change the weight really shows.

Norm


.....and a situation that 99% of CTS-V owners will never duplicate on the street. Even among die hard forum posters only about 10% actually take their cars out on the track on a regular basis, so figure that equals somewhere around 1% of the general buying public.

Joe Q. Public won't be taking turn 10 at VIR- he'll be doing 0-60 in 4.0 from stoplight to stoplight until he gets a ticket, and that weight won't be bothering him a bit as he annihilates most everything he goes up against. :lol:

The Tony Show
09-27-08, 04:49 PM
I see your point, but the public won't have the Stabilitrak disabled like the magazine testers do. If the car gets sideways on public roads, the Stabilitrak will catch it and save the driver's bacon- I know, because it's happened to me a few times. :suspense:

jasaero
09-27-08, 05:13 PM
Don't have to be a race car driver to discover a car's limits. In the hands of professionals at this magazine even the extra mass can catch them off guard. Imagine what happens in a emergency manuever or lane change the weight really shows.

Norm

What you are talking about is usually shown most through rhythm sections. That was test most in the V weakest sector compared to the M3 in sector 4. BUT, it beat or matched A LOT of LIGHTER vehicles even in that sector. I am sure power is handy even in that sector and that contributes some, but still impressive given that a lot of those lighter cars probably also ride horribly for a daily commute or relaxed outing compared to this caddy.

HiTechRV
09-27-08, 06:47 PM
If you've spent any time turning the wheel at high speed you'll know that nothing over comes physics. The heaviest cars in it's class. Also one of biggest.

Norm

Wasn't that the argument given early on here as to why the V2 would NEVER be as good on the track as a V1, regardless of HP?

There is more to physics than simple weight. Better and better independent control of how each tire interacts with the road is how cars like the V2 and GT-R beat lighter cars on the track. And there are a lot more gains to be had in this realm in the future.

In this era of wildly advanced suspensions and stability control systems, a heavier car often beats a lighter less sophisticated car.

thebigjimsho
09-27-08, 07:14 PM
Don't have to be a race car driver to discover a car's limits. In the hands of professionals at this magazine even the extra mass can catch them off guard. Imagine what happens in a emergency manuever or lane change the weight really shows.

NormYeah, but the odds are that someone who loses control on public roads did so because their driver's IQ dictates they know no better. They most likely would've wiped out in the Cobalt as well...

NormV
09-27-08, 09:13 PM
Yeah, but the odds are that someone who loses control on public roads did so because their driver's IQ dictates they know no better. They most likely would've wiped out in the Cobalt as well...

Exactly! Add more weight and momentum is not on your side. :) Front wheel drive is a little more forgiving as you and I can both attest too.


I see your point, but the public won't have the Stabilitrak disabled like the magazine testers do. If the car gets sideways on public roads, the Stabilitrak will catch it and save the driver's bacon- I know, because it's happened to me a few times. :suspense:

Usually, but not always. If you look at collisions there are less and less of side impacts, and more and more of frontal impacts when there are no other cars involved. Insurance industry will back that up. The electronics do their job but as Jim said it is usually the faulty connection between the steering wheel and accelerator pedal. :) I could not find where C&D changed the electronic handling to get better results on their website.


What you are talking about is usually shown most through rhythm sections. That was test most in the V weakest sector compared to the M3 in sector 4. BUT, it beat or matched A LOT of LIGHTER vehicles even in that sector. I am sure power is handy even in that sector and that contributes some, but still impressive given that a lot of those lighter cars probably also ride horribly for a daily commute or relaxed outing compared to this caddy.

I've never been on Sector 4 but it looks like it is a quick up hill area. There is usually compression in the suspension on uphill sections which gives more grip Which explains why the V2 rocks through Sector 2 & 4 and matches the C6 and few others. Trukk was going at it on the Corvette Forums as they could not believe his car was exceeding their MPH in section 2. This is one of few places weight helps as a couple of us have seen.


Wasn't that the argument given early on here as to why the V2 would NEVER be as good on the track as a V1, regardless of HP?

There is more to physics than simple weight. Better and better independent control of how each tire interacts with the road is how cars like the V2 and GT-R beat lighter cars on the track. And there are a lot more gains to be had in this realm in the future.

In this era of wildly advanced suspensions and stability control systems, a heavier car often beats a lighter less sophisticated car.

If that was true the out dated M5 with less torque by almost 100 lbs. should have been sent home with it's tail between it's legs at Monticello in R&T. But it was not the case.

Andy was with me at Summit Point when we were following a couple of the V2 test mules. So my V1 weight was up with just headers and an intake. The electronic suspension(MRC) gives more choices, not the best choice.

Norm