: Newbie Q: When is AWD coming to CTS-V?



ucla95
09-20-08, 11:44 AM
Sorry if it's somewhere, but I searched and came up with nothing.

concorso
09-20-08, 02:31 PM
It was scheduled to be released before the RWD version, but the driveline docking mechanism wouldnt attach properly, so the awd effectively became fwd when you gave it throttle...
Theres been no word lately on if the awd will show up now or not...

WAT
09-20-08, 05:45 PM
AWD would be awesome for traction. But the added weight would be scary... 4500+ lbs? :holycrap:

Rich H
09-20-08, 08:21 PM
This topic has been beat to death on this forum. See the following link for one of the many threads:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/138939-awd-do-you-want-yes-no.html

But this is the first time I ever heard the V was "scheduled" to get an AWD drive train that never worked. Where's the beef??

Jpjr
09-21-08, 01:50 PM
AWD is still a legit question because from what I am told an AWD V was always planned until GM's finances and the economy took a major turn for the worse.

Unfortunately AWD adds weight and does nothing for MPG's, I'm sure the money would be better spent from a demand perspective by taking weight out of the vehicle or somehow making it more fuel efficient.

I think a smaller BLS? variant with AWD would be in much higher demand. Something to compete with the C class, A4, etc.

HPCC
09-21-08, 02:54 PM
...I'm sure the money would be better spent from a demand perspective by taking weight out of the vehicle or somehow making it more fuel efficient...Couldn't agree more, but it must be hard serving so many masters: very high performance, world-class driving experience, latest safety requirements, and...cost. It seems like everything in this elite class is over two tons now (even 2+2s like the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti and the Porsche Panamera--as exotic as they are--will also be right around two tons).

If I do anything to this car, it certainly won't be to primarily add power, but to save weight--like maybe a titanium exhaust system or something :D

Jpjr
09-21-08, 03:11 PM
Couldn't agree more, but it must be hard serving so many masters: very high performance, world-class driving experience, latest safety requirements, and...cost. It seems like everything in this elite class is over two tons now (even 2+2s like the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti and the Porsche Panamera--as exotic as they are--will also be right around two tons).

If I do anything to this car, it certainly won't be to primarily add power, but to save weight--like maybe a titanium exhaust system or something :D

Right. But I think the days of the 2+ ton flagship sedan may be coming to an end. It will all depend on demand, but a consumer move towards smaller cars could turn the CTS into the STS of the lineup..

Rich H
09-21-08, 03:50 PM
I have stated several times in the past on other threads that an AWD V2 would be a major development project for GM to get it right. But after driving a BMW 335XI a few a weeks ago I wonder how BMW was able to manage doing it so easily. Granted there is a huge difference in weight, HP, and torque between the 2 cars but the dividends AWD pays in standing start acceleration are well worth it for the 335XI. It's possible that the V2 is right on the upper edge of weight vs handling so that any additional weight added due to AWD will negate the benefits - but it certainly would be interesting to find out.

edsuski
09-21-08, 05:23 PM
Couldn't agree more, but it must be hard serving so many masters: very high performance, world-class driving experience, latest safety requirements, and...cost. It seems like everything in this elite class is over two tons now (even 2+2s like the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti and the Porsche Panamera--as exotic as they are--will also be right around two tons).

If I do anything to this car, it certainly won't be to primarily add power, but to save weight--like maybe a titanium exhaust system or something :D

I was able to reduce the weight of the V I have on order by nearly 100 lbs while improving handling, braking and saving money at the same time. How you ask - I deleted the sun roof. I understand that it adds about 100 lbs and, of course, it's location at the top of the car only lifts the center of gravity. I almost never open my current sun roof so it seemed like a reasonable trade off.

What are the easiest targets for further weight reduction (and before anyone else suggests it - I am on the CTS-V diet to drop 10 -20 :) )?

Lower mass and more importantly lower rotational inertia wheels.

Carbon fiber drive shaft.

Titanium exhaust system.

What else?

HiTechRV
09-21-08, 08:29 PM
My exhaust rotates only the smallest of amounts.... ;-)

Lighter wheels. Does the V have runcraps? If it does ditch them for some non runcrap PS2's to save a bunch of rotating mass.

AWD hurts the ability to turn, though it obviously helps acceleration if you are having traction issues. The tires only have so much traction, and any used for acceleration reduces that available for turning.

HPCC
09-21-08, 09:02 PM
...I deleted the sun roof.Me too :)
What are the easiest targets for further weight reduction (and before anyone else suggests it - I am on the CTS-V diet to drop 10 -20 :) )?ya know, I could stand to lose a few pounds myself :D
Lower mass and more importantly lower rotational inertia wheels.They're already forged with a lot of voided area, so we'd probably have to go magne$ium...
Carbon fiber drive shaft.Good one.
Titanium exhaust system.Mm-hmm
What else?It would be interestng to see the weight difference between the Michelin PS2 run-flats and your average ultra high-performance summer tires...

Ceramic brake rotors anyone? :eek:

CIWS
09-22-08, 07:34 AM
The main purpose for an AWD vehicle is in it's ability to keep traction, usually for weather related conditions. Although we like to look at the car in terms of performance, any added vehicle weight would be an acceptable fact in order to provide a most stable platform. Not to "get it off the line" quicker. The car is already going to get less than favorable gas mileage, so again in order to take the gain(s) from AWD, the mileage suffering a little more is just the way it would be.
As far as lowering the weight, that would be great. But to shave 3-500lbs off the car would cost several more thousand dollars and people are already crying and bitching about the projected cost of the car. Sounds like something the aftermarket could provide so the relatively few owners who want to spend on it can.

Jpjr
09-22-08, 10:02 AM
[QUOTE=CIWS;1639838]The car is already going to get less than favorable gas mileage, so again in order to take the gain(s) from AWD, the mileage suffering a little more is just the way it would be.
QUOTE]

You will probably see a hybrid V2 before an AWD V2 at this point.

CIWS
09-22-08, 10:06 AM
I want the electric version :D (EMF-V)

Jpjr
09-22-08, 12:39 PM
I want the electric version :D (EMF-V)

:) You could be on to something. They should stick a huge electric motor in the trunk and a large wind propeller. The traction would be pheonomenal!

HPCC
09-26-08, 12:19 AM
It would be interesting to see the weight difference between the Michelin PS2 run-flats and your average ultra high-performance summer tires...Mea culpa. Apparently the PS2's are not run-flats. Not sure where I picked that up, but I'm happy to report that I was wrong.

atdeneve
09-26-08, 12:07 PM
I've seen statements both citing the presence and the lack of run flats. Shrug. Wonder which it really is.

HiTechRV
09-27-08, 06:31 PM
Mm-hmmIt would be interestng to see the weight difference between the Michelin PS2 run-flats and your average ultra high-performance summer tires...


Many many pounds. Pick one up some time. They are 6x thicker in the sidewalls. But the new V fortunately went for all out performance and ditched the runcraps.

HPCC
09-27-08, 07:01 PM
Agreed; it would've been ironic to "engineer reduced mass" into the wheel only to ladle it back on more than necessary with the tire. With those mandatory big, bad brakes already adding to the unsprung weight, I'm glad to hear they're minimizing the other contributing factors as much as is practical.