: Information on P0741 & P1860. 1998+



AJxtcman
09-15-08, 05:41 PM
I have some information on P0741 I want to share.

Subject: Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On, Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0741, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Excessive Slip, Transaxle Chuggle, Slip/Surge (Inspect/Replace Internal Transaxle Components) #04-07-30-034 - (08/06/2004)


Models:
1998-2002 Cadillac Eldorado

1998-2004 Cadillac Seville

1999-2004 Cadillac DeVille

2000-2003 Oldsmobile Aurora

with 4T80-E Auto Transaxle (RPO MH1)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Condition
Some customer may comment on the SES light on and a chuggle or surge. Diagnostics may show excessive TCC slip speed and DTC P0741 will be current code stored.

Cause
Seal damage may allow the TCC apply fluid to leak into the channel plate, causing excessive TCC slippage under certain conditions, eventually causing no TCC apply.

TCC may have partial apply fluid pressure or no apply fluid pressure. If excessive slip speed is noted and condition/cause cannot be corrected by using DTC P0741 diagnostic chart, suspect worn seals from slippage of the drive sprocket bearing inner race on the drive sprocket.

Correction
DO THIS-----Repair the transaxle

DON'T DO THIS-----DO NOT replace the complete transaxle assembly


Follow the diagnostic and repair procedure below to repair this condition.

Remove the transaxle from the vehicle. Refer to the appropriate Service Information for transaxle removal procedure.
Remove the torque converter.
Install the transaxle to holding fixture. Refer to Holding Fixture Installation SI Document ID #513730.
Remove the transaxle side cover, upper valve body and case cover. Refer to the appropriate Unit Repair Information in SI.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/1.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/Picture003.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/Picture004.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/Picture006.jpg

Inspect the two case cover seals (34 and 35) for uneven wear patterns.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/3.jpg

Inspect the two case cover seals (34 and 35) for uneven wear patterns. The wear patterns will be evident by a uneven wear pattern of the inner diameter white seal surface as shown in the two above illustrations.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/2.jpg

Inspect the two case cover seals (34 and 35) for splits/tears and or flat spots.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/4.jpg

Inspect the support drive socket (400) for wear on the bearing race.
Inspect the case cover (33) for wear or damage due to the drive sprocket bearing spinning in the bore.

Important:

During the tear down inspection, pay particular attention to seals (34, 35, 409 and 412) for wear or damage.

Seals (34, 35, 409 and 412) are part of Gasket Kit, P/N 24221398, and do not need to be ordered separately.

Replace the Torque Converter when servicing a vehicle with this condition.
The Viscous Coupler has an extremely high failure rate when it is allowed to slip out of spec.

Flush the transaxle cooler with Transflow cooler flushing tool, J 45096. Refer to Service Bulletins:

Info - Automatic Transmission Oil Cooler Flush and Flow Test Essential Tool J 45096, TransFlow #02-07-30-052

Transmission Cooling System Service Tool J 45096 - Transflow Information #03-07-30-002.


Replace only the necessary internal transaxle components per the tear down inspection.
See the parts list below.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/5.jpg

My parts list

Item #----------Description-------------------------Part #
1--------Torque Converter Assembly----------------???????? 3 to choose from
30-------Side Cover To Case Cover Gasket----------8679392
33-------Transmission Case Cover------------------ 24229131
43-------Sprocket Support to Case Cover Gasket----24208779
44-------Case to Case Cover Gasket----------------24208778
228------Pump Body & Spacer Plate Gasket kit------ 24231071
336------TCC Pressure Solenoid-------------------- 24227792
400------Drive Sprocket Support--------------------8681071
412------O-Ring Seal-------------------------------8686052
---------ATF 10 Quarts

One of the two seals that fail
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/Picture001.jpg

This is what it should look like
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/Picture002.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/Picture007.jpg

This is the bad spots
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/Picture003.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/Picture004.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/Picture006.jpg

AJxtcman
09-15-08, 05:50 PM
DTC P1860
A P1860 is a electrical circuit failure!

The PCM run a resistance check on the circuit. The TCC solenoid spec is 10 to 15 ohm's. The PCM controls the Ground side of the circuit. When ignition voltage is applied to the power side of the solenoid the voltage flows through the solenoid and enters the PCM on the control side. The PCM looks at the voltage and compares it to the battery/ignition voltage to determine the resistance of the Solenoid.
If the resistance is high or the circuit is open the PCM won't see enough voltage and this trips the Flag/DTC

P1860 = bad Solenoid

AJxtcman
09-15-08, 06:08 PM
P0741 = Failed Turbine Shaft Seals

A Viscous Coupler (VC) is a sealed unit. A TCC vc has clutch plates and a Silicone fluid in it. When the plates start rotating at two different speeds, the shear effect of the tabs or perforations on the fluid will cause it to heat up and solidify (Silicone when heated will turn into a near solid; the viscosity of dilatant fluids rapidly increases with shear). The fluid in this state will essentially glue the plates together and transmit power from one set of plates to the other. This increases the pressure inside of the sealed drum. If the pressure increases to much it will crack the VC drum.

Now you have bad seals and a bad VC.
This is very common and that is the reason GM states that the Torque Converter must be replaced.

I have seen several tech try to short cut this and not replace the TC. I don't think this has ever worked more that 5 times that I have seen in the last 5 years. They always come back with in a month and the tech has to do it over again.

I will post some pictures of GM's VC used in the TC

AJxtcman
09-16-08, 09:47 AM
GENERAL DESCRIPTION

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/TC/1.jpg

As shown in figure 1, the 12.2 inch converter does not include a torque converter clutch. This type of converter is commonly referred to as an "open" converter. The 245 mm and 298 mm are sometimes referred to as a "closed" converter. The terms closed and open refers to the fluid flow through the converter with and without the use of a torque converter clutch (TCC).

Note: The torque converter operation in this book refers to the 245 mm and the 298 mm with the use of a TCC. However, the differences with the 12.2 inch (310 mm) "open" converter are pointed out as appropriate.

TORQUE CONVERTER ELEMENTS

The torque converter assembly serves three primary functions. First, the torque converter is a fluid coupling that smoothly transmits engine torque to the transmission gear-train. This fluid coupling also allows the vehicle to stop without stalling the engine. Secondly, it multiplies torque. from the engine to the transmission for additional vehicle performance. Finally, the torque converter assembly provides a mechanical (or direct drive) link from the engine to the transmission with the use of a torque converter clutch (TCC).

A 245 mm or 298 mm "closed" converter has four elements (Fig. 2). This design contains a converter pump assembly (driving member - I), a turbine assembly (driven or output member - F), a clutch pressure plate assembly (C) splined to the turbine to provide direct drive, and a stator assembly (reaction member - G). The converter cover (A) is welded to the pump to seal all four members in a fluid filled housing. The 12.2 inch (310 mm) "open" converter has three elements. This design contains a pump (I), turbine (F), and stator (G), but does not have a clutch pressure plate assembly.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/TC/2.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/TC/3.jpg

The converter cover (A) is bolted to the engine flex -plate which is bolted directly to the engine crankshaft. Therefore, the converter pump is mechanically connected to the engine and turns at engine speed whenever the engine is operating.

The converter pump (I) acts as a centrifugal pump, picking up fluid at its center and discharging this fluid at its rim between the blades (Fig. 3). It is the force of this fluid from the pump hitting the turbine blades that causes the turbine to rotate. When the engine is idling in gear, the converter pump is not spinning fast and the force of the fluid leaving the pump is not great enough to turn the turbine and move the vehicle. As engine speed increases, fluid force increases and more engine power is transmitted to the gear train. Turbine speed does not reach engine speed until the torque converter clutch (pressure plate) is applied. Thus, there is a small amount of slippage in this fluid coupling between the converter pump and turbine.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/TC/4.jpg

The pressure plate (C) is splined to the turbine hub. It applies against the converter cover to provide a mechanical (direct drive) coupling of the engine to the transmission. This mechanical coupling provides a more efficient transfer of engine torque to the drive wheels by eliminating the small amount of slippage that occurs in a fluid coupling. Thus, with the pressure plate (TCC) applied, the turbine assembly turns at engine speed and torque is no longer being multiplied.

To aid in torsional shock during converter clutch apply, a damper assembly (D) is used with the converter clutch pressure plate (C). The spring loaded damper assembly is splined to the converter turbine assembly (F). The converter clutch pressure plate is attached to the pivoting mechanism of the damper assembly. This pivoting action allows the pressure plate to rotate independent of the damper assembly, up to approximately 45 degrees. The rate of independent rotation is controlled by the pivoting mechanism acting on the spring in the damper assembly. The cushioning effect of the damper assembly springs aid in reducing converter clutch apply feel and irregular torque pulses from the engine or road.

The stator (G) is located between the converter pump and turbine and is mounted on a one way roller clutch. The purpose of the stator is to redirect the flow of fluid returning from the turbine to assist the engine in turning the converter pump. This redirection increases the force of the fluid driving the turbine and, as a result, multiplies torque from the engine (Fig. 4). If the fluid from the turbine was not redirected at low vehicle speeds it would impede the rotation of the converter pump.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/TC/5.jpg

At low vehicle speeds, when greater torque is needed, fluid from the turbine hits the front side of the stator blades (converter multiplying torque). Because the roller clutch holds the stator from moving in that direction, fluid is redirected from the turbine to assist the engine in turning the converter pump. Fluid from the converter pump then has more force to turn the turbine assembly and multiply engine torque.

As vehicle speed increases, centrifugal force changes the direction of fluid from the turbine. The direction of this fluid is such that it hits the back side of the stator blades (converter at coupling speed). This causes the roller clutch to overrun and allows the stator to rotate freely. Fluid is no longer redirected and engine torque is not being multiplied


TORQUE CONVERTER CLUTCH

As mentioned previously, the torque converter is not 100% efficient (up to a 10% loss) at coupling speed without the TCC applied.

The energy from the engine is wasted by the torque converter in the form of heat. This heat created by the slippage between the converter pump and turbine is the largest source of heat for transmission fluid. Thus, if this energy can be captured, we could increase the fuel economy of the vehicle and also reduce transmission fluid temperature. The torque converter clutch performs this task. The converter clutch functions similar to a standard transmission clutch by mechanically connecting the engine to the transmission. This makes the torque converter 100% efficient, thus increasing fuel economy and reducing transmission fluid temperature. The actual speed at which the TCC applies varies between vehicle applications.

There are three types of pressure plates in the present Hydra-matic converter assemblies. Two of these have spring type torsional dampening and the third has a viscous torsional dampening.

With the spring type damper, (Fig. 2), as the TCC applies, the springs in the damper assembly compress and allow the pressure plate to pivot. The pressure plate is allowed to pivot independently of the turbine to approximately 45 degrees. The spring cushioning effect aids in reducing the converter clutch apply feel.

A poppet style pressure plate is used with diesel engine applications (Fig. 5). With this type of pressure plate the

spring damper uses additional fluid control valves. These valves equalize fluid pressures on both sides of the pressure plate during TCC disengagement. This allows the pressure plate to release quicker and reduce torsional vibrations during deceleration on diesel applications.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/TC/6.jpg

VISCOUS CONVERTER CLUTCH

The third type of pressure plate is the viscous converter clutch (Fig. 6). The viscous clutch is only used on some HYDRA-MATIC 4T60 and 4T80 transaxles to provide a smoother apply feel. The viscous converter clutch performs the same functions as the conventional converter clutch explained earlier. The primary difference between the converter clutch and the viscous converter clutch is the method of dampening the apply feel. In the viscous clutch the spring damper is replaced by using viscous (thick) silicone fluid sealed between the body and cover of the clutch assembly. This fluid provides a smooth apply of the clutch assembly when it engages with the converter cover.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/TC/8.jpg

When the viscous clutch is applied (Fig. 7) the silicone fluid grips the intertwined ridges of the body and rotor of the viscous clutch. With the rotor splined to the turbine hub this forces the turbine to rotate at nearly the same speed as the converter cover. With this viscous apply there is still a minimal amount of slippage between the rotor and body.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/TC/7.jpg

blue_eldo
09-16-08, 01:24 PM
AJ,

Thanks for this most valuable information. I knew of the directive, but did not know the details.

A dealership has my transaxle out right now. I went to look at it yesterday and the O.D. of the drive sprocket is scored and the seals are wiped out. I was hoping to only replace the solonoid. It was in fact the soleniod was toasted to a crisp.

Logan noted in his posts that he in fact felt his solenoid fail and replaced it right away. The tech explained to me that the low control pressure from the leaking internal seals in effect lead to the solenoid failure due to the increased band width imposed on the solenoid. I drove mine about 1,500 mi in this condition.

It will be interesting to see if Logan's repair hangs in there for the long haul. I wish him Luck.

Remember "If you want to drive like a sport, you will pay like a sport"
Blue_Eldo

AJxtcman
09-16-08, 01:30 PM
Both types of Pressure Plate have the clutch lining attached to them.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/1.jpg
NOTE this picture is labeled wrong. It is not the cover.

AJxtcman
09-16-08, 01:38 PM
AJ,

Thanks for this most valuable information. I knew of the directive, but did not know the details.

A dealership has my transaxle out right now. I went to look at it yesterday and the O.D. of the drive sprocket is scored and the seals are wiped out. I was hoping to only replace the solenoid. It was in fact the solenoid was toasted to a crisp.

Logan noted in his posts that he in fact felt his solenoid fail and replaced it right away. The tech explained to me that the low control pressure from the leaking internal seals in effect lead to the solenoid failure due to the increased band width imposed on the solenoid. I drove mine about 1,500 mi in this condition.

It will be interesting to see if Logan's repair hangs in there for the long haul. I wish him Luck.

Remember "If you want to drive like a sport, you will pay like a sport"
Blue_Eldo


We see a lot of P0741 with a P1860 also.
Sometimes the P1860 has not set, but you touch the burnt solenoid and the end falls off of it.
When the solenoid is new it is grey. When they are burnt they are brown.
Now the reason they burn up. Hmmm. Two thoughts on that. First is the TCC Solenoid cause the P0741. The other is the PCM has to drive the TCC Solenoid harder to compensate for the bad seals. I say it is the second. The side cover may have been machined slightly off center and caused the seals to wear irregularly first.

AJxtcman
09-16-08, 01:51 PM
On a non VC TCC clutch you have a center section (Dampener Assembly) that is similar to one used on Manual Trans Clutch Disc. It uses Tortional Springs
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/2.jpg

On a VC the center section is a sealed unit/drum that allows for a softer engagement and a large/gross amount of slippage under load. The more it slips the hotter the Viscous fluid gets and this causes it to lock up. It also can cause so much pressure in the VC sealed unit it cracks.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/3.jpg

GM stopped using the VC in 4T80E in 2005

badtothebone
12-15-08, 02:04 AM
I had my 97 Eldorado done by Tranny shop reffered them to GM's Reccomendations. Replaced the Input solenoid, Tc solenoid, TC, the O ring on the gasket on the rear input shaft caused the leak. It seems you just have drop the tranny and look at it. Done for $1698. 931. was for labor. Bad batteris play havoc with these trannys, and Alternators. I also had replace the alternator, because previous ower put in incorrect battery size to small. The battery was also at 50% capacity these trannys are electronic, they need the correct power. I notice immediate improvement, by changing battery, in stering, and driveability of the car. See full post under tc po741

AJxtcman
04-04-09, 08:12 PM
I am very busy with everything especially the house right now, but I have been thinking about a new tune.
I would shut off the TCC, P0741 DTC and set up a Lean Cruise patch that I have to get better fuel mileage. I would have to be very careful not to go too lean because it would take out the Cat. The Lean Cruise patch was running about 16 to 1 afr and we had NO misfires.

Just a thought. :suspect:
$500 is cheaper than a P0741 repair

Submariner409
04-04-09, 09:18 PM
.....................BUT, with a TCC disable and running high RPM in 3 at highway speeds, on a lean tune, what would prevent burning plugs and exhaust valves ????

AJxtcman
04-04-09, 10:19 PM
.....................BUT, with a TCC disable and running high RPM in 3 at highway speeds, on a lean tune, what would prevent burning plugs and exhaust valves ????

A "Lean Cruise Patch" for the application was designed by GM :shhh:
I have several OEM lean Cruise Calibrations for Northstar's

Holden's run them.

http://www.monodax.com/forums/tunercat-jet-obdii-hardware-software/394-possible-lean-cruise-support.html

http://www.monodax.com/forums/tunercat-jet-obdii-hardware-software/1496-lean-cruise.html


A feature of GM's PCM from the factory is called Lean Cruise. It is turned off by default because it is illegal to use due to emissions ...




EFILive has a lot of info on it.

Submariner409
04-04-09, 10:25 PM
:hmm: Yeah, but these guys are talking about different engines in different platforms with different transmissions, so how do you adapt the "lean cruise" patch to a 2000 - 2004 N*/4T80E FWD package ???

AJxtcman
04-05-09, 08:39 AM
:hmm: Yeah, but these guys are talking about different engines in different platforms with different transmissions, so how do you adapt the "lean cruise" patch to a 2000 - 2004 N*/4T80E FWD package ???

GM designed it, I found a copy of one of them years ago.

Driving 65 mph in a 55 mph is illegal and partially for the same reason (Emissions). I am sure you remember those add campaigns telling every one to slow down? You would get X amount of better fuel economy and reduce the emissions out put if you slow down.

KHE
08-16-10, 03:13 PM
Where in the transmission are the seals in the pictures located? Are they integral to the torque converter or are they near the turbine shaft or are they on the drive sprocket hub?

I have a '97 STS that the torque converter won't lock up and is this information applicable to that model as well? The title says 1998+

AJxtcman
08-25-10, 09:11 PM
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/LargeTurbineShafteseal.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/MissingSeal.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Trans%20Parts/P0471/Case3.jpg

AJxtcman
02-09-11, 12:58 PM
DTC P1860
A P1860 is a electrical circuit failure!

The PCM run a resistance check on the circuit. The TCC solenoid spec is 10 to 15 ohm's. The PCM controls the Ground side of the circuit. When ignition voltage is applied to the power side of the solenoid the voltage flows through the solenoid and enters the PCM on the control side. The PCM looks at the voltage and compares it to the battery/ignition voltage to determine the resistance of the Solenoid.
If the resistance is high or the circuit is open the PCM won't see enough voltage and this trips the Flag/DTC

P1860 = bad Solenoid

Does everone understand that P1860 = bad Solenoid

taylorrmj
04-13-11, 10:00 PM
One question where is the TCC Solinoid located in the trani i have the P0741 and is it hard to replace it and to replace the seals or torque converter. Thanks

Ranger
04-13-11, 10:40 PM
The solenoid is in the side cover. You need to drop or at least lower the cradle to get to it. Seals and TC will definitely require a drivetrain drop.

akfreak
04-26-11, 03:56 AM
A message to AJxtcman

Hello, I read your post on the P0741, My Car has been to the dealer here in Las Vegas, and they want to replace the whole transmission, and TC. I told them About the info I read here and about the TCC issues from the codes I have.

My car is never driven it has 43k miles. It is mint, here is what happens when I drive. the car starts and runs perfectlym then when the car is up to full operating temp, the car seems to go into 3rd gear. When I try to take off the car lugs the motor like I am in 3rd gear or somthing. I take it home let it cool off (5 or 6 hours) and The car drives perfect until it warms up again.

I am screwed, I have been paying $400 every month (still 2 years left in my loan, bought it used with 21K) and I cant even pass smog so I cant drive it. The dealer wants $4k+ Amaco Transmission wants $1k to look at it. Other places want about the same. So I have decided to do it myself.

What book or books do I need to buy that will show me how to droop the drive train and yank the tranny out. I plan to first drop the cradle and inspect the TCC but also plan the worst case to replace the trans and TC myself. I have lots of tool, I have built Harleys and airplane motors for many years so I am not a totally clueless idiot that cant turn a wrench. I am just screwed here in Vegas where I have Zero Friends and people are thieves.

Is there any place you recommended to buy parts, books and tools I will need. I will be doing this in my drive way and work on it until it is fixed. I plan to keep and pay off this car, it drives so nice and looks beautiful A loaded DHS, My dream car, I saved, put 6k down paid for 3 + years I want to make my baby drive again. Will you please help me. I can take videos of what I am doing and show them to you so you can see exactly what may or may not be wrong.

I read all of the info. I can see a bad seal as described in the post. I saw you parts list. I have never worked on a transaxle car before, I dont know where to start but I soon will. I have to assume I will have to pull a front wheel, and remove the rotor and possible loosen front suspension to move it out of the way, or does the transmission/transaxle drop out of the botton of the car. I dont plan on pulling the motor.

I know I am a complete stranger, I am hoping you can find it in your heart to help me thru this BS and get my baby back on the road. My wife is freaking out and I dont know what to do. It's been 6-7 months and I cant pass smog so it is parked. I dont have $4,500 I am a regular guy with a wife and 2 kids trying to make ends meet. I feel horrible that I bought that car now, knowing that the money and time I am spending to fix it, is taking money away from my family. I have thought about just giving it back to the dealer, trading it in, ect.. All of the ideas further compound the situation, because I loose even more money in the long run.

I put 6k down, 3 years at $465 and walk away for $4k I cant see this as a good plan. Sorry for the lengthy PM. I really appreciate your time. You guys (cadi techs) dont have some sort of good guy network that you can find an honest tech in Vegas do ya, LOL. I know a Ford dealer tec guy that works at home doing side work. I cant a find A GM tech much less a tranny guy, seems techs are all qualified to do tranny work. The mere mention of trans work to a tech brings about head shaking and to service writers they get a sparkle in their eyes, knowing they are going to make some $$$$.

Last thing I promise, the Service MGR at Henderson NV Cadillac (Findley cadi) told me it is impossible to get 2003 parts. A new GM trans for my car is discontinued and not available, they use some sort of Rebuilt transmissions by a company specially remaned for GM.

My cell is 816-XXX-XXXX (cant PM so I hid my number) Sprint My name is Tom I am on PST time zone. If you ever come to vegas let me know I can hook you up with a room at Bellagio where I work and some buffets and a show or two like the show called "O"

Pm me if you think you want to help me. Thanks

Ranger
04-26-11, 10:51 AM
You want A FSM by Helm Inc. Nothing else. Ebay is your friend. It took me over a year to get mine, but perhaps they are more available now. You can always get a new one at http://www.helminc.com. They are worth their weight in gold.

Have you read up on P0741? That code does not affect the car the way you describe. You should not even notice it except for the SES light. Have you pulled the DTC's yourself?

akfreak
04-27-11, 02:25 AM
Here are the PCM codes
p0174, p0340,p0741

miwise
05-06-11, 12:25 AM
So. If I have the transmission out it would be recommended to perform this fix? Is this an update to prevent further failures?

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX™ 4G on AT&T

00 Deville
05-06-11, 09:30 AM
So. If I have the transmission out it would be recommended to perform this fix? Is this an update to prevent further failures?

Have you had ever any transmission related codes?

Why is your transmission out?

miwise
05-08-11, 05:50 PM
Because im swapping the complete powertrain soon. Bought low milage engine and tranny for car. Want to perform any preventative maintenance necessary while I have it out. Thinking about having engine studded by a professional as well. I want the car to run and drive perfect when done

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX™ 4G on AT&T

miwise
05-08-11, 05:51 PM
Never any transmission codes from donor car.

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX™ 4G on AT&T

00 Deville
05-08-11, 06:52 PM
Never any transmission codes from donor car.

That's a good sign... I would still consider putting a TCC solenoid in it while the powertrain is out. I don't think I would mess with the torque converter and seals if it's never thrown a P741.

miwise
05-08-11, 07:19 PM
Cool. I think ill try that. Im wondering if there's a kit I can buy with upgraded parts.

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX™ 4G on AT&T

Submariner409
05-09-11, 10:13 AM
Talk to Chris up in Rippy Parts. GM has an upgraded shift solenoid kit - both shift solenoids and a bracket - maybe they have the TCC later unit.

Sent from my ancient Toshiba M35X using Hunt&Peck Mk3Mod2.

miwise
05-09-11, 09:06 PM
Haha. Love ur signature sub! Thanks!!

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX™ 4G on AT&T

Submariner409
05-10-11, 06:47 PM
:sneaky: Gotta keep 'em guessing.................

Sent from my ancient Toshiba M35X using Hunt&Peck Mk3Mod2

miwise
05-10-11, 08:21 PM
Lol. Mine is part of the app im using. Tap a talk. Love it!

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX™ 4G on AT&T

RippyPartsDept
05-10-11, 09:11 PM
i've turned that sig off when i'm using tapatalk ....

as for the solenoid updates:
the only bracket update that i know of is for the early 90's and is for the shift solenoids
as of 1996 (def by 1997) the update was being used at the factory

i don't think that there's a similar update for the TCC solenoid

miwise
05-10-11, 11:24 PM
That sounds good. Ill let it be then. Why do people have these issues then? What causes the failure?

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fishingguy
09-12-11, 06:54 PM
I also have that problem with my 1998 olds aurora I was going to try the replacement of the solenoid valve first then do what this site said to do. Hey KHE the seals are under the transmission case cover (33), taking that cover off opens a big can of worms. I dont want to question your knowledge KHE but I work on nuclear subs and I still am debating weather to dig into the side of the transmission.

Submariner409
09-13-11, 09:53 AM
I work on nuclear subs

The 4T80E transmission is not that complicated - it's merely impossible to get far into while still in the car, and removal is no picnic. The solenoid can be replaced with the transmission in the car, but the job is sort of like remote control surgery.

(Diesel boats, fast attacks, COB on two SSBN's. QMCM(SS)(DV))

bigtone
09-13-11, 05:29 PM
You got that right. I just did the solenoid replacement with the powertrain in the car. But, in all honestly, most of the job was removing everything else in the way. The motor mount bracket was a real b*tch. After the side cover was opened, it took about an hour to r/r the solenoid and clip. I used a mirror and some aluminum welding wire. I slid the wire thru the rounded end of the clip and bent it over to avoid dropping it, and used my forefinger and thumb to remove the clip. The solenoid was easy, slip the old one out, wet the o rings with some new trans fluid on the new solenoid and slide it in. I fabricated a holder for the clip to align it with the slot, and pushed it in. But it took a few tries.Lucky me, I have another one to do on my son's Deville yet.

former STS2(SS)

Submariner409
09-13-11, 11:38 PM
Ping jockey..............Forward puke - finest kind............Had you figured for a nuke ET. Sorry. At least you're good at working on incredibly tiny servos with broken belts in impossibly cramped spaces with improper tools. Sort of like the FT's working on the Torpedo Fire Control console..................

"Sonar, Conn. We're preparing to hover................"

Good job. Someone else did roughly the same fix about 5 months ago........... it's in here somewhere.................

bigtone
09-14-11, 08:02 PM
Where I work we call people Navy Nuke ET as an insult. I thought 'ping jockey' was reserved for the surface guys. Usually we got called 'sonar girls'.......

mtflight
12-12-11, 01:03 PM
Here's a TCC failure, with catastrophic consequences to the transaxle:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/246945-4t80e-viscous-torque-converter-internals-clutch.html

maeng9981
12-12-11, 05:48 PM
Here's a TCC failure, with catastrophic consequences to the transaxle:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/246945-4t80e-viscous-torque-converter-internals-clutch.html

Note that not all P0741 failures will lead to a catastrophic transmission failure. If you are having other transmission mechanical issues besides P0741, or if you are having a whining noise of some sort, my thread is worthy to look at.

Also if you are having P0741 + P1860 then it's a broken TCC PWM solenoid, not TCC itself.

Ouly6094
06-02-14, 10:52 AM
This message is for AJxtcman http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/member.php?u=53848.
I have tried for a week now to source out a shift kit for my 2003 Deville and have had no luck. Seems as though all the upgraded kits for the 4T80E only range from 1993-1999. Noticed you have kits available and wondered if it would be possible to order one.
You can PM me @ coryoulton@hotmail.com
Thanks

Submariner409
06-02-14, 11:12 AM
The last time AJ even logged in was last March. He is essentially out of the Northstar/4T80E business. If your Deville is a base model with the 3.11 final drive a shift point modification kit will do exactly nothing for you, and the car is speed limited to 112 mph.

This thread has been dormant for 3.5 years and has nothing to do with shift kits.

Do you really want to post your e-mail in a public open worldwide website ?