: STS? or something else?



kokomo61
09-06-08, 07:11 PM
I've driven the CTS and STS at the GM AutoShow in Motion, and have always had a soft spot for Cadillac (I grew up in Kokomo, IN, and many relatives have worked for GM). I currently drive a Grand Prix, but as I've gotten older, I've watched the average age of the GP boards drop to roughly 19 or so....and have probably outgrown the car.

I can buy any car I want, but I'm having trouble making up my mind. Here's my (current) though process.

1) Nissan Maxima - kind of a 'grown up' version of the car I'm driving now. Still front drive, but updated styling without the downmarket stigma of the GP.

2) Pontiac G8 - RWD, performance oriented, interesting exterior/interior, but I have no need to advertise my horsepower on my sleeve. (I'm 47, for cripe's sake). I like performance, but I don't need to race anyone.

3) Hyundai Genesis - RWD, good HP, nice features, priced aggressively for what it is, and Hyundai quality has been impressive...

4) CTS - probably too small. My son is 13, and already 5'8". I need at least as much back seat room as my GP, and likely more.

5) STS - Love the looks, performance, etc.....but hate the up front depreciation. Concerned about the reliability.....

I think the best option would be to find a 2007-08 STS - that would be priced right, fun to drive, have the luxury/room/performance I'm looking for.....how's the reliability compared to the other options?

c5 rv
09-06-08, 08:41 PM
08 STS has a number of improvements over 07. Get a CPO PEP car. If you want FWD, take a look at a CPO DTS performance. Take advantage of the depreciation and get a CPO car for 50% of MSRP and a long warranty.

kokomo61
09-06-08, 08:49 PM
From what I've seen, the '08 doesn't cost much more than the '07's I've seen for sale....it's really that first year depreciation hit. Anyone care to comment on the reliability concerns? Am I listening to too much Consumer Reports anti-GM bias?

c5 rv
09-06-08, 09:29 PM
Consumer Reports rates the 08 STS as recommended. It's best to assume that there will be some problems (as one should with any car), so the CPO warranty is a good feature. If the power window goes out at 95K miles, drop it off at the dealer and get a loaner.

C&C
09-07-08, 06:04 AM
If you want to remain in the GM family, but are not quite sure of making the move all the way to Cadillac, there is always the Buick Lucerne that can get you back to the more mature owner (and their quality is top notch as well).

kokomo61
09-07-08, 08:08 AM
I've driven the Buick Lucerne, and it's just like the DTS inside...but I also noticed that it was the same as the Impala. I thought that GM wasn't doing as much badge engineering these days. Also, the Buick might be a bit too 'mature' for me. (I'm only 47), despite what Tiger Woods might say.

I'm seeing '08 STS's with V8 and Nav (and the related packages) for as low as 30-33K on Autotrader with less than 10K miles, and that's before any negotiation. The V6's run a little bit less. Granted, you've got to do CarFax and lemon law checks, but with that many out there, I may be able to negotiate better than that locally. With that, should I even be thinking about those other cars? (the Maxima, Genesis or G8). The STS seems to have the performance/handling and luxury combo that I'm looking for....

c5 rv
09-07-08, 09:03 AM
Ask your Cadillac dealer's service department to run a warranty repair and recall check on the VIN of any car you are considering.

Northern SRX
09-07-08, 09:04 AM
I personally think that all your choices are good vehicles and can serve you well. You have to decide which of these best meets your own needs for utility, performance, image, and serviceability.

I like the G8 but it's very different car from an STS - the latter being more stealthy, particularly in V8 trim. If you want "look at me" with your speed, go with the G8.

The Maxima, OTOH, is nicely refined vehicle - but it's FWD and based on the Altima platform. In the end, it's a nice car and Nissan has probably done as much as it could with this platform but it's origins are pretty ordinary. Again, no knock against the Maxima - it's fine for what it is but it's more a competitor of the Acura TL than the other cars you list. If you want to read an interesting comparo between the Maxima and the G8, read this article (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0808_nissan_maxima_vs_pontiac_g8/index.html) - it describes the comparison quite well, methinks.

I really like the CTS but I am not crazy about its caboose from some angles but that is very, very subjective. Still, it's interior is one of the best out there today and it's very, very tempting in DI trim.

I also like the Genesis but I don't think Hyundai is yet top-of-mind for people buying near-luxury cars. That doesn't take away from the car, though and puts me in mind of my '92 Mazda 929 - dealerships were almost giving them away new and, although that car served me quite well for years, I got nailed at resale because of the car's invisibility in the market. One knock I would level against the Genesis, though, is that it's styling copycats its "image competition" too much - I typically have a hard time buying a cheap version of something that is trying too hard to look like its pricier competitors. Hyundai would have been better off, IMHO, going for a more unique look.

I do like the STS - a lot. I am not an STS owner (our garage has an '04 SRX and an '00 Bonneville) but am planning to pick up an '08 V6 STS4 within the next 6 months (in addition, we are looking to replace the '04 SRX with an '08 SRX in the next couple of months.

I also prefer the '08 STS to the '07 but I would be quite happy having and '07 in my driveway.

Good luck with your choice!

kokomo61
09-07-08, 09:10 AM
Ask your Cadillac dealer's service department to run a warranty repair and recall check on the VIN of any car you are considering.

Good idea - can I get that through CarFax? I'd like to retain as much negotiating power as possible, and having that info independently could help....

MARKVIII
09-07-08, 10:15 AM
My local newspaper today has an ad from one of the larger cadillac dealers in my area for ALL '08 STS IN STOCK UP TO $11,400 OFF STICKER. What do u think that does to resale value??
That's roughly 18-20 percent off sticker.

kokomo61
09-07-08, 10:27 AM
My local newspaper today has an ad from one of the larger cadillac dealers in my area for ALL '08 STS IN STOCK UP TO $11,400 OFF STICKER. What do u think that does to resale value??
That's roughly 18-20 percent off sticker.

It definitely takes it down a notch....that's why the '08 used ones may be even a better bargain. If they're listing 'up to 11,400' off of sticker, that's probably for a fully loaded V8 with Nav and AWD. Drive it off the lot, and a used one with 8-10K miles is between 30 and 34K. After that first initial hit, the remaining years depreciation is a bit more tolerable.

Cars are an expense, not an investment, so I'm looking for a luxury/sporty car without as much of an up front hit.....

c5 rv
09-07-08, 11:38 AM
Good idea - can I get that through CarFax? I'd like to retain as much negotiating power as possible, and having that info independently could help....

I don't think carfax has the same level of detail. I believe your dealer has two levels of service information:

- GM's warranty claim system provides information on the vehicle regardless of what GM dealer did the work. However, if it took a number of service visits to resolve a problem, that often isn't reflected in the GM system. One dealer told me that warranty repairs are marked as resolved on the first visit because GM won't reimburse them for multiple visits.

- The dealer's internal service records should list all service visits the car had at that particular dealer. This is useful for a local car that was serviced at that dealership.

Caroutisine
09-07-08, 04:08 PM
There is nothing like a new car. And despite the depreaciation hit, it really only matters if you don't plan on keeping it for too long. In this case, perhaps a lease would be better. It took me nearly 3 years to get to the point that my STS is worth about what I owe on it. But that's ok, it's the price you pay for purchasing almost any car new. As far as reliability, my STS has been good, just 2 battery replacements under warranty.

pjbizjak
09-07-08, 08:05 PM
STS v8* w/1sg pkg, you probably can find one with low miles for around 33000+ certified. The way to go!

kokomo61
09-07-08, 09:18 PM
There is nothing like a new car. And despite the depreaciation hit, it really only matters if you don't plan on keeping it for too long. In this case, perhaps a lease would be better. It took me nearly 3 years to get to the point that my STS is worth about what I owe on it. But that's ok, it's the price you pay for purchasing almost any car new. As far as reliability, my STS has been good, just 2 battery replacements under warranty.

You're right, there's nothing like a new car - but I don't know if I want to pay 12 to 20 K extra for the privilege, when I can find one with 7-8K miles for 30-34K. I tend to keep my cars for a while (my current one will turn 7 at the end of this month). I plan to detail it out, sell it myself, and then buy my replacement car. Even with the model year clearances going on, if I can find a CPO (or at least a low mileage privately owned) STS for the right price, that may be the way to go.

BEVA53
09-09-08, 10:08 PM
I bought a 2005 STS with the Northstar and almost every option available with 24000 miles on it. It is a certified car and is warrantied to 100,000 miles or Jan 2011. I now have 34k trouble free miles on it. The car had a sticker of $59,970 and I bought it for $22,700. I simply love the car and with the savings I bought a 1996 Cobra convertible. I now have the best of both worlds. Buy used and certified, save a bunch of money and drive with the peace of mind that certification gives you. My son also had the same problem with head room in the back of the CTS that we test drove. He doesn't have that problem in the STS. The problem that he does has, is he always wants to be in the drivers seat now, he loves the car as well.

ryannel2003
09-09-08, 10:17 PM
Here's the deal with the STS's: my boss is buying them left and right from auctions for about $30k. These are V8 Northstar's, Nav systems, sunroofs, almost every option. Stickered for $57k brand new. He's driving a silver '08 right now and the car is really great. We've sold quite a few in the last 3 months. As a matter of fact, we haven't had a new STS in since last year. Why the point? The value drops so much in 1 year it's really insane. The Seville before it was the same way; so I recommend the car wholeheartedly. Best value on the market right now.

kokomo61
09-10-08, 08:44 AM
Here's the deal with the STS's: my boss is buying them left and right from auctions for about $30k. These are V8 Northstar's, Nav systems, sunroofs, almost every option. Stickered for $57k brand new. He's driving a silver '08 right now and the car is really great. We've sold quite a few in the last 3 months. As a matter of fact, we haven't had a new STS in since last year. Why the point? The value drops so much in 1 year it's really insane. The Seville before it was the same way; so I recommend the car wholeheartedly. Best value on the market right now.

I'm seeing a lot of 1SE's out there for 30-34K, and some a little higher. My ideal find would be a Certified 1SE with <10K miles for 30-32K (in the right color, of course). A local dealer has one, but it's listed for 37 or so. Where should I be targeting an offer price?