: 3000 Status on our first two CTS-Vs



Cadillac Tony
09-05-08, 11:29 AM
Order status 3000 = Accepted by production control. This means that CTS-V orders are moving beyond the Dealers' computers and into the hands of the factory.

Just an update for those who have ordered. :)

bsteven43
09-05-08, 11:38 AM
Pricing?

Cadillac Tony
09-05-08, 11:43 AM
Yes, it will have a price. :lol:

(Sorry- still no word)

urbanski
09-05-08, 01:03 PM
:woot:

CIWS
09-05-08, 01:29 PM
I Order you to give me a new 09V :p


(How's that for an order?)

RightTurn
09-05-08, 01:33 PM
You're more likely to get a side of fries, Maffew.

CIWS
09-05-08, 01:35 PM
You're more likely to get a side of fries, Maffew.

Fine with me, but I can't eat them for a few hours still. :D

chris1268
09-05-08, 02:44 PM
Order status 3000 = Accepted by production control. This means that CTS-V orders are moving beyond the Dealers' computers and into the hands of the factory.

Just an update for those who have ordered. :)

Thanks for the update Tony

Silverspeed
09-05-08, 03:57 PM
Does anyone else find it odd that the orders have moved to 3000 status and there is still no pricing? I really wanted one of these cars but GM is almost trying to get me not to buy one. RELEASE THE F*CKING PRICING ALREADY. Damn.

urbanski
09-05-08, 04:07 PM
Fine with me, but I can't eat them for a few hours still. :D

catabolism sucks

Jpjr
09-05-08, 04:36 PM
Does anyone else find it odd that the orders have moved to 3000 status and there is still no pricing? I really wanted one of these cars but GM is almost trying to get me not to buy one. RELEASE THE F!ING PRICING ALREADY. Damn.

I have a feeling that the launch is being delayed due to the glut of intentory they are trying to clear out first for dealers. By extending employee pricing to most 2009 models, it is clear that they are more focused on selling cars right now than rushing the V2 to market.

They may also be waiting for the next round of rags since the V2 is right on top of the ZR1, which got all the publicity this month.

Dualcams34
09-06-08, 09:06 PM
Just a word from the inside, there is no need to rush into building these cars. Keep in mind the engines are hand built, supplies of some of the parts are limited build and at this time the assembly plant is going through some changes. I believe that GM is doing to right things for the customers that will be buying these cars. Keep in mind our plant does not build cars at 15 jobs per hour like the vet plant. So please understand that building this car is very complex, it is not your everyday CTS.

HiTechRV
09-06-08, 09:29 PM
What kind of changes at LGR?

Nutz
09-06-08, 10:35 PM
My $.02

I'm absolutely impressed with the progress. Just look at the Camaro, that thing is practically a has-been:jerkit:.

Nice work though on the V GM, take your time and work out the bugs while the media thrashes the pilots.:thumbsup:

Sorry guys (waiting for one).:hide:

Oh.. and I'm also glad there's no hole in the hood to see the plastic engine cover...:duck:

No pricing on Camaro either. Maybe they're waiting to see if a Sarah Palin scandal happens and tanks the whole election and economy:suspect::cynic::alchi:... I don't know.:stirpot:

v84life
09-06-08, 11:05 PM
Don't forget taking away leasing... This is a buyers car for better or worse. Times are uh changing.....

noelvm
09-07-08, 12:07 AM
why would you lease it. With new CAFE requirements this is the last high horsepower car that will be made. The next one will probably have a four cylinder engine, so if you like horsepower you'd better plan on keeping it for awhile.
noelvm

Jpjr
09-07-08, 12:55 AM
why would you lease it. With new CAFE requirements this is the last high horsepower car that will be made. The next one will probably have a four cylinder engine, so if you like horsepower you'd better plan on keeping it for awhile.
noelvm

umm... how about because you have the option to buy in that case?:duck:

HiTechRV
09-07-08, 09:30 AM
All depends what you want.

Hopefully the 2.0l turbo does go into the Camaro and other performance models - there are GM build books out there to take that engine to *1450* HP now. That's a great engine and I'd be happy to have it in any car.

Looks like the plans to put the LSA/LS9 in the Camaro for a 600 HP fire breather have been scrubbed.

vperl
09-07-08, 07:28 PM
Tony?Why Oh why? no pricing.. How can anyone ordewr without knowing all the options colors interior and the rest?

What is GM waiting for?
Well, I guess i am going to make a decision real soon as to my next move, I will wait till everyone else has one, then get a used one after gas goes to 5 bucks or 6
If that is OK, I have this property I'd like to introduce you too.

Cadillac Tony
09-07-08, 07:41 PM
I've posted the colors and option here no fewer than ten times. Since you're new, here you are:

OFFICIAL SPECS, DIMENSIONS AND CAPACITIES

Check out Reed's excellent site at http://www.cadillacfaq.com/gi/09v.html, and drop him a donation while you're there to keep this invaluable resource up and running.

2009 CTS-V COLOR CHOICES

Exterior

-(17U) Radiant Silver
-(30U) Thunder Gray Chromaflair*
-(41U) Black Raven
-(58U) Black Ice* (not available at SOP)
-(89U) Crystal Red Tintcoat*
-(96U) Blue Diamond TriCoat*
-(98U) White Diamond TriCoat*

*Denotes an additional charge

Interior

-(195) Ebony with Ebony Accents (dash pad, upper door panels)
-(845) Light Titanium with Ebony Accents
-(315) Ebony/Light Cashmere Two Tone (Ebony seat edges with Cashmere inserts- Not available when equipped with Optional Recaro seats)

2009 CTS-V Packages and options (Prices TBA)

-(UAV): Audio system with Navigation
-(W2E): Recaro Heated/Ventilated Performance Seats
-(C3U): Ultraview Power Sunroof
-(P80): 19x9" front, 19x9.5" rear Polished Aluminum Wheels
-(K05): Engine Block Heater
-(MX0): Six Speed Automatic Transmission

-(RJE): CTS-V Performance Collection. Includes-(UAV): Audio system with Navigation-(W2E): Recaro Heated/Ventilated Performance Seats-(P80): 19x9" front, 19x9.5" rear Polished Aluminum Wheels-(N45) Sueded Steering Wheel and (KAE) Sueded Shift Knob. (N45) and (KAE) only available in this collection.


Production is scheduled to begin in October, with cars arriving in Dealers Q4 2008 (November at the earliest).

terminal Velocity
09-07-08, 09:51 PM
why would you lease it. With new CAFE requirements this is the last high horsepower car that will be made. The next one will probably have a four cylinder engine, so if you like horsepower you'd better plan on keeping it for awhile.
noelvmThat's either sarcastic or very uninformed...

vperl
09-07-08, 10:41 PM
Any Idea when GM will STOP :lildevil:production of the 2009 model year of the CTS-V ?
:hide: or not I have a reason for asking.

EricVonHa
09-07-08, 11:10 PM
No pricing from GM yet ?

Have you taken a tour of any dealer lots within this past week ? There are literally 10's of thousands of TONS of trucks and SUV's that are just taking up space.

The latest "GM Employee" pricing yielded over $10k of MARKDOWN on the windshields of these higher-end trucks.

Been to a Vette dealer? Even the new Z06's are hugely marked down and have discounts clearly listed. 2 years ago, you couldn't touch one at below MSRP (and a bunch of suckers paid more than MSRP!)

These cars and trucks are not being moved. They are sitting for an extended period of time.

The General knows this and my opinion is that they will hold off on V-pricing for as long as they can. The car will be *probably be listed with an over-agressive pie in the sky MSRP. Why do I say ? Look at the ridiculous premium that the new ZR-1 Vette brings over the Z06. 30-40% ?

Sooner or later they all sell... so, the "specialty" vehicles will always be over-priced, right?

How will the Unions respond to Osama Obama or McLame ? We're about to find out... I wouldn't be surprised if the nod goes to Obama that the car will have another few percentage points added on just to cover the ridiculous planned tax increases.

V-Love
09-08-08, 03:06 AM
Fine with me, but I can't eat them for a few hours still. :D
You can order them today but can't eat them till November and you'll get the price when you come to pick them up.

Jpjr
09-08-08, 05:59 AM
No pricing from GM yet ?

Have you taken a tour of any dealer lots within this past week ? There are literally 10's of thousands of TONS of trucks and SUV's that are just taking up space.

The latest "GM Employee" pricing yielded over $10k of MARKDOWN on the windshields of these higher-end trucks.

Been to a Vette dealer? Even the new Z06's are hugely marked down and have discounts clearly listed. 2 years ago, you couldn't touch one at below MSRP (and a bunch of suckers paid more than MSRP!)

These cars and trucks are not being moved. They are sitting for an extended period of time.

The General knows this and my opinion is that they will hold off on V-pricing for as long as they can. The car will be *probably be listed with an over-agressive pie in the sky MSRP. Why do I say ? Look at the ridiculous premium that the new ZR-1 Vette brings over the Z06. 30-40% ?

Sooner or later they all sell... so, the "specialty" vehicles will always be over-priced, right?

How will the Unions respond to Osama Obama or McLame ? We're about to find out... I wouldn't be surprised if the nod goes to Obama that the car will have another few percentage points added on just to cover the ridiculous planned tax increases.


Don't you mean McSame? Just what the doctor ordered for the Big 3 lol.

GM has been inflating MSRP on high end vehicles, I'm hoping this changes for the sake of sales. The STS-V and XLR-V are simply not worth sticker relative to their competition. The base CTS has been priced just right, hoping they do the same with the V2... anywhere close to doubling the price of the car ($35k to $70k) for a performance package is not pricing the car right. Many consider pricing relative to class, but I would argue that most people looking at a V2 are American car buyers that will settle on a base CTS or SRT8 rather than an M5, E63, etc. I just don't see GM taking *significant* share from the German competition until the overall brand perception changes, but happy to be proven wrong.

vperl
09-08-08, 06:47 AM
GM, like other companies, even those that are NOT going broke need customers. If or when they try to .. much like what happened to the GT-R a great MSRP, but the dealers screwed everyone and the GT-R all of a sudden was sell for 20-30 Thousand over MSRP. Then this week Nissan announces a price hike .. geee, all they need to do is get a few grand from the dealers......they ripped everyone.... Does GM want to sel all they can make and get the ball rolling ? The price will in fact etermine if they sell 8 thousand or 50 thousand units, also the more units out in view make people want to buy..... Knowing that they can actually buy one... not just read about them in a magazine :tisk::(

CIWS
09-08-08, 07:25 AM
GM.... snip

The 09 CTS-V isn't like a ZR1 where there's only approx 1500 units being built per year or the GT-R that's a controlled import just being introduced. Yes it will be of a "limted" production, but something around 7K units per year which is about double the production rates of the 04-07 CTS-Vs and those aren't too hard to get a hold of. We'll see the car show up for (my guess all along) 65-70K. Some dealerships may tack on a premium for some of their first cars, but many won't. They will sell them for MSRP and there's even a Dealership/Salesman here, Cadillac Tony, who was offering it for a little less. Certainly by summertime they will have become available enough that anything over MSRP would be just silly. Plus the Coupe should be starting production then as well.

Cadillac Tony
09-08-08, 10:25 AM
The base CTS has been priced just right, hoping they do the same with the V2... anywhere close to doubling the price of the car ($35k to $70k) for a performance package is not pricing the car right.


Your logic is a little flawed here. While the CTS has a Base price of $35,000, that's a stripped car with a manual passenger seat and "pleather" interior. No one buying a car of this caliber would accept that, so they don't offer a "stripped" CTS-V.

A more accurate comparison would be a $50,000 loaded CTS, at which point a $10-15k bump for the V's powertrain, suspension body and interior upgrades seems a lot more reasonable.

Jpjr
09-08-08, 10:38 AM
Your logic is a little flawed here. While the CTS has a Base price of $35,000, that's a stripped car with a manual passenger seat and "pleather" interior. No one buying a car of this caliber would accept that, so they don't offer a "stripped" CTS-V.

A more accurate comparison would be a $50,000 loaded CTS, at which point a $10-15k bump for the V's powertrain, suspension body and interior upgrades seems a lot more reasonable.

Fair enough. But perhaps we are both at the extreme. I just priced a 2009 300hp CTS online, I'm guessing that a fairly loaded version could be had for around $40k.

2009 Cadillac CTS DI RWD Sedan
(Select a different vehicle)

MSRP: $37,885.00
Employee Price: $34,482.40
Your Price: $34,482.40*

My brother drives a 2008 AWD CTS that appears quite loaded that was under $40k before the employee discount was offerred.

I suppose my point is that a lot of marginal sales will be won and lost between $59-70k in my opinion.

Cadillac Tony
09-08-08, 10:43 AM
A CTS for at or near $40k is nowhere close to loaded. All the things that come standard on the V (like rear parking sensors, EZ Key, cooled seats, and more) are part of a $10,000 Luxury II package on the V6 CTS.

Comparing employee prices on a V6 to MSRP on the V is a little misleading. MSRP to MSRP the V will most likely carry a ~20% price premium over a loaded V6 CTS, which is consistent with what an M or AMG carries over the more pedestrian model.

Jpjr
09-08-08, 11:56 AM
A CTS for at or near $40k is nowhere close to loaded. All the things that come standard on the V (like rear parking sensors, EZ Key, cooled seats, and more) are part of a $10,000 Luxury II package on the V6 CTS.

Comparing employee prices on a V6 to MSRP on the V is a little misleading. MSRP to MSRP the V will most likely carry a ~20% price premium over a loaded V6 CTS, which is consistent with what an M or AMG carries over the more pedestrian model.

20% is certainly reasonable. Using your logic, any sticker with these luxary options over $60k is not necessarily reasonable relative to the market, correct?

Using my logic, anything over $60k is completely unreasonable seeing where you can realistically buy a nicely done V6 CTS right now.

$60k MSRP and I buy the car right away.

vperl
09-08-08, 04:06 PM
The 09 CTS-V isn't like a ZR1 where there's only approx 1500 units being built per year or the GT-R that's a controlled import just being introduced. Yes it will be of a "limted" production, but something around 7K units per year which is about double the production rates of the 04-07 CTS-Vs and those aren't too hard to get a hold of. We'll see the car show up for (my guess all along) 65-70K. Some dealerships may tack on a premium for some of their first cars, but many won't. They will sell them for MSRP and there's even a Dealership/Salesman here, Cadillac Tony, who was offering it for a little less. Certainly by summertime they will have become available enough that anything over MSRP would be just silly. Plus the Coupe should be starting production then as well.



I can pop for the CTS-V if the price stays in the low 60's loaded, with Warrenty 4K more maybe..

I figure in the total cost, As much as :shhh: I LOVE :duck: Tony, he'd have to come down about a 1.5 K or more since I live in the NW.... :hide:
Thou I'd kinda like to go there if anything is left after this storm season...
biggest problem with climate up here is if you got good rain gear.

EricVonHa
09-08-08, 10:34 PM
I'm extremely impressed with what Caddy has done with the CTS. I rented one for a week not so long ago with the heated/cooled seats and the slickshift-slushomatic. Shifting was "ok", but not stellar. The sightlines from within the car are horrible, but, I'm more confortable with the trunk room as a result/tradeoff. I am verrry impressed with the interior. They've come a loong way.

So, for any dealer that is paying attention:

Let me know when you have an allocation for a car with:

Blue
Manual 6-speed
Recaros

I'll gladly sign on the dotted line for $5k off of MSRP.

By the look of how long the Z06's are sitting on the lots with discounts higher than $7k--- this is no brainer deal.

I can do it now, or a year from now. I can wait. It depends on how motivated the market may be and if there are any sales managers paying attention too ;)

EricVonHa
09-08-08, 10:42 PM
I just don't see GM taking *significant* share from the German competition until the overall brand perception changes, but happy to be proven wrong.


I'm with you. To add to that point, I like what we've seen with regard to Heinricy's competitive lap times with the new V as compared to the Germans. On paper, the new V really holds it own. It does more better than the V1 car. The V1 car got crushed in every comparo that I've seen against the Germans. But, then again, Car and Driver has always been biased in favor of the Germans.

So, I'm hoping the raw performance of the new V isn't an indication of Heinricy's driving-- but more of a real world scenario of the car itself. (devil's advocate disclaimer: Heinricy is a stellar driver and can make any slow car "fast")

vperl
09-08-08, 11:52 PM
Tony, I have an overall idea what I want in, on and around the 2009CTS-V , it is a matter of what the loaded CTS-V is going to be MSRP, and if Dealers are hogs like they are for many cars (GT=R) comes to mind, now they want (Nissan, not the gouging Nissan dealers, 7 K more on the MSRP. Hmm that means the dealers will want about 100K, give or take 5-10 K.

GM, may take note that this turned many folks I know away from even thinking of the Nissan, the Dealers and now Nissan are gouging.

Daniel Cadillac
09-09-08, 05:20 AM
While everybody patiently waits for the announcement of the MSRP and the availability of this vehicle, there is a GM employee who drives one to work everyday. ;)

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/CTS-V001.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/CTS-V002.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/CTS-V004.jpg

Daniel Cadillac
09-09-08, 05:26 AM
And yes, he drives more than one. :)

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/medium_2784933989_99c673dc08_o.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/medium_2785786796_3a126b487a_o.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/medium_2784931911_9ca409e0dc_o.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/medium_2785785400_4dd9320a8d_o.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/medium_2785786302_a8766bae82_o.jpg

atdeneve
09-09-08, 06:26 AM
Ummm, those are the pictures from Jalopnik's quick preview:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/148575-jalopnik-write-up-new-v.html
Who's to say you didn't just swipe a couple pics off the web and are now claiming them as your own daily drives?

I don't believe you! Prove it! Drive it on over to my house and we'll call it the truth.

CIWS
09-09-08, 07:13 AM
You guys talking about Z06s sitting on the lot and trying to compare that to the market for this car, are you really serious ? If I was looking for a two seat car that has a "rough" ride in the 70-75K range what's available for an auto purchase just opened up much wider. Although potential buyers may cross the lines some, generally speaking they are not in the same demographic. I would never look at a Z06 as my one and only D.D.

Cadillac Tony
09-09-08, 08:51 AM
....and it's a 3 year old model. If you had tried to find a Z06 sitting on a lot back in 2006, you'd be looking for a while. Most of them around here sold between $5k and $15k over sticker for the first year.

I've already posted in numerous threads that I will NOT be price gouging CTS-Vs. $5k off though? That probably won't happen for a while.

Florian
09-09-08, 09:40 AM
hate to threadjack....Z06's are now nearly 15K off sticker at many places....Im really tempted to put one in the garage next to the V...

Oh, and Tony, you know what Im looking for...they should start showing up in Oct/Nov.....let me know, Ill make the trip.

F

Kadonny
09-09-08, 09:44 AM
I want that red with ebony/cashmere interior. Sold.

vperl
09-09-08, 09:54 AM
20% is certainly reasonable. Using your logic, any sticker with these luxary options over $60k is not necessarily reasonable relative to the market, correct?

Using my logic, anything over $60k is completely unreasonable seeing where you can realistically buy a nicely done V6 CTS right now.

$60k MSRP and I buy the car right away.


Yes, the rip begins when the get gready, but who is not gready? :eek::thepan: I'd put in a order today if I knew the total loaded price with warranty was 60K Love to own the CTS-V, but I will walk away when they gouge me... :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thepan:

Cadillac Tony
09-09-08, 04:06 PM
System updated with TPW dates today:

11/3 for our first unit, 11/17 for the second. Cars usually arrive at our Dealership 10-15 days after being produced. :)

urbanski
09-09-08, 04:35 PM
there ya go folks

chris1268
09-09-08, 04:39 PM
System updated with TPW dates today:

11/3 for our first unit, 11/17 for the second. Cars usually arrive at our Dealership 10-15 days after being produced. :)

Tony, what is a "TPW" date?

The_Judge
09-09-08, 05:07 PM
Yes, the rip begins when the get gready, but who is not gready? :eek::thepan: I'd put in a order today if I knew the total loaded price with warranty was 60K Love to own the CTS-V, but I will walk away when they gouge me... :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thepan:Pe rhaps the pricing of Mercedes is a guide. A 2009 E350, which is arguable in the same class as a base model CTS, has a MSRP of $52,775. The 2009 E63AMG, arguably a close competitor of the 2009 CTS-V, has an MSRP of $86,875, a 64.6% premium. Gouging?

vperl
09-09-08, 05:48 PM
Yes, gouging.. when every single individual & organization and even the sales people claim the vehicle will be starting at about 60K or less...
86K is tomy way of thinking moving way past any thing reasonable or market smart. That is up to GM to not care to sell out the years production....or more if they wish...:banghead:

The_Judge
09-09-08, 06:21 PM
Well, the MSRP on the 2008 CTS DI is $36,720; 164.6% of that would be $60,441.

vperl
09-09-08, 07:04 PM
Well, the MSRP on the 2008 CTS DI is $36,720; 164.6% of that would be $60,441.



Seems to me that no more than 20k or so from the CTS-DI would cover any costs, but that again is GM ... they can be like the rest and sell all they can make or NOT...:cool2::shhh::bighead:

Cadillac Tony
09-09-08, 07:40 PM
Seems to me that no more than 20k or so from the CTS-DI would cover any costs, but that again is GM ... they can be like the rest and sell all they can make or NOT...:cool2::shhh::bighead:

If the CTS DI were fully loaded like a V (rear sensors, 40gb HDD, cooled seats, memory/heat/lumbar, rainsense, etc), then $20k will cover it. Why people insist on comparing a stripped V6 to a loaded V is beyond me.

A Z06 stickers for $73k, and brought MSRP or above for the first year it was out. If you think paying $5k less for a loaded CTS-V with a better ride, 2 more doors, more power, more luxury features and an interior 100x nicer than any Corvette......well, I think you're looking at the wrong car.

The 2009 CTS-V is not a "value" car- trying to do that is what made the 04-07 CTS-V fall short of its competitors. If you don't see $15k-$18k of value over a loaded DI CTS, then buy one of those instead of a V.


Tony, what is a "TPW" date?

That's the date it's supposed to be built.

LV_V
09-09-08, 07:49 PM
System updated with TPW dates today:

11/3 for our first unit, 11/17 for the second. Cars usually arrive at our Dealership 10-15 days after being produced. :)

I know these are probably preliminary dates (I'm hoping), but why are they spaced two weeks apart? Any particular reason that you can rationalize?

Cadillac Tony
09-09-08, 08:19 PM
I would assume that they spread the first week's worth of orders evenly among the Dealers with allocation, otherwise the quickest people to a keyboard would hoard the first 100 of them.

Chances are that our first order was accepted and scheduled, and then once everyone else with allocation got a TPW date for their first one, GM began scheduling the second one we ordered, and so on.

vperl
09-09-08, 09:02 PM
If the CTS DI were fully loaded like a V (rear sensors, 40gb HDD, cooled seats, memory/heat/lumbar, rainsense, etc), then $20k will cover it. Why people insist on comparing a stripped V6 to a loaded V is beyond me.

A Z06 stickers for $73k, and brought MSRP or above for the first year it was out. If you think paying $5k less for a loaded CTS-V with a better ride, 2 more doors, more power, more luxury features and an interior 100x nicer than any Corvette......well, I think you're looking at the wrong car.

The 2009 CTS-V is not a "value" car- trying to do that is what made the 04-07 CTS-V fall short of its competitors. If you don't see $15k-$18k of value over a loaded DI CTS, then buy one of those instead of a V.




That's the date it's supposed to be built.

I have seen the GREED explode in other car makers and dealers, I will stand on the sidelines and have others pop for 75-85K that make dealers happy as a clam and for the moment the makers, like GM :welcome:

Jpjr
09-10-08, 12:12 AM
The 2009 CTS-V is not a "value" car- trying to do that is what made the 04-07 CTS-V fall short of its competitors. If you don't see $15k-$18k of value over a loaded DI CTS, then buy one of those instead of a V.




This car is overpriced near $70k. It will not sell, and that is coming from a GM loyalist with a family full of employees. That is more than an IS-F and more than an M3 (for an extra golf bag in the trunk, or a couple tenths quicker than an M5?) I want what is best for the Company as much as anyone and over-pricing this car is not a smart play if they want showroom traffic post-launch.

I agree with your logic that a 20% premium at $60k makes sense.

Nutz
09-10-08, 12:59 AM
And yes, he drives more than one. :)

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/medium_2784933989_99c673dc08_o.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/medium_2785786796_3a126b487a_o.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/medium_2784931911_9ca409e0dc_o.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/medium_2785785400_4dd9320a8d_o.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/judainejamalreid/medium_2785786302_a8766bae82_o.jpg




One hell of a ninth post (roast)! PLEASE pm me with the pics of both of them racing each other at the local track... C'mon you know you have em. Reminds me of the GNX release.

Nice post.:cloud9:

vperl
09-10-08, 01:26 AM
Does anyone else find it odd that the orders have moved to 3000 status and there is still no pricing? I really wanted one of these cars but GM is almost trying to get me not to buy one. RELEASE THE F!ING PRICING ALREADY. Damn.




GM or what ever is playing a stupid :cookoo: game, I agree with you. I have two other vehicles I am looking at that would also be great " FOR" me .
seems l9ike the push to forget the CTS-V is moving forward, who is the silly goose that buys without any idea about the final price. Must be someone that never earned any money, :ill: just got it handed to them....

I am not surprised at all :stirpot::stirpot:

CIWS
09-10-08, 11:41 AM
This car is overpriced near $70k. It will not sell, and that is coming from a GM loyalist with a family full of employees. That is more than an IS-F and more than an M3 (for an extra golf bag in the trunk, or a couple tenths quicker than an M5?)

Neither one of those cars is the market Cadillac is targeting with the 09V. However an IS-F with it's options will reach into the low 60s and an M3 sedan can get to the same price level as what we expect for an 09V (65-70K) if equipped with similar options. So more car for approx. the same cash ? Why do you think the car won't sell if it's priced at roughly the same level as the competitor's vehicle in a lower class ?

Jpjr
09-10-08, 12:19 PM
Neither one of those cars is the market Cadillac is targeting with the 09V. However an IS-F with it's options will reach into the low 60s and an M3 sedan can get to the same price level as what we expect for an 09V (65-70K) if equipped with similar options. So more car for approx. the same cash ? Why do you think the car won't sell if it's priced at roughly the same level as the competitor's vehicle in a lower class ?

Respectfully, this is a common misperception in my opinion. What defines class? In my mind class is determined by price. This is how the car magazines compare cars because people buy what they can afford. A ZR1 is a smokin' deal over a Ferrari, but I won't be buying one because I still can't afford it.

Someone with $60k to spend is going to look at their options, not necessarily value. Using the logic on this board, anyone on Earth would buy a CTS-V over an M3 at $70k. Well, that is simply not reality. I can't explain why, I'm just applying reality over theory.

If they price the car to attract M3/IS-F shoppers (the math says this class is much bigger because the price is lower), and can scream value over M5/E63 buyers... they will have a hit on thier hands that I have to believe will still be profitable with the way they intend to leverage the CTS platform.

This is all my opinion.

The_Judge
09-10-08, 12:22 PM
Cars in the V's class aren't priced or sold like family sedans. When I bought my 2004 E55, it was shear luck and timing. The lease was about up on my 1999 E320AWD, and I had gone to the dealership to find a replacement. The salesman pointed out the E55, which had just been put on the showroom floor. It was a completely revised model, not unlike the 2009 CTS-V, and this car was one of the first in L.A. When my heart rate dropped below 160, I asked to drive it, and when we returned to the showroom I agreed to buy it -- for $10K over list (and worth every last penny, IMHO).

By then, however, there were several other potential buyers in the showroom, all demanding to buy the car. Apparently every salesman in the place had promised it to several different buyers, about 40 in all according to my salesman (great way to do business, no?). I refused to let go of the keys, even when another salesman demanded them and tried to pull them from my clenched fist. His customer, a young doctor, was literally waving his arms madly and screaming that he would pay $15K MORE than me. Too bad for him!

The difference in cost in such cars is not just due to demand, nor is it simply because it has a bigger engine. I'm not sure about the V, but the E55 (now E63) is essentially hand-built by a small team of specialists. It's therefore neither surprising nor unreasonable that it costs 2/3 more than the base model. You may not think it's worth the difference, but it certainly isn't gouging. The fact that such cars often sell for well over sticker is simply a matter of supply and demand -- why would you expect any businessman to sell you something for less than he can get from another buyer?

http://rdcollins.smugmug.com/photos/284232143_G9Rgz-O.jpg

CIWS
09-10-08, 12:43 PM
Respectfully, this is a common misperception in my opinion. What defines class? In my mind class is determined by price.

The 09V is a luxury performance sedan sporting 500+ horsepower and torque besides a list of other performance marks. This places it in the class / realm of the M5 and S/C'd AMG cars. Not the 400-450 HP range of the M3, IS-F, and C63. There are relatively few luxury performance sedans in the same class with over 500 HP off the showroom floor and of all of those cars the 09V should be priced at least 15K less that it's nearest competitor.


Someone with $60k to spend is going to look at their options, not necessarily value.

Someone with 60K max to spend isn't going to be buying an 09 CTS-V anytime soon after it's first released. Probably not until a year later when they may be able to pick up one discounted at model year's end or get a slightly used one for that money. That's my opinion based on what pricing rumor we can divulge from what's out there. So if anyone's max is going to be 60K I would say they need to look at another car if they have to purchase in the next year.

vperl
09-10-08, 12:50 PM
:eek:
Neither one of those cars is the market Cadillac is targeting with the 09V. However an IS-F with it's options will reach into the low 60s and an M3 sedan can get to the same price level as what we expect for an 09V (65-70K) if equipped with similar options. So more car for approx. the same cash ? Why do you think the car won't sell if it's priced at roughly the same level as the competitor's vehicle in a lower class ?

:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :eek: :eek: :eek: :want: :want:

There are car makers like GM & Ford,and the Euro crowd that wish to gouge the market with the help of the dealers.... I look at a car that has many of the things I want. If another vehicle is not as fantastic as another, I look at the price.... Even a Audi I looked at is fantastic vehicle, the dealer had one comming in a week I could get, at a reasonable price. I decided to wait, wait untill I see what I pretty much have come to the conclusion..GM like many other makers... will probably either set the base price so high that when you get a stero system your payaing 12-20 K over base sticker, or setthe base price outta the market segment of the car. .
I can get several fully loaded vehicles that will flip my switch for way under
the CTS-V base price (60-65K) some are throwing around on these pages.
GM is doing NO ONE a favor, if they go high, then one has to spend another 15K to get a stero & nav system.... on the 2009 CTS-V

I hand no blank checks to anyone, others may do so.... they probably never worked & sweated for the money in the first place... given & found cash is easy to throw away...

CIWS
09-10-08, 12:58 PM
GM is doing NO ONE a favor, if they go high, then one has to spend another 15K to get a stero & nav system.... on the 2009 CTS-V

The V Series of cars in the past have come pretty much loaded for the advertised MSRP, with a few minor options that may not even apply to some (engine block heater). The 09 CTS-V appears to be a little different and have some options that will cost extra above base price. But those are auto xmission, recaro seats, sunroof, etc. Things that some folks may not want to have on their car, but as far as the interior, stereo, and the like I would think this V is going to be like the previous models in the series and comes with the top of the line available for the car as a :v: in it's price tag unlike what BMUU and MB do.

Cadillac Tony
09-10-08, 01:19 PM
Respectfully, this is a common misperception in my opinion. What defines class? In my mind class is determined by price. This is how the car magazines compare cars because people buy what they can afford.

Respectfully, that makes no sense at all. If that were true, a Z06 Corvette would be in the same class and a competitor to the Escalade ESV, since they're both about $75,000? Ridiculous. "Class" is determined by a combination of size and available features, nothing more. There are subclasses in each size (such as "midsize luxury" and "midsize economy" for example), but the defining factors are size and equipment.

The CTS is, and always has been a competitor to the 5 series BMW and E-Class Mercedes. One of its key advantages is that it's priced comparably to the much smaller 3 series and C-Class.

A CTS-V gets you comparable equipment and size of an M5 or E63, but at the price of an M3 or C63.


:eek:

:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :eek: :eek: :eek: :want: :want:

There are car makers like GM & Ford,and the Euro crowd that wish to gouge the market with the help of the dealers.... .GM like many other makers... will probably either set the base price so high that when you get a stero system your payaing 12-20 K over base sticker, or setthe base price outta the market segment of the car. .
GM is doing NO ONE a favor, if they go high, then one has to spend another 15K to get a stero & nav system.... on the 2009 CTS-V.

The factory doesn't benefit when a Dealer charges above MSRP, so that theory is right out. In addition, the few small options on the CTS-V are the Nav screen, Recaro seats and a sunroof, and all of those features are also optional on the M5 and E63. The cost will certainly not be $12 or $15 thousand- more like $5k to $8k for everything.

vperl
09-10-08, 01:21 PM
The V Series of cars in the past have come pretty much loaded for the advertised MSRP, with a few minor options that may not even apply to some (engine block heater). The 09 CTS-V appears to be a little different and have some options that will cost extra above base price. But those are auto xmission, recaro seats, sunroof, etc. Things that some folks may not want to have on their car, but as far as the interior, stereo, and the like I would think this V is going to be like the previous models in the series and comes with the top of the line available for the car as a :v: in it's price tag unlike what BMUU and MB do.


:thepan: :thepan: :thepan: bighead: :bighead: :bighead:


I can hope that the price with an Automatic & sporty seats is not over a price that is silly compared to what is already in the market place.

I love speculation, makes me happy....:lies: :lies: :lies: :lies: :lies: :lies:

GM might think hard on releasing the pricing real soon, or let the folks that do not hand over blank checks to Auto dealers a reason to move to another vehicle... I know that the people I have talked to here in the great NW have the cash, but are not going to be held hostage... buy a Euro, or Asian vehicle. same type of vehicle for way less loaded to the gills... :sneaky:

When I buy I hand the dealer the money.... others can lease, or what ever,
I own what I drive, the bank is not my partner.

Cadillac Tony
09-10-08, 01:33 PM
I can't speak for any other dealers, but I have not taken or asked for a "blank check" from a single person. Three folks have reserved their CTS-V with me for $1,000, which is fully refundable if they are not happy with the MSRP once it is announced.

CIWS
09-10-08, 01:38 PM
When I buy I hand the dealer the money.... others can lease, or what ever,
I own what I drive, the bank is not my partner.

Then set aside 67K maybe a little less. I'm betting that will cover auto and recaro.

chris1268
09-10-08, 02:38 PM
:eek:

:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :eek: :eek: :eek: :want: :want:



I hand no blank checks to anyone, others may do so.... they probably never worked & sweated for the money in the first place... given & found cash is easy to throw away...

I have now seen several people referring to cars being paid for. I have placed an order for the new V2 but by no means have written a blank check. I have $1000 dollar fully refundable deposit down. I would highly doubt one person on here does not have a refundable deposit so why the constant refrences to people ordering a car without knowing the price. Does it really matter - if the price is to high then we get out. I personally have earned every cent I have nothing handed to me. That is why the V2 is such a pretty site to me. It's something I can actually afford in a great luxury sedan.

Jpjr
09-10-08, 04:07 PM
Respectfully, that makes no sense at all. If that were true, a Z06 Corvette would be in the same class and a competitor to the Escalade ESV, since they're both about $75,000? Ridiculous. "Class" is determined by a combination of size and available features, nothing more. There are subclasses in each size (such as "midsize luxury" and "midsize economy" for example), but the defining factors are size and equipment.


.

I'll spare the sarcastic response, obviously pricing within a comparable segment was implied. You seem to have out-smarted the car magazines that do exactly what I said. Unfortunately for us they do impact hype and sales.

Hopefully the high MSRP theory fares better for the V2 than it did the STS-V.. or XLR-V... or any other mis-priced Cadillac with disappointing sales and substantial discounts post-launch. If they sell 7000 units a year at $70k I will be the first to gladly eat my words. I guess we'll see.

Cadillac Tony
09-10-08, 04:36 PM
I'm still trying to figure out where the $70k number comes from. I think it's been made plainly obvious that the car is going to base out for $59,xxx, with a fully loaded one hitting mid-60's. How does a minimal increase of $10-15k from a loaded V6 qualify it as "overpriced"?

The car magazines are also notorious for comparing wildly dissimilar vehicles (in terms of price). I've never once seen a comparison between an XLR-V and a regular SL550, both of which cost $100k. Nope- they always compare the base XLR to the SL550, and the V to the S55 AMG. Why? Features and power, not price.

1BAD4DR
09-10-08, 04:46 PM
Hay guys I'm new to this forum. and to let you guys know i did my order to day on the 2009 CTS-V:dance::xo:

Cadillac Tony
09-10-08, 05:02 PM
Welcome aboard, and congratulations on the car! :thumbsup:

P-Funk
09-10-08, 05:25 PM
I hand no blank checks to anyone, others may do so.... they probably never worked & sweated for the money in the first place... given & found cash is easy to throw away...

The brilliance of statements like this always amazes me. :bigroll:

dqw1
09-10-08, 05:46 PM
I don't know about anyone else but I don't want Caddie to try to be like BMW or MB. The formula of the V1 options worked the last time around. The options were sunroof or not and the NAV wasn't extra, it was standard. For whatever the price the base V2 might be, the NAV should be standard or have the option to not select it in this segment. Maybe the only options should be the recaro seats, sunroof (optional) and the fuzzy steering wheel and shifter. Keep it simple and don't try to be german. F-them!

Jpjr
09-10-08, 07:54 PM
I'm still trying to figure out where the $70k number comes from. I think it's been made plainly obvious that the car is going to base out for $59,xxx, with a fully loaded one hitting mid-60's. How does a minimal increase of $10-15k from a loaded V6 qualify it as "overpriced"?

The car magazines are also notorious for comparing wildly dissimilar vehicles (in terms of price). I've never once seen a comparison between an XLR-V and a regular SL550, both of which cost $100k. Nope- they always compare the base XLR to the SL550, and the V to the S55 AMG. Why? Features and power, not price.

I've been saying the car is over-priced over base $60k MSRP. I presume you have been disagreeing with me based upon your responses to my posts. $70k was the next round number.

Regarding the car magazines, it has been a long running sore point for CTS-V enthusiasts that the car pops up in numerous comparos vs the M3. I have read many more M3 comparisons than M5, and you see lots of angry reader mail in response. It's because of the price, as the editors say.

Cadillac Tony
09-10-08, 08:28 PM
These are the same magazines that ran comparisons between the CTS-V and RS4, even though the RS4 was $23,000 more expensive.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0608_2006_audi_rs4_vs_2006_cadillac_cts_v/index.html

I'm not trying to be rude or argumentative, but magazines compare cars of similar features, purpose and size- not price.

CIWS
09-10-08, 08:44 PM
I've been saying between 65-70K all along. 65K w/ gas guzzler tax starts getting closer to 70K and if a person is buying and financing the car the final price will be far above that.

terminal Velocity
09-10-08, 08:47 PM
I've been saying the car is over-priced over base $60k MSRP. I presume you have been disagreeing with me based upon your responses to my posts. $70k was the next round number.

Regarding the car magazines, it has been a long running sore point for CTS-V enthusiasts that the car pops up in numerous comparos vs the M3. I have read many more M3 comparisons than M5, and you see lots of angry reader mail in response. It's because of the price, as the editors say.Hey, let me borrow your blinders sometime...

terminal Velocity
09-10-08, 08:48 PM
Also, I love how people are so insistive of going to another automaker if they don't get pricing now. Fine,go ahead. But if the car wasn't worth it, why is this thread so long and the argument so heated?

Hot air, I'm thinking.

Dualcams34
09-10-08, 09:38 PM
The V's are coming along very nicely in the plant. No schedule change has been made for anything like excessive inventory or quality bugs. This car is carefully being processes and GM is going to great lengths to make this a World Class car. So if you can't wait for it someone else will buy it.. Production for saleable is in Mid Oct. so it won't be long. Let me tell you this is one sweet machine.

Jpjr
09-10-08, 10:36 PM
These are the same magazines that ran comparisons between the CTS-V and RS4, even though the RS4 was $23,000 more expensive.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0608_2006_audi_rs4_vs_2006_cadillac_cts_v/index.html

I'm not trying to be rude or argumentative, but magazines compare cars of similar features, purpose and size- not price.


Neither am I. This is why I'm trying to understand why you are not acknowledging the multitude of comparisons between the M3 and V1.

Jpjr
09-10-08, 10:45 PM
Hey, let me borrow your blinders sometime...

You talk about hot air with so much group think on this board. 99% of people here bash BMW, Audi, etc. and have never actually driven one of their cars?

terminal Velocity
09-10-08, 10:48 PM
You talk about hot air with so much group think on this board. 99% of people here bash BMW, Audi, etc. and have never actually driven one of their cars?I like German cars. Love BMWs. If I had the extra $$$, I'd have bought an M5. In fact, if the V2 doesn't impress, I'll gladly go for a new M3.

Cadillac Tony
09-10-08, 11:34 PM
Neither am I. This is why I'm trying to understand why you are not acknowledging the multitude of comparisons between the M3 and V1.

I don't claim they haven't happened, but I will claim that it's a poor choice to compare.

Here's a link to a comparison from Automobile magazine (http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0409_cadillac_cts_bmw_m3_audi_s4/index.html). The article contains this caveat near the beginning:


We have been mightily impressed with the CTS-V-not just "for a Cadillac" but impressed, period. The only way to assess its greatness is to stack it up against the best competitive cars. The ultimate CTS-V challenger is the BMW M5 sedan, but since the previous version of that car is gone and the new one won't be available for another year, we'll save that comparison for another day.

See? Even they acknowledge it.

Here's a link to another big test (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/coupes/chevy_corvette_z06_vs_dodge_viper_srt10_acr_nissan _gt_r_porsche_911_gt2_comparison_test/(page)/1): Viper vs. GT-R vs. 911 GT2 vs. Z06. The prices range from $77,670 to $198,875, which would be a ridiculous comparison using your logic. The reason they chose these cars is because of their similarities in size, performance and purpose- not price.

I'm sorry, but you can't convince me that price is the defining factor in determining a car's competitors.

1BAD4DR
09-11-08, 10:51 AM
thank's tony

dwjz06
09-11-08, 12:54 PM
thank's tony:thumbsup:

caddiedrummer
09-11-08, 12:59 PM
I have an 06 M5 I am trading on the 09 V. If anyone wants a great deal on a Bimmer, let me know.

1BAD4DR
09-12-08, 01:37 PM
I have an 06 M5 I am trading on the 09 V. If anyone wants a great deal on a Bimmer, let me know.

doing the same on 06 SRT8 300c

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/jimssrt8/DSC01214.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/jimssrt8/DSC01204.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/jimssrt8/DSC01213.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/jimssrt8/DSC01214.jpg

vperl
09-12-08, 02:07 PM
Then set aside 67K maybe a little less. I'm betting that will cover auto and recaro.


Atually that my plan, just waiting till the salesman hype and rush to order dies down, maybe even wait till more than just few folk actually have the vehicle, no incentive involved individauls allowed, only buyers. :lildevil:
:canttalk:

vperl
09-12-08, 02:17 PM
I don't claim they haven't happened, but I will claim that it's a poor choice to compare.

Here's a link to a comparison from Automobile magazine (http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0409_cadillac_cts_bmw_m3_audi_s4/index.html). The article contains this caveat near the beginning:



See? Even they acknowledge it.

Here's a link to another big test (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/coupes/chevy_corvette_z06_vs_dodge_viper_srt10_acr_nissan _gt_r_porsche_911_gt2_comparison_test/(page)/1): Viper vs. GT-R vs. 911 GT2 vs. Z06. The prices range from $77,670 to $198,875, which would be a ridiculous comparison using your logic. The reason they chose these cars is because of their similarities in size, performance and purpose- not price.

I'm sorry, but you can't convince me that price is the defining factor in determining a car's competitors.


There are some that wish not to compare a 2 door & 4 door on the reason peodple want the car... Not on the number of doors, but I do understand the
opposition in the folks that are on the selling side of these vehicles. To remind them that the GT-R or any car that is evn close to the CTS-V in price is not a comparision lacks the ability... why spend 75K - 85K sticker
on a Cts-V when faster cars for a lower MSRP is being made?

I know that the purists will scream, but GM probably has that figured out, leaving the scurriors running for cover. I love scurriors, my best friend is one. :D

CIWS
09-12-08, 07:32 PM
To remind them that the GT-R or any car that is evn close to the CTS-V in price is not a comparision lacks the ability... why spend 75K - 85K sticker on a Cts-V when faster cars for a lower MSRP is being made?

75-85K on a CTS-V ? There have been no projections or predictions of the car costing that much.

V-Love
09-12-08, 08:53 PM
Chris(#1),
Are you gonna do the warranty voiding turbo. If you do, you can get better terms. Cheap hourly labor and parts at cost if it blows sounds like a start. You could be the first to break the new diff.(I heard it can't be done):stirpot:.

Jpjr
09-13-08, 11:30 AM
I don't claim they haven't happened, but I will claim that it's a poor choice to compare.

Here's a link to a comparison from Automobile magazine (http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0409_cadillac_cts_bmw_m3_audi_s4/index.html). The article contains this caveat near the beginning:



See? Even they acknowledge it.

Here's a link to another big test (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/coupes/chevy_corvette_z06_vs_dodge_viper_srt10_acr_nissan _gt_r_porsche_911_gt2_comparison_test/(page)/1): Viper vs. GT-R vs. 911 GT2 vs. Z06. The prices range from $77,670 to $198,875, which would be a ridiculous comparison using your logic. The reason they chose these cars is because of their similarities in size, performance and purpose- not price.

I'm sorry, but you can't convince me that price is the defining factor in determining a car's competitors.


And then you pick up Car and Driver this month and on the cover it says "Best car for $25,000"....

And the Automobile comparo could have been the M5 instead of the M3... lets just agree to disagree. :o

Cadillac Tony
09-13-08, 12:16 PM
Good idea.

HiTechRV
09-13-08, 01:29 PM
I'll spare the sarcastic response, obviously pricing within a comparable segment was implied. You seem to have out-smarted the car magazines that do exactly what I said. Unfortunately for us they do impact hype and sales.

Hopefully the high MSRP theory fares better for the V2 than it did the STS-V.. or XLR-V... or any other mis-priced Cadillac with disappointing sales and substantial discounts post-launch. If they sell 7000 units a year at $70k I will be the first to gladly eat my words. I guess we'll see.

I thought there was an initial target of more like 1500 or 3000 per year. This is a halo car. There is no way GM wants to sell enough of them to have a negative impact on CAFE numbers.