: Maybe The STS Isnt the Flag Ship?



majax
06-13-04, 08:52 PM
I know in the 90's at least it was the flag ship but for all we know there could be something coming out next year that will be the real flag ship. Maybe the STS is just gona be used to fill the $40,000 range like the CTS takes care of the $30,000 range. There just may be another car that starts out a 50 and will truly take on the competition like the RL, A6, etc.

cruzajc1
06-13-04, 09:01 PM
Yea it's called the 2005 STS Look in Automobile Magazine and you will piss your pants the 05 is incredible.:bighead:

b4z
06-13-04, 09:18 PM
Huh?

'05 STS is $41-62K.

DTS will remain FWD and have a bigger interior/exterior than STS.

CTS/SRX/STS are built on the Sigma platform and are fairly narrow vehicles.

There will be another ultra luxury car built on the Sigma Heavy platform.

Pete03Z06
06-13-04, 11:16 PM
The CTS is meant to take on the 3 Series, C-class, A4, etc...as the new STS is to the 5 series, E-Class and A6. I suppose at this moment there is no direct competitor for the larger S class/7 series/A8...but Caddy really should have one. I thought a RWD, larger and more upscale DTS could do the trick but if Cadillac has something else up their sleeves...by all means. :coolgleam

MEJIA
06-14-04, 02:20 PM
The CTS is meant to take on the 3 Series, C-class, A4, etc...as the new STS is to the 5 series, E-Class and A6. I suppose at this moment there is no direct competitor for the larger S class/7 series/A8...but Caddy really should have one. I thought a RWD, larger and more upscale DTS could do the trick but if Cadillac has something else up their sleeves...by all means. :coolgleam


A RWD DTS sedan would definetly do the trick!!! :lildevil:

miscreant
06-14-04, 02:57 PM
The CTS is meant to take on the 3 Series, C-class, A4, etc...as the new STS is to the 5 series, E-Class and A6. I suppose at this moment there is no direct competitor for the larger S class/7 series/A8...but Caddy really should have one. I thought a RWD, larger and more upscale DTS could do the trick but if Cadillac has something else up their sleeves...by all means. :coolgleam
Watch for a *slight* redesign to the CTS and some additional equipment to push the CTS into 5 series territory. It already beats the 5 series in most aspects except for equipment. The CTS is larger than the 3 series, and almost the same size interior wise (in some aspects larger) than the 5 series. Watch for additions in power of the STS (as well as the STS-V) to bridge into the S class and 7 series territory.

Cadence
06-14-04, 07:48 PM
What kind of "slight" re-design are they thinking about for the CTS? I like it how it is, right now! I hope Lutz isn't about to round of the edges on this car as well, that would be suicide for the looks of this car, IMO. If any car needs a "slight" re-design, it should be the STS. They also need to re do their options for this car as well.

I think the CTS should be the challenger to the 3 series and CLK, and the STS should be the challenger to the 5 series and E-Class. It just makes better sense to me. The DTS should be the offering opposite of the 7-series and S-class. Give the DTS, RWD, an additional 75 hp, and a price that undercuts the competition (much like the CTS and XLR), and it should litterally fly off the show room floors (as long as the exterior isn't "Lutz-ed". The DTS, IMO, should rival the S-Class in looks......).

The DTS should probably be the flagship for the time being, since it appears that the STS will be no more than an showcase of technology, which is sad to me. The STS should be a strong member in Cadillac's collection, not a show piece to say "Look at what we can do with our cars! See the Gee whiz gadgets we have now?! Look at all the pretty buttons we have!" I think they need to take a more serious approach with the STS, in order for it to be the flag ship of Cadillac.

majax
06-15-04, 01:20 AM
Should we write a formal complaint to General Motors about how Bob Lutz isnt good enough. You think they would listen i mean we are the people who buy and love cadillacs?

just jokin

Vesicant
06-15-04, 05:40 PM
I wanna see a DTS redesign sooo bad... for 2005-6.

Whats the time schedule for the DeVille anyways? When will they redesign it?


I think this was discussed before but i cant recall what it was..

megeebee
06-15-04, 06:16 PM
I read a quote by Mark LaNeve while at the New York Auto Show that the DTS ("Deville" will be retired) is due for the 2006 model year. This means we'll see it by August of '05, probably earlier.

megeebee

Pete03Z06
07-06-04, 01:31 PM
I also think it's a bad move to position the CTS against the 5 series. That leaves nothing for the thousands upon thousands who want a smaller 3 series competitor. Small - Medium - Large is how it should be as far as I'm concerned, and maybe an ETC (Eldorado Touring Coupe) to go against either the CLK or CL series?

gothicaleigh
07-06-04, 02:29 PM
Watch for a *slight* redesign to the CTS and some additional equipment to push the CTS into 5 series territory.

It better be very slight. :mad:
I would applaud an interior material improvement (finish what was started with the V upgrades), but the designs should stay the same.

If they 'Lutz' the exterior of the CTS after the success that it has had, I swear I'm going to BMW (okay, maybe not, but... I won't be happy :p ). The STS should have continued the Art&Science creases, but instead they threw a CTS and a DeVille in a mixer. It's confused.




As for the flagship status, maybe things will change when the STS gets here, but for now it's fairly certain in all the commercials and brochures that the XLR sits in that position now.

diamond in the back
07-06-04, 04:55 PM
I am also eager to see how the next DTS is going to turn out and if it's going to be fwd or rwd. I think there going to pull another STS and unveil it at next years NY autoshow and not the Detroit autoshow like I'm hoping. cadillac has got me excited about future autos with (my)05 STS, the 06 DTS and the next escalade. I really can't wait to see how the next escalade is going to turn out because cadillac has already showed it to some ball players and rappers to see what they think. I will be getting a 05 STS next spring and by that time the STS-V will have been shown here in Detroit and I will see (how it looks,power) and if it's more then I wanna spend on a car.

megeebee
07-06-04, 06:09 PM
I am also eager to see how the next DTS is going to turn out and if it's going to be fwd or rwd. I think there going to pull another STS and unveil it at next years NY autoshow and not the Detroit autoshow like I'm hoping. cadillac has got me excited about future autos with (my)05 STS, the 06 DTS and the next escalade. I really can't wait to see how the next escalade is going to turn out because cadillac has already showed it to some ball players and rappers to see what they think. I will be getting a 05 STS next spring and by that time the STS-V will have been shown here in Detroit and I will see (how it looks,power) and if it's more then I wanna spend on a car.I think it's been established that the new DTS will remain FWD. Even so, I'm excited to see it. I think you're right about the New York Auto Show as a debut for the new design. Cadillac won't want to kill sales of the current model by showing the new one too soon.

megeebee
07-06-04, 06:28 PM
It better be very slight. :mad:
I would applaud an interior material improvement (finish what was started with the V upgrades), but the designs should stay the same.

If they 'Lutz' the exterior of the CTS after the success that it has had, I swear I'm going to BMW (okay, maybe not, but... I won't be happy :p ). The STS should have continued the Art&Science creases, but instead they threw a CTS and a DeVille in a mixer. It's confused.




As for the flagship status, maybe things will change when the STS gets here, but for now it's fairly certain in all the commercials and brochures that the XLR sits in that position now.I agree. I love my CTS, and never tire of looking at it. Also, I would think that management at GM would not be stupid enough to kill a style and direction that has been so successful. The CTS, and "Art & Science" in general represent nothing short of a new paradigm in auto design. We have Cadillac, and its previous manager John Smith, to thank for the demise of the ubiquitous "jellybean" that held sway for so long. You don't have to look far to see other manufacturers copying all or part of the themes first shown nearly 6 years ago with the Evoq, and the production Cadillacs it foreshadowed. As far as your comments about the interior is concerned, I agree with you as well. The designers' intent is clear to me, but something was lost on the way to production. And by the way, I don't think simply throwing board-feet of wood veneer at it is the only answer.
As for Mr. Lutz; don't be too harsh. GM is much better with him than without. His influence has seen GM Design emerge from behind the engineering dept. as important in its own right. Believe it or not, the idea of allowing their highly trained and talented designers to actually design is a relatively new idea at GM. Where I would take issue, as you do, is when his(or any one persons) personal taste is regarded above any other. In other words, let's hope the whole of the GM portfoilio dosen't start to look alike. I'm done with the soap box. Anyone else want to use it?.........

kippjones
07-09-04, 03:23 AM
The flag ship should be the XLR.

Rauf
07-10-04, 06:39 PM
The current flagship is DeVille (including DHS and DTS), because it's the largest sedan among all Cadillac vehicles, as well as MB's S-classe and BMW's 7-series.

gothicaleigh
07-10-04, 10:14 PM
Just because it's the largest, doesn't make it the flagship. By your logic, the Escalade would be it.
A division's flagship is the car that they put out front to represent the brand. It is usually the most advanced vehicle they have and a sign of where they are going. That is why BMW has their 7 series in that position. Other companies that don't have sedan flagdships are Chevy and Dodge with the Corvette and the Viper.

Currently Cadillac's flagship is unquestionably the XLR. Read the brochures and see how they position it in the ads...
Maybe this will change with the STS, we'll have to wait and see...

diamond in the back
07-10-04, 11:42 PM
I don't think a coupe or suv would or could be cadillac's flagship so the top spot is between the 05 STS and the next DTS.

CoupeDevilleRob
07-11-04, 01:13 PM
The current flagship is DeVille (including DHS and DTS), because it's the largest sedan among all Cadillac vehicles, as well as MB's S-classe and BMW's 7-series.
By your logic the Fleetwood Brougham would have been the flagship in the early 80's, but that title went to the Seville. The flagship usually isn't the biggest car or biggest seller. It is typically a niche vehicle, like the XLR, Corvette and GTO, and usually the most expensive.

But this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Pete03Z06
07-12-04, 09:27 PM
The flagship of the entire brand is indeed the XLR, as it should be. However, the flagship *sedan* of a brand is usually the largest, most gadget-laden or most powerful they offer. It seemed to me that the DeVille and Seville were so similar that there was no clear flagship sedan in past years. I think now the direct competitors to MB, BMW and Lexus are being shown more clearly.