Forum readers.

I have been impatiently waiting to get 6 speed 3.6l combo on the CTS. Based on a previous thread, this desire in not likely to be fulfilled anytime within the next three months.

Apparently, for whatever reason, Cadillac appears to continue to pushback the launch date. I need a new vehicle for business (ironically, in the Detroit metropolitan area) relatively quickly. Thus, I am curious about comments that you may have regarding the new Acura 3.2 or the Infinite G35. These two vehicles appear to be the closest to the CTS in terms of price/performance.

Specifically, I am most interested in feedback if you have had the chance for a test drive. I am planning to test drive them myself, the week after next when I return from my business trip.

Frustated in Detroit...
JoeKr

I would choose the Acura, you don't get the handling of rear drive like the G35 but Acura quality is much higher.

The Acura interior is also superior to the G35 in everyway. The G35 interior is cheap with the worst power seat contol location in the auto industry. The G35 plastic console looks spray painted with silver Rustoleum.

I agree. The Acura is a more complete package. Would have STRONGLY considered if the new tl was out when I was looking back in Aug '03. Oh well, I still love my CTS. :)

i hear the new acura TL has an AMAZING audio system. :)

if you're going to get a g35 i suggest that you wait a bit since they are expecting to get few updates to exterior as well as a power bump to 277hp/270lbft

http://nissannews.com/infiniti/news/products/20040603045431.shtml

TL = FWD = crap

stay with cadillac. i had cadillacs all my life i changed to a bmw 3 seriers. i traded in with 1000 miles on it for my cadillac cts i hated the bmw. very over rated car.I will never make that mistake again lol cadillac forver*

I like the new TL a lot. So much so that if it was a Rear-Wheel-Drive car, I would have bought it instead of the CTS-V. But it is a FWD car, and with all that power, it torque-steers pretty bad. But if you are not worried about that, then get the TL.

Forum readers.

I have been impatiently waiting to get 6 speed 3.6l combo on the CTS. Based on a previous thread, this desire in not likely to be fulfilled anytime within the next three months.

Apparently, for whatever reason, Cadillac appears to continue to pushback the launch date. I need a new vehicle for business (ironically, in the Detroit metropolitan area) relatively quickly. Thus, I am curious about comments that you may have regarding the new Acura 3.2 or the Infinite G35. These two vehicles appear to be the closest to the CTS in terms of price/performance.

Specifically, I am most interested in feedback if you have had the chance for a test drive. I am planning to test drive them myself, the week after next when I return from my business trip.

Frustated in Detroit...
JoeKr
IMHO, the 5 speed auto (especially in sport mode) CTS is BETTER than either of these two vehicles...

TL = FWD = craphttp://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/yeahthat.gif

I want to be clear....

The powertrain specified is what I want. Manual transmission only.

If I go to an automatic, then I could care less about the other stuff and might just as well get a 300C.

Then buy a V?

I want to be clear....

The powertrain specified is what I want. Manual transmission only.

If I go to an automatic, then I could care less about the other stuff and might just as well get a 300C.
get the g35 sedan. There is nothing better in its class in terms of value and performance. Sad to say this car is step above cts in terms of performance.

why not the G35 coupe? it still has a decent back seat.
Before chosing I'd surf around here, an Infiniti forum
http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB25
It's NOT my site or anything, I just came across it one day.
The G35 has a particular set of issues wrong with it.....I'd read all I could about it, see if you're willing to accept the shortcomings. And definitely wait til 05, new interior and more power.

TL = FWD = torque steer, plow, and all that other crap. No way.

Sad to say this car is step above cts in terms of performance.
ONLY in acceleration. It does not handle as well, and it's a very uncomfortable driving position...

why not the G35 coupe? it still has a decent back seat.
Before chosing I'd surf around here, an Infiniti forum
http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB25
It's NOT my site or anything, I just came across it one day.
The G35 has a particular set of issues wrong with it.....I'd read all I could about it, see if you're willing to accept the shortcomings. And definitely wait til 05, new interior and more power.

TL = FWD = torque steer, plow, and all that other crap. No way.Trunk space of the G35c is minute. And the seats, imo, were horrible. The controls to adjust them is embedded into the cushion, right near the drivers leg. Horrible design and I passed without a test drive. Sitting in it for 5 minutes sealed the deal... no thanks.

ONLY in acceleration. It does not handle as well, and it's a very uncomfortable driving position...
g35 handles better than cts. Every single reviews/ comparison will agree with my statement.

But it is a FWD car, and with all that power, it torque-steers pretty bad.

Torque steer is pretty much a thing of the past now with equal length driveshafts. Engineers have worked on this for years, but it's funny how a belief still persists. I testdrove the TL, LOVE it, and NO torque steer. However, my '80 Pontiac FWD coupe with a V6 torquesteers so bad that in the winter time you scare pedestrians at a green light! My 1991 FWD Fleetwood has virtually no torqusteer, and I would know being on the ice 6 months of the year. This is proof the engineers have done something right since the first real flood of FWD cars in 1980.

Torque steer is pretty much a thing of the past now with equal length driveshafts. Engineers have worked on this for years, but it's funny how a belief still persists. I testdrove the TL, LOVE it, and NO torque steer. However, my '80 Pontiac FWD coupe with a V6 torquesteers so bad that in the winter time you scare pedistrians at a green light! My 1991 FWD Fleetwood has virtually no torqusteer, and I would know being on the ice 6 months of the year. This is proof the engineers have done something right since the first real flood of FWD cars in 1980.
i think i've heard torque steering for the tl in one of the reviews. It might have been for the manual only.

Torque steer is pretty much a thing of the past now with equal length driveshafts. Engineers have worked on this for years, but it's funny how a belief still persists. I testdrove the TL, LOVE it, and NO torque steer. However, my '80 Pontiac FWD coupe with a V6 torquesteers so bad that in the winter time you scare pedistrians at a green light! My 1991 FWD Fleetwood has virtually no torqusteer, and I would know being on the ice 6 months of the year. This is proof the engineers have done something right since the first real flood of FWD cars in 1980.Read this
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=120&i=8061

Then read their review on the CTS, nothin but praise
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=144&i=8128

i think i've heard torque steering for the tl in one of the reviews. It might have been for the manual only.

I'll take a little TS to wheel hop anyday. ;) Any platform may have some issues, but with time, technology improves it, hopefully.

Read this
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=120&i=8061

Then read their review on the CTS, nothin but praise
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=144&i=8128

To be fair, any FWD vehicle will experience steering loss while breaking the tires loose. That's a given. However, here is an article that makes no mention of torquesteer, but it does agree with yours about lack of precision compared to RWD. Personally, I would probably never thrash a vehicle so hard where I would notice it. I drove it hard, but perhaps not that hard?

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?n=157,183&sid=183&article=6501

G35 and Rear Wheel Drive without a doubt! If Honda were to make RWD cars (other than the S2000) they could rule the world.

See www.rearwheeldrive.org (http://www.rearwheeldrive.org)

The TL is an amazing car. The new technolgy in it is awesome!

IMO, much better than the G35!

The TL is an amazing car. The new technolgy in it is awesome!

IMO, much better than the G35!
not true. G35 on fm platform with vq35 engine is an amazing piece of machine. Match that with one of the most advanced awd system and value and you have a definite winner.

Torque steer is pretty much a thing of the past now with equal length driveshafts. Engineers have worked on this for years, but it's funny how a belief still persists. I testdrove the TL, LOVE it, and NO torque steer. However, my '80 Pontiac FWD coupe with a V6 torquesteers so bad that in the winter time you scare pedestrians at a green light! My 1991 FWD Fleetwood has virtually no torqusteer, and I would know being on the ice 6 months of the year. This is proof the engineers have done something right since the first real flood of FWD cars in 1980.
well....my pretty new 2002 Volvo S60 is 246hp, FWD, and torque steers like a mother**. That's one reason why I'm dumping it. Whatever attempt Volvo made to reduce it failed. I can't imagine the TL being better. And I think a Motor Trend review a few months ago noted the TL torque steered.

check the G35 05 preview here
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/index.jsp?epi-content=GENERIC&newsId=20040603005645&newsLang=en&beanID=202776713&viewID=news_view

New interior shot here (56K beware)
http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=22873&vid=5

Sure the seat controls are still on the seat, but there are standard 19" wheels on the 6MT **DROOL**!! hehe

JoeKR, I feel your pain brother! I waited and waited for the 6sp CTS, saw published reports about its intro, got excited to finally buy a GM and then had my hopes SMASHED because of who knows what. Time to leave the altar and look for another Bride I guess.

Have you checked out the new Legacy GT? Quite a nice rig. Turbo boxer (250/250), AWD, very nice interior and an attractive price. I have even heard that the insurance is very reasonable due to the advanced, 5 star safety. Haven't driven one yet, but it is getting very favorable reviews and people are quite surprised that it is a Subaru.

TL = Wrong Wheel Drive. Torque steer is VERY present in the TL. The 275 ponies will yank the wheel in a nice dance, as the limited slip tries to sort things out. The G35 has superior performance over the total spectrum, especially if you do auto-x or track days.

I have narrowed my list down to either the GT or a G35.

Torque steer is pretty much a thing of the past now with equal length driveshafts. Engineers have worked on this for years, but it's funny how a belief still persists. I testdrove the TL, LOVE it, and NO torque steer. ...
The TL 6-Speed manual I test drove torque-steered really bad. I was actually fighting with the wheel to keep it straight.

well....my pretty new 2002 Volvo S60 is 246hp, FWD, and torque steers like a mother**. That's one reason why I'm dumping it. Whatever attempt Volvo made to reduce it failed. I can't imagine the TL being better. And I think a Motor Trend review a few months ago noted the TL torque steered.

I couldn't find that Motor Trend article, but I guess everyone can have a different experience, or a different perception of the torque steer phenomenon. It's a real shame you are getting rid of your S60 because of this problem. Those are good cars. Good enough in fact that when my cousin was parked on the shoulder of a highway, and got rear-ended by a semi, she was able to open the doors of her S60 and walk out! The truck driver had fallen asleep and was actually going about 50 mph!! If it wasn't a Volvo, she would probably be dead.

In any case, TS is something that can be learned or tolerated if it's not too bad, or if you don't do much winter driving IMO. Experience can overcome TS, and I actually have some fun with it in the winter months. I mean, who cares about a little TS, are you using the car for bank robbery get-aways or something??!! Then it becomes a factor, otherwise, who cares.

I've read somewhere that FWD is just as good as RWD until you travel around 130 mph or so, then there are some stability and handling issues because RWD makes for a better-balanced car. Personally, I could care less if I have either platform, and I've owned a couple of each. I don't plan to go that fast any time soon, and I'm willing to bet that other than the CTS-V owners here, not too many are that concerned about top-end.

The S60 is going away to make room for the CTS-V :D:D

July's Car and Driver has an editorial by Csaba Csere (how do you pronounce that anyway?) about FWD vs RWD. One point he mentions besides TS is the tendency of FWD cars to get twitchy with hard braking, following road imperfections and slopes. Add cornering to braking, and it's just too much for the front tires to deal with.

First, I'd like to thank everyone who posted a reply. The trade-off seems pretty apparent.

Acura TL - better creature comforts. Negative torque steer.
Infiniti G35 - Superior performance. Negative creature comforts.

ALso, thank you for the links. I haven't followed them all yet, but will do so.

Regards,
JoeKr

First, I'd like to thank everyone who posted a reply. The trade-off seems pretty apparent.

Acura TL - better creature comforts. Negative torque steer.
Infiniti G35 - Superior performance. Negative creature comforts.

ALso, thank you for the links. I haven't followed them all yet, but will do so.

Regards,
JoeKr
i don't know how much creature comfort g35 is going to fall behind tl considering the fact that they are being updated for 05. Also there has been few complaints regarding tl seats wearing out too quickly.

FRONT WHEEL DRIVE VS REAR WHEEL DRIVE

ANY RACE CAR DRIVER WILL TELL YOU THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO BE IN A POSITION OF TRYING TO STEER YOUR CAR WITH YOUR POWERED WHEELS.
WHEN THE POWER WHEEL ARE SPINNING YOU HAVE EFFECTIVELY LOST CONTROL OF YOUR STEERING.:bonkers:

LOOK AT THE HOT SPORTS CARS. THEY HAVE REAR DRIVE AND STEER WITH THE FRONTS. ABOUT THE ONLY ACCEPTION WOULD BE SOME 4 WHEEL DRIVE RACERS. TRYING TO STEER A FWD CAR IN SNOW IS A REAL EXPERIENCE IN VECTOR DRIVING:bonkers:

I want to be clear....

The powertrain specified is what I want. Manual transmission only.

If I go to an automatic, then I could care less about the other stuff and might just as well get a 300C.
Then you probably want to avoid the TL. Otherwise great car, but with the 6 speed, it turns into torque steer city. Read the Car and Driver review:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=7597&page_number=1

Well, if you feel you can't wait, I would go with the G35. More bang for the buck, excellent power. I would have bought one if it were not for the $1500 rebate and $4000 GM card credit for the CTS and that was off dealer invoice. The CTS seems roonier and the 3.6 has enough power.

why not the G35 coupe? it still has a decent back seat.
Before chosing I'd surf around here, an Infiniti forum
http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB25
It's NOT my site or anything, I just came across it one day.
The G35 has a particular set of issues wrong with it.....I'd read all I could about it, see if you're willing to accept the shortcomings. And definitely wait til 05, new interior and more power.

TL = FWD = torque steer, plow, and all that other crap. No way.

If I were going coupe in 05, this would be my choice.
http://motortrend.com/av/112_0104_det_mustang/

Hi.

I just took a test drive of a 2005 CTS with a VVT 3.6 and a 6 speed manual transmission. Very, very slick car. Considering the purchase after talking with my wife.

So forget about the Infiniti and the Acura and go get yourself the 6 speed CTS! It was the second one that the dealer had taken delivery of, so they're available!

Hi.

I just took a test drive of a 2005 CTS with a VVT 3.6 and a 6 speed manual transmission. Very, very slick car. Considering the purchase after talking with my wife.

So forget about the Infiniti and the Acura and go get yourself the 6 speed CTS! It was the second one that the dealer had taken delivery of, so they're available!Where did you find this car? I was told that these would not arrive at the dealers until August. Are you sure it was not a V?

Where did you find this car? I was told that these would not arrive at the dealers until August. Are you sure it was not a V?

It was at a Caddy dealer in South Oakland, CA. Sorry, I do not remember the name. Definately not a V because it was only $34K and there were about 150 horses missing. Very nice car. Dealer said he just got those two in.

So forget about the Infiniti and the Acura and go get yourself the 6 speed CTS! It was the second one that the dealer had taken delivery of, so they're available!
Well, a miracle has occured!

First let me clarify, deffinitely, that the 6 speed is NOT yet being produced for retail production.

Second, the plant reports that it has not manufactured a single CTS with an MV1 6 speed yet. They report they have not received initial shipments from AISIN yet!

What Crozier could do if he/she was so inclined, would be to obtain the VIN number for me.

It is theoretically possible that a pre-production unit was diverted to select dealerships (usually big dealers) for test market, but it certainly was not a normal production vehicle. The VIN number would provide a solution to the mystery.

Maybe it was a 5 speed 3.2L?

That would be an honest mistake...