: GM is about to miss the boat... Again



c5racr1
08-21-08, 07:23 PM
I am in the mood for a new car. with that said I am selling my 04 v with a LS7 505 hp crate motor. now I want another V, the new V, but guess what GM in their wisdom is keeping all the important stuff under wraps. like price, estimated delivery dates, kinda like they did with the camaro. when the market was hot and gas was cheaper what did GM do, take damn near 4 years to develop a car on an existing platform! Maby they should have turned the whole GM performance division over to holden, they seem to have their act together.
I hate the way GM treats their customers, kinda like they are doing me a favor by selling and serviceing a car. well I have been pissed about this for some time and may take my business elsewhere, they may think they are the only game in town but the market says otherwise. They wont even release pricing on the damn thing, what the hell is the big secret? is it free, probably not, is metainance included? knowing gm and the most (not all) of their suck a$$ stealerships nope, but MB and BMW can go from the board to the floor in 1 to 2 years? and GM wants to figure out why it is giving money away? let me answer that for ya, cause you aint got $hit we want, you take to long, I want it when I want it, not when U want to do me the favor by selling it!
I was at road atlanta last year and the caddy rep said I would be in a new v by car by august. well I should have asked him August of what year! enough of my rant. I think this may have been the straw!

lawfive
08-21-08, 07:51 PM
I was in a new V last month. For a little while.

The Tony Show
08-21-08, 08:13 PM
Presented with the choice of a half baked product released quickly or a well engineered and world beating product released a few months later than I'd prefer, I'll take the latter. I suspect that people running a company working hard to try and rebuild their once great reputation would agree with me.

c5racr1
08-21-08, 09:22 PM
I agree but why does GM take so long to come to market with a product. I wouldnt consider a C63, RS4, M3, M5, m6 and a list of other "foregin made cars half baked. I would consider the problems with the V1 half baked, and GM's lack of willingness to stand behind their product worse. If you are well were the largest auto manufacture in the world is it too much to ask for to have the same 18 month concept most other"lesser" makers have. How long did we see the SSR truck beforthey came to market= market was gone as will the big market they would have had if they could have gotten their act together on the camaro. I guess they need a lesson from toyota in the term "over engener" that is the problem. If they would build it to last in sted of last right now it wouldnt take 4 years.

lawfive
08-21-08, 10:21 PM
I suggest that if you're truly unhappy you should take your business to Toyota and help GM get what they deserve.

As for me... I'm sure GM wishes that they could cut their product development cycle, but they haven't. It is what it is, and it won't do me any good to rant about it. Besides, do I NEED or even WANT a new car every 18 months? No. Next...

GM has stood behind their product and their warranty with me. I'm happy as a clam with the service I've received. Next...

If I need them to "build it to last" then why do I also need them to come up with a new one every 18 months? Or vice-versa? :hmm: Next...

Sorry, but I'm just sick and tired of the negative posts on this forum. I love my car. :cloud9:

Next?

RightTurn
08-21-08, 10:24 PM
:food-snacking:

lawfive
08-21-08, 10:47 PM
:food-snacking:
:food-snacking:

v84life
08-22-08, 12:11 AM
I love my car too:cloud9:

thebigjimsho
08-22-08, 12:20 AM
No offense, but it sounds like GM just didn't kowtow to your timetable. So someone from GM told you August and now it's October/November?

I don't remember anyone from GM saying definitely by this summer. They just showed the car for the first time 7 months ago. As for pricing, there is no denying that this economy demands a careful strategy. If they are waiting to get closer to launch to announce pricing so that they don't misgauge the market, kudos to them.

Jpjr
08-22-08, 10:26 AM
No offense, but it sounds like GM just didn't kowtow to your timetable. So someone from GM told you August and now it's October/November?

I don't remember anyone from GM saying definitely by this summer. They just showed the car for the first time 7 months ago. As for pricing, there is no denying that this economy demands a careful strategy. If they are waiting to get closer to launch to announce pricing so that they don't misgauge the market, kudos to them.

although in theory i agree with what you are writing, i also agree with the thread starter in that the customer is always right. gm's sales have been plummeting over the years relative to many of their competitors. we can defend GM, but people speak with their wallets end of story. the "entitlement" culture that had crippled american car companies is mostly gone (as are a crapload of jobs), but still not completely gone.

gm's biggest problem (in my opinion) continues to be the total ownership experience and not the cars themselves. the vehicles are vastly improved and many of them are world beaters. customer and vehicle service is generally the problem.

RightTurn
08-22-08, 10:48 AM
gm's biggest problem (in my opinion) continues to be the total ownership experience and not the cars themselves. the vehicles are vastly improved and many of them are world beaters. customer and vehicle service is generally the problem.

:yeah: In my experience that is absolutely true, although I also believe GM and other American car makers still have a ways to go in the build quality department.

To the OP, if you can't wait on V2 then by all means buy something else. Obviously the "caddy rep" you talked to last year was mistaken about the release date.

thebigjimsho
08-22-08, 10:50 AM
There is a reason that it takes ___ long to get a car to market, especially one like the new V. And I don't think it's for "mystique".

And personally, I don't want Cadillac rushing out a car that still needs bugs worked out in '10 when I get mine...

Lord Cadillac
08-22-08, 11:08 AM
I agree but why does GM take so long to come to market with a product.

For the best answer..... GM is broke.. That is why. Yes, it sucks. But what can ya do? When the new CTS-V does make it to showrooms, it's going to be a very impressive car. Better late than never.. Sometimes reality blows.

Lord Cadillac
08-22-08, 11:10 AM
:yeah: In my experience, that is absolutely true, although I also believe GM and other American car makers still have a ways to go in the build quality department.

Another issue that exists because of money. Hopefully GM pulls out of their financial mess soon..

Cadillac Tony
08-22-08, 11:23 AM
GM build quality went to crap during the height of their sales- money has nothing to do with it. It was a mix of arrogance and trying to increase their already huge profits by cutting costs in worst possible place (the product). In the end, their market share took a beating.

The arrogance is gone, replaced by the mentality of a former champ getting lean for a title fight rematch. Costs are being cut in the right places this time, and GM is getting lean and mean for the big fight. Cars like the Malibu, CTS and V, Enclave, Volt and Cruze are already putting GM back in the magazines and Internet in a good way. Just as the company didn't go to hell overnight, it cannot reclaim its former glory overnight either. Improving product is the first important step- I'm sure that steps are being taken to address other ares of opportunity as well.

RightTurn
08-22-08, 11:41 AM
My boss comes from a "GM employee" family. Her uncle currently has some some sort of GM product development role, and my boss was a test driver for one of the GM development facilities while in college. I love her stories...but I digress. We were discussing the GM situation yesterday over lunch. In a recent conversation with her uncle he told her that the Volt is a LONG way off..they actually have no idea how to make it work. Can that be possible???? :gah:

LV_V
08-22-08, 01:55 PM
they actually have no idea how to make it work

No offense, but he sounds like an idiot.

Lord Cadillac
08-22-08, 02:17 PM
There are still questions in regards to how the Volt is going to work. And anyone who thinks money isn't an issue for GM (and Cadillac) needs to think again.

Brett
08-22-08, 02:42 PM
My boss comes from a "GM employee" family. Her uncle currently has some some sort of GM product development role, and my boss was a test driver for one of the GM development facilities while in college. I love her stories...but I digress. We were discussing the GM situation yesterday over lunch. In a recent conversation with her uncle he told her that the Volt is a LONG way off..they actually have no idea how to make it work. Can that be possible???? :gah:


The one thing that GM is really sweating is the batteries. Technically the technology needed to accomplish what they want to do does not yet exist in a production capable form, but it is close. A quantum leap in technology is not required, but a few small leaps in the next couple years will be.

CIWS
08-22-08, 03:01 PM
A quantum leap in technology is not required, but a few small leaps in the next couple years will be.

Well thank goodness 2008 was a Leap Year. :D





:hide:

Brett
08-22-08, 03:04 PM
Hopefully they used that extra day to their benefit. :o

thebigjimsho
08-22-08, 03:22 PM
The batteries are going to be a problem for everyone. It's always look at what's being done here and there. It's look at what this technology can do. Most of the time it's the dumb public's demand for gasoline powered cars. And how because of that all these wonderful technologies are ignored.

What the problem is is that the technology isn't feasible yet. Hybrids are great but they're a status symbol. There are few that you get the return of savings in less fuel used because of their exorbitant costs. As for hydrogen, Honda is leasing the FCX Clarity to people around Los Angeles. Why? Because that's where the holier than thou actors will prance around in them and denounce the public for continuing to drive gas guzzlers...even though it takes far more energy to produce that hydrogen than it does to make gasoline.

Way too much of today's society is force fed misinformation on energy(like that's any surprise).

c5racr1
08-22-08, 04:53 PM
while I totally agree with yall to apoint I used toyota as an example, if you over engeneer the product form the start, you will not have the problems GM has been having with their perdormance cars. for an example If any one on the boardowned an F-body they can tell you horror stories of the rear diffs breaking, sound famuliar? I am ranting that GM needs to have these cars in the market place./ If you get time go to GM europe and holden website, those vehicles would be a absloute hit here, but what do we get? what GM thinks we deserve. who ever does their market research should be taken out back. opel had a gm version of the scion a LONG time ago, it just didne come here, Holden had a version of a lot of nice stuff but it didnt come here. yall can say what ya want about not rushing a vehicle to market, but when you take way to long to develop the vehicle, there will be no markt, so now you really have wasted a lot of money. once again I point to the SSR truck that was a total hit at all the auto shows but after taking 3 years to get it out, and by the way it too was built on an existing platform just like the new V and the camaro the market was gone, you can ask what ever you want for a vehicle but if the buyer aint motivated or passionate about it you aint going to get it. As far as the v goes 551 hp is a great number and the ring time is great but they put it out way before the vehicle and guess what by the time the vehicle gets out it will be old news, and the time will be elapsed by some other vehicle, records are made to be broken. BMW is already tooling a TT m5 v10 to beat that time. yes it will cost more but it will be avalable. I thisnk GM's favorate bed time story is the emperor's new cloths. Hey I loved my V1 when I first got it but that was 4 years ago, I am ready for something new- to spend money- and all GM has to offer me is some youtube $hit and some pictures. Yes some people have driven the new cars and say it is great, but some people have dirven F1 cars and said they are great, its still abstract to me. " they wonder what the market can handle as far as money and pricing goes, put the damn car out there. in the imortal words of crrol shelby " if the car is good the name wont matter" if the v is what they say it is and we dont know price it in the middle of the market it will sell. unless the market has gone cold CAUSE YOU TOOK TO LONG!

Silverspeed
08-22-08, 05:10 PM
I agree with the OP. GM is just flat out RIDICULOUS when it comes to these matters. Let's take the new Camaro. How f*cking long can it POSSIBLY take to bring a car to the market? I saw pics of that car 5 years ago. They should be EMBARRASSED. The Dodge Challenger wasn't even a thought in someones head when I saw the first prototype Camaro, yet I can buy a Challenger RIGHT NOW. I STILL can't buy the Camaro till February of NEXT year. Are they freaking kidding? They can obviously build the new V right now. The've already built 20 something of them, yet the salable production won't start until October??? Give me a freaking break. I can honestly say I am NOT suprised. Why in the f*ck can they not release initial pricing with a disclaimer that it may go up or down by 3-5%? Why? We don't even know if it will be 55K or 75K. It's just bad decision after bad decision.

The Tony Show
08-22-08, 05:42 PM
American Heritage Dictionary -

par∑a∑graph (pār'ə-grāf') n.

1. A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new, usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically deals with a single thought or topic or quotes one speaker's continuous words.

Lord Cadillac
08-22-08, 05:47 PM
Everybody knows it's ridiculous. Some just wont admit it. That's all.


I agree with the OP. GM is just flat out RIDICULOUS when it comes to these matters. Let's take the new Camaro. How F!ing long can it POSSIBLY take to bring a car to the market? I saw pics of that car 5 years ago. They should be EMBARRASSED. The Dodge Challenger wasn't even a thought in someones head when I saw the first prototype Camaro, yet I can buy a Challenger RIGHT NOW. I STILL can't buy the Camaro till February of NEXT year. Are they freaking kidding? They can obviously build the new V right now. The've already built 20 something of them, yet the salable production won't start until October??? Give me a freaking break. I can honestly say I am NOT suprised. Why in the F! can they not release initial pricing with a disclaimer that it may go up or down by 3-5%? Why? We don't even know if it will be 55K or 75K. It's just bad decision after bad decision.

The Tony Show
08-22-08, 05:52 PM
GM is caught in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation. They pissed away the American public's trust by rushing badge engineered junk to Dealerships 6 months after someone thought it up (Let's put a Cadillac emblem on a Cavalier! Brilliant! Thank you!) and everyone got mad. Now they're taking their time and doing it right before releasing it, and now that makes everyone mad.

Perhaps GM's problem is showing prototypes too soon? Or perhaps it's because America is crawling with spy photographers that "out" The Big 3's mules sooner than in Germany and Japan, where foreign companies are able to do their testing in a less conspicuous are?

Could it be that rival companies take just as long (or longer) to develop a product, but they keep things top secret until it's closer to completion? Just a thought.

Lord Cadillac
08-22-08, 05:59 PM
It wasn't only rushing that caused the American public to run in all other directions. But that was probably part of the problem.

GM probably IS showing prototypes too soon. And, spy photographers probably are messing things up. Other makes probably are being more secretive about what's going on within the organization.

All that being said, GM is definitely slow. The Camaro is taking forever. The performance advantage of a CTS-V over a BMW M5 (which is going to be a big reason that MANY people buy the CTS-V over the M5) is a limited time deal. These days, an auto manufacturer "ups the ante" with each model update.

People are going to buy the CTS-V because it's better than the M5. It's only a matter of time before BMW starts talking about their new CTS-V killer. The sooner the V gets on the road, the better. Nobody wants Cadillac to rush it. But apparently, many people feel it should have been ready by now. Just like the Camaro - which is still a year away....


GM is caught in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation. They pissed away the American public's trust by rushing badge engineered junk to Dealerships 6 months after someone thought it up (Let's put a Cadillac emblem on a Cavalier! Brilliant! Thank you!) and everyone got mad. Now they're taking their time and doing it right before releasing it, and now that makes everyone mad.

Perhaps GM's problem is showing prototypes too soon? Or perhaps it's because America is crawling with spy photographers that "out" The Big 3's mules sooner than in Germany and Japan, where foreign companies are able to do their testing in a less conspicuous are?

Could it be that rival companies take just as long (or longer) to develop a product, but they keep things top secret until it's closer to completion? Just a thought.

gothicaleigh
08-22-08, 08:11 PM
The Dodge Challenger wasn't even a thought in someones head when I saw the first prototype Camaro, yet I can buy a Challenger RIGHT NOW.

The Challenger is honestly a bad example to use. It's nearly 4 year (yes, it was originally shown in early 2005) concept to production time is hardly groundbreaking.

...and what did 4 years of design 'refinement' net Chrysler?
A wallowy pig of a car with the exact same driveline as every other SRT they have produced and worse body gaps than the original 70s Challenger.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/oosa_hagar/Misc/srt8-fail.jpg




If GM wants to take their time polishing the Camaro and V, I say let them.

Jpjr
08-22-08, 08:15 PM
Regarding rollout timing, GM (and Ford) have experts that actually know what they are doing in my opinion. Two examples:

1) Ford delayed the launch of their 2009 F-150 for specific reasons.

2) GM accelerated the launch of their 2007 GMT pickup for specific reasons.

The V is essentially done. I have a strong feeling they have decided that it makes no sense to launch until they have cleared out most of the 2008 inventory (all cars) at dealerships. Not that launching it early would be bad for V sales, it just won't help them in sales overall.

lawfive
08-22-08, 11:17 PM
American Heritage Dictionary -

par∑a∑graph (pār'ə-grāf') n.

1. A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new, usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically deals with a single thought or topic or quotes one speaker's continuous words.

:lol: @ TTS

c5racr1
08-23-08, 10:46 AM
thought this was a fourm< didnt know we were being graded> hey lets get off the subject and talk about paragraphs and sentence structure insted of what the topic was? why dont you start an english fourm and see how many bites you get. I have something to say, i freaking say it.

LITTLEELVISDAN
08-23-08, 10:58 AM
easy peasy lemon squeezy.. all in good fun. ^^^

c5racr1
08-23-08, 11:07 AM
you are right... im a little uptite :)

The Tony Show
08-23-08, 11:10 AM
I have something to say, i freaking say it.

if the reader cant comprehend what youre saying because its a gigantic runon sentence with random LARGE WORDS thrown in i suppose for EMPHASIS and lots of gratuitous punctutation!!!!!!?????? that the human brain has a hard time deciphering then its difficult for the reader to determine what it is exactly that youre trying to get across especially when the subject of your rant changes every few lines from one thing to another.Its the type of thing that people normally just scroll right past since it gives them a HEADACHE!!!!! to try and read and basically looks like it was written by a pissed off teenager on myspace and not an adult car enthusiast with the purchasing power to buy a $70k automobile??????.This of course is just my opinion and perhaps the average person will take the time to slowly read an entire post like this and determine its actual meaning but I will not not.

RightTurn
08-23-08, 12:40 PM
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z117/sarahw422/sarcasm.jpg

urbanski
08-23-08, 01:37 PM
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o46/natalya_dostova/Funnies/469758086_051b1dd752.jpg

urbanski
08-23-08, 01:38 PM
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/chbassist/hitler-rede.jpg

heavymetals
08-23-08, 02:05 PM
Guy gets into a cab in Boston and asks the driver," Hey do you know of a really good place where I can get scrod?"

The cabbie turns and replies," That is the first time I have heard that term used in the pluperfect subjective".

:histeric:

RightTurn
08-23-08, 03:14 PM
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z117/sarahw422/grammar.jpg

Jono
08-23-08, 03:16 PM
GM is in a canít win situation. I mean think about the 01 Z06 owners. They bought into the hype about 385 hp and it being the best Corvette ever line. And on paper and on the street it was. 02 They mad it better and easier to get, thanks GM for screwing the 01 guys. Next case, there was no F Body to compete with the Mustang. So GM threw the GTO together gave it name that would give it some history and sold it o the public. Well 05 came around and they quit production on the LS1 and started using the LS2 which makes around 50 more hp. If would have bought ether one of those model year cars I would have been hot. I donít understand the thought behind marketing like that. I mean they knew they were going to drop the LS1 in 04, why did they put it in the GTO for a one year offer. I like GM I really do but most of the time I think my dumb @$$ could do a better job. Or at least I couldnít do worse.

urbanski
08-23-08, 03:24 PM
yeah and why the HELL did GM soil the automotive scene with the 04-05 CTS-V? I mean leftover LS6s FFS. ACK. damn GM screwing us.

Jono
08-23-08, 03:34 PM
yeah and why the HELL did GM soil the automotive scene with the 04-05 CTS-V? I mean leftover LS6s FFS. ACK. damn GM screwing us.

At least the power is the same. How made would we be if the 06 and 07ís where LS7ís. :want:
How cool would it be if GM were to take 10 owners that owned the current production model (in are case it would be the V1) and get there input on what could make the next generation car better. I mean if you took 10 of us from the board and we all gave are dislikes about are Vís and what would have made it better how bad @$$ would the V2 be?

heavymetals
08-23-08, 04:23 PM
You don't remember but there was a conference call with the 04/05 owners that accomplished nothing, ableit not for them anyways.

It might of had some influence on the 09 design, but it only helps if you want to trade up.

The Tony Show
08-23-08, 04:53 PM
yeah and why the HELL did GM soil the automotive scene with the 04-05 CTS-V? I mean leftover LS6s FFS. ACK. damn GM screwing us.

Haha

RightTurn
08-23-08, 07:17 PM
How cool would it be if GM were to take 10 owners that owned the current production model (in are case it would be the V1) and get there input on what could make the next generation car better. I mean if you took 10 of us from the board and we all gave are dislikes about are Vís and what would have made it better how bad @$$ would the V2 be?

I would be VERY surprised to find that GM doesn't monitor every single automotive forum on the internet. If they aren't then shame on 'em. This place alone is a goldmine for information from "real" owners.

c5racr1
08-23-08, 07:34 PM
dude, easy answer if it is not important to you read something else. I didnt know i had to organize my rant. I wouldn't want you to get you panties twisted but on the other hand seems like you understood the statement.

on another level i think if im the one spending the 70 grand == who cares how my sentences and paragraphes are on a forum. I will not cry if you read something else. I though it was all in good fun, but I guess it's not. I bet you have owned at least 1 BMW in your life.

c5racr1
08-23-08, 07:35 PM
wow I now know who are the ZVP choices on both sides.... and GM still has not released ball park prices... MB here i come :)

The Tony Show
08-23-08, 08:00 PM
So you'll buy an inferior and overpriced product and suffer the stoplight losses and knowledge that you paid too much for a car because you can't wait 60 days?

Alrighty then.

c5racr1
08-23-08, 08:25 PM
60 days for what pricing or a vehicle? If GM can play with BMW on road and track, I don't see why the vehicle is not for sale. do you?

LV_V
08-23-08, 09:03 PM
If GM can play with BMW on road and track, I don't see why the vehicle is not for sale. do you?

They are creating hype for the launch of the vehicle. IMO its going to need all the hype it can get if it is to be successful in this market at $70,000. If you don't want to wait, then go enjoy a new C63; don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out of the forum :D

RightTurn
08-23-08, 09:37 PM
:yeah:

The Tony Show
08-23-08, 09:45 PM
60 days for what pricing or a vehicle? If GM can play with BMW on road and track, I don't see why the vehicle is not for sale. do you?

So they don't pull a repeat of the Sky and have 1 car a month to sell, and by the time inventory is available all the interest has died down?

Don't forget that GM has only been "hyping" the car since January when they revealed it at NAIAS. Everything before that was Internet speculation and spy photos. The car will be on the market in less than 12 months from its public reveal. Where's the beef?

Jpjr
08-23-08, 09:53 PM
So they don't pull a repeat of the Sky and have 1 car a month to sell, and by the time inventory is available all the interest has died down?

Don't forget that GM has only been "hyping" the car since January when they revealed it at NAIAS. Everything before that was Internet speculation and spy photos. The car will be on the market in less than 12 months from its public reveal. Where's the beef?


I personally think that anyone after a V2 in 2008 that is willing to pay MSRP or more will get one. I was willing to pay well over MSRP for the Solstice GXP in 2006, was #1 on a dealer list, and still couldn't get an allocation for 5 months after production started.

The Tony Show
08-23-08, 10:18 PM
My point exactly.

They hyped and released the Solstice and Sky before they were able to even build the things at a reliable rate, and they're not going to repeat the same mistake with the CTS-V.

JEM
08-23-08, 11:59 PM
They hyped and released the Solstice and Sky before they were able to even build the things at a reliable rate, and they're not going to repeat the same mistake with the CTS-V.

So why is it that GM would have such trouble ramping up production on something that's going to be built in limited numbers anyway?

For those who think that GM's the only one that releases half-baked product, or product with teething problems - I'll remind you that the early E46 M3's and S54-motor M Coupes had crank-breakage problems and the SMG was an acquired taste at best, the E60 M5's SMG has had numerous software fixes and the 6-speed three-pedal version's a bodge, the C5 RS6's DRC suspension has been an absolute "thou shalt not own this car out of warranty" item, etc. It's all about how the manufacturer and the dealer handles the situation when things fall apart.

Oh, and yeah, Toyota seems to have spread half of the year's IS-F production around as VIP cars for the Monterey Historics. Finally got a look at one. Yeah, those exhausts in the rear fascia are little fake rings. I'm sorry, it doesn't matter how good the car is (or not), that's just tacky.

Obligatory GT-R comment: it's not as ugly as I expected, but it's still not anything that tickles my 'nads, and it's still two doors short.

Flavoade
08-24-08, 12:20 AM
Sounds like OP got messed over to many times at Duplesis?

Jesda
08-24-08, 08:14 AM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/food-snacking.gif

Jpjr
08-24-08, 12:37 PM
My point exactly.

They hyped and released the Solstice and Sky before they were able to even build the things at a reliable rate, and they're not going to repeat the same mistake with the CTS-V.

Actually, I disagree. They are doing the same thing with the V2, but there simply isn't nearly as high demand for a $75k car in quantity as there is a $30k car.

The Challenger was literally sold out of 2008 production the first day Chrysler started accepting orders. A lot of people will be waiting a long time for their Challenger, similar to the GXP and Redline in 2006.

The Tony Show
08-24-08, 01:45 PM
Actually, I disagree. They are doing the same thing with the V2, but there simply isn't nearly as high demand for a $75k car in quantity as there is a $30k car.

The Challenger was literally sold out of 2008 production the first day Chrysler started accepting orders. A lot of people will be waiting a long time for their Challenger, similar to the GXP and Redline in 2006.

Sold out? I know that's what Dodge's marketing department wants everyone to believe, but it's not the truth according to Cars.com (http://www.cars.com/go/search/search_results.jsp?ct=1014&tracktype=newcc&searchType=22&cid=&dlid=&dgid=&amid=&cname=&rd=&ddrd=30&zc=34788&makeid=12&modelid=510&pageNumber=&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE%20descending,DISTANCE%20ascending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-|E-|M-_12_|H-|D-_510_|N-Y|R-10000|I-1,7|P-PRICE%20descending,DISTANCE%20ascending|Q-descending|Z-34788&aff=national)

lawfive
08-24-08, 07:42 PM
Damn, I missed grammar day. You snooze, you lose.


Guy gets into a cab in Boston and asks the driver," Hey do you know of a really good place where I can get scrod?"

The cabbie turns and replies," That is the first time I have heard that term used in the pluperfect subjective".

:histeric:

I presume the cabbie actually meant "pluperfect subjunctive" or "past-perfect subjunctive." This actually requires his fare to have been speaking of a hypothetically counterfactual situation that might have occurred in the past, but did not. Clearly that does not apply in this case.

A better example would be if after picking up the patron from the seafood restaurant, the fare had said, "Your tip would have been bigger had you taken me to a place where I could have gotten screwed."









Wait... that's not funny.

lawfive
08-24-08, 07:49 PM
Sold out? I know that's what Dodge's marketing department wants everyone to believe, but it's not the truth according to Cars.com (http://www.cars.com/go/search/search_results.jsp?ct=1014&tracktype=newcc&searchType=22&cid=&dlid=&dgid=&amid=&cname=&rd=&ddrd=30&zc=34788&makeid=12&modelid=510&pageNumber=&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE%20descending,DISTANCE%20ascending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-|E-|M-_12_|H-|D-_510_|N-Y|R-10000|I-1,7|P-PRICE%20descending,DISTANCE%20ascending|Q-descending|Z-34788&aff=national)

I hope those yo yo's get exactly the the premium over sticker that they deserve, namely negative dollars.

LITTLEELVISDAN
08-24-08, 09:00 PM
Saw 2 new challengers SRT8's at Gwinnett place Dodge. black and an orange one. they weregone the next day. now 1 is sitting on the used car lot of the MB dealer down the road.

Flavoade
08-24-08, 11:06 PM
To OP.

I cannot send PM's yet, but I want to know how much you want for your V?

c5racr1
08-25-08, 01:58 PM
selling my v also [email removed by admin] for details

edit: Believe me - you don't want your email on public message boards... In any event, try our classifieds to sell your car...